Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Roboc7]

A point isn’t a terrible result it was more the manner of the performance and it empathises problem with Ole being happy to draw against likes of Wolves at home.

We’re not going to get lots of points between now and end of season, only upside is no one around us probably will either. Ole is making in his try not to get beat and passive approach being enough to sneak into top four.

Although the three point gap to Chelsea seems very small at rate we pick up points it’s quite significant.

 

[bonothom]

This United team have certainly improved over the last month and that's all down to the brilliant Bruno. He should have been bought last summer but theres no point saying it as its history. They certainly have a good shout for top 4 now and if they achieve that then I would say Ole deserves to have next season.

 

[Random Task]

Wow, you just tried to make out it was a fact that every bookie on the planet had Leicester as top 4 favourites and then you post this? The delusion here.

The bookies having United are big favourites over Leicester a the beginning of the season is exactly why my post ISN'T entirely subjective.

No, that's not subjective, but your view on which team began the season in better shape most definitely is an opinion, thus it is subjective.

I think he's right @Random Task

I've said plenty that this thread should be on page 25 of the forum, but after every single half decent result someone pops up banging about "I told you so, I told you so", and then in turn a "meh" result means posters on the other side feel the need to respond.

I wish the thread would fecking die until 31st May.

Yeah, this thread has more than outstayed its welcome. We're at the point now where posters from either side of the fence are arguing for the sake of arguing. This thread, and many like it, serve only to create a divide between the forum members.

He isn't getting sacked this season anyway so may as well close it until next season kicks off.

 

[Scolari]

We’ve won 11 league games, the same as Burnley! Let that sink in thats our standard now.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Erm, virtually every bookie on the planet had Leicester finishing in the top four.

No they didn’t

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Meh, not much to say today to be honest. A draw was the most likely result in my opinion, always was. I will say Ole's decision to play that diamond wasn't great, and our second half was appallingly familiar its in lack of oomph and drive. How much of that is down to the players' fitness, motivation or what, I don't know. Ole will get a win midweek now and the smiles will return though, so let's see how the next league fixture turns out.

 

[Foxbatt]

If he goes all out attack and we lose we are in bigger trouble. I thought under the circumstances this was the best formation he could do. I would have gone with James and Odion to start and then bring in Martial and Greenwood. The reason being to tire the Everton defence. It means James and Odion should know that their job is not to play the whole 90 mins but just like pace makers in a race their job is to tire the defence and they themselves should give all out non stop running while they are on the pitch.
I still have issues with him of course. The corners and his game management and his plays. But give him credit for not losing today and coming away with a point given our situation now.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

No they didn’t

I know, it's been proven to be incorrect above in quite amusing fashion to be fair. However, I personally did feel that Leicester could break the top 4 due to having a good manager and a decent squad, while the usual 'top clubs' were all a bit of an unknown quantity, outside of the top 2.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

No, that's not subjective, but your view on which team began the season in better shape most definitely is an opinion, thus it is subjective.

I go with the bookies rather than my own opinion, ergo, not subjective.

Yeah, this thread has more than outstayed its welcome.

Absolutely, the mods should have locked it on 31st January imo.

 

[hubbuh]

If he goes all out attack and we lose we are in bigger trouble. I thought under the circumstances this was the best formation he could do. I would have gone with James and Odion to start and then bring in Martial and Greenwood. The reason being to tire the Everton defence. It means James and Odion should know that their job is not to play the whole 90 mins but just like pace makers in a race their job is to tire the defence and they themselves should give all out non stop running while they are on the pitch.
I still have issues with him of course. The corners and his game management and his plays. But give him credit for not losing today and coming away with a point given our situation now.

The options from the bench are so dire I almost feel sorry him. Martial isn't the sort of player you drop into a high octane game in which intensity rules and chances are few and far between. He either starts, scores and it's great, or he doesn't and you wonder what the hell he's done for the past 90 minutes. Mata also isn't the sort of player where you'd expect to be able to transition effortlessly when it's fast and physical. I think Greenwood would have been a better option from the bench.

It was a great opportunity for us to close the gap on 4th and, shock horror, we've fluffed it (in large part thanks to De Gea). Extremely frustrating.

 

[matsdf]

Looking forward to the next two Premiership games, we've been very good in those fixtures under Ole!

 

[bsCallout]

I am happy with the progress. I am happy with the signings. I am happy with the way we are starting to play and seeing the combinations and consistency in players. I believe Ole is making every player better.

I'm convinced Ole knows that Martial needs replacing and where we can strengthen.

I am also convinced that had we started the season with our current squad (i.e. including Ighalo and Bruno), with Pogba fit and Rashford fit, that we would be in close running for the PL title. I don't think we are far off at all.

We finally have people challenging for places and with Grealish > Pogba(due to mentality) and a new striker and Rashford fit we will be a very, very strong team with a deep squad.

I don't think Ole is the best manager but he said himself that he likes to delegate. I would actually rather see a top class coach appointed, or even two rather than just see Ole swapped.

Didn't Liverpool get a coach just for throw ins? This is the sort of attention to detail we will require to go that extra step and I have all faith that Ole will be happy to appoint the people to achieve that, rather than have a manager with a big ego that is set in his ways.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I think the mods should lock this thread as I don't see the point anymore. A few months ago it was a legitimate question, now it's a silly question because we are in the race for top 4.

If only the only prerequisite to being a successful Man Utd manager was being in 'race for Top 4'...

This is an absolutely shite PL season, and Top 4 is slacker than ever with City's CL ban.

Solskjaer is not the best manager that Utd could get, far from it.

He's been very fortunate to've been given this opportunity and hopefully he's had a great experience managing at an Elite club, good luck to him.

But he should obviously be replaced at the end of the season with a manager who's up for taking on Klopp and Guardiola.

 

[Kush]

Honestly, I couldn't give a flying feck about Leicester and that's the truth. I don't even know why we're having this debate.

The reason for Leicester debate was your own post

Erm, virtually every bookie on the planet had Leicester finishing in the top four.

Anyways, this is not specifically aimed at you but there is a running theme at this place to overrate seemingly every other squad in the PL whenever we drop points to them. The whataboutism is nauseating, which is what many inferred from your post as to Leicester having a better squad than us.

I think our squad is still in dire need of some injection of quality in couple of areas, but make no mistake we're still severely under-achieving this season. Pointing to PL table doesn't reflect the whole story, when you realize this is the lowest point tally to be in 3-7th place position in entire history of PL. Me and others share a concern, that if these positions and points tally were to regress to mean, where would that leave us? Would we still be competing for these spots, or be left miles off the pace? I don't see much difference to our play or performances in over 14 months, it's still very patchy which has me doubting whether it's in clubs best interest to continue with Ole next season.

 

[Bobcat]

Meh, not much to say today to be honest. A draw was the most likely result in my opinion, always was. I will say Ole's decision to play that diamond wasn't great, and our second half was appallingly familiar its in lack of oomph and drive. How much of that is down to the players' fitness, motivation or what, I don't know. Ole will get a win midweek now and the smiles will return though, so let's see how the next league fixture turns out.

Diamond might be unfamiliar for us, but pretty much everyone agreed before the game it was the "best" formation for us to get our best players on the field.

That bolded part is key imo. Were we tired after Thursday? I wrote after that match that we seemed much fitter this season, but it seems i was sorely mistaken then because that second half performance was some weak shite. Either that or the players did not bother

 

[Mainoldo]

Meh, not much to say today to be honest. A draw was the most likely result in my opinion, always was. I will say Ole's decision to play that diamond wasn't great, and our second half was appallingly familiar its in lack of oomph and drive. How much of that is down to the players' fitness, motivation or what, I don't know. Ole will get a win midweek now and the smiles will return though, so let's see how the next league fixture turns out.

I think it’s best if we get knocked out of the FA cup. We need to concentrate on getting Champions League football.

 

[bond19821982]

We played a diamond but still there was no protection to the defence. Everton just went for high balls and expected one of Richarlison or CL take it and the second balls.

At least we were better in defending set pieces. Feck - Ancelotti is just another Dinosaur old english manager who knows nothing but long balls and crosses.

 

[FootyGirl88]

What??

Tweet

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[Forevergiggs1]

I think the mods should lock this thread as I don't see the point anymore. A few months ago it was a legitimate question, now it's a silly question because we are in the race for top 4.

The question is why are we in the race for top 4? If Leicester and Chelski carried on their first half of the season form we wouldn't be anywhere near but both teams are imploding. One result could of changed our season and that was against Chelski. So do you think the thread should be stopped because of 1 result?

 

[morbidsaint]

Are you saying Ancelotti improved the team in a few months without any signings, what sorcery is this?

Yes, he did. When Ole came in, he also made United much, MUCH better. If i remember correctly, he went on a rampage beating anything in his teams path. We will see how Ancelotti does going forward. He has a solid group of players. Besides, Everton seems to over-perform anytime they meet us.. no matter who the manager is

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

What??

Tweet

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Guy is a joke

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

What??

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Jumpers for goalposts....

He's a lovely chap but he's stuck in the past, he's a relic manager. He'd have probably done very well in the PL circa 2001-05 managing someone like Bolton. I'm not taking the piss, either I'm genuine there.

 

[gerdm07]

If only the only prerequisite to being a successful Man Utd manager was being in 'race for Top 4'...

This is an absolutely shite PL season, and Top 4 is slacker than ever with City's CL ban.

Solskjaer is not the best manager that Utd could get, far from it.

He's been very fortunate to've been given this opportunity and hopefully he's had a great experience managing at an Elite club, good luck to him.

But he should obviously be replaced at the end of the season with a manager who's up for taking on Klopp and Guardiola.

You are one of those who think United have a right to always be in the top 4 and compete for titles. We don't and our team is not good enough, period. Live with that and then take note that Ole has us pointed in the right direction.

 

[gerdm07]

The question is why are we in the race for top 4? If Leicester and Chelski carried on their first half of the season form we wouldn't be anywhere near but both teams are imploding. One result could of changed our season and that was against Chelski. So do you think the thread should be stopped because of 1 result?

No, based on the trajectory of where we are headed. We are obviously getting better and Ole's acquisitions have been very good. It doesn't matter what's happened to Leicester and Chelsea, we can only compete with the reality in front of us and we have a chance at top 4. But hey, let's fire Ole tomorrow, ruin the locker room spirit, and reduce our chances for top 4. Sounds like really good management.

 

[e.cantona]

I enjoyed the game. That didn't happen often with Mourinho/LVG/Moyes even when we won.
I don't know. Think you Ole outs' a bunch of weirdos..

 

[GazTheLegend]

Meh, not much to say today to be honest. A draw was the most likely result in my opinion, always was. I will say Ole's decision to play that diamond wasn't great, and our second half was appallingly familiar its in lack of oomph and drive. How much of that is down to the players' fitness, motivation or what, I don't know. Ole will get a win midweek now and the smiles will return though, so let's see how the next league fixture turns out.

It's more down to having a game on Thursday while Everton -... didn't.

 

[Random Task]

I think our squad is still in dire need of some injection of quality in couple of areas, but make no mistake we're still severely under-achieving this season. Pointing to PL table doesn't reflect the whole story, when you realize this is the lowest point tally to be in 3-7th place position in entire history of PL. Me and others share a concern, that if these positions and points tally were to regress to mean, where would that leave us? Would we still be competing for these spots, or be left miles off the pace? I don't see much difference to our play or performances in over 14 months, it's still very patchy which has me doubting whether it's in clubs best interest to continue with Ole next season.

I have misgivings where Ole's management is concerned just as much as anyone else. I've been teetering on the brink of sack/keep ever since the season kicked off. Right now, I think he deserves another season in charge on the basis that his work in the transfer market has been near-faultless, the players are firmly on his side, and they have, for the most part, performed to or above expectations. - which is a step up from what Jose and LVG achieved with the squad.

That said, his in-game management leaves a lot to be desired. Getting schooled by Ancheloti this afternoon was just one of many occasions where Ole's lack of tactical understanding has cost us dearly. He's a little nieve at times, and his leadership skills are questionable at best, but my biggest issue is losing out on Poch who I believe is the next best thing to a Klopp or Pep.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

No, based on the trajectory of where we are headed. We are obviously getting better and Ole's acquisitions have been very good. It doesn't matter what's happened to Leicester and Chelsea, we can only compete with the reality in front of us and we have a chance at top 4. But hey, let's fire Ole tomorrow, ruin the locker room spirit, and reduce our chances for top 4. Sounds like really good management.

In the context of what you were talking about (locking the thread because we're in the race for top 4) then of course other teams have to be taken into consideration. If we take what you say on board what happens if chelski lose their next 4 games and we draw ours, we'll be ahead of them and in top 4 (not taking other teams into consideration) does that mean we shouldn't worry about Oles credentials being in the top 4?

Take the chelski game. That literally could of went either way. If we lost we would of been 9 points behind them so for me winning 1 game shouldn't be enough to think that Ole has proved himself and therefore the thread should be locked.

 

[Foxbatt]

Diamond might be unfamiliar for us, but pretty much everyone agreed before the game it was the "best" formation for us to get our best players on the field.

That bolded part is key imo. Were we tired after Thursday? I wrote after that match that we seemed much fitter this season, but it seems i was sorely mistaken then because that second half performance was some weak shite. Either that or the players did not bother

Diamond is always the best formation. But when playing the diamond, the two forward players need to be closer to each other. In a game like this we should try to be winning at the end of the game. Not in between. This is why I say that he is naive or has no experience. Martial has played very well when he has come on as a sub. So has Greenwood. When you play Greenwood so far out wide he is not that effective because he is not that quick. Furthermore, AWB is not a very good attacking player.
We should have gone with Odion and James for the first 60 or so minutes and then brought on Martial and Greenwood. But James and Odion needs to know what their job is. I am also wondering how good our analysts are. Having observed how bad some of our passing and movements are I wonder now if they are terrible? We see so many times the wrong pass to the wrong space and players not moving into space at all. AWB is one of the culprits most of the time.
Ole needs to do something about our corners and set pieces and our plays and movements off the ball. Surely if we can see this he should be able to see it? Or is he so close to the scene that he cannot see it? Sometimes as a coach it can happen. We cannot be relying on Bruno Fernandes to save us all the time.

 

[Champagne Football]

The question is why are we in the race for top 4? If Leicester and Chelski carried on their first half of the season form we wouldn't be anywhere near but both teams are imploding. One result could of changed our season and that was against Chelski. So do you think the thread should be stopped because of 1 result?

Instead of demanding 400 million to spend or else he downs tools, Ole realized the club had spent a fortune already on the likes of underperforming players like Fred and Martial, who everyone wanted gone last summer. McT is another who nobody wanted anywhere near the first XI. Luke Shaw is another who was not performing for a long time.
So considering it was Ole's job to rebuild the confidence of damaged goods like Fred, Martial and Shaw along with developing Greenwood, Scott and Williams, while taking into account that all of his signings have been solid and have improved us, then you could counter your argument and argue that Ole has done a very admirable job so far in rebuilding what was clearly a sinking ship. And the fact we're still in with a realistic shout of qualifying for the CL, despite the size of the rebuild, then you could argue he will have been a huge success if he delivers CL football for next season. It will come down to fine margins in the end

 

[Gehrman]

Instead of demanding 400 million to spend or else he downs tools, Ole realized the club had spent a fortune already on the likes of underperforming players like Fred and Martial, who everyone wanted gone last summer. McT is another who nobody wanted anywhere near the first XI. Luke Shaw is another who was not performing for a long time.
So considering it was Ole's job to rebuild the confidence of damaged goods like Fred, Martial and Shaw along with developing Greenwood, Scott and Williams, while taking into account that all of his signings have been solid and have improved us, then you could counter your argument and argue that Ole has done a very admirable job so far in rebuilding what was clearly a sinking ship. And the fact we're still in with a realistic shout of qualifying for the CL, despite the size of the rebuild, then you could argue he will have been a huge success if he delivers CL football for next season. It will come down to fine margins in the end

I don't remember everyone wanting Martial or MctT gone or maybe I just wasn't included. Fred started of this season terribly but has grown massily in the form simply by playing. Last season he barely ever made the bench, obviously having us puzzled why we bought him in the first place.

I agree Ole's signings have been solid, but feel both Ole and Woody should have been less naive going into the season seeing that we'd be screwed in the case of injuries since we shipped out 2 midfielders and 2 forwards.

The reason why we are still in the top 4 race is because the our usual top 4 rivals have been terrible as well. I mean if Ole is a huge succes, then what is the manager of Sheffield United considering that there is only 2 points seperating us, while they have a game in hand. They were literally in the championship last season.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I just don't know anymore, he seems to have a knack of putting a run together just when people have given up on him, and I can't work out if this is progress, or if it just a odd way for us to gain what will ultimately be an average points total for a squad with our quality.

I've never blamed or praised Ole too much, and in the absence for a viable alternative I'm happy for him to stay, but I can't shake the feeling that he is ultimately going to be the link to a better manager reaping the benefits of the decent squad we seem to be getting together.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The reason why we are still in the top 4 race is because the our usual top 4 rivals have been terrible as well. I mean if Ole is a huge succes, then what is the manager of Sheffield United considering that there is only 2 points seperating us, while they have a game in hand. They were literally in the championship last season.

I think the best "neutral" way to judge it is on the bookies odds at the start of the season, then look at their current position. The bookies had United and Chelsea are joint favourites for 4th which is pretty bang on.

Sheffield United in that sense have overachieved massively, they were relegation favourites with the bookies . Burnley also.

United are underachieving, as are Arsenal & Spurs.

https://www.football.london/premier-league/premier-league-201920-odds-title-16422649

Premier League 2019/20 top four odds
Manchester City 1/33
Liverpool 1/10
Tottenham Hotspur 4/6
Manchester United 1/1
Chelsea 1/1
Arsenal 5/4
Everton 16/1
Wolverhampton Wanderers 16/1
Leicester City 25/1
Newcastle United 33/1
West Ham United 66/1
Watford 100/1
Southampton 100/1
Crystal Palace 125/1
Bournemouth 150/1
Aston Villa 150/1
Brighton and Hove Albion 200/1
Norwich City 250/1
Burnley 250/1
Sheffield United 500/1

What Ole has done "best" and many are lauding him for is something I'm rather convinced is club policy rather than anything specific to do with Ole. I won't give Ole the free card many here do because our signings have been decent and we've gotten rid of some unlikeable players; as the transfer committee was most definitely put in place in Summer 2018 and overruled Mourinho all Summer, they have the power now with recruitment, that was crystal clear by Mourinho's treatment of Fred and his subsequent meltdown when they denied him the likes of Perisic and Willian.
So with that said, the entire transfer committee deserves just as much praise for this and there's a good chance we would have done exactly the same with Giggs or Steve Bruce in charge.
The managers role at United has clearly changed and the manager's job is much more than recruitment these days.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

You are one of those who think United have a right to always be in the top 4 and compete for titles. We don't and our team is not good enough, period. Live with that and then take note that Ole has us pointed in the right direction.

Nope, I just know that Solksjaer isn't the best manager that Utd could get, he's far from it - and thus he should be replaced.

Cheers.

 

[gerdm07]

In the context of what you were talking about (locking the thread because we're in the race for top 4) then of course other teams have to be taken into consideration. If we take what you say on board what happens if chelski lose their next 4 games and we draw ours, we'll be ahead of them and in top 4 (not taking other teams into consideration) does that mean we shouldn't worry about Oles credentials being in the top 4?

Take the chelski game. That literally could of went either way. If we lost we would of been 9 points behind them so for me winning 1 game shouldn't be enough to think that Ole has proved himself and therefore the thread should be locked.

I'm not sure what your point is. We didn't lose to Chelsea, end of story. Ole is obviously not going to be fired until the season is over despite what many of you wish. Just live with it and cheer us on to get top 4.

 

[ReddBalls]

I think the best "neutral" way to judge it is on the bookies odds at the start of the season, then look at their current position. The bookies had United and Chelsea are joint favourites for 4th which is pretty bang on.

Sheffield United in that sense have overachieved massively, they were relegation favourites with the bookies . Burnley also.

United are underachieving, as are Arsenal & Spurs.

https://www.football.london/premier-league/premier-league-201920-odds-title-16422649

Premier League 2019/20 top four odds
Manchester City 1/33
Liverpool 1/10
Tottenham Hotspur 4/6
Manchester United 1/1
Chelsea 1/1
Arsenal 5/4
Everton 16/1
Wolverhampton Wanderers 16/1
Leicester City 25/1
Newcastle United 33/1
West Ham United 66/1
Watford 100/1
Southampton 100/1
Crystal Palace 125/1
Bournemouth 150/1
Aston Villa 150/1
Brighton and Hove Albion 200/1
Norwich City 250/1
Burnley 250/1
Sheffield United 500/1

What Ole has done "best" and many are lauding him for is something I'm rather convinced is club policy rather than anything specific to do with Ole. I won't give Ole the free card many here do because our signings have been decent and we've gotten rid of some unlikeable players; as the transfer committee was most definitely put in place in Summer 2018 and overruled Mourinho all Summer, they have the power now with recruitment, that was crystal clear by Mourinho's treatment of Fred and his subsequent meltdown when they denied him the likes of Perisic and Willian.
So with that said, the entire transfer committee deserves just as much praise for this and there's a good chance we would have done exactly the same with Giggs or Steve Bruce in charge.
The managers role at United has clearly changed and the manager's job is much more than recruitment these days.

Top 4 is in no way gone. Have United underachieved if the get 4th?

 

[momo83]

Forget being Ole out, I was giving “Giving Ole the job full time is the biggest mistake “

Now, however, I think we should just concentrate on getting 4th. Hopefully get Poch in the summer and appreciate whatever good Ole did in regards to youth and identity.

 

[Foxbatt]

I have never thought Poch is the answer. Yes he is a good coach and took Spurs to the CL final but I think someone like Nagelsmann would be a much better choice.
Ole is out of his depth compared to the top coaches. Someone will say he beat Pep. Nigel Pearson beat Klopp 3-0 but it doesn't make him a better manager than Klopp.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Top 4 is in no way gone. Have United underachieved if the get 4th?

No, thought that was obvious by my post?

The season so far we’ve underachieved but we’ve plenty of chance to correct that.

 

[meamth]

We’ve won 11 league games, the same as Burnley! Let that sink in thats our standard now.

Don't be fecking daft, look at the competition overall quality instead of mocking how many wins we're collecting.

Mocking for the sake of mocking.