Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Ludens the Red]

I don’t think Ole is a tactical genius and I don’t think he’s the one to take us back to the top. He’s obviously not comfortable on camera or in interviews at this level. He does look uncomfortable and I feel bad for him. But the absolute worst thing about any of this is the nastiness and vehemence of our so called supporters towards him. The values that I always believed were core at United seem long gone when I read through this forum, or listen to the rage from the terraces. United we stand…? No, divided, and we fall. And every other club is laughing at us. Not because we aren’t in the top 4, but because we are in such a fecking mess, knives out and moaning left right and centre about everything.

The wolves fans to my right tonight were singing “football in a library” and “Mourinhos right, your fans are sh*te” and they were absolutely bang on. Sitting in the car park afterwards listening to radio5, and a wolves fan calls Chris Sutton. All he has to say is how bad the Utd supporters were, how we don’t need a new manager, or new players…. “how about try supporting your team”, he said….

Honestly, you must be living in a bubble. An actual bubble.
I think our fans are actually very very chilled and patient and quite forgiving compared to a lot of other clubs. Clubs that we dwarf in terms of size.

Have you watched any Arsenal home game over the last few years that they haven’t won? The fans absolutely batter the players, manager etc. Booing their players into crying. Did you see what they did to Arsene Wenger?

There was a city fan in here the other day slagging off their fans because they become stroppy and whiney if they’re not winning 15 mins into a game.

Chelsea were 3rd last season but booing and actively asking for Sarri to be sacked during games .

Don’t get me started on Everton fans.
I can’t even imagine what Real Madrid or Barcelona fans would be doing if they were experiencing what United fans currently are. There’d be Riots and murders on the pitch.

We’re Manchester United and we have won 9 out of our last 30 league games. Let that sink in. Read it out loud to yourself.
9 wins in 30
9 wins in 30..... Manchester United. Wanna know how many games Liverpool have won in that time? 28, they’ve won 28 games, now as unprecedented as that is, we’ve had to sit and watch our greatest rivals do that, on top of the absolutely garbage football on display on a weekly basis and you think our fans have been overreacting?

Unbelievable ....

I think our game going fans deserve medals for the shit they watch and seemingly just accept and move on with.

 

[bdspeedy]

Well it took Liverpool 9 goes to find the right manager to bring them back to the title. So the faster we can tick the duds off the faster we'll get back to it as well.

And please remind all of us here in the caf how many years that took and how many prem titles they've won so far.

 

[Arka_BleedingRed]

Ah. Has-beens. As opposed to never was's like Poch and all those others who have been suggested over the years? Most of whom haven't been thought of or heard of in years. I honestly couldn't care any less at this point. Go ahead and bring in number five. I'm sure that as Beck said, "things are gonna change. I can feel it." When we've tried EVERYTHING and gone backward, it just seems like we should look at changing the parts of the team that we KNOW are defective but haven't upgraded or replaced. The F-ING SYSTEM IS BROKE and we keep wanting to change the same ancillary (obviously the manager is one of the most important parts) part over and over and over,..... Something about the definition of insanity? ....... did someone say that????

Tell me which manager after managing United has had any semblance of success?

Moyes is a nomad now, moving from one sh!t club to another, LVG has retired from coaching, Mourinho has been failing before and after United, he is no longer the Mourinho he was(hell, I wouldn't want Peak Mourinho for us, the ultimate underdog manager, the best one but still an underdog), and well, Ole is Ole, meant to be an interim while we waited for a better one, completely inept and now at a position way beyond his current level.

As someone pointed out, we have not appointed a progressive, proactive manager who is on the rise, and that buck falls onto the equally inept board. But, why would that stop us from going after the likes of Poch, Nagelsmann, Marco Rose, even Chris Wilder or Nuno Santo, rather than sticking with Ole, who keeps doing the same things over and over again and fails miserably, because he doesn't know any other way. That, my friend is what I would call, Insanity.

 

[SmashedHombre]

I think he has the right vision for the club and could build a good team, I just don't think he has the ability to do much with it. Maybe he would be more suited in a DoF role or something.

Just so fed up of seeing bland, directionless, reactive football.

 

[passing-wind]

Solskjaer being absolutely useless has little to do with the quality of the team, it's that he's not getting enough out of the players who have the propensity to deliver more. In 25 games W9 L8 D8 ? How can any sane person think that Ole will still be in the job at the end of the season with no turn around.

 

[bdspeedy]

So you don't disagree that they were has-beens then? Good to note..
Not at all what I said.

If Poch is a never was, what is Ole?
I don't think Ole should be our manager but he isn't the most detrimental aspect of the organization. A fish rots from the head down.

The problem with you guys ignoring Ole's failings and blaming Woodward/the Glazers - is you think us who are against Ole think he's the only problem.
You guys? You mean us fat old Yanks?

He's not. There's more than 1 problem at this club. But that doesn't mean that you just stop trying and let it play out. You'd rather Ole stay here for 10 years and continue our decline? What good does that do?
I don't think Ole should remain coach for 1 day after a top to bottom overhaul of the team commences.

We tried everything? Did we? We hired every manager possible and they all failed? No we didn't.
That's the spirit. Hire EVERY possible manager. We'll make top 4 by 2258.

Fact remains, we never hired a proactive, progressive manager on the rise. And even if we did and he also failed, that doesn't mean you stop trying ffs. You keep going until you hire the right guy. Not sit around waiting for a miracle.
The miracle would be our board actually thinking about the fans instead of using our team as an ATM for their personal enrichment.

Guess who we've gone backwards under the most? Hint: It's our current manager.
No argument from me on this.

And guess who else is defective(arguably more defective than the Glazers/Woodward)? Hint: It's our current manager.
Again. No argument from me. He's like a Swiss Army Knife. Their personal human shield, toady, highly paid scapegoat, fall guy.

I'm through with this line of argument. We disagree on our main problem and the solution. C'est la vie.

 

[Mainoldo]

The constant during this malaise has been Woodward and his owners. We've had: SAF's choice -- Moyes, two of the best managers in history and a club legend but some how things will improve if we keep bringing in new managers every year or two. MAYBE we need to replace ALL of those who are completely out of their depth. Starting at the top and working through the entire club. We probably have 75 percent of what we need, but if anyone thinks that Poch, Allegri, Favre or..... whomever... will take us back to the top level while these carnival barkers continue to run the team into the ground, the past 6 years would suggest otherwise.

Thanks but I repeat. What actual things would prevent the new manager from performing?

Except for hocus pocus.

 

[humdinger]

Wow so much negativity here. All of you asking for him sacked. Come up with what he could have done differently with 3 of our best players out against a solid top 6 team?

Yesterday was not a one off. We’ve been terrible for months.

 

[hmchan]

Tell me which manager after managing United has had any semblance of success?

Moyes is a nomad now, moving from one sh!t club to another, LVG has retired from coaching, Mourinho has been failing before and after United, he is no longer the Mourinho he was(hell, I wouldn't want Peak Mourinho for us, the ultimate underdog manager, the best one but still an underdog), and well, Ole is Ole, meant to be an interim while we waited for a better one, completely inept and now at a position way beyond his current level.

As someone pointed out, we have not appointed a progressive, proactive manager who is on the rise, and that buck falls onto the equally inept board. But, why would that stop us from going after the likes of Poch, Nagelsmann, Marco Rose, even Chris Wilder or Nuno Santo, rather than sticking with Ole, who keeps doing the same things over and over again and fails miserably, because he doesn't know any other way. That, my friend is what I would call, Insanity.

Be realistic, would a progressive, proactive manager who is on the rise want to come to United?

United are never as attractive as we may have thought, to both managers and players. When Sir Alex retired in 2013, he reached out to several leading managers at that time (Pep was his 1st choice), but none of them agreed to take over, and we ended up with the 6th choice. The quality and the attractiveness of the team have kept dropping since then and I don't see how this team can attract talents (both managers and players) anymore.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Honestly, you must be living in a bubble. An actual bubble.
I think our fans are actually very very chilled and patient and quite forgiving compared to a lot of other clubs. Clubs that we dwarf in terms of size.

Have you watched any Arsenal home game over the last few years that they haven’t won? The fans absolutely batter the players, manager etc. Booing their players into crying. Did you see what they did to Arsene Wenger?

There was a city fan in here the other day slagging off their fans because they become stroppy and whiney if they’re not winning 15 mins into a game.

Chelsea were 3rd last season but booing and actively asking for Sarri to be sacked during games .

Don’t get me started on Everton fans.
I can’t even imagine what Real Madrid or Barcelona fans would be doing if they were experiencing what United fans currently are. There’d be Riots and murders on the pitch.

We’re Manchester United and we have won 9 out of our last 30 league games. Let that sink in. Read it out loud to yourself.
9 wins in 30
9 wins in 30..... Manchester United. Wanna know how many games Liverpool have won in that time? 28, they’ve won 28 games, now as unprecedented as that is, we’ve had to sit and watch our greatest rivals do that, on top of the absolutely garbage football on display on a weekly basis and you think our fans have been overreacting?

Unbelievable ....

I think our game going fans deserve medals for the shit they watch and seemingly just accept and move on with.

Great post.

9 in 30... feck me

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Be realistic, would a progressive, proactive manager who is on the rise want to come to United?

Have you seen how much transfer money we give our managers? How much patience we show them? How much power we give them? And how much money we pay them?

The short answer is yes.

 

[kps88]

Thanks but I repeat. What actual things would prevent the new manager from performing?

Except for hocus pocus.

Fans calling for him to be sacked when things inevitably take time.

 

[Mockney]

Wow so much negativity here. All of you asking for him sacked. Come up with what he could have done differently with 3 of our best players out against a solid top 6 team?

Okay. GIve me £7m a year first, though?

Sure, the Challenger shuttle exploded..: but you tell me 3 things about practical rocket science that you could’ve done differently!?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Fans calling for him to be sacked when things inevitably take time.

Quick question @kps88, which other club/manager in the past 3 decades have slumped to 9 wins in 30 league games only to then prove it inevitably takes time by becoming a success later

A couple of examples might make me feel better on this shitty Sunday morning.

 

[Judas]

You can tell some people stick up for him because they've been misguided into thinking its the "right" thing to do as a Utd supporter, because the arguments they come up with are laughable.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Fans calling for him to be sacked when things inevitably take time.

They have been singing his name for the last year. That definitely hasn't helped.

 

[Adisa]

Just realised under him, transfers have gulped £200m. Feels like yesterday he signed. We can't keep going on like this.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

United have spent £300 million more than Liverpool in the past 5 years. The only reason Liverpool are where they are is because of a better manager.
The Glazers are not great and have taken a lot of money out of the club but they have given United enough to be comfortable top 3.

 

[Roboc7]

Be realistic, would a progressive, proactive manager who is on the rise want to come to United?

United are never as attractive as we may have thought, to both managers and players. When Sir Alex retired in 2013, he reached out to several leading managers at that time (Pep was his 1st choice), but none of them agreed to take over, and we ended up with the 6th choice. The quality and the attractiveness of the team have kept dropping since then and I don't see how this team can attract talents (both managers and players) anymore.

We don’t want that type of manager though, it’s a fair point that a lot would be put off, the lack of a DOF would be after deterrent for some and expecting others like Nagelsman who work in proper structures woukdnt make sense. But plenty would jump at the chance you get a lot of money to spend and there is more patience than there would be at much smaller clubs.

We’re still looking to the past, Ole is the poster boy for that, that’s out solution and has been ever since SAF left.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We don’t want that type of manager though, it’s a fair point that a lot would be put off, the lack of a DOF would be after deterrent for some and expecting others like Nagelsman who work in proper structures woukdnt make sense. But plenty would jump at the chance you get a lot of money to spend and there is more patience than there would be at much smaller clubs.

We’re still looking to the past, Ole is the poster boy for that, that’s out solution and has been ever since SAF left.

What posters like @hmchan are also missing is that it's likely a manager like Nagelsman or Pochettino would demand a DoF to work with, whereas Moyes, LvG & Mourinho all admitted that were delighted to work in structure where the manager gets to decide everything so there was no way any of these managers put any pressure on the board for a DoF.

 

[Rash Decision]

We don’t want that type of manager though, it’s a fair point that a lot would be put off, the lack of a DOF would be after deterrent for some and expecting others like Nagelsman who work in proper structures woukdnt make sense. But plenty would jump at the chance you get a lot of money to spend and there is more patience than there would be at much smaller clubs.

We’re still looking to the past, Ole is the poster boy for that, that’s out solution and has been ever since SAF left.

Minor quibble but I don't agree with this statement. If Ole was working out, we'd probably be saying that the club finally learned its lesson by giving a chance to a young upcoming manager who "gets the club" after dinosaurs like LVG and Mourinho. We could argue that Chelsea was looking to the past when they hired Lampard. Or Barcelona with Guardiola.

 

[pastyfool]

Quick question @kps88, which other club/manager in the past 3 decades have slumped to 9 wins in 30 league games only to then prove it inevitably takes time by becoming a success later

A couple of examples might make me feel better on this shitty Sunday morning.

Sir Alex Ferguson. Manchester United.
25th Feb 1989–3rd Feb 1990
38 games played.
9 games won.

And before any of you wet your knickers, no I am not comparing Ole to Sir Alex.
But maybe back then if the internet was around, some of you would have been calling for Sir Alex's head.

People need to chill. It's going to take time to fix this mess.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Fans calling for him to be sacked when things inevitably take time.

Take time? You know what else took time? The collapse of the British Empire.

The only thing giving Ole more time is doing is plunge the club into even more despair.

 

[Kostur]

Sir Alex Ferguson. Manchester United.
25th Feb 1989–3rd Feb 1990
38 games played.
9 games won.

And before any of you wet your knickers, no I am not comparing Ole to Sir Alex.
But maybe back then if the internet was around, some of you would have been calling for Sir Alex's head.

People need to chill. It's going to take time to fix this mess.

You actually are. People invoking Fergie's games from fecking 30 years ago are hopeless.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Sir Alex Ferguson. Manchester United.
25th Feb 1989–3rd Feb 1990
38 games played.
9 games won.

And before any of you wet your knickers, no I am not comparing Ole to Sir Alex.
But maybe back then if the internet was around, some of you would have been calling for Sir Alex's head.

People need to chill. It's going to take time to fix this mess.

So one example that wasn't even in the past 3 decades which I asked for?

ONE fecking example, ONE?

You realise how fecking monumentally stupid that sounds? You have 1 example in 4 decades, and that one example actually turned out to be the best manager in the history of the English game . Prior to that the same manager had taken his United team from 21st when he took over to 2nd in just a season and a half, earning him the trust to do his rebuild. Remind me what our current manager has managed in a season and a half @pastyfoolto gain that level of trust from you?

So if Ole is to do it, he'll have to do something that hasn't been done for over 3 decades and he'll need to be one of the best managers in history.

 

[Balljy]

United have spent £300 million more than Liverpool in the past 5 years. The only reason Liverpool are where they are is because of a better manager.
The Glazers are not great and have taken a lot of money out of the club but they have given United enough to be comfortable top 3.

That surely points at transfer strategy far more than the multiple managers who have coincidentally all done similarly bad jobs. It's not only the manager who chooses players and if it is that is also down to a failure in structure and lack of planning from our executives.

 

[Roboc7]

Minor quibble but I don't agree with this statement. If Ole was working out, we'd probably be saying that the club finally learned its lesson by giving a chance to a young upcoming manager who "gets the club" after dinosaurs like LVG and Mourinho. We could argue that Chelsea was looking to the past when they hired Lampard. Or Barcelona with Guardiola.

He’a not a young up and coming manager though, been one for ten years, was stagnating in Norway and was only brought in to be a caretaker. Ole didn’t get the job for same reasons Pep got the job at Barca.

 

[Judas]

Minor quibble but I don't agree with this statement. If Ole was working out, we'd probably be saying that the club finally learned its lesson by giving a chance to a young upcoming manager who "gets the club" after dinosaurs like LVG and Mourinho. We could argue that Chelsea was looking to the past when they hired Lampard. Or Barcelona with Guardiola.

He's 46, and been managing for what ten years? Yes if Ole was working out the opinions on him would be different, amazing point that.

 

[kps88]

They have been singing his name for the last year. That definitely hasn't helped.

Just look at the poll above. I'm not just limiting it to Ole, I was replying to a question asked about a potential future manager. Any new manager coming in will need more than a year to sort out a mess that took many years to create.

 

[Kostur]

That surely points at transfer strategy far more than the multiple managers who have coincidentally all done similarly bad jobs. It's not only the manager who chooses players and if it is that is also down to a failure in structure and lack of planning from our executives.

It's not that I think that our structure is fine, it's shite make no mistake, but then again Liverpool fans wanted FSG out before Klopp came too. They've had the exactly same reasoning as us for getting Glazers/Woodward out.

 

[Balljy]

It's not that I think that our structure is fine, it's shite make no mistake, but then again Liverpool fans wanted FSG out before Klopp came too. They've had the exactly same reasoning as us for getting Glazers/Woodward out.

Agreed and although it's obvious that Klopp has had a big impact having Michael Edwards, Mike Gordon in the sporting roles and in charge of transfer strategy is something we don't have.

The former of those two becoming sporting director in 2016 is surely no coincidence in their success and is a big structural difference between us and them. The fans just want success and it's difficult to tell whether it's "just" Klopp or the fact they put good people in charge of player strategy from an outsiders perspective.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The fans just want success and it's difficult to tell whether it's "just" Klopp or the fact they put good people in charge of player strategy from an outsiders perspective.

Utter bollocks.

Look at Dortmund since he left, not a single title, go nowhere in the CL.

It's fecking Klopp miles more than absolutely anything else. Why do so many players come to Klopp and make their scouts, sporting directors at multiple clubs look genius' but then players leave (Mikhi, Kagawa, Götze, Şahin) and turn back to average players. Why was Dortmund's system the best in the World until Klopp left and suddenly Liverpool's system is the best? Coincidence my arse.

 

[Rash Decision]

He’a not a young up and coming manager though, been one for ten years, was stagnating in Norway and was only brought in to be a caretaker. Ole didn’t get the job for same reasons Pep got the job at Barca.

I suppose "young and upcoming" is quite debatable, so fair point. I just think that the club's run of choosing successive wrong managers isn't down to looking at the past, it's just had terrible judgement.

He's 46, and been managing for what ten years? Yes if Ole was working out the opinions on him would be different, amazing point that.

Bin the sarcasm, I'm just pointing out that I don't agree with the statement because if, for e.g., Ole fails and Lampard succeeds, you could easily argue that one club failed because it looked to the past for solutions, and the other succeeded by looking to its past.

 

[kps88]

Quick question @kps88, which other club/manager in the past 3 decades have slumped to 9 wins in 30 league games only to then prove it inevitably takes time by becoming a success later

A couple of examples might make me feel better on this shitty Sunday morning.

I'm not defending Ole's record. I was replying to a question that asked what would stop our new manager from achieving success. People expecting a new manager to come in and quickly fix a team that has 9 wins in 30 would be towards the top of my list. It's going to take a lot longer than most people are willing to accept.

 

[pastyfool]

You actually are. People invoking Fergie's games from fecking 30 years ago are hopeless.

No, I really wasn't. I was just replying to someone's question that asked about something like the current run of games happening in the last 30 years.
You really need to chill. Go for a walk.

 

[dove]

Sir Alex Ferguson. Manchester United.
25th Feb 1989–3rd Feb 1990
38 games played.
9 games won.

And before any of you wet your knickers, no I am not comparing Ole to Sir Alex.
But maybe back then if the internet was around, some of you would have been calling for Sir Alex's head.

People need to chill. It's going to take time to fix this mess.

So you basically compare them and then say "no I am not comparing Ole to Sir Alex". They have nothing in common and please don't insult Sir Alex by comparing him to Ole FFS. Ole is a nothing manager who should have been gone months ago.

 

[pastyfool]

So you basically compare them and then say "no I am not comparing Ole to Sir Alex". They have nothing in common and please don't insult Sir Alex by comparing him to Ole FFS. Ole is a nothing manager who should have been gone months ago.

Read the original question.

 

[Judas]

I suppose "young and upcoming" is quite debatable, so fair point. I just think that the club's run of choosing successive wrong managers isn't down to looking at the past, it's just had terrible judgement.



Bin the sarcasm, I'm just pointing out that I don't agree with the statement because if, for e.g., Ole fails and Lampard succeeds, you could easily argue that one club failed because it looked to the past for solutions, and the other succeeded by looking to its past.

Lampard has his own style and isn't doing some tribute to past days of glory that Ole is doing. They're not comparable at all.

 

[InspiRED]

Be realistic, would a progressive, proactive manager who is on the rise want to come to United?

United are never as attractive as we may have thought, to both managers and players. When Sir Alex retired in 2013, he reached out to several leading managers at that time (Pep was his 1st choice), but none of them agreed to take over, and we ended up with the 6th choice. The quality and the attractiveness of the team have kept dropping since then and I don't see how this team can attract talents (both managers and players) anymore.

i think the answer to that is a resounding yes.
Still a huge club with deep pockets, money available for transfers. Where can managers go and get £200m of players in in a season?

Secondly the fanbase expectations are currently ridiculously low. Create some chances, make us look like we’re improving and winning more than 9 out of 30 games and that isgoing to be a welcome improvement. That is a fecking low bar considering the resources we have. Quite frankly it’s like a dream situation for an up and coming manager. ‘So I can spend £200m on players and all I have to do is win more than 9 out of 30 games to be an improvement?’

Finally, think we’re all so tired of the ‘no other manager could do better here’ argument. Have any of you posters espousing this ever come into contact with logic before? I’m not just being flippant, I genuinely don’t understand how you can continue to make this argument. I hate the parasitic glazers and their regime as much as anyone but they haven’t put a hex on the club to my knowledge. There is nothing preventing the team from being successful with them at the helm. They’re obviously trying to not be sh*t, they’re just extremely incompetent and too focussed on the Disneyland side. But we can’t say they are paying no regard at all to the team, they’ve spent 100s of millions ffs!

No, the ‘no manager could do better here’ argument needs to die ASAP. Who even started it? It’s fecking ridiculous.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I'm not defending Ole's record. I was replying to a question that asked what would stop our new manager from achieving success. People expecting a new manager to come in and quickly fix a team that has 9 wins in 30 would be towards the top of my list. It's going to take a lot longer than most people are willing to accept.

People are willing to accept that it'll take time to get back to the top though, absolutely.

People aren't willing to accept that a manager who has done nothing previously and who has taken us to 9 wins in 30 league games is the man to do it. He's proving he's absolutely NOT the guy.

Was is more accurate is that some people are unwilling to accept that good and bad managers exist and it's looking more than likely that Ole is a bad one so all the time in the World won't help.