I know you’re obsessed with height but being tall doesn’t stop people sprinting. In fact, basketball players probably sprint more in one game (every time there’s a turnover, basically) than United players have done in our whole season so far.
Workrate
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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Trolling right?
That stat is just pathetic reading. Mourinho or no Mourinho, players who put in an effort like that when the whole world is watching have no professional pride. We all have had bosses who we didn’t like, that didn’t mean we didn’t put in the work. And that is when the whole world isn’t watching us live.
It doesn't, particularly if you are playing on a ground that is much smaller than those used in football. There is a reason why footballers are a lot shorter compared to basketballers. And it is closely related to the reason why Kante is much more dynamic than say Matic.
When was the last time when a top club fielded a team with seven players who are 190+ cm tall? That might be a record in the history of football. A daft one.
It was so obvious against West Ham the players were in friendly mode and just going through the motions. Jose has lost the dressing room. Likely made worse by the alleged issues with Alexis prior to the game.
It's stupid to slag Lukaku or even the wingers for not making sprints, when they simply don't get the balls to sprint for.
When one, two, or three players cover markedly less distance than the others, make fewer sprints and runs, then it's on the players. When the whole team produces such stats, it's systematic, i.e., a question of the tactical setup.
When one, two, or three players cover markedly less distance than the others, make fewer sprints and runs, then it's on the players. When the whole team produces such stats, it's systematic, i.e., a question of the tactical setup.
When I initially saw that graph I thought wow all I see is red, that's not bad, what's the problem? Then I noticed it was compared to the West Ham subs. Feck me.
Sad part is I'm not even surprised, we've always been bottom of the "workrate table". When nearly every player is creating such shit stats, the blame has to go to the tactics.
Well it appears on this occasion the stats back the facts. Observing the game vs west ham, there was no penetration, no grit and what's worse there seemed to be a lack of determination. Is this because of the way Mourinho has set us up or is this because he's lost the dressing room? Perhaps both?
It seems the players are fed up with the negative system in which Mourinho sets us out to play.
We have to be more dynamic and risk taking. Teams are no longer afraid to "have a go" at us now because they know we will just sit deep and absorb the pressure without being able to counter efficiently.
Mourinho has to go. He's not right for us
It seems the players are fed up with the negative system in which Mourinho sets us out to play.
We have to be more dynamic and risk taking. Teams are no longer afraid to "have a go" at us now because they know we will just sit deep and absorb the pressure without being able to counter efficiently.
Mourinho has to go. He's not right for us
This is what worries me the most, our manager isn't trying to play this retreating football. Shaw came out today and basically backed what Jose usually says in his post match, that he's telling them to want the ball, to show movement and to play football.
I find that more alarming then anything else as it means our players aren't doing what's asked. I really can't think of any valid argument as to why are players can't put in the effort, they must be completely devoid of self-motivation and lack any motivation to play for the badge.
I find that more alarming then anything else as it means our players aren't doing what's asked. I really can't think of any valid argument as to why are players can't put in the effort, they must be completely devoid of self-motivation and lack any motivation to play for the badge.
I am sorry I don't believe that the players decide to back off teams. That feels very much like a tactic from Jose. And I see the reasoning behind it, let teams come on to you then you have the space behind them to attack when you win the ball back. Sad thing is, we never consistently win the ball back so it leads to periods where inferior teams like Derby can come to OT and play in our half.
It's like players come here and think they've made it and there's no point in working hard anymore.
On top of playing for one the most famous football clubs in the world, they are being paid better than almost anywhere. And to not give literally everything you've got every fecking game is a disgrace.
But I've come to a realisation long ago that we've assembled a huge squad of players that shouldn't be anywhere near this club.
Mourinho has to go but it won't change anything.
On top of playing for one the most famous football clubs in the world, they are being paid better than almost anywhere. And to not give literally everything you've got every fecking game is a disgrace.
But I've come to a realisation long ago that we've assembled a huge squad of players that shouldn't be anywhere near this club.
Mourinho has to go but it won't change anything.
Pretty much.
There isn’t a poorly performing top side that hasn’t been accused of not trying. It’s an easy cop out (and stat) that doesn’t take into account patterns of movement, lack of confidence and working (or lack thereof) system.
It’s why we have players already at the club that have more than demonstrated an ability to work in all sorts of systems, particularly under tough managers that demand intensity and work rate. Apparently they wear a United shirt and suddenly become awful, lazy players. Imagine believing that tosh.
Backing off yeah but we did that under Fergie as a tactic too, it was always a huge gripe on here. You can still put the effort in once compact to win the ball rather than letting men run past . Pogba and Fred did it for a couple of games tbf.
I see very little reason for shaw to lie or jose even as it just reflects badly on him.
Some of our players are that slow that they probably struggle to hit the speed that constitutes a sprint. The likes of Mata, Matic, Fellaini and Lindelof
No surprise. Lack of off the ball movement is the biggest culprit and the most obvious thing we are shit at.
Mourinho is a fecking clueless manager if he thinks we will get somewhere by continuing to have such a static football on play.
Why are we surprised that Pogba hangs on to the ball so much when nobody arounds him run to make openings ?
Very bad. We don't run or move at all. Jose cannot even set this team to have lightning counter like he did before. We don't keep the ball at all and we don't counter when we regain it.
Why do you believe this is the players fault and not related to managerial settings?
For example, why would Pogba not want to put in an effort when he clearly wants to play for France and the French manager loves hard working players (he was one himself).
It's full with armchair psychologists on here.
Posted it in the some players care less thread but it fits here too.
We usually end up at 20th when it comes to distance covered, now according to rumors we are trying to sign Zidane. His Madrid team were also in the last position when it came to distance covered.
So after all we might be again at the bottom of the table in distance covered.
So after all we might be again at the bottom of the table in distance covered.
That's interesting. Are you talking about CL or also La Liga? Link?
Only CL. Don't think UEFA keeps historic data for distance covered. It was posted long back with Madrid averaging 103 kms per game.
Ok, thanks.
AS/Marca do a cursory review of the La Liga distance covered stats at times — you can probably find all the recent figures in their archives.
e.g. 2016 season:
Interestingly, Cristiano has covered the most distance in big matches and CL matches over the last year or so, though to be fair, he also played more minutes than the others.
http://www.marca.com/en/football/real-madrid/2018/04/24/5adf0eff268e3e0a238b45ff.html
Thanks for sharing. Madrid ran several games 110+ km which ain't bad.
Apparently, Atleti are champions in running: 119 and 120 km in both games with Madrid. Simeone might be pragmatic but his team works much much harder than Jose's United.
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No he looks very slow every time I watch him.
That anecdote about what Mourinho said at Soccer Aid is very revealing.
If your football is reactive and passive then it is not a surprise that we have consistently been at the bottom of distances covered. People use Barca and Real as a example that it isn’t all that - but they dominate possession to a large extent and thus don’t really need to exert themselves .. plus Reals lack of workrate counted against them in the league and I’m sure they saved themselves for CL fitness wise. Already under the new manager they seem to be working a lot harder so it shows that the manager has a huge impact on fitness levels and output by virtue of their tactical framework.
If Klopp was here, we’d be near the top and anyone unable to produce the work rate he wants would be out of the club.
The other big issue is that if players want the manager out - they’re simply not going to play out of their skin and chase lost causes as much and that will also have a big impact on sprints. We basically have a number of factors going against us to cause what even to the naked eye is a very slow moving almost vegetative state football side.
If Klopp was here, we’d be near the top and anyone unable to produce the work rate he wants would be out of the club.
The other big issue is that if players want the manager out - they’re simply not going to play out of their skin and chase lost causes as much and that will also have a big impact on sprints. We basically have a number of factors going against us to cause what even to the naked eye is a very slow moving almost vegetative state football side.
Martial is 1 of the fastest players in the league
Not surprised that is thread popped up again this. Mourinho should be sacked based of these statistics alone. We have Fred in the team who is capable of covering more ground than anyone in the league and he is not being utilized properly. Hopefully, our next manager get rid of some of these players who refuses to work hard for the team.
I remember during the sir Alex Ferguson area, players like Fletcher, Ji sung park, Welbeck, Hernandez, Cleverly and a few others were mocked for being headless chicken. At the moment, this team can use some headless chicken in order to show that they are fighting for this team and correct this shocking numbers.
I remember during the sir Alex Ferguson area, players like Fletcher, Ji sung park, Welbeck, Hernandez, Cleverly and a few others were mocked for being headless chicken. At the moment, this team can use some headless chicken in order to show that they are fighting for this team and correct this shocking numbers.
Well it is a shame that he doesn't use his speed as when I have watched him he looks far too ponderous.Martial is 1 of the fastest players in the league
Many people have criticized our midfield for not passing the required balls for other players to sprint onto.
However, the most effective sprints are those in order to create spaces.
It is not just about the lack of passing it is the almost complete lack of running off the ball.
Watch any other team and you will see players making runs so as to open up packed defences.
This is basic and should not need to be coached.
Hate to say it but City are brilliant at this.
It is all about playing as a TEAM and not as individuals and the truth is we are nothing like good enough at this and that is why we are struggling.
No excuse for the stats we’ve seen v Brighton away and West Ham away. Regardless of stance on manager simply saying its his job to motivate them doesn’t cut it. Manager conversation aside, some players are selling us all short
There’s massive mental weaknesses in our squad. 5 lost penalty shootouts in a row is proof enough of that, but above all else the way we get absolutely bullied by every single team that’s remotely aggressive is evidence enough. There are qualities I grew up associating with Man Utd players and of the current squad very few have them. Fergie always spoke about fearlessness and courage. They’re not just old fashioned terms, they’re incredibly important when you’re up against top athletes. We lack both in abundance
Maybe at full tilt he's quick but off the blocks he looks like he's running in sand to me.Martial is 1 of the fastest players in the league
coaching, coaching, coaching. City didn't do this at all before Guardiola arrived. Liverpool did it a bit under Rodgers but nowhere near to the Klopp level.
The problem is the team can't press when they're lined up on our own penalty box. You have to play a high defensive line and lead from the front, Jose doesn't like that.
I agree though we do lack running in general, but why is this not being picked up and dealt with? we've been the same for 2 years.
I know if in the team meeting where they watch the match back, if I was the head coach I would be going crazy looking at how lethargic we are. Maybe our players are just knackered from running 3/4 of the pitch once we win the ball back.
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Agreed 100%.
Some on here, of course, will have you believe that Jose does not want the players to put in effort. They seem to ignore the fact that players like Fellaini and even Shaw are putting in a big effort when they play.
Agreed. These players who don't give their all need to be moved on. If they can't be moved on during Jose's tenure, they won't be moved on when the next manager shows up. You can't move players on unless you have backing that you will get replacements. So, it will likely be mostly the same set of players even with a new manager. If they don't cover lots of ground now, don't expect them to then. Also, the mentality is key. When the going gets tough, the weak minded players go to player power. The strong-minded players go to work!
When you put it like that...100 less sprints than Liverpool, that’s disgraceful.
Not surprised though, we finished 2nd last year and were 20th in the whole league for the distance covered. Were players downing tools back then as well? That’s just the slippery slope with these tactics, difficult to suddenly switch over to high intensity football when things are going bad and you need to pick up the pace when you’re simply not used to it.
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Distance covered by teams yesterday.
CSKA - 117
Shakhtar - 116
Madrid - 113
Hoffenheim - 113
Ajax - 113
Juventus - 111
Bayern - 111
Lyon - 111
Athens - 109
Roma - 108
Young boys - 107
Benfica - 107
ManCity - 106
Valencia - 104
Viktoria Lizen - 104
ManUtd - 99
Shocking effort.
CSKA - 117
Shakhtar - 116
Madrid - 113
Hoffenheim - 113
Ajax - 113
Juventus - 111
Bayern - 111
Lyon - 111
Athens - 109
Roma - 108
Young boys - 107
Benfica - 107
ManCity - 106
Valencia - 104
Viktoria Lizen - 104
ManUtd - 99
Shocking effort.