All I'm saying is, I didn't see anything spectacularly good about this performance than what he's produced for us that's getting people to talk about him 'marturing' this tournament or expecting to see to see a different Pogba next season. I just hope he'll look better with the midfielders we bought but people thinking his performances for France this world cup has been so much better than some of his good performances for us and talking about how its us that make him shit are just seeing what they want to see.
Will we see a new mature Pogba in the new season?
- Thread starter golden_blunder
- Start date
I'd still expect him to kick up a fuss if asked to perform a more disciplined defensive role for us.
with matic and fred, he should be allowed to be the midfielder with more freedom. Mourinho needs to bring the best out of him
He might, but he'll most likely be too tired from the WC, United's spoilt and glory hunting fans shouldn't expect anything from till the middle of the 2019/2020 season when he'd have fully recovered, obviously. Or they can feck off and go support City.
Also, the pitch at most of the stadiums in Russia suit him better unlike those in the Premier League.
Also, the pitch at most of the stadiums in Russia suit him better unlike those in the Premier League.
I’m not sure about “maturity”. I think people mix “culture” up with “immaturity” at times when it comes to Pogba (and Lingard). Being clean cut, tee-total, exuberant extroverts who engage publically in completely harmless acts of fun, they obviously get called out for it whereas drinking 8 pints and driving a foul bint home in her own car to avoid the paparazzi is a sign of great maturity and an act that legends of this club should be immune to criticism for.
I’m hoping that this fills him with confidence and relieves some of the weight off his shoulders so he’s able to play the game as it naturally comes to him.
I’m hoping that this fills him with confidence and relieves some of the weight off his shoulders so he’s able to play the game as it naturally comes to him.
Depends how we use him and the team tactics overall. Given we've bought Fred my guess is he'll be somewhere between last season and this world cup. A bit better than last season in a United shirt but not as good as hes been for France
I mostly agree but that's very different to what you said. You said he was wank.
In any case, we're talking about the World Cup final here. This is only the 20th one in football history, and by many people's estimation he was MOTM in it - that's not something to dismiss so easily. Particularly given Pogba was so subdued in the CL final and the Euro final. If we look at the trend in WhoScored ratings - which we can agree is a flawed measure, but at least it's a constant measure - the story is quite clear.
14/15 UCL final - 6.4 / 3rd worst player on the pitch
2016 Euro final - 7.0 / 10th worst player on the pitch
2018 WC final - 8.4 / best player on the pitch
So he went from poor to average to excellent over these last three years, in the 3 biggest moments of his career. You might want to quibble over the definition of excellent but you won't find any evidence to support the idea he was wank, by any stretch. If he can do it on this stage he can do it on any stage - and that's not something you can say about just any player. He's clearly a very special player.
Fair enough,I y just don't feel he played particularly well today. It I think he'll be the same player we had last season. Patches of brilliance and with lots of moments of frustration
One can hope so. I personally doubt it but I hope to be proven wrong.
I don't think Pogba was particularly immature this season, barring the avoidable red card at the Emirates which meant he missed the derby I don't think he made any glaring mistakes.
What he has lacked has been the system and quality players around him to make the same use of his abilities. For example look at France: When you've got Kante beside you in midfield, a cohesive and reliable defence and the likes Mbappe and Greizmann in front Pogba is allowed the time, space and options to make a world class impact more consistently.
Look at the Juve squad he was part of, world class defence, playing alongside the likes of Pirlo and Vidal in midfield and tireless runners like Tevez infront of him.
Its also not like he doesn't do the same things for France that get him massively criticised in a United shirt e.g. literally walking around the field at times and throwing tantrums when he loses the ball instead of pressing to recover. He did both of these this tournament for France. The difference is that the system and players around him have allowed him to make the utterly world class passes more often, allowed him space to run with the ball more often and left him much less exposed and alone in games.
He was better at defensive duties and seemed to work harder for this France team than he has for us at times. However I don't necessarily think its a maturity issue but a morale issue. Imagine being a player with his vision and passing range and playing in a team that doesn't move off the ball. Imagine always running into multiple defending players when you run with the ball because noone makes runs that drag them away. Imagine being a world class game changing attacking midfielder who has to consistently receive the ball way inside his own half because the defence can't pass it out of the back. Finally imagine that despite these deficiencies in the team around you, that you are the player who comes in for all the criticism. Its no wonder that at times he looks defeated and not totally up for it. In his shoes I'd be struggling too.
Compare him to KDB, who is being heralded as a player who is leagues ahead of him. When it comes down to it, KDB isn't leagues ahead in talent and ability, hell you could argue Pogba is better ability wise. KDB in his crowning season has played for a team whose off the ball movement is astonishingly good. A team with a more cohesive defensive unit, wingbacks who create width, midfielders who release him from most defensive responsibility and world class talent ahead of him. If you watched him play for Belgium in a less advanced role in the earlier World cup games you got to see him looking sullen and ineffective. Remind you of anyone?
TLDR: Pogba isn't immature, he is just being utterly wasted by United. As shown by Juve and France he can shine with better players and systems.
What he has lacked has been the system and quality players around him to make the same use of his abilities. For example look at France: When you've got Kante beside you in midfield, a cohesive and reliable defence and the likes Mbappe and Greizmann in front Pogba is allowed the time, space and options to make a world class impact more consistently.
Look at the Juve squad he was part of, world class defence, playing alongside the likes of Pirlo and Vidal in midfield and tireless runners like Tevez infront of him.
Its also not like he doesn't do the same things for France that get him massively criticised in a United shirt e.g. literally walking around the field at times and throwing tantrums when he loses the ball instead of pressing to recover. He did both of these this tournament for France. The difference is that the system and players around him have allowed him to make the utterly world class passes more often, allowed him space to run with the ball more often and left him much less exposed and alone in games.
He was better at defensive duties and seemed to work harder for this France team than he has for us at times. However I don't necessarily think its a maturity issue but a morale issue. Imagine being a player with his vision and passing range and playing in a team that doesn't move off the ball. Imagine always running into multiple defending players when you run with the ball because noone makes runs that drag them away. Imagine being a world class game changing attacking midfielder who has to consistently receive the ball way inside his own half because the defence can't pass it out of the back. Finally imagine that despite these deficiencies in the team around you, that you are the player who comes in for all the criticism. Its no wonder that at times he looks defeated and not totally up for it. In his shoes I'd be struggling too.
Compare him to KDB, who is being heralded as a player who is leagues ahead of him. When it comes down to it, KDB isn't leagues ahead in talent and ability, hell you could argue Pogba is better ability wise. KDB in his crowning season has played for a team whose off the ball movement is astonishingly good. A team with a more cohesive defensive unit, wingbacks who create width, midfielders who release him from most defensive responsibility and world class talent ahead of him. If you watched him play for Belgium in a less advanced role in the earlier World cup games you got to see him looking sullen and ineffective. Remind you of anyone?
TLDR: Pogba isn't immature, he is just being utterly wasted by United. As shown by Juve and France he can shine with better players and systems.
Anyone else find the comparisons. Between Fred and Kante weird? If anything Fred is a bit more of a Matuidi type. Which really Herrera is quite good at the ye old defensive stuff and we know he can pick a pass, so although I hope Fred will transform the midfield let us get the best out of Pogba I’m just not entirely convinced it’s just down to who has backed Pogba up at this World Cup.
Pogba just seemed to find a good balance within himself of doing defensive work getting forward and also just playing the passes we know he can. It seems like there was more to it than just Kante and Matuidi. Hopefully Fred’s athletic attributes and how he gets about the pitch helps tho.
Pogba just seemed to find a good balance within himself of doing defensive work getting forward and also just playing the passes we know he can. It seems like there was more to it than just Kante and Matuidi. Hopefully Fred’s athletic attributes and how he gets about the pitch helps tho.
Hope so , but it won’t stop the social media/ Hair police have a go, as soon as he tries one extravagant move too many.....
Hopefully that's something that sticks with him, as that's been his main issue for me. He gets a bit too carried away with trying to do too much and it ends up slowing things down. His best games are when he's got his head up and is looking to get the ball moving quickly rather than trying to hold off two players and roll the ball under his foot just to prove he can. I think he's trying to prove a point sometimes and it ends up distracting him from what makes him an excellent player. Of course he needs the movement in front of him and not to have Sanchez turning up at the halfway line with no movement ahead.
There's a big difference between asking him to be disciplined and focused with a prize like the world cup on the line and a long season where we may start to lag behind again.
It's where things aren't going well that he needs to show more maturity so i don't put much weight to this idea.
It's where things aren't going well that he needs to show more maturity so i don't put much weight to this idea.
No we will see the same Pogba we have seen for the past two years. As long as we have Jose with his boring defensive style of play, we will see the same Pogba. As we know Jose is a very stubborn manager and a leopard doesn't change his spots.
You're joking but if there's one player United should go all in for in the next couple of years it's him.Mourinho needs to build midfield and more important gameplan around him next season.
Also needs to sign Mbappe to chase down those passes....
I’m talking about maturity in his game not in his lifestyle
No he either wants to leave or Jose doesn't want him.
I think its he wants to leave.
I think its he wants to leave.
I appreciate that and that wasn’t aimed at you mate.
Don't like the thought of Barca sniffing around. Not sure about how strong his loyality to us is.
let's not expect him to dominate games for us or control the play but he can produce a lot of brilliant passes and assists and hopefully reproduce his defensive work for us. let's see how he works with fred but I think he will get with every season
It depends if Jose can motive him.
He clearly wanted to try his hardest to win the WC, will he feel the same way playing for Jose?
I hope Jose can get this team playing with a smile.
He clearly wanted to try his hardest to win the WC, will he feel the same way playing for Jose?
I hope Jose can get this team playing with a smile.
It's not though is it. Pogba looked nothing like the player we saw at Juventus today. He was so much more disciplined and carrying out a specific role. The whole reason he thrived at Juventus was because he was given the license to do as he pleased with Vidal, Pirlo, Marchisio etc around him. Today he was the disciplined one out of the midfield and it worked a treat, as it has all tournament.
Hopefully we will , one of my main criticism of Pogba is that he shows no leadership skills at Utd. Now he is coming back a world cup winner I hope he also comes back as a leader and leads by example. A lot of talk about Didier Deschamps philosophy about it all been about the team and not individuals and that is drilled into the players , no silly attention seeking social media posts or hairstyles from pogba these last few weeks , it was just about football and doing the best for his team. I hope he brings that attitude back with him for this season with us.
Anyone else worried that the World Cup medal will mean we’ll actually get a worse version of the player we saw last season?
His biggest problem last seadon (IMHO) was getting too caught up in his own hype. Taking too much on, taking too many touches, trying to beat too many men. Basically trying too hard to catch the eye. My worry is that “Paul Pogba, World Cup Winner” will have an even more inflated self perception. Which is not good news for United.
His biggest problem last seadon (IMHO) was getting too caught up in his own hype. Taking too much on, taking too many touches, trying to beat too many men. Basically trying too hard to catch the eye. My worry is that “Paul Pogba, World Cup Winner” will have an even more inflated self perception. Which is not good news for United.
"Maturity". No he needs to play in a system that works . Imo he is not a star player(e.g. messi ,ronaldo) but with the right players around him he could shine and be world class .
Having Mbappe as the outball, really really helped him. Mbappe was always available as soon as Pogba had the ball. We never ever have that at United in big games when we play like France do. Leads Pogba to over play things and losing the ball.
Yes. Me.
Pogba has produced similar form in spells for his club, it’s just so happens his club is Manchester United and the English media love to bash everyone connected to the club.
I am. Setting aside the self indulgent bullshit for a month is a lot easier than setting it aside for an entire season.
I'd love for Pogba to decide that the media attention from winning everything in site by being a consistent player outweighs the individual highlights, but I'm skeptical until he starts showing it with us.
If you mean playing wise, maybe. It all depends on Mourinho. If Mourinho doesn't let him facilitate then no we won't. If he's given freedom I think he'll have a much better season.
If you mean personality wise, no. Memes and shit like that are here to stay
If you mean personality wise, no. Memes and shit like that are here to stay
He didn't have freedom at the world cup either.
He doesn't need freedom to play well.
It's all down to him.
The World Cup is different from club football. Yes, it's up to him in that regard but when we bought him we knew the position he wanted to play and so did Mourinho. If he doesn't play him there do you really think it's all on Pogba?
Thing is, the version of Pogba for France is not what United paid a record fee for. In this United team he is expected to create and score, he is supposed to entertain and be flashy. What we saw from him this world cup is not something United would have paid that sum for. When he is back at the club, so much more is going to be expected of him, maybe not necessarily by Mourinho but, definitely the fans and the club hierarchy and Pogba I think is going to try to live up to that expectation. So if he does show this level at the club, people are going to wonder, where are the goals, why isn't he driving forward, why isn't he in the final 3rd creating chance after chance.
What he did show is perhaps in the big games he can be asked to perhaps play the more disciplined role and do very well in that however, over the course of the season, we are going to need him to be more of what he was bought for.
What he did show is perhaps in the big games he can be asked to perhaps play the more disciplined role and do very well in that however, over the course of the season, we are going to need him to be more of what he was bought for.
I'm just saying that Mourinho and Deschamps literally used Pogba in the same role.
Pogba just performed better at this WC, but he's had performances like this for us as well. Just not as consistent as he was this WC.
Those expectations are silly.
There's not a player in football history who could do what you're describing.
He was one of the best players on the pitch in a wc final, i would be over the moon if he played like that for us.
You do know United signed Pogba and not Messi, right? He was never the player you're describing, not even at Juventus. I'm certainly not expecting more of him, but from Mr Mourinho
Honestly I feel the same but I am hopeful that somehow Pogba will realize that his best performances for France can be replicated for his club if he has the same mindset. It's not like he doesn't get to score goals nor assist anyway, he can do it all.