Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll added)

Sack or Keep OLE?


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Shamana

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Of course Ole should be given time. Today performence was good but whatever happened today don't mean anything looking at bigger picture. Changes take time and we are in the beggining of that. Our results will go up and down as we have mentioned over and over again.



If Pochettino comes, and he does what he has done in Tottenham, we would have exactly 0 trophies. Maybe he would do lot better here, maybe not. But for now I don't think he is the answer. The answer is time where we can make changes that needs to be done. Starting with buying right players.


They were not past it managers. They came to a club that was were fragile after Sir Alex Ferguson left and a club without any sorts of good plan for future. That is why we are where we are. Changing players and managers all the time didn't do us any good and made us more unstable.

I agree we should have some kind of Director of football.


Not for us. We know that regardless of todays score we need time and things will go up and down. But we have to have patience.
I'm not really sure why you are certain that Poch can't win trophies with Man Utd.

Is Ole looking likely to win big trophies with us because he won the norwegian league twice which is stratospheres lower than the PL. I'm certainly not seeing Ole looking to win trophies with us atm.

If you're looking someone with a hefty trophy cabinet there's Allegri.
 

Judge Red

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The answer still lies elsewhere for me, sadly. Under him we’ll have good days like today but it’s not enough unless we’re willing to accept being a top six club and nothing more.
 

90 + 5min

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I'm not really sure why you are certain that Poch can't win trophies with Man Utd.

Is Ole looking likely to win big trophies with us because he won the norwegian league twice which is stratospheres lower than the PL. I'm certainly not seeing Ole looking to win trophies with us atm.

If you're looking someone with a hefty trophy cabinet there's Allegri.
I never said he wouldn't win trophies here. I said he might be better here but also worse. Nobody knows. My reply is to a poster and I was saying that if he does the same thing here as in his previous clubs we would have 0 trophies.
 

Shamana

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I never said he wouldn't win trophies here. I said he might be better here but also worse. Nobody knows. My reply is to a poster and I was saying that if he does the same thing here as in his previous clubs we would have 0 trophies.
You have to take the context. When was the last time someone won a major trophy with Spurs or Southampton? He knocked out Pep's City in the CL semifinals as well despite having key players like Harry Kane injured.
 

RedorDead21

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You have to take the context. When was the last time someone won a major trophy with Spurs or Southampton? He knocked out Pep's City in the CL semifinals as well despite having key players like Harry Kane injured.
The most damning thing for poch has been Kane’s interviews since he left saying things like “yeah now we can think about needing to win trophy’s” and he thinks with Mou “I’m sure that can happen”. Basically suggesting it was something about Poch stopping them take that final step. And indeed it was, not being able to get results from the top 4 for a start. Horrid away record against them over several years with a decent spurs team.
 

hmchan

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We’re right behind Lampard and Chelsea, should they be thinking of sacking him?

We’re ahead of Tottenham, who fired Pochettino for his lack of points this sesson. Should we spring for him?

Your analysis is superficial. Unless you reckon Poch and Lamps also deserve to be called out for being shit?
You have to accept that different people have different criteria in judging a manager's ability. Some would only care about results and points, while some would consider other factors. But in both ways, I don't see any reason to keep Ole honestly.

In terms of results, both Pochettino and Emery were sacked in November, by then we had similar points and Ole should have been long gone by this standard. Lampard was out of the equation as his team had 9 more points and were in the top 4.

Yes the above analysis is indeed superficial. But even if we look deeper, I still don't see how Ole deserves to stay and Lampard deserves to be called out. Chelsea were banned for a transfer window and they couldn't do much in the market, while their star Hazard left for Madrid. Under these difficult circumstances, Lampard still manages to do well and gives extensive chances to youngsters like Abraham, Hudson-Odoi, Mount, James, etc. He also doesn't have major obvious weakness like how we struggle against weaker sides. Of course he had some bad time with back 3 and Kante, but he overcame the situation and turned things around. On the other hand, Ole had all the resources but he chose to invest 80m in Maguire. He claimed to provide opportunities to young players but they could barely get a chance. His philosophy is to play attacking football but we still can't find an attacking formula against smaller sides. I guess there's a reason why people call Ole out but not Lampard.
 

Shamana

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The most damning thing for poch has been Kane’s interviews since he left saying things like “yeah now we can think about needing to win trophy’s” and he thinks with Mou “I’m sure that can happen”. Basically suggesting it was something about Poch stopping them take that final step. And indeed it was, not being able to get results from the top 4 for a start. Horrid away record against them over several years with a decent spurs team.
I doubt Poch actively tried to avoid winning trophies. Like telling his team pre-match talk for the CL final "Okay, let's throw this guys".
 

Greck

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The most damning thing for poch has been Kane’s interviews since he left saying things like “yeah now we can think about needing to win trophy’s” and he thinks with Mou “I’m sure that can happen”. Basically suggesting it was something about Poch stopping them take that final step. And indeed it was, not being able to get results from the top 4 for a start. Horrid away record against them over several years with a decent spurs team.
Twisting Kane's words a bit, don't you think?
 

Eriku

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You have to accept that different people have different criteria in judging a manager's ability. Some would only care about results and points, while some would consider other factors. But in both ways, I don't see any reason to keep Ole honestly.

In terms of results, both Pochettino and Emery were sacked in November, by then we had similar points and Ole should have been long gone by this standard. Lampard was out of the equation as his team had 9 more points and were in the top 4.

Yes the above analysis is indeed superficial. But even if we look deeper, I still don't see how Ole deserves to stay and Lampard deserves to be called out. Chelsea were banned for a transfer window and they couldn't do much in the market, while their star Hazard left for Madrid. Under these difficult circumstances, Lampard still manages to do well and gives extensive chances to youngsters like Abraham, Hudson-Odoi, Mount, James, etc. He also doesn't have major obvious weakness like how we struggle against weaker sides. Of course he had some bad time with back 3 and Kante, but he overcame the situation and turned things around. On the other hand, Ole had all the resources but he chose to invest 80m in Maguire. He claimed to provide opportunities to young players but they could barely get a chance. His philosophy is to play attacking football but we still can't find an attacking formula against smaller sides. I guess there's a reason why people call Ole out but not Lampard.
I accept people having different criteria, only problem is when they don’t apply the criteria equally to others than Ole. Btw, you say you don’t see why Ole deserves to stay and Lampard to get called out, where on earth did I imply that? I’m just saying if the points haul is enough to call out Ole, then it should also cast doubt over Emery, Lampard and Pochettino.

As it happens I think that analysis is too superficial. Ole’s come into a far trickier situation than they did, in my book.
 

MaxiPaxi

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At least people seem to have stoped flip flopping. Ole out win lose or draw. The man isn't good enough to be a Man Utd manager.
 

tomaldinho1

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The most damning thing for poch has been Kane’s interviews since he left saying things like “yeah now we can think about needing to win trophy’s” and he thinks with Mou “I’m sure that can happen”. Basically suggesting it was something about Poch stopping them take that final step. And indeed it was, not being able to get results from the top 4 for a start. Horrid away record against them over several years with a decent spurs team.
Yeah because it's in his interest to say he wishes Poch was still there etc...
 

90 + 5min

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We are 2 points ahead of sheff Utd. Were they in the PL last season?
What is the purpose of your post? To say what? Another wierd comment to include to the witchhunting? So what if they are behind us by 2 points. We are couple of points ahead Tottenham. Were they in Champions League final last year? We are couple of points ahead of Tottenham and Mourinho. Does he have lot of titles?
 

Shamana

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What is the purpose of your post? To say what? Another wierd comment to include to the witchhunting? So what if they are behind us by 2 points. We are couple of points ahead Tottenham. Were they in Champions League final last year? We are couple of points ahead of Tottenham and Mourinho. Does he have lot of titles?
It was to witchhunt.
 
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At least people seem to have stoped flip flopping. Ole out win lose or draw. The man isn't good enough to be a Man Utd manager.
I couldn't care how people vote but surprised it hasn't moved (given previous changes).

Was close to 50/50 not long ago then we had a couple of poor results (Arsenal, City) and it moved to almost 53/47.

Decent home win with front three all scoring and sticks...?

He's here until Summer (min) I think.

(Edit. I think to get a clearer idea, you either start the vote again so people are voting with some context... a reasonable term to judge him by. OR make it (1) sack (2) keep til end of season (3) keep full stop.
 

Shamana

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What is the purpose of your post? To say what? Another wierd comment to include to the witchhunting? So what if they are behind us by 2 points. We are couple of points ahead Tottenham. Were they in Champions League final last year? We are couple of points ahead of Tottenham and Mourinho. Does he have lot of titles?
Mourinho is doing a poor job as well.
 

Handsome Devil

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I couldn't care how people vote but surprised it hasn't moved (given previous changes).

Was close to 50/50 not long ago then we had a couple of poor results (Arsenal, City) and it moved to almost 53/47.

Decent home win with front three all scoring and sticks...?

He's here until Summer (min) I think.

(Edit. I think to get a clearer idea, you either start the vote again so people are voting with some context... a reasonable term to judge him by. OR make it (1) sack (2) keep til end of season (3) keep full stop.
While non United fans, or WUMs posing as United fans continue to vote, there will be no accurate sample anyhow.
 

Rafaeldagold

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If they want to vote 'sack' let 'em, it's just a bit of harmless fun at the end of the day.
Umm I think you know fully well that non United fans are voting ‘Keep’

They love where we’re at right now with a mediocre manager at best
 

Bilbo

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You have to accept that different people have different criteria in judging a manager's ability. Some would only care about results and points, while some would consider other factors. But in both ways, I don't see any reason to keep Ole honestly.

In terms of results, both Pochettino and Emery were sacked in November, by then we had similar points and Ole should have been long gone by this standard. Lampard was out of the equation as his team had 9 more points and were in the top 4.

Yes the above analysis is indeed superficial. But even if we look deeper, I still don't see how Ole deserves to stay and Lampard deserves to be called out. Chelsea were banned for a transfer window and they couldn't do much in the market, while their star Hazard left for Madrid. Under these difficult circumstances, Lampard still manages to do well and gives extensive chances to youngsters like Abraham, Hudson-Odoi, Mount, James, etc. He also doesn't have major obvious weakness like how we struggle against weaker sides. Of course he had some bad time with back 3 and Kante, but he overcame the situation and turned things around. On the other hand, Ole had all the resources but he chose to invest 80m in Maguire. He claimed to provide opportunities to young players but they could barely get a chance. His philosophy is to play attacking football but we still can't find an attacking formula against smaller sides. I guess there's a reason why people call Ole out but not Lampard.
Chelsea are having a very similar season to United actually. In the last few weeks they have won away at Tottenham and Arsenal - very good results that reflect well on Lampard. They have also lost at home to West Ham, Bournemouth and Southampton though. Imagine the noise on here if we had lost those 3 home games, and yet you claim that only United struggle against weaker sides? They struggle for consistency in the same way that United do, because they have a new coach that is still getting to grips with the squad and they have a number of young players that will struggle to be consistent in this league, but they are being patient with them because they hope that the end will justify the mean - sounds awfully familiar doesn't it.

Squad wise Chelsea are stronger than we are. They have a lot more depth, particularly in forward areas. Yes they had a transfer ban and lost their best player in the summer too (we've lost Pogba too), but they were fortunate that they had an army of loaned-out talent that they could, and did, call upon. Abraham, James, Mount, Tomori & Pulisic are all effectively new signings. If Chelsea lose Abraham, they call on Batshuayi. Lose him, they have Giroud. Pedro, Willian, Pulisic & Hudson Odoi ensure they are always strong in attack. Their squad is deep - particularly in forward areas, and yet they have only scored 3 more league goals than a United team that are unable to rotate and are crippled by any injury we suffer.

If that's not enough then what about the fact that we've beaten them twice this season. 6-1 on aggregate so far.

Lets face it, neither Ole nor Lampard should have any concerns about being fired this season. Both clubs knew what they were taking on when they appointed these managers. Your post is a classic example of many that we see on here that have a problem with Ole and refuse to be balanced in the analysis.
 
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Chelsea are having a very similar season to United actually. In the last few weeks they have won away at Tottenham and Arsenal - very good results that reflect well on Lampard. They have also lost at home to West Ham, Bournemouth and Southampton though. Imagine the noise on here if we had lost those 3 home games, and yet you claim that only United struggle against weaker sides? They struggle for consistency in the same way that United do, because they have a new coach that is still getting to grips with the squad and they have a number of young players that will struggle to be consistent in this league, but they are being patient with them because they hope that the end will justify the mean - sounds awfully familiar doesn't it.

Squad wise Chelsea are stronger than we are. They have a lot more depth, particularly in forward areas. Yes they had a transfer ban and lost their best player in the summer too (we've lost Pogba too), but they were fortunate that they had an army of loaned-out talent that they could, and did, call upon. Abraham, James, Mount, Tomori & Pulisic are all effectively new signings. If Chelsea lose Abraham, they call on Batshuayi. Lose him, they have Giroud. Pedro, Willian, Pulisic & Hudson Odoi ensure they are always strong in attack. Their squad is deep - particularly in forward areas, and yet they have only scored 3 more league goals than a United team that are unable to rotate and are crippled by any injury we suffer.

If that's not enough then what about the fact that we've beaten them twice this season. 6-1 on aggregate so far.

Lets face it, neither Ole nor Lampard should have any concerns about being fired this season. Both clubs knew what they were taking on when they appointed these managers. Your post is a classic example of many that we see on here that have a problem with Ole and refuse to be balanced in the analysis.
Yip.

The transfer ban comment (ignoring the new players they still got, the loan players returning) is used frequently.

You'd expect fans of any club to flex slightly to their own manager first (natural bias?) but amazing that so many United fans seem determined to have an agenda against Ole (who, TO BE CLEAR, is not perfect).
 

trafford1980

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I've voted 'keep' for now.

I was leaning towards voting 'sack' heading into December but those early wins against Spurs and City, along with some of the recent thrashings we've handed out to AZ, Newcastle and Norwich have warranted a stay of execution in my opinion.

I'm always going to look at our traditional champions league rivals for a relativity check and the fact is that we were ninth before the Spurs win back in early December, trailing them by 3 points, Arsenal by 1 and Chelsea by 8. We now lead Spurs by 4 ( 7 point gain,) Arsenal by 6 (7 point gain,) and have closed the gap to Chelsea.

Ed needs to back Ole with Bruno + one more, and let's see if there's more consistency for the last dozen or so matches once the new signings have settled and Pogba and Scott are back.

We've got a tough run ahead. Wolves (c), Liverpool, Burnley, City (c), Wolves again and Chelsea are our next six matches. 9 points against Burnley, Wolves and Chelsea are an absolute must if Ole's going to survive probable losses at Anfield and the Etihad.
 

Bilbo

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I've voted 'keep' for now.

I was leaning towards voting 'sack' heading into December but those early wins against Spurs and City, along with some of the recent thrashings we've handed out to AZ, Newcastle and Norwich have warranted a stay of execution in my opinion.

I'm always going to look at our traditional champions league rivals for a relativity check and the fact is that we were ninth before the Spurs win back in early December, trailing them by 3 points, Arsenal by 1 and Chelsea by 8. We now lead Spurs by 4 ( 7 point gain,) Arsenal by 6 (7 point gain,) and have closed the gap to Chelsea.

Ed needs to back Ole with Bruno + one more, and let's see if there's more consistency for the last dozen or so matches once the new signings have settled and Pogba and Scott are back.

We've got a tough run ahead. Wolves (c), Liverpool, Burnley, City (c), Wolves again and Chelsea are our next six matches. 9 points against Burnley, Wolves and Chelsea are an absolute must if Ole's going to survive probable losses at Anfield and the Etihad.
I was looking at our run-in the other day. We have a tough run up until mid-March when we have the City & Spurs fixtures back to back again. Its always futile looking further ahead than the next week in football, but in terms of our league season if we can stay within 5 points of Chelsea after that run ends, we then have the following set of fixtures:

Sheff Utd (h)
Brighton (a)
Bournemouth (h)
Villa (a)
Soton (h)
Palace (a)
West Ham (h)

Hopefully there will be quite a few Europa league ties in there to complicate matters, but on paper that is a dream run of fixtures that will lead us up to Leicester away on the final day. Pogba and McTominay will hopefully be back by then, and perhaps a January signing. I predict that Leicester will have a tough run of results too and get drawn into the pack. I think we have every chance of getting back there next season even without considering the Europa league being a second opportunity.
 
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many United fans seem determined to have an agenda against Ole (who, TO BE CLEAR, is not perfect).
I don't think that's the case at all and adds nothing to the debate.

Even now after a "decent" December we still have only a 40.9% win-rate. It was below 40 before a game against the PL's worst side at the weekend. Chelsea on the other hand have a 54.5% win-rate.

There is no agenda, 99.9% of fans would love nothing more than to see Ole prove them wrong and finish the season 4th before making massive strides next season. It's simply that some fans expect a hell of a lot better and are of a different opinion regarding what some see as "reasons" and they see as "excuses". Stop trying to make it something it isn't.
 
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I don't think that's the case at all and adds nothing to the debate.

Even now after a "decent" December we still have only a 40.9% win-rate. It was below 40 before a game against the PL's worst side at the weekend. Chelsea on the other hand have a 54.5% win-rate.

There is no agenda, 99.9% of fans would love nothing more than to see Ole prove them wrong and finish the season 4th before making massive strides next season. It's simply that some fans expect a hell of a lot better and are of a different opinion regarding what some see as "reasons" and they see as "excuses". Stop trying to make it something it isn't.
Or maybe people have a different opinion to you (on Ole posts, what they find acceptable/not, what they see as progress/not)?

It's a forum after all? For opinions?

I'll post what I think, you post what you think. It's all good. Chill.
 

KekiZeki

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Yeah, some opposing fans will vote to keep him, but they do so because they focus on the current form as if Solskjaer was the one to get us there. They won't focus on the project and what has been done within the club since he has taken over. A belief has returned to the club, and even though the current team is not good enough the club can still attract major players.
If you asked opposing fans was Klopp good for Liverpool after his first season most would laugh and say he's just like their previous managers. It takes time to get results.

I know our support for Solskjaer is not strong at the moment but I also say, whoever we get, impatient fans will always want him out if he didn't fix the team in less than a year.
 

dwd

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If you asked opposing fans was Klopp good for Liverpool after his first season most would laugh and say he's just like their previous managers. It takes time to get results.
Don't agree with this bit at all. Can't recall ever seeing or hearing any of their fans being unhappy with him or not being able to see a plan of action.
 

Shark

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Yeah, some opposing fans will vote to keep him, but they do so because they focus on the current form as if Solskjaer was the one to get us there. They won't focus on the project and what has been done within the club since he has taken over. A belief has returned to the club, and even though the current team is not good enough the club can still attract major players.
If you asked opposing fans was Klopp good for Liverpool after his first season most would laugh and say he's just like their previous managers. It takes time to get results.

I know our support for Solskjaer is not strong at the moment but I also say, whoever we get, impatient fans will always want him out if he didn't fix the team in less than a year.
What has Ole got to do with Klopp?

These comparisons have got to stop.
 

RedBanker

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Don't agree with this bit at all. Can't recall ever seeing or hearing any of their fans being unhappy with him or not being able to see a plan of action.
Exactly. Klopp's first 12 months he reached the final of League cup and Europa. His team scored 113 goals in that period. Win percentage around 50. 23 different players scored goals in that period. 16 players were given their debut. 20 clean sheets were kept. Four or more goals were scored 11 times. And of course the patterns and cohesion was there for all to see.
Give Ole all the time in the world but people should desist from making absurd comparisons between unequals.
 
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If you asked opposing fans was Klopp good for Liverpool after his first season most would laugh and say he's just like their previous managers. It takes time to get results.
really @KekiZeki ?

Onto Klopp’s first full season had a Premier League win-rate of 58%.

If anyone laughed and compared him to their previous managers after that win-rate, their style of play and his Dortmund history, they weren't very clued up.
 

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If Man City or Liverpool had a poll to sack their managers, would you vote keep then as a United fan? :lol:
That's different, that would be obvious.

Come on mate it's pretty obvious as to why. They don't want us to get a serious manager. Do you blame them?
Stop giving them the benefit that they have a reasonable level of intelligence, if we were to sack the Manager, whether it was Ole, Mourinho, LvG or Fred the Red it would mean we were struggling, and that's all that matters to rival supporters, or should be.
 

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Foxbatt

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really @KekiZeki ?

Onto Klopp’s first full season had a Premier League win-rate of 58%.

If anyone laughed and compared him to their previous managers after that win-rate, their style of play and his Dortmund history, they weren't very clued up.
This has to be highlighted. When Ole took over I thought it was temporary as were most people. Then after the PSG game he became permanent and everything collapsed. If he had a way and a system and kept winning matches this season even if he didn't win any trophies most people including me would be very happy.
No one knows what is going on behind the scenes so all of us see what happens in front of our eyes. In this case culled the squad and not bringing in replacements for the midfield which ever Tom, Dick and Harry(not Maguire) knew that we needed to strengthen the midfield. Yet he let go of Fellaini and Herrera without adding to the squad. Then his public statements on the squad is good enough which everyone knew was not good enough. Then going after British players with their inflated price. Not having a system in how to play and only knowing counter attacking football and not realising the importance of a set piece and finally the worst the last playing Lingard always.
His press conferences are becoming a bit of a joke as well.

Comparing him to Klopp and saying Pool fans wanted him out is pure moonshine. We all wanted Klopp. In fact Woodward was trying to sell United to him by comparing it to Disney. Klopp the most up coming manager who won the Bundesliga a couple of times and took Dotmund to the CL final and people are trying to compare him to Ole? Sheesh.
You can compare Lampard and Ole because both are very good players and Ole has more managerial experience than Lampard but at this moment in time Lampard is doing a bit better but hopefully not soon.
I am sure most of us would hold up our hands and say we were wrong if he gets us going in the right way in the right direction. We want the best for United. If it is a situation of United or Ole, I, for one would not have any hesitation is choosing United. I am not so sure of some here though.
 

90 + 5min

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really @KekiZeki ?

Onto Klopp’s first full season had a Premier League win-rate of 58%.

If anyone laughed and compared him to their previous managers after that win-rate, their style of play and his Dortmund history, they weren't very clued up.
For some fact knowledge, regardles of win procentage. Jurgen Klopp:

2015-2016 - 0 titles
2016-2017 - 0 titles
2017-2018 - 0 titles
2018-2019 - 1 Champions League
2019-2020 - 1 World Super Cup, 1 European super cup, (soon some more)

It took 4 years for Klopp to get the team right with lot of buying and selling. Something quick-fix fans should have in mind when you are asking Solskjaer to deliver right away.

This has to be highlighted. When Ole took over I thought it was temporary as were most people. Then after the PSG game he became permanent and everything collapsed. If he had a way and a system and kept winning matches this season even if he didn't win any trophies most people including me would be very happy.
No one knows what is going on behind the scenes so all of us see what happens in front of our eyes. In this case culled the squad and not bringing in replacements for the midfield which ever Tom, Dick and Harry(not Maguire) knew that we needed to strengthen the midfield. Yet he let go of Fellaini and Herrera without adding to the squad. Then his public statements on the squad is good enough which everyone knew was not good enough. Then going after British players with their inflated price. Not having a system in how to play and only knowing counter attacking football and not realising the importance of a set piece and finally the worst the last playing Lingard always.
His press conferences are becoming a bit of a joke as well.

Comparing him to Klopp and saying Pool fans wanted him out is pure moonshine. We all wanted Klopp. In fact Woodward was trying to sell United to him by comparing it to Disney. Klopp the most up coming manager who won the Bundesliga a couple of times and took Dotmund to the CL final and people are trying to compare him to Ole? Sheesh.
You can compare Lampard and Ole because both are very good players and Ole has more managerial experience than Lampard but at this moment in time Lampard is doing a bit better but hopefully not soon.
I am sure most of us would hold up our hands and say we were wrong if he gets us going in the right way in the right direction. We want the best for United. If it is a situation of United or Ole, I, for one would not have any hesitation is choosing United. I am not so sure of some here though.
No need with fake news. Herrera wanted out. He got paid a lot in PSG and something our club didn't want to give him. Stop making it out that Solskjaer didn't want him. Fellaini, when left, nobody missed him. Suddenly there are people on here that are furious with that decision even if they where most vocal to get him out. How things change.

Joke? How? You think it is better to throw players under the bus? You like when it is heated press conference? Just because he doesn't let media get what they want don't mean they are bad. What do you want to hear at press conference?

Nobody is comparing Solskjaer with Klopp. What Ole-in fans want is some kind of patience and understanding where we are and why.
 

Rhyme Animal

Modmins said "freeze" and I got numb
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Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
While non United fans, or WUMs posing as United fans continue to vote, there will be no accurate sample anyhow.
If they want to vote 'sack' let 'em, it's just a bit of harmless fun at the end of the day.
Umm I think you know fully well that non United fans are voting ‘Keep’

They love where we’re at right now with a mediocre manager at best
And you've got proof of this?
Obvious oppo WUM is obvious!