Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[laughtersassassin]

Question for the people who are Ole in.

If we drop points to either Leeds or Sheffield would that change your mind?

Surely after being knocked out of the CL inconsistency in the league cannot be tolerated.

Remember he has been here nearly two years and has claimed he has been back very well in each window so there is no reason we shouldn't be importing drastically in Oles book.

 

[Flexdegea]

Have you seen this thread? The amount of vitriol and pure bile after each dropped point, what other could it be than dislike? The reason so many want him out is simple, we have been spoiled silly by experiencing Fergie and fans cant (or wont) accept that it was not always going to be that way. Lets be real here, Ole did not exactly have a splendid CV before the job fell into his lap, but that in turn have convinced his most outspoken critics that he literally can do no good and whenever things do go our way its either luck or something/someone else doing the heavy lifting. Meanwhile, every single thing that goes badly is his fault. Like why is this thread constantly bumped during live matches where people are howling for blood if we go under? Hes not on the pitch, so unless hes put out some utterly daft line up, i dont see how a thread about a manager would be that relevant during a match

The "Fernandes was an obvious signing" is one of the latest hits. Like the feck he was, judging by this thread about half the Caf knew who he was an about half of those thought he was average. That speaks volumes about the lens hes viewed through though. If they cant even bring themselves to praise him for the best signing we've done in a decade they wont praise him for anything

When he took over the club was in a sorry state and pretty much everyone agreed that the rebuild was still ongoing. This was due to LvG and Jose failing in that regard despite spending about 700 million between them and obviously not being helped by the absolute idiots at the top of the club hierarchy. When he took over we lacked a established CB pairing, we had an ageing winger playing RB, no creative midfielder and loads of unanswered questions about who was supposed to play up top. His main task was therefore making us competitive again AND securing the long term health of the club. This is in stark contrast to Jose, whos modus operandi is come in and win silverware at any cost and despite having a net spend of 360 million euros, left the club in a worse state than it was when he arrived

Gone are much of the deadwood and all of the players we've bought under Ole (bar Cavani) have been somewhere between 21-26 so they have plenty of years left in them and many of them has not reached their best years even. This means that even if Ole was replaced tomorrow, much of the groundwork has already been done and the next guy will inherit a much healthier side than the one Ole got.

Then comes the results and performances. Before last season, there was about a 50/50 split among fans and pundits alike whether or not we would make CL qualification. We did, so most reasonable fans should be content with that. Since we signed Bruno we are also one of the (the?) best team in the PL in terms of PPG and GPG. People will laugh at this and say its a completely arbitrary starting point (the very same people had no problems leaving out his caretaker period when discussing win% last year) but i'd argue its not. Last year between Aug-Jan we could not score in a brothel because a massive lack of creativity. No creative fullbacks, no creative wingers, with Pogba injured no creative midfielders besides an ageing Mata. With Martial out for about two months as well it meant that the entire creative burden was put on Rashford and some kid fresh from the academy. Of course you will struggle for goals under those conditions. Its also a perfect illustration of what a truly good player can do with a football team and this ridiculous practice of judging managers in a vacuum of results only needs to stop because at the end of the day, they live or die based on the players available to them. All in all last season was acceptable in my opinion. We got third place and the ins and outs were good, both long term and short term

This year has been a bit of a rollecoaster, but 4 points from the top is hardly a reason to have a meltdown imo. Also consider this: We have played 11 games and so far we have faced Palace, Brighton, Spurs, Newcastle, Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton, West Brom, Soton, WHU and City. 7/11 of those teams either are in the top 8 right now or you reasonably expect them to be there (counting Arsenal here). We've not exactly had an easy start with the addition of a tough CL group as well. People point to our poor home form this year, but with no fans in there its a moot point. We are currently on a record breaking away streak, but thats a moot point as well.

When it comes to fan expectations, or rather demands, the goal posts seems to constantly move. Of course we need to improve, because we are not where we want to be yet, but in a process like this its not like you always will be on an upward trajectory and we cant view this in a vaccum. City and Liverpool set points records the past two seasons and the latter won the CL. Spurs and Chelsea have finished above us 4 times since Fergie retired and even bloody Leichester has won the league. The league is ridiculously competitive, yet the narrative among some of our fans is that everyone else is shit/overrated/past it, we have the best squad in the league and a half decent manager would have walked the league with us. Case in point: Our ex manager currently sits at the top of the table with Spurs, so maybe, just maybe, they are not a bunch of cloggers like some would have us think.

For example, Chelsea who we were neck and neck with last season have added 200 million worth of talent. Meanwhile, we fecked around all summer with Sancho and ended up with some panic buys on the last day of the window. It was obvious at the end of last season that the squad was not the finished product. Now though people claim that Ole has to make do with what we got, despite the fact that we are still a couple of key signing away from where we want to be.

Is it perfect? Far from it, but its not as bad as a lot of people would have it. Ole is far from the best manager out there and if we fail to improve from last season, i'd want him gone to, but the hysterical doom mongering and downright disrespectful way hes being treated by some fans is just baffling. Judging by this thread, these are not "glass half full" types, but rather "this glass is full of cat vomit and i am going to yell about it all day".

As someone said Nailed it

 

[Leftback99]

Question for the people who are Ole in.

If we drop points to either Leeds or Sheffield would that change your mind?

Surely after being knocked out of the CL inconsistency in the league cannot be tolerated.

Remember he has been here nearly two years and has claimed he has been back very well in each window so there is no reason we shouldn't be importing drastically in Oles book.

Maybe if we drop points in both. We're not going to win every game. Bookies give us around a 40% chance of winning both. We'll still drop points under the next guy in these kind of games, it will be interesting to see who gets all the blame here then.

 

[anant]

53% of the forum expected a City win: https://www.redcafe.net/matches/manchester-united-vs-manchester-city.363/
We get a draw and now we're criticizing Ole for that. People really need to give their heads a wobble if they think that any team, let alone us, is going to be winning close to every game

 

[wolvored]

I can. Because i watched them first 11 games.
But I love the fact how you both ignore the questions about positive fighting energy, or moan ourself into a festive period of important games. The funny part, and somewhat depressing is that a lot of posters think it’s for the best for the club. Especially all the sack him at halftime posts. Truly makes me proud to be a Man Utd fan!

I aint ignored nothing just pointing out a fact. I get your an ole in to the bitter end, and I wasnt having a go at you for it. Just pointing out the fact that you cant accuse a team who won 32 games and only lost 3 scoring 85 and only letting in 33 goals as grinding out results.

 

[el3mel]

Yeah, well, I honestly try not use those words but I am at a stage where he's genuinely pissing me off. I fee like it's a chore to watch my football club even though I can clearly see we have a very, very good squad.

The other issue with being constructive is that OGS gets so much more leeway than our previous managers that he'll be allowed to keep failing for so much longer than is acceptable.



Christ, that just goes to show the level of ambition of this 'football' club is dead.

Dortmund are not even meant to be close to our level, yet they are still in the CL and 'only' 5 points off the top. We are OUT of the CL and 4 points off the top, having been close to being double-digits off with totally dire performances.

This is why I think it's literally a sunk cost keeping this guy in charge but it seems our club's standards have been Brexited. As long as we 'survive' and make top 4 once every other year, we're all good.

What do you expect? We are the only club in the world who thinks sacking manager is a very tough task. Other clubs have no problem changing managers but for United it needs to be an absolute disaster just to start thinking about changing them.

 

[Mainoldo]

53% of the forum expected a City win: https://www.redcafe.net/matches/manchester-united-vs-manchester-city.363/
We get a draw and now we're criticizing Ole for that. People really need to give their heads a wobble if they think that any team, let alone us, is going to be winning close to every game

If your just going to judge things on a results based opinion maybe you shouldn’t have a say in this debate.

It’s abit over complicated for you.

 

[pocco]

53% of the forum expected a City win: https://www.redcafe.net/matches/manchester-united-vs-manchester-city.363/
We get a draw and now we're criticizing Ole for that. People really need to give their heads a wobble if they think that any team, let alone us, is going to be winning close to every game

Football isn't played on paper, based on stats or historical data. On the day, we could easily have beat them. That's all that matters.

I predicted us to win 2-1. I expected us to at least try to attack and thought, if we did, we'd catch their defence out on the break. Go figure.

 

[Giggsyking]

Yeah i was. Because i had hardly heard of him and at the time we also talking about signing Haaland who was one of the hottest prospects around.

I am not employed by Man Utd though and i cant stand transfer muppetry. That bolded part is an outrageous claim

I was just using your logic. Anyhow, judging fans and their opinions on how they reacted to the Bruno signing is not right. We judge Ole on his form as a manager. He has been here for 2 fecking years, and yet his team can only score 3 goals in home after one third of the league season. Can you imagine your reaction if any other manager could not manage to score more than 3 goals at home and we are in the middle of december? I can't believe I even have to talk about that.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Maybe if we drop points in both. We're not going to win every game. Bookies give us around a 40% chance of winning both. We'll still drop points under the next guy in these kind of games, it will be interesting to see who gets all the blame here then.

And that is where it is ridiculous. We have just been knocked out of the CL. Yet as long as he wins about 1 every 2 to 3 games people are happy.

Madness. Club has no ambition or pride.

 

[Jacko21]

Feck it, I don't care if we lost 6-0 but grow some balls and show some courage.

I mean, you would've cared let's be honest.

 

[90 + 5min]

Question for the people who are Ole in.

If we drop points to either Leeds or Sheffield would that change your mind?

Surely after being knocked out of the CL inconsistency in the league cannot be tolerated.

Remember he has been here nearly two years and has claimed he has been back very well in each window so there is no reason we shouldn't be importing drastically in Oles book.

Why are we looking from game to game and not looking at whole picture? If we drop points we would be dissapointed. But looking no further then lenght of your step makes people blind for what is further ahead.

It is like asking, would 3 points in both games change your minds? Or if we drop points but outshot opponents by 50-2 in each game, would that change your mind about attacking tactics?

Or if a new manager came, would you judge him om next game? Lose - manager out, draw -manager out, win - manager in.

 

[dev1l]

Have you seen this thread? The amount of vitriol and pure bile after each dropped point, what other could it be than dislike? The reason so many want him out is simple, we have been spoiled silly by experiencing Fergie and fans cant (or wont) accept that it was not always going to be that way. Lets be real here, Ole did not exactly have a splendid CV before the job fell into his lap, but that in turn have convinced his most outspoken critics that he literally can do no good and whenever things do go our way its either luck or something/someone else doing the heavy lifting. Meanwhile, every single thing that goes badly is his fault. Like why is this thread constantly bumped during live matches where people are howling for blood if we go under? Hes not on the pitch, so unless hes put out some utterly daft line up, i dont see how a thread about a manager would be that relevant during a match

The "Fernandes was an obvious signing" is one of the latest hits. Like the feck he was, judging by this thread about half the Caf knew who he was an about half of those thought he was average. That speaks volumes about the lens hes viewed through though. If they cant even bring themselves to praise him for the best signing we've done in a decade they wont praise him for anything

When he took over the club was in a sorry state and pretty much everyone agreed that the rebuild was still ongoing. This was due to LvG and Jose failing in that regard despite spending about 700 million between them and obviously not being helped by the absolute idiots at the top of the club hierarchy. When he took over we lacked a established CB pairing, we had an ageing winger playing RB, no creative midfielder and loads of unanswered questions about who was supposed to play up top. His main task was therefore making us competitive again AND securing the long term health of the club. This is in stark contrast to Jose, whos modus operandi is come in and win silverware at any cost and despite having a net spend of 360 million euros, left the club in a worse state than it was when he arrived

Gone are much of the deadwood and all of the players we've bought under Ole (bar Cavani) have been somewhere between 21-26 so they have plenty of years left in them and many of them has not reached their best years even. This means that even if Ole was replaced tomorrow, much of the groundwork has already been done and the next guy will inherit a much healthier side than the one Ole got.

Then comes the results and performances. Before last season, there was about a 50/50 split among fans and pundits alike whether or not we would make CL qualification. We did, so most reasonable fans should be content with that. Since we signed Bruno we are also one of the (the?) best team in the PL in terms of PPG and GPG. People will laugh at this and say its a completely arbitrary starting point (the very same people had no problems leaving out his caretaker period when discussing win% last year) but i'd argue its not. Last year between Aug-Jan we could not score in a brothel because a massive lack of creativity. No creative fullbacks, no creative wingers, with Pogba injured no creative midfielders besides an ageing Mata. With Martial out for about two months as well it meant that the entire creative burden was put on Rashford and some kid fresh from the academy. Of course you will struggle for goals under those conditions. Its also a perfect illustration of what a truly good player can do with a football team and this ridiculous practice of judging managers in a vacuum of results only needs to stop because at the end of the day, they live or die based on the players available to them. All in all last season was acceptable in my opinion. We got third place and the ins and outs were good, both long term and short term

This year has been a bit of a rollecoaster, but 4 points from the top is hardly a reason to have a meltdown imo. Also consider this: We have played 11 games and so far we have faced Palace, Brighton, Spurs, Newcastle, Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton, West Brom, Soton, WHU and City. 7/11 of those teams either are in the top 8 right now or you reasonably expect them to be there (counting Arsenal here). We've not exactly had an easy start with the addition of a tough CL group as well. People point to our poor home form this year, but with no fans in there its a moot point. We are currently on a record breaking away streak, but thats a moot point as well.

When it comes to fan expectations, or rather demands, the goal posts seems to constantly move. Of course we need to improve, because we are not where we want to be yet, but in a process like this its not like you always will be on an upward trajectory and we cant view this in a vaccum. City and Liverpool set points records the past two seasons and the latter won the CL. Spurs and Chelsea have finished above us 4 times since Fergie retired and even bloody Leichester has won the league. The league is ridiculously competitive, yet the narrative among some of our fans is that everyone else is shit/overrated/past it, we have the best squad in the league and a half decent manager would have walked the league with us. Case in point: Our ex manager currently sits at the top of the table with Spurs, so maybe, just maybe, they are not a bunch of cloggers like some would have us think.

For example, Chelsea who we were neck and neck with last season have added 200 million worth of talent. Meanwhile, we fecked around all summer with Sancho and ended up with some panic buys on the last day of the window. It was obvious at the end of last season that the squad was not the finished product. Now though people claim that Ole has to make do with what we got, despite the fact that we are still a couple of key signing away from where we want to be.

Is it perfect? Far from it, but its not as bad as a lot of people would have it. Ole is far from the best manager out there and if we fail to improve from last season, i'd want him gone to, but the hysterical doom mongering and downright disrespectful way hes being treated by some fans is just baffling. Judging by this thread, these are not "glass half full" types, but rather "this glass is full of cat vomit and i am going to yell about it all day".

Brilliant post.

 

[Giggsyking]

He’s just another lemming. Writing paragraphs of sentimental nonsense like he’s Shakespeare. I mean since when Fergie or no Fergie was it acceptable for a Manchester United team to be mediocre.

Do Real and Barca fans get called spoilt so and so’s when they are unhappy with lack of success? You would think we supported Man City .

I’m sure he probably didn’t want Bruno how can you expect someone that backs Ole to actually know what’s good for the club.

I dont have a problem with people defending the players, managers they love. But there must be a point when you have to hold them accountable. What is the bar for him to be sacked? We are not spoiled brats, we are fans of the biggest club in England and one of the biggest in the World up there with Madrid and Barcelona. How on earth do we accept mediocrity? I understand you have to give time for the manager to implement his plans, but what did Ole have in his bagage to be granted the job in the first place? He was a failed premier league manager and only won trophies in a sunday league competition. He has been here for 2 years now. If he show no sign for competeing for the league, should be catapulted out of the club (imo should not even given the job in the first place).

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Question for the people who are Ole in.

If we drop points to either Leeds or Sheffield would that change your mind?

Surely after being knocked out of the CL inconsistency in the league cannot be tolerated.

Remember he has been here nearly two years and has claimed he has been back very well in each window so there is no reason we shouldn't be importing drastically in Oles book.

Give him till the end of December. Only way he'd be sacked within those two games is if we were humiliated

 

[hobbers]

Yes, it wasnt a great performance but was the kind of performance Fergie had often enough in these types of games.

The context couldnt be more different.

Under Fergie we were generally not failing to score any goals from open play in 5 home games in a row. We were not floundering in the table and City actually had a stronger team than we did towards the end of SAF’s reign.

Fergie would be ashamed of the utterly insipid performances this season, yesterday very much included.

 

[anant]

If your just going to judge things on a results based opinion maybe you shouldn’t have a say in this debate.

It’s abit over complicated for you.

Of all people it's you who's saying that.

If you really regard a draw against City as a bad result, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't ever be happy with any manager.

 

[Giggsy13]

Ole has made counter-attacking a strength, no doubt. My major gripe about yesterday was not how we played defensively, but that we never upped the tempo. In March, that’s exactly what we did, and City simply making one defensive change should not have negated our attacking play, especially with Rashford and Greenwood as our front two, a more skilful partnership than the Martial-James on which hammered City in March. Why not some more frequent one touch passing and movement? We showed we were capable of it when AWB and McT, two players said to be poor on the ball, completely destroyed City’s press in the first half.

Fair points but we can’t compare a derby from last year since good managers adapt and it’s always going to be a different game. Pep knows our strengths and tried to counter that by playing two defensive DMs. I think the up tempo play was there from us in the 1st half but slowed in the 2nd half when city began pressing more and taking risks. At that point I would’ve taken off McT and Rashford for VDB and Martial. VDB offers more passing range and is more likely to hit a more accurate long ball, which is the type of threat we needed when city began committing more players forward. That would be my only real criticism of Ole and the coaching staff.

I know it’s hard to find positives after a frustrating week but at least we were more comfortable and organized at the back. The 4-4-2 Diamond should be the preferred formation moving forward until we are able to get more established wingers into the team.

 

[anant]

Football isn't played on paper, based on stats or historical data. On the day, we could easily have beat them. That's all that matters.

I predicted us to win 2-1. I expected us to at least try to attack and thought, if we did, we'd catch their defence out on the break. Go figure.

Catch them on the break? How?

It was just their front 4 and Cancelo who even entered our half. They played with extreme caution, and we valued a CS more in order to boost our defender's confidence

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Yeah, well, I honestly try not use those words but I am at a stage where he's genuinely pissing me off. I fee like it's a chore to watch my football club even though I can clearly see we have a very, very good squad.

The other issue with being constructive is that OGS gets so much more leeway than our previous managers that he'll be allowed to keep failing for so much longer than is acceptable.

He does things that piss me off too (the delayed subs for example, persisting with certain players regardless of form) and I wish he'd learn, for the sake of the club not necessarily to save his job.

But I try to balance some of the other things... clearing out some players that definitely needed moving on, playing a couple of younger players (though people can make a case they were too good to be ignored), doing well in some of the bigger games last season.. City, Liverpool.

It's far from perfect, he's had longer than some (though Moyes shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near us in the first place) but there's a part of me that thinks the board are using Ole to do the hard work ahead of someone else. I don't think the clubs transfer policy helps as a top Def Mid and a wide player would have made a massive difference to this team defensively and offensively - other clubs have seen the gaps and sorted them. I think he'll get to the end of the season then be judged on how we end up. If no trophy/outside top.4, I think he'll be gone.

 

[Greck]

He doesn't even need to say anything about United DNA or attacking football now. The club supports him as do majority of the fanbase.

Fans aren't blind, we have seen conservative football for a long time under him. We have seen how he approaches any big game. Just grow some balls and say this is his style and vision for the team.

Is this true?

 

[laughtersassassin]

Why are we looking from game to game and not looking at whole picture? If we drop points we would be dissapointed. But looking no further then lenght of your step makes people blind for what is further ahead.

It is like asking, would 3 points in both games change your minds? Or if we drop points but outshot opponents by 50-2 in each game, would that change your mind about attacking tactics?

Or if a new manager came, would you judge him om next game? Lose - manager out, draw -manager out, win - manager in.

It is looking at the whole picture. We are out of the CL due to incompetence so now it can't be tolerated in the PL.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

If you really regard a draw against City as a bad result, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't ever be happy with any manager.

Context innit?

Still in CL, 2nd in table, good result.

8th in table, dumped out of CL group, and don’t even try to win to catch up on PL leaders. That’s not quite the same.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Give him till the end of December. Only way he'd be sacked within those two games is if we were humiliated

Fair, for me I just can't tolerate crap results and conceeding first every game anymore now that his incompetence got us knocked out of the CL.

It really was amateur hour.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I was just using your logic. Anyhow, judging fans and their opinions on how they reacted to the Bruno signing is not right. We judge Ole on his form as a manager. He has been here for 2 fecking years, and yet his team can only score 3 goals in home after one third of the league season. Can you imagine your reaction if any other manager could not manage to score more than 3 goals at home and we are in the middle of december? I can't believe I even have to talk about that.

Now that is a depressing stat. We're on track to break City's record of only 10 league goals scored at home in a season.

 

[RashyForPM]

Fair points but we can’t compare a derby from last year since good managers adapt and it’s always going to be a different game. Pep knows our strengths and tried to counter that by playing two defensive DMs. I think the up tempo play was there from us in the 1st half but slowed in the 2nd half when city began pressing more and taking risks. At that point I would’ve taken off McT and Rashford for VDB and Martial. VDB offers more passing range and is more likely to hit a more accurate long ball, which is the type of threat we needed when city began committing more players forward. That would be my only real criticism of Ole and the coaching staff.

I know it’s hard to find positives after a frustrating week but at least we were more comfortable and organized at the back. The 4-4-2 Diamond should be the preferred formation moving forward until we are able to get more established wingers into the team.

Actually agree totally with this post. Managers use subs to send signals, and VdB for McT would have changed the team’s mentality into a more attacking one. Also agree with 4-4-2 diamond, but I wouldn’t play it now because as yesterday showed, we have zero width on the right flank as Greenwood’s natural position is striker so he will always come inside and at times, AWB genuinely doesn’t resemble a professional RB with his complete refusal to overlap and shocking build-up play. This is why I’ve constantly defended the Trippier link, because he will at least offer us something going forward on the right, and will let us play the diamond.

 

[GiddyUp]

Where have I ever said Solskjaer is big manager? I say if there is progress, time should be given. One or two setbacks dosen’t change my mind. ManCity game wasn’t even a setback. Both teams came to game to not lose. Both teams got points. After going out against Leipzig we needed to come out with something. And got that. People need to relax.

Holy shit dude, you literally just said it your post I replied to.

 

[Leftback99]

And that is where it is ridiculous. We have just been knocked out of the CL. Yet as long as he wins about 1 every 2 to 3 games people are happy.

Madness. Club has no ambition or pride.

Fair enough, only winning every game is good enough. I'll remind you of your standard when the next manager is in.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Fair enough, only winning every game is good enough. I'll remind you of your standard when the next manager is in.

Please do. I have nothing personal against Ole. Would have wanted nothing more for him to be a very good manager.

But he isn't. He has been here 2 years and we aren't doing very well and he isn't pulling up many trees.

No one expects to win every game and the comments that we do is ridiculous because we are the most inconsistent team ever. How he managed to mismanage those last few CL games so badly was a joke. But according to this win here us being knocked out of that shouldn't result in higher expectations in the league?

Nonsense. Simple fact is he isn't doing good enough all things considered. How low is everyone's standards, there seems to be an answer for why every failing is acceptable.

 

[MancunianAngels]

Well if we don't win our next two games it's a disgrace that should not be tolerated.

At a certain point it's just enough

Well yes but fine margins etc

Fergie's first few years werre

The context couldnt be more different.

Under Fergie we were generally not failing to score any goals from open play in 5 home games in a row. We were not floundering in the table and City actually had a stronger team than we did towards the end of SAF’s reign.

Fergie would be ashamed of the utterly insipid performances this season, yesterday very much included.

My issue is making long term decisions based on last night.

It's a decent point in isolation and may prove to be a better one if results go our way in the next few weeks.

Ultimately, no manager does that well under Woodward so sacking Ole and replacing him with say Pochettino gets us an immediate upturn but doesn't solve the long term problem within the club.

 

[90 + 5min]

Holy shit dude, you literally just said it your post I replied to.

Please quote me where I said "Solskjaer is a big manager".

 

[laughtersassassin]

Well yes but fine margins etc

Fergie's first few years werre

My issue is making long term decisions based on last night.

It's a decent point in isolation and may prove to be a better one if results go our way in the next few weeks.

Ultimately, no manager does that well under Woodward so sacking Ole and replacing him with say Pochettino gets us an immediate upturn but doesn't solve the long term problem within the club.

.
Fergie was a proven manager in a different era.

Ole was a completely unproven maybe even bad manager in this era. Ole got the job an insane run. He then proceeded to have a run completely opposite to it where by if he hadn't of been already given the contract there is every chance he wouldn't have got the job.

The club is run by fools at the end of the day.

 

[Leftback99]

Please do. I have nothing personal against Ole. Would have wanted nothing more for him to be a very good manager.

But he isn't. He has been here 2 years and we aren't doing very well and he isn't pulling up many trees.

No one expects to win every game and the comments that we do is ridiculous because we are the most inconsistent team ever. How he managed to mismanage those last few CL games so badly was a joke. But according to this win here us being knocked out of that shouldn't result in higher expectations in the league?

Nonsense. Simple fact is he isn't doing good enough all things considered. How low is everyone's standards, there seems to be an answer for why every failing is acceptable.

Why would being knocked out of the CL mean we expect a higher standard in the league? We're not a better team for it are we?

We all want to win every game, some of us realise it's not going to happen regardless of manager just like it didn't under our best.

I'll judge those two games on what happens, we could be by far the better team but lose both or get outplayed and win both. It's not as simple as lose either, sack the manager.

 

[GiddyUp]

Please quote me where I said "Solskjaer is a big manager".

Oh ffs. Done pal. Have a good day.

 

[Kajus]

Those of you who want him sacked immediately, what exactly does this achieve and who do you get instead? I can understand wanting to look at managers with better record/potential to take over in the off-season, but what do you achieve by sacking him tomorrow? The players like him, it would just hurt team morale and would begin yet another rebuild. No top manager is currently available and the likes of Nagelsmann/Rose won’t quit their teams mid-season, so what exactly do you achieve by having Carrick or Phelan take over until the end of the season?

 

[bond19821982]

Have you seen this thread? The amount of vitriol and pure bile after each dropped point, what other could it be than dislike? The reason so many want him out is simple, we have been spoiled silly by experiencing Fergie and fans cant (or wont) accept that it was not always going to be that way. Lets be real here, Ole did not exactly have a splendid CV before the job fell into his lap, but that in turn have convinced his most outspoken critics that he literally can do no good and whenever things do go our way its either luck or something/someone else doing the heavy lifting. Meanwhile, every single thing that goes badly is his fault. Like why is this thread constantly bumped during live matches where people are howling for blood if we go under? Hes not on the pitch, so unless hes put out some utterly daft line up, i dont see how a thread about a manager would be that relevant during a match

The "Fernandes was an obvious signing" is one of the latest hits. Like the feck he was, judging by this thread about half the Caf knew who he was an about half of those thought he was average. That speaks volumes about the lens hes viewed through though. If they cant even bring themselves to praise him for the best signing we've done in a decade they wont praise him for anything

When he took over the club was in a sorry state and pretty much everyone agreed that the rebuild was still ongoing. This was due to LvG and Jose failing in that regard despite spending about 700 million between them and obviously not being helped by the absolute idiots at the top of the club hierarchy. When he took over we lacked a established CB pairing, we had an ageing winger playing RB, no creative midfielder and loads of unanswered questions about who was supposed to play up top. His main task was therefore making us competitive again AND securing the long term health of the club. This is in stark contrast to Jose, whos modus operandi is come in and win silverware at any cost and despite having a net spend of 360 million euros, left the club in a worse state than it was when he arrived

Gone are much of the deadwood and all of the players we've bought under Ole (bar Cavani) have been somewhere between 21-26 so they have plenty of years left in them and many of them has not reached their best years even. This means that even if Ole was replaced tomorrow, much of the groundwork has already been done and the next guy will inherit a much healthier side than the one Ole got.

Then comes the results and performances. Before last season, there was about a 50/50 split among fans and pundits alike whether or not we would make CL qualification. We did, so most reasonable fans should be content with that. Since we signed Bruno we are also one of the (the?) best team in the PL in terms of PPG and GPG. People will laugh at this and say its a completely arbitrary starting point (the very same people had no problems leaving out his caretaker period when discussing win% last year) but i'd argue its not. Last year between Aug-Jan we could not score in a brothel because a massive lack of creativity. No creative fullbacks, no creative wingers, with Pogba injured no creative midfielders besides an ageing Mata. With Martial out for about two months as well it meant that the entire creative burden was put on Rashford and some kid fresh from the academy. Of course you will struggle for goals under those conditions. Its also a perfect illustration of what a truly good player can do with a football team and this ridiculous practice of judging managers in a vacuum of results only needs to stop because at the end of the day, they live or die based on the players available to them. All in all last season was acceptable in my opinion. We got third place and the ins and outs were good, both long term and short term

This year has been a bit of a rollecoaster, but 4 points from the top is hardly a reason to have a meltdown imo. Also consider this: We have played 11 games and so far we have faced Palace, Brighton, Spurs, Newcastle, Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton, West Brom, Soton, WHU and City. 7/11 of those teams either are in the top 8 right now or you reasonably expect them to be there (counting Arsenal here). We've not exactly had an easy start with the addition of a tough CL group as well. People point to our poor home form this year, but with no fans in there its a moot point. We are currently on a record breaking away streak, but thats a moot point as well.

When it comes to fan expectations, or rather demands, the goal posts seems to constantly move. Of course we need to improve, because we are not where we want to be yet, but in a process like this its not like you always will be on an upward trajectory and we cant view this in a vaccum. City and Liverpool set points records the past two seasons and the latter won the CL. Spurs and Chelsea have finished above us 4 times since Fergie retired and even bloody Leichester has won the league. The league is ridiculously competitive, yet the narrative among some of our fans is that everyone else is shit/overrated/past it, we have the best squad in the league and a half decent manager would have walked the league with us. Case in point: Our ex manager currently sits at the top of the table with Spurs, so maybe, just maybe, they are not a bunch of cloggers like some would have us think.

For example, Chelsea who we were neck and neck with last season have added 200 million worth of talent. Meanwhile, we fecked around all summer with Sancho and ended up with some panic buys on the last day of the window. It was obvious at the end of last season that the squad was not the finished product. Now though people claim that Ole has to make do with what we got, despite the fact that we are still a couple of key signing away from where we want to be.

Is it perfect? Far from it, but its not as bad as a lot of people would have it. Ole is far from the best manager out there and if we fail to improve from last season, i'd want him gone to, but the hysterical doom mongering and downright disrespectful way hes being treated by some fans is just baffling. Judging by this thread, these are not "glass half full" types, but rather "this glass is full of cat vomit and i am going to yell about it all day".

Spend 150m on Maguire, AWB, James and you call it as a slow and smart rebuild - seriously?. State of the excuses .

 

[90 + 5min]

Oh ffs. Done pal. Have a good day.

Haha. Well, thats what the answer is when people lie and when you ask them to prove it they cant. Have I nice day.

 

[Bobcat]

I was just using your logic. Anyhow, judging fans and their opinions on how they reacted to the Bruno signing is not right. We judge Ole on his form as a manager. He has been here for 2 fecking years, and yet his team can only score 3 goals in home after one third of the league season. Can you imagine your reaction if any other manager could not manage to score more than 3 goals at home and we are in the middle of december? I can't believe I even have to talk about that.

Again home/away form right now us pointless since there are no fans in the stadium. Our away form is brilliant, but it does not really matter either as we might as well have played all games on neutral ground

 

[el3mel]

Those of you who want him sacked immediately, what exactly does this achieve and who do you get instead? I can understand wanting to look at managers with better record/potential to take over in the off-season, but what do you achieve by sacking him tomorrow? The players like him, it would just hurt team morale and would begin yet another rebuild. No top manager is currently available and the likes of Nagelsmann/Rose won’t quit their teams mid-season, so what exactly do you achieve by having Carrick or Phelan take over until the end of the season?

What's with the notion about "beginning yet another rebuild" ? No one ever told me each new manager should rebuild the team he gets from the scratch.

The squad is good enough to challenge for big things and is just missing one or two big names at most. Next manager isn't going to rebuild anything from scratch. It's the point of squeezing more from the current team.

 

[Kajus]

What's with the notion about "beginning yet another rebuild" ? No one ever told me each new manager should rebuild the team he gets from the scratch.

The squad is good enough to challenge for big things and is just missing one or two big names at most. Next manager isn't going to rebuild anything from scratch. It's the point of squeezing more from the current team.

So who do you get in after sacking Ole tomorrow that is going to win us the league this season?