He's so obviously not good enough as a manager it's frustrating.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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This whole playing dumb and taking results and performace as the same thing stick is getting boring now. Under LvG we didnt have that crap in here, it started with JM, just dont understand desperation for it and need to fend off every single issue people have after watching a game.
Why the feck would I look at other teams for our performance issue ? 11 wins is not enough for a team who has spent 100m+. Whatever way you put in , it's just not going to be convincing.
Ole as a manager is as clueless as you can get. People have a soft spot because he was bloody awesome as a player.
It is the basics that he gets wrong. Either he has no idea or the players are not capable. I think that since all of them play to a different level when they play for their national teams it is an issue with our coaching.
I feel that he does not know how to use players for strategic reasons. A good coach would play Odion and James to start and tire out their defence and then let lose Martial and Greenwood. Also play them closer to each other and forget about the width with those two players because they are not big CFs and hence better for them to in a position to shoot from better angles. Then it is pointless to take about our corners because a blind man can see that it is not working and we need variations like near post or other variations.
He also does not know when we lose the momentum and the equilibrium swings to the other side. Either you have them or don't and he does not have it and no matter how much experience he gets ( he is actually fairly experienced in management) he is simply not going to get it.
Just because SAF was successful in a certain way it does not mean Ole is going to be successful now in the way he played all those years ago. Yes SAF was successful in England but never had the same kind of success in Europe when he had to come up against top coaches.
I feel that he does not know how to use players for strategic reasons. A good coach would play Odion and James to start and tire out their defence and then let lose Martial and Greenwood. Also play them closer to each other and forget about the width with those two players because they are not big CFs and hence better for them to in a position to shoot from better angles. Then it is pointless to take about our corners because a blind man can see that it is not working and we need variations like near post or other variations.
He also does not know when we lose the momentum and the equilibrium swings to the other side. Either you have them or don't and he does not have it and no matter how much experience he gets ( he is actually fairly experienced in management) he is simply not going to get it.
Just because SAF was successful in a certain way it does not mean Ole is going to be successful now in the way he played all those years ago. Yes SAF was successful in England but never had the same kind of success in Europe when he had to come up against top coaches.
Agreed. I am enjoying the games much more than when it was under Mourinho and LVG. Although the few months before Bruno joined, was rather painful too.
Also, when new managers such as Ancelotti join a team, many fans start wondering why we couldn't have a better manager. Well, when OGS joined, he had a fantastic first 15 games. What's important is what happens in the long run.
Is OGS the manager for us? I am not sure. I feel he was really meant to be for the interim, but because of that first 15 games, he was given the job. He seems to be moving things along the right direction. Perhaps good enough for top 4 but I dont think he will be good enough for top spot.
I have given him till end of season before replacing him. But if we can get top 4, I do not mind another season of trial and gradual improvements.
You may have an opinion on Ole, which is fine but to say he's out of his depth or as clueless as you can get is probably a bit harsh and not entirely accurate really. No matter what you might think/say about him, we're still in 5th, 3 points off 4th and still in the FA Cup and Europa League. The improvement in several players has not gone unnoticed either.
Isn’t it the same sorcery that Ole used in his first few months?
In their mind, if you don’t win, the game is not considered to be enjoyable. This has been the case of Ole’s out. Pushing for excuses even if it doesn’t make sense.
Even if we win, there will be stupid things mentioned. You just can't win with these haters.
A brand new system Everton despite being gifted a goal couldn't live with in the first half, d'ya mean that that one???
Yeah you are spot on with that and personally I think 4 points from those two games is a massive ask right now, our only hope is Pogba making a miraculous comeback off the bench against City next Sunday, if he doesn't make it then I have a horrible feeling City and Spurs will shut Bruno right down like PSG did with Pogba last year and slam the door on our top 4 prospects for good.
Ole is the default scapegoat for all the unhappiness in their respective lives.
They need silverware to give themselves some level of self-esteem. That's why they have little patience. They can't wait for the re-build. Seven years of United's performance have been tied to their own happiness/identity and self-esteem.
United is them so if United doesn't do well, their self-esteem drops. They need to feel like a 'winner', not by working for it yourself but via an outside vehicle.
Basically they have outsourced their sense of identity, community and purpose to an externalised source rather than, as you mature, you should start developing it internally, by yourselves.
Cases of arrested development.
No top 4 after having spent so much and all top teams bar Pool being out of their depth this season, will have Ole out the door.
Spent so much, yes. What about injuries to Pogba, Rashford, Martial and Scott?
Squad management is one of the key skills a proper manager. Especially, when we were promised to have a super fit squad this season by the manager himself. Lots of money spent, in game management poor, fitness horrific, team cohesion average, ,ost of goals come from individual brilliance, while there is no diversity in our tactics. No top 4, no more job for Ole at United.
Oh look the Ole in are psychologists now
What an odd little post.
So every United fan who thinks 11 wins from 28 games isn't good enough is unhappy in life? what the holy feck.
I'm delighted in life, I don't need United to do anything to "fulfil me", I have a beautiful baby daughter, my own company, I'm getting married this Summer and I travel loads. In fact, our form being so shite has actually made it much easier to miss games like the one yesterday and spend quality time with the family.
But yeah, all you Ole in brigade are the happy ones, with balanced lives and great self-esteem who are "winners" in life
I mean, there's absolutely no way that everyone has a different reason for being Ole in or out and feels different about the whole thing too is there? I mean, we all know everyone with the same view is exactly the same person.
Hang your head in shame man.
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I hear only excuses. Every manager has injuries.
"United is so shit!"
"But hey look, Chelsea and Arsenal are shit too!"
Blatant whataboutism there.
I rather we focus on ourselves instead of "looking at the overall quality of the competition". If the overall league quality is bad, shouldn't this be the best chance of us to capitalize on this?
Just like how Leicester won the league.So yeah, of course we are most certainly gonna look at our number of wins.Excuses get worse by the day. Now its the fans that are the issue for our poor result. Basically, we just need to be happy with a poor manager achieving poor results and all will be fine in our lives
"Promised" a super fit squad? Injuries are now down to the manager?
Anyway the injuries can be because of squad depth - it was not addressed in the summer. We let a few go without adequate replacements. I guess you can say Ole is at fault for not getting replacements in though board is also responsible.
Ingame management being poor is a load of crap. Loads of time it was worked out and sometimes it doesn't. How is fitness horrific considering we are in 3 competitions? How do you measure team cohesion? Also no diversity in tactics? We played a diamond for the first time today?
Shambles we are when we don't win.
The ones who are almost disciple-esque are a very very strange crew, easily the oddest on here. Obviously there's a few like Bilbo and Leftback who can argue and maintain a certain degree of common sense but others can't understand at all why on Earth some fans would be unhappy with 11 wins in 28. I mean, how can they not understand that whilst they may be ok with that, other fans may not?
And then they revert to spouting complete nonsense like the psychobabble bullshit above about how everyone on the "wrong side" of the argument (according to them) is an unhappy in life and everyone on the "right side" of the argument doesn't need United to do well to have great self esteem and feel like a winner.
Then there's the bunch that revert to outright lies like the one yesterday that every bookie in the World had Leicester as favourites for the top 4 at the start of the season.
It's beyond bizarre.
Then you will hear what you want to hear. Why discuss when your mind is made up? End of.
We have been very unlucky with injuries. Losing our best MF and now best forward has got to be freaky and not something that happens frequently. This is a fact.
He's not talking about injuries mate, he's talking about fitness, and yes, Ole did say last April that our fitness was no way near good enough and promised a super fit squad for this season.
That's all the poster was getting at.
But the squad is fit. Lack of squad depth and us being in 3 competitions means we are bound to run out of steam sometime?
Hence the posters point about squad management which appears to have completely sailed over your head.
Yes, ridiculous arguments some make. I say both sides tend to go overboard. I can see why some are Ole out. Or Ole in for that matter.
When we are winning, he is SAF reincarnate. When we lose he is crap.
Without depth, there is nothing in "management" that can be done. He has played youngsters this season ffs. If he has a squad to work with we can understand. It's a ridiculous argument really. Fans expect victory not how well you rotate.
We've won 11 from 28 in the league though so it's not very often.
But yeah, as you say, I can absolutely understand why some fans are in and some are out, I'm sure most of the more balanced posters with "good self-esteem" and "happy lives" in the debate can understand this
Once again, that was his point.
Squad management is certainly down to the manager. Yes, and Ole indeed himself promised that we would see a different United fitness wise this season. If he is not responsible for it, then he is a bullshitter trying to deflect a well deserved scrutiny, which he is not. So Yes, he is fully responsible for poor for overplaying some players, he really is at least and I would say mainly responsible for having a bare-bone squad, and his in game management is totally shit. He usually relies on individual brilliance of players, or long-ball counter-attacking football, and once our plan does not work out, we have no fecking idea of what to do alternatively. If his level is beating Brugge with this squad, then he is on his level. If he is supposed to challenge for at least top 4 after1.5 years (by the end of the season that is ) and having spent huge amounts, than he is well below par. Get rid and get a manager who will take us forward. We are not going to splash huge amount on players, we have to be spot on with each and every penny we spent. Our team should be greater than the sum of its parts, which is exactly where a manager's added value is. In this regard Ole is light years behind top managers.
"Promised" a super fit squad? Injuries are now down to the manager?
Anyway the injuries can be because of squad depth - it was not addressed in the summer. We let a few go without adequate replacements. I guess you can say Ole is at fault for not getting replacements in though board is also responsible.
Ingame management being poor is a load of crap. Loads of time it was worked out and sometimes it doesn't. How is fitness horrific considering we are in 3 competitions? How do you measure team cohesion? Also no diversity in tactics? We played a diamond for the first time today?
Shambles we are when we don't win.
We've won 11 from 28 in the league though so it's not very often.
But yeah, as you say, I can absolutely understand why some fans are in and some are out, I'm sure most of the more balanced posters with "good self-esteem" and "happy lives" in the debate can understand this
I think we have got the feel good factor back at the club. A kind of nostalgia trip back to when SAF was here with Phelan/Ole and talks about culture/mentality shift.
This has led a lot of us to basically ignore the dire point tally for the sake of "progress". I'm basically in the support-your-manager camp but it's obvious to see where Ole's flaws are. Hoping he irons it out before the summer. The way I see it a new manager will slow us down (at the start). Adapting to new coaches/technique is not as easy.
not a chance of Ole being sacked on the summer every player he has bought has been an improvement , he has been hampered with a horrible run of injuries leaving him with no option but to play the likes of Lingard and Pereira on a regular basis A goalkeeper who seems suddenly incapable of 90 mins concentration on a regular basis .
He has got the defence sorted and we are in touching distance of top 4 for gods sake change the record.
Every club manager has injuries. Do you think it is only United who’s unlucky? Over the course of the season, most clubs face that issue, like Jose now with Kane for example.
This is a really daft and naive excuse.
Maybe I was not clear before. Let's assume Ole was right about working on fitness and hypothetically we had a super fit squad last summer. This squad though qualitatively fit is quantitatively not enough to take on 3 competitions. How is this only Ole's fault? It was obvious that we lacked depth even before the season began. I agree Ole has to be blamed a bit but it is more on the board not getting transfers right. We got Bruno at the end of Jan ffs.
Also we disagree on in game management. I think he has done well esp against the stronger teams where tactically we have come on top; against Liverpool we played a 3 at the back hence restricting width to their fullbacks. I can give more examples but he is not as bad as you are making him out to be. So no I don't think he depends on individual brilliance only. And our level is beating Chelsea City not Brugge.
As for top 4 after 1.5 yrs - what is the realistic goal here? What do you expect a new manager to do within the same time frame? Win or challenge for the title? Within 1.5 yrs? I know we have had it bad for years now but let's be real. This was always a rebuild job and expecting anything else other than top 4 is delusion.
I am ready to be that if we are not in CL next season, then Ole is sacked. Now be a man, and take on that bet if you are sure. The loser leaves the caf forever.
As I said you are pretty much decided on terming it as an excuse so so be it.
Also Spurs have also been unlucky like us. That doesn't mean it happens to most clubs. We have been unlucky. Naive? Maybe. But I don't think it is an excuse.
Regarding squad being bare bone, yes it is his fault. He has already mentioned that no player leaves or joins the club without his permission.
In-game management is quite poor imo. Did not we start with 3 at the back against Pool? What is our record against Pool this year? How about all the points dropped against teams outside of top 4? The mere fact that we do shite against teams who just park the bus, says it all.
As for top 4 and being the biggest spender in the league during this period, I would expect us to be in top 4 comfortably, particularly, with all other top teams (bar pool) being shite as well. I would also expect us to be a team that would have a certain style of play. Finally, I am absolutely sure that Wolves, Leicester and Sheffield have much better managers than United. I am not even talking about Pep and Klopp here. Also, Lampard would probably do better than Ole with this squad.
They're literally 3rd place, miles ahead of us in the league and have been far more consistent than us for large periods of the season.
I think we've got the 4th best team in the league. I'll be content with 4th place this season.
There's "lying" and there's having an opinion on a fans forum, take some deep breaths and calm down pal.
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