I think Pep would really struggle with this United squad as he doesn't have the midfielders to play his system
he'd probably find it more difficult than his first season at City, when he at least had a couple of midfielders in the mould he likes
Would Pep/Tuchel win the title with the current United squad and Ole with the current City/Chelsea squad?
- Thread starter Strelok
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
he'd probably find it more difficult than his first season at City, when he at least had a couple of midfielders in the mould he likes
Maybe Tuchel because he’d just throw us in a 5atb set up and make us tough to beat, essentially guarding the midfield.
Pep I’m not sure because he’s never been great at setting up around sub par midfields (in comparison to other midfields. Despite recent hysteria our midfield is NOT subpar overall). Feel like he’d probably play VdB more or have Shaw sit in more.
Pep I’m not sure because he’s never been great at setting up around sub par midfields (in comparison to other midfields. Despite recent hysteria our midfield is NOT subpar overall). Feel like he’d probably play VdB more or have Shaw sit in more.
Saying Sean Dyche or Moyes could win the league is the stupidest thing I’ve read in a while on here. Get a grip
How do you think he'd do it? Pep loves technical, ball-savvy players in his engine room. If he could, he'd put out a starting 11 with a GK and 10 midfielders (think Xavi and Gundogan). Does the United squad have enough of these players?
They have plenty of options out wide and Cancelo/Zinchenko for left back. They also don't have any issues scoring goals without a striker so that looks close to finish team. Of course they'll continue buying new players because they can.
Yes Ole is not out of depth, but IMHO he is far more dangerous than an out of depth manager. An out of depth manager we can get rid off quickly, like we did with Moyes(it wasn't that quick), but an average one and a club legend at that will cause more damage in the long run.
Our signings are all over the place and the fanbase is split as we are decent enough to do well in short bursts which convinces a part of fanbase's dream of a club legend making us great again but other part of the fanbase are convinced that he is never going to win the league or anything of worth as winning stuff needs us to be consistent on the longer run.
We are still one of the poorly coached sides among the top clubs in England and across Europe, we are getting by with individual brilliance and assembling a squad of good players. We need a manager who can coach us and make us less dependent on individuals.
Guardiola would have prioritized getting a midfielder or two if we had him this season, same goes for Tuchel.
Even if both of them are handed over this squad mid season, they'd start coaching the team, setting us up for the next season and identify targets that are needed for the next season.
Ole at City and Chelsea will fare better at the beginning as Guardiola's style and Tuchel's style would be imprinted for a little while.
Even if both of them are handed over this squad mid season, they'd start coaching the team, setting us up for the next season and identify targets that are needed for the next season.
Ole at City and Chelsea will fare better at the beginning as Guardiola's style and Tuchel's style would be imprinted for a little while.
And yet every manager that come before Ole has kept Lingard, and Mata.
Top quality managers wouldn't have signed James, they wouldn't have given Mata and Grant new contracts, they would probably play VDB more and they would probably sacrifice not buying Sancho in exchange of a top CM. We need to embrace to the idea that CM was not Ole's main priority.
Last edited:
Mata was 3 years younger when Ole signed for us. Meanwhile Ole has enjoyed an unprecedented amount of investment that the likes of Mou, Moyes and LVG can only be jealous about. I very much doubt that these managers would have kept Lingard if they could rely on the likes of Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood, Ronaldo, Martial and co.
Pep would probably have huge issues with our midfield. Would probably sell one of Bruno/Pogba and play Van de Beek more. No chance the likes of Lingard/James/Matić/Martial/AWB play a minute under him.
no
Ole could not win CL with Chelsea's squad it is for sure. Still hate it we lost the EL final this year.
LVG in 2 summers spent 258m. Mouriniho in 3 summers spent 363m and Ole in 3 summers has spent 385m. So erm not really a huge difference. Average of about 125m every year. I believe his net spend might be slightly better aswell although I haven't checked it.
Dan James was always a bit of a gamble, turns out he isn't the required quality and we are selling him for profit not really sure whats wrong with that scenario?
What do expect him to do with lingard? Terminate his contract? If noone comes in for him and he wants to stay and fight for his place there isn't really alot Ole can do. He is a decent squad player who can offer cover a LW/CAM and RW. He isn't first 11 quality and Ole isn't playing him in the first 11 so again what exactly is wrong with that scenario?
Answer is obvious. When Pep took control of City, he spent 200m on 4x fullbacks, and counting. So no way he will win anything without drastic change in his squad, or at least 4-5 addition until he can tune in.
Tuchel can transform the same losing team into a winner, imagine he was in charge from August. Under the same argument, given MU was #2 last season and provided 1 transfer window to Tuchel, yes he can push us an extra 10 points.
2nd question was can Ole did the reverse. They have far too many big head players for Ole to manage. Assuming all of them are OK with his management, then I would probably assert the conclusion that Ole-City should meet his counter-attack style, as they have got the players. But not Ole-Chelsea, because of Timo, and Lukaku is definitely not his solution...
Tuchel can transform the same losing team into a winner, imagine he was in charge from August. Under the same argument, given MU was #2 last season and provided 1 transfer window to Tuchel, yes he can push us an extra 10 points.
2nd question was can Ole did the reverse. They have far too many big head players for Ole to manage. Assuming all of them are OK with his management, then I would probably assert the conclusion that Ole-City should meet his counter-attack style, as they have got the players. But not Ole-Chelsea, because of Timo, and Lukaku is definitely not his solution...
I think many people look at some of the current United players and think they’re not capable of this or that when I think more so then the players solely the players quality the coaching and tactics seem to be the issue.
Ole should definitely be winning with that squad as Pep, Tuchel and Klopp would probably push as close as possible.
That begs the question, is Ole good enough win the title this year with all the time and money he has spent? I don't think so and unless City Pool or chavs drop dramatically for a period of say 2 seasons including this one then maybe he'd be in with a shout of actually winning it.
That begs the question, is Ole good enough win the title this year with all the time and money he has spent? I don't think so and unless City Pool or chavs drop dramatically for a period of say 2 seasons including this one then maybe he'd be in with a shout of actually winning it.
Why would be need to buy new fullbacks at United when he has Shaw and AWB (a younger Walker) at his disposal, instead of an atrophied Sagna and Clichy and Kolarov?
It bears saying that he won the league last season without playing a striker. Its not certain he would win the league without his signings but he'd do better (maybe use VDB for one??)
He barely outperformed Ole so far league wise. What makes you think he is automatically good for 10 extra points?
What big-head players do City have? And how is Chelsea not suited for Ole's preference for counter attacking?
The OP is a shitty one, because it's questions no one can answer definitely, but enough people try using spurious information.
Tuchel didn't win CL with PSG, didn't win the league with Dortmund. Certainly didn't prove anything yet here in PL.
He won CL with Chelsea suddenly he is a title winning manager. I can't understand this obsession.
He won CL with Chelsea suddenly he is a title winning manager. I can't understand this obsession.
20 mins of Fred passing the ball straight out of play has Pep convulsing on the floor, spit frothing from his noseFerguson signed Bebe.
And Büttner, Manucho, Djemba-Djemba, Diouf, etc. Nothing wrong with taking a gamble on a young player with a low transfer fee once in a while.
Obertan the Ronaldo replacement.
Diouf now there’s a player I completely forgot played for United until you mentioned him.
I don't understand it, some saying he'd do better than Pep
. Klopp would be a better manager for this example.That's not true. Since his appointment, only City have won more points than Chelsea. And in the meantime, he reached two cup finals too. I don't know if he can take Chelsea to a 90-points season, but they look very stable at the back and very secure with their possession. And last week, their progress was clear even to the naked eye: From losing the plot and conceding 5 goals against WBA, of all teams, to easily holding back Liverpool at Anfield after going a man down in the first half. They seem to be a very confident side at the moment.
I don't know how well Solskhaer would do with them, since his style is different, but they kind of look like how we would have played on the pitch, if LvG had been a success at OT. On the other hand, this Chelsea squad has proven to be very versatile. Many of their players won the title under Conte playing mostly transitional football. But again, someone could argue that, when the shite hit the fan, Conte went back to his trusted 352 which had brought him success, whereas Solskjaer is still trying to reach the same heights with his preferred 4231. See, this is the problem with hypotheticals.
Bringing Pep into the debate is pointless. He wouldn't even let this particular crop of midfielders into Carrington. Not even Pogba, not because Paul doesn't have talent but because Pep looks for a completely different set of skills when he plays moneyball with his midfield options. Whether Solskjaer would manage to do a Mancini/Pellegrini at City, i honestly can't tell. Once again, these two employed similar tactics to Pep and are now deemed as the lesser versions of him who set the way for the Catalan. Solskjaer's style seems out of place there and i also believe that City side has delved very deep into his tactics to seamlessly go through a radical change in tactics.
Klopp, his early stats and the faith the Liverpool board put in him, are often used as the benchmark for Solskjaer. They both create sides that thrive on dynamism, early balls in-behind and transition football. And they both perceive possession more as a means to an end rather than the foundation upon their tactics are build. Nowadays, Klopp even has an excellent on the ball midfielder in Thiago who can't break into the side. Doesn't it remind you of our necessity, out of all the options available, to field McFred as the most functional partnership in the midfield? That's what suits our football and bad thing is that top-class upgrades are very hard to find.
And here is where the similarities with Klopp end, i'm afraid. Because there is actual proof of what he can do with no striker and a midfield that consists of Henderson/Milner and Wijnaldum. So, yeah, i would trust him more with this United side. On the other hand, we could use a signing like Fabinho. But with a player like him at United, i would demand of Klopp to go out all guns blazing for the two major honours. Solskjaer, i feel, would do well at Liverpool, but i wouldn't fancy him to go all the way, should the league be decided on 90+ points without Klopp's press and tactical overloads. But, you never know...
Last edited:
Since this is a completely hypothetical thread I'd bet my house (Well flat) that if Ole was in charge at Arsenal he wouldn't do any better than Arteta is at the moment.
What about getting closer in terms of points?
There are so many like him from the last Fergie years. Zoran Tosic, Obertan, Nick Powell, Ritchie De Laet, Possebon, etc.
That is quite frankly laughable, Ole would have them top half at least
Pretty much this. /thread
Dangerous? You’re talking out of your arse. He could call it a day tomorrow and he’d be the only manager since 2013 to leave the club in a (significantly!) better position than which he inherited.
Will we win the league? I’ve no idea; probably not. But he has enough credit in the bank to be given a chance to do so.
Certainly not in his first full season. I think it was a minor miracle that a team that regularly featured the likes of Pereira, Lingard, Dan James, Juan Mata etc...was able to finish in 3rd position. Realistically, that squad could EASILY have finished 6th and I don't think we could have argued it deserved better on paper.
Last season was a little bit disappointing in the sense that we got into a very good position in the league and a Europa League final and seemed to lack the killer instinct required, on and off the pitch. However, it's worth noting that we still finished best of the rest behind a very good City squad in a freak season where we had no choice but to run some of our players into the ground.
As an aside, this is Ole's record at United...I really don't see how he can be criticised at this point.
WIN PER CENT AFTER 100 TOP-FLIGHT GAMES
Ernest Mangnall – 54
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer – 53
Ron Atkinson – 50
Sir Matt Busby – 48
Sir Alex Ferguson – 45
Dave Sexton – 39
Tommy Docherty – 38
Herbert Bamlett – 34
Jack Robson – 33
Arsenal are a complete disaster as a club with a squad full of mediocre players. What makes you so confident that Ole would be a success there?
This argument loses credibility when the line has been towed all summer that we need sales to fund any more incomings, only for the Glazers to sanction a mammoth deal for Ronaldo in a matter of hours.
For years we haven't shown the ambition in the transfer market to go and win a title. We are now one position away from having a squad that is very capable of challenging and the ownership are more concerned with a PR/vanity signing than one that addresses the weaknesses of the team.
The fact he's a better manager than arteta, he won't get European football but he wouldn't be bottom of the league either
Tbf I don't think that's entirely true, I mean yes Tuchel has took things to a totally different stratosphere but we weren't that bad defensively under Lampard once Silva and Mendy were in.
Ironically it was the lack of attacking ideas that saw to him.
They finished one point off top 4 in the full season pre Arteta.
Their squad is as bad as it is because of Arteta's diabolical recruitment and decision making. Most of their current squad are his by way of signing or contract renewal, and he offered Mustafi a new deal so they'll be in an even bigger mess right now if he got his way on that one.
To recap: Pep would demand 2 new central midfielders and possibly a rightback.
As for Tuchel: we're gonna get the answer soon! Why? Because his team is not worse than ours. If he wins the league with Chelsea, then chances are he would have won with the current United team.
As for Tuchel: we're gonna get the answer soon! Why? Because his team is not worse than ours. If he wins the league with Chelsea, then chances are he would have won with the current United team.
Pep at United - no, we don’t have the players for his philosophy
tuchel at United - yes
Ole at City/Chelsea - no
tuchel at United - yes
Ole at City/Chelsea - no
Dangerous might have been a bit over the top I agree but he is still going to waste years for us, precious time where we could have rebuilt and had a properly coached side. I'm not expecting titles/cups every year, I can even take another 3 years of us not winning anything but I need to see improvement in how we play, how we pass, how we press, tactically outsmarting other big teams etc. We should have done this once SAF retired, we have already wasted 7 years chasing instant titles or quick fixes, we cannot waste another 2 years on OGS.