Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Mainoldo]

I think Ole played it right in that he rested some of his best players and played others to try get the win.

It's really simple

Ole was slaughtered for resting players and making 9 changes vs Norwich for not wanting to win the cup.
Ole is now slaughtered for picking a strong XI and fielding quite a few regular players.

It's a lose lose situation to folks like you who just want to bitch about every single little thing.

He picked a strong enough XI to get the win, the players are fecked after a tough run of games in a short period of time and Chelsea had 4 days grace on us. It shouldn't be all that surprising when they then have more energy than us.

Maguire plays every single game. Rashford pretty much broke his back playing every single game and the past 4 years has seen Romero play as our Cup goalie. If he’s going to rest player maybe he should actually rest the players that need resting.

Correction. I don’t think anyone moaned about him making changes for Norwich. They moaned about his tactics (shock horror) and the quality in drop off which had nothing to do with him. More the players available.

 

[romufc]

1) Haven't a clue what you are on about with this. It makes zero sense, we had players to choose from and he opted for CB's and wingbacks... but yeah do try dig yourself out of a hole.


2) Fantastic so fatigue was indeed a genuine issue and adding a CB to a back line suffering from fatigue makes logical sense. Thanks for clearing that up.


3) Pretty sure counter attacking football is... attacking football, its in the name for god sake. I mean, SAF was lauded over his brilliance for attacking football with... counter attacking football.


4) No idea what your point here is again, seems a repeat to try convince yourself or somebody you know what you are talking about, keep digging.


5) Nope, just fatigue and lack of quality in the squad is the reality of the situation.

1) We used the formation before and it worked - during a time when Rashford was injured, Pogba was unavailable, Greenwood was still not ready. We didnt have an alternative but to play 5 at the back.

2) Great, in a fatigued back line, lets add a extra defender to help us defend along with the 3 who are fatigued, cause 1 extra defender will cover for 3 defenders? Add one more defender will help Lindelof and Maguire pass better too? So if our LW is fatigued, the way you put it we whould play 2 LW's? to cover the fatigued one?

3) We played with 2 attackers.... 2/11. Fergie didnt go to a back 5 when he counter attacked, he played extra midfielder to help defend better, not invite the opponent to the penalty area. So how many counter attacks did we have yesterday?

4) The times this season we played 5 at the back, our strength was defending, our attack has been poor all season.

5) Who's squad is it? Who is in charge of making sure the players are not fatigued?

 

[dalriada]

I know this is a forum and the idea is for people to air their views, but Ole is going nowhere unless some major calamity happens and I can't think what that would be at this stage of the season after the most unprecedented set of events in my lifetime.
The club knows we're still a way from being the finished article and I don't think they're going to start a rebuild all over again after we've got this far and looking the best we've been as a progressing team since SAF retired. We've gone out of the FA Cup often in my lifetime, so this defeat doesn't change anything.

 

[jem]

I have serious doubts about whether Ole is good enough for United, but I don't think he should be sacked. It's a conundrum.

 

[SER19]

Are you asking from patience from our fans? We don't do that here.

Nearly every opposition fan, journalist (Henry Winter gave an interview yesterday to Stretford Paddock) and neutrals believe that we are on the right track, we've made progress and this is the best we've been in the post-SAF years, but our armchair critics believe that none of it is true.

I really think people don't appreciate that change can't happen overnight. I don't think he's bulletproof and certainly if we fail to get CL from here the dissenters will have a much stronger case.

But literally anybody can see we are playing far better than any time post fergie and he has also made the biggest squad overhaul in the shortest time of all managers too.

What we need next for ole or any manager is quality in depth. If you look at what other top clubs have on the bench it makes a huge difference over course of a season. Losing the likes of Jones, lingard, possibly dalot and bringing in 3 or 4 quality players that will give genuine competition for first team spots is the next step for this teams progress. We need to be able to rest martial or fernandes for example, without such a big drop in quality.

We are clearly getting there imo. If we finish third and win europa, every fan would have taken that in August.

 

[Keefy18]

1) We used the formation before and it worked - during a time when Rashford was injured, Pogba was unavailable, Greenwood was still not ready. We didnt have an alternative but to play 5 at the back.

I'll just point out he had Ighalo and Greenwood on the bench vs City in the final game pre lock down. He started James with Martial, exactly the same front 2 vs Chelsea yesterday. He had options clearly vs City and opted for the same line up pretty much in both games.

Just on a separate note with Pogba, I'll add he has played 240 mins approx in 9 days in tough fixtures. Giving him a rest wasn't really that surprising.

2) Great, in a fatigued back line, lets add a extra defender to help us defend along with the 3 who are fatigued, cause 1 extra defender will cover for 3 defenders? Add one more defender will help Lindelof and Maguire pass better too? So if our LW is fatigued, the way you put it we whould play 2 LW's? to cover the fatigued one?

Thought it obvious how that would work?

If you've a back 5 obviously its more condensed and less area of the pitch to cover meaning less leg work. Sadly due to yet another Bailly injury we went back to the flat 4, not like you can predict injuries to certain individuals is it?

3) We played with 2 attackers.... 2/11. Fergie didnt go to a back 5 when he counter attacked, he played extra midfielder to help defend better, not invite the opponent to the penalty area. So how many counter attacks did we have yesterday?

You can play counter football with a back 3, 4 or 5? Not sure what point you are making here. It doesn't matter how many defenders you have the idea is still the same that you soak up pressure and hit them on the break quickly. It worked previously vs top sides and no reason not to believe why it would not yesterday.

Again, I don't see the formation as being the issue but simply fatigue getting the best of us and having a genuine lack of talent in the squad too.

5) Who's squad is it? Who is in charge of making sure the players are not fatigued?

Seriously?

Dear god... they are human, not androids.

This is before we address the issues around squad depth.

You do realized this is a squad that has 4 centre backs that are only fit for the exit door in Smalling, Jones, Rojo and Bailly. That's before we get to midfield and considering Mata, Lingard and Periera. Then you can add in the likes of Dalot and a keeper gifting goals to the opposition currently.

He's getting every single last feckin ounce of performance and result from a small group of about 11 or 12 players per game, almost anything out side of that is to the teams detriment and us getting results.

 

[Ole90+3]

I really think people don't appreciate that change can't happen overnight. I don't think he's bulletproof and certainly if we fail to get CL from here the dissenters will have a much stronger case.

But literally anybody can see we are playing far better than any time post fergie and he has also made the biggest squad overhaul in the shortest time of all managers too.

What we need next for ole or any manager is quality in depth. If you look at what other top clubs have on the bench it makes a huge difference over course of a season. Losing the likes of Jones, lingard, possibly dalot and bringing in 3 or 4 quality players that will give genuine competition for first team spots is the next step for this teams progress. We need to be able to rest martial or fernandes for example, without such a big drop in quality.

We are clearly getting there imo. If we finish third and win europa, every fan would have taken that in August.

Add Pereira and Mata on to that list of outgoings as well. That's 5 players likely on high wages who are making zero contribution to the squad.

 

[romufc]

I'll just point out he had Ighalo and Greenwood on the bench vs City in the final game pre lock down. He started James with Martial, exactly the same front 2 vs Chelsea yesterday. He had options clearly vs City and opted for the same line up pretty much in both games.

Just on a separate note with Pogba, I'll add he has played 240 mins approx in 9 days in tough fixtures. Giving him a rest wasn't really that surprising.




Thought it obvious how that would work?

If you've a back 5 obviously its more condensed and less area of the pitch to cover meaning less leg work. Sadly due to yet another Bailly injury we went back to the flat 4, not like you can predict injuries to certain individuals is it?



You can play counter football with a back 3, 4 or 5? Not sure what point you are making here. It doesn't matter how many defenders you have the idea is still the same that you soak up pressure and hit them on the break quickly. It worked previously vs top sides and no reason not to believe why it would not yesterday.

Again, I don't see the formation as being the issue but simply fatigue getting the best of us and having a genuine lack of talent in the squad too.



Seriously?

Dear god... they are human, not androids.

This is before we address the issues around squad depth.

You do realized this is a squad that has 4 centre backs that are only fit for the exit door in Smalling, Jones, Rojo and Bailly. That's before we get to midfield and considering Mata, Lingard and Periera. Then you can add in the likes of Dalot and a keeper gifting goals to the opposition currently.

He's getting every single last feckin ounce of performance and result from a small group of about 11 or 12 players per game, almost anything out side of that is to the teams detriment and us getting results.

I understand what you have said there, I appreciate that the system has worked before. However; if anyone watched Chelsea play, it was the perfect formation for them to play against.

They have been struggling defensively on the counter, having 2 wingers would have occupied them more.

Now in attack they like to play a 3-4-3 system with their full backs playing as wingers basically, we saw how narrow Willian and Mount were pressing our CB's.

Chelsea showed they are more suited to playing that formation, we had 0 rhythm.

 

[rotherham_red]

No, we say Ole is tactically outdated and naive. He doesn't know when to rotate players within his weak squad, leading to strong runs of wins followed by even stronger dips. We say he's also a Woodward yes man appointed because he's willing to operate without complaint within an outdated club structure geared towards money making not winning trophies.

 

[Keefy18]

I understand what you have said there, I appreciate that the system has worked before. However; if anyone watched Chelsea play, it was the perfect formation for them to play against.

They have been struggling defensively on the counter, having 2 wingers would have occupied them more.

Now in attack they like to play a 3-4-3 system with their full backs playing as wingers basically, we saw how narrow Willian and Mount were pressing our CB's.

Chelsea showed they are more suited to playing that formation, we had 0 rhythm.

Gotta remember as well, Greenwood is lucky to be walking around the last week after that shocking tackle in the Southampton game. We got him through the Palace game which was absolutely vital to win. Greenwood was rested then in turn for this and we have him fairly fresh again now for West Ham after only 30 mins of football yesterday.

The FA Cup was never really a priority and that is the cold hard truth of the matter. Would it of been nice to win? Absolutely, its a little add on, a decoration if you will to end the season on, but it shouldn't make or break a season.

I'm absolutely sure when I say this that well over 90% of the supporters said in August that CL would be the goal for Ole and he's extremely close to doing it in very difficult rebuild circumstances.

If he does that then it might not be a trophy but its progress in the league and we can use the CL as a stepping stone to continue to build the squad with.

I think RW and CB ( a pacey one with some leadership / experience) and we should add another 15 pts minimum.

 

[FreakyJim]

It was a failure of a season anyway before our unbeaten run. No one expected us to compete for top 4, at least I didn't. I'm willing to give him another season.

For me he's not a great manager but he's the right man in this moment in time. His willingness to freshen up the team is good, he trusts young players and he seems to be liked by the squad.
We can't tear everything down every two years.

Yes, he's tactically mediocre, we play outdated football compared to others, we still can't press well, we still have many many deficiencies who are down to coaching but who knows, if we manage to improve the squad further - trim more of the deadwood and fecking get more signings right (Bruno) than wrong (Magure, AWB), we might build a team for top 4, despite the Glazers and Woodward's curse.

 

[romufc]

Gotta remember as well, Greenwood is lucky to be walking around the last week after that shocking tackle in the Southampton game. We got him through the Palace game which was absolutely vital to win. Greenwood was rested then in turn for this and we have him fairly fresh again now for West Ham after only 30 mins of football yesterday.

The FA Cup was never really a priority and that is the cold hard truth of the matter. Would it of been nice to win? Absolutely, its a little add on, a decoration if you will to end the season on, but it shouldn't make or break a season.

I'm absolutely sure when I say this that well over 90% of the supporters said in August that CL would be the goal for Ole and he's extremely close to doing it in very difficult rebuild circumstances.

If he does that then it might not be a trophy but its progress in the league and we can use the CL as a stepping stone to continue to build the squad with.

I think RW and CB ( a pacey one with some leadership / experience) and we should add another 15 pts minimum.

Yes, a fresh Greenwood, Pogba and Martial should help us against West Ham.

Ofcourse, the FA cup is the least of our priorities, it was the manner of defeat which hurt. Ole should really make the fringe players look at themselves real hard. None of them have covered themselves in any sort of glory.

I agree, top 4 was the priority, we have done well to be in the picture and we still have the Europa, 3 games left in that competition.

A RW is 100% required. A CB too but I would say a CDM too, we are losing the midfield battle in most games.

 

[Halftrack]

You’d have been a ball less. Google is everyone’s friend. I can’t remember figures of €20m ever been mentioned for us. I also can’t remember any mention of a midfielder until McTominay got injured and Pogba was ruled out for surgery. But maybe that was all in my head too. Maybe Pogba was never injured, probably faking it.

So we only bought a midfielder because McTominay and Pogba were out, but we also wouldn't have bought a midfielder if Haaland, notable for not being a midfielder, had been signed.

Your logic makes perfect sense.

 

[Zen86]

It could be a good season for us (not great but good) and could be an awful season for us. I recognise both possibilities. I consider it far more moronic to ignore the bad possibilities because it "could" be a good season which is what you're doing. Also, saying my post is moronic doesn't disprove my point so if that's the best you can come up with, dont waste our time.

But by your logic, we were on a good run so all criticisms are moronic and stupid. Or does that only apply now?

And Brendan Rodgers won about 3 trebles in Scotland. Using your "logic", he did better than SAF only winning one.

Your post is moronic, but that’s what I get for

It could be a good season for us (not great but good) and could be an awful season for us. I recognise both possibilities. I consider it far more moronic to ignore the bad possibilities because it "could" be a good season which is what you're doing. Also, saying my post is moronic doesn't disprove my point so if that's the best you can come up with, dont waste our time.

But by your logic, we were on a good run so all criticisms are moronic and stupid. Or does that only apply now?

And Brendan Rodgers won about 3 trebles in Scotland. Using your "logic", he did better than SAF only winning one.

Getting top 4 will be a good season. And I’m not sure what logic leads to that conclusion either.

 

[Mainoldo]

So we only bought a midfielder because McTominay and Pogba were out, but we also wouldn't have bought a midfielder if Haaland, notable for not being a midfielder, had been signed.

Your logic makes perfect sense.

We could have brought Bruno in the summer but brought him in January instead. Why was this?

 

[Withnail]

We could have brought Bruno in the summer but brought him in January instead. Why was this?

Nobody knows the answer to that question. Anyone saying they do is speculating.

 

[Water Melon]

No CL next season no OGS at the wheel, I guess. Hopefully, we do not bottle the last 3-4 games and continue to improve under the current manager.

 

[Halftrack]

No, we say Ole is tactically outdated and naive. He doesn't know when to rotate players within his weak squad, leading to strong runs of wins followed by even stronger dips. We say he's also a Woodward yes man appointed because he's willing to operate without complaint within an outdated club structure geared towards money making not winning trophies.

Sure, if you ignore the guys who aren't doing what you're describing here, of which there are a few.

We could have brought Bruno in the summer but brought him in January instead. Why was this?

What happened to the guy who, with no uncertainty, declared that had we gotten Haaland, we wouldn't have bought Bruno? Is this your way of admitting you were full of shit, and in reality know as little as the rest of us as to whys and whens of transfers?

 

[rotherham_red]

No CL next season no OGS at the wheel, I guess. Hopefully, we do not bottle the last 3-4 games and continue to improve under the current manager.

Only if you haven't got a clue how a team is built and have no concept or understanding of the context of our season, I guess.

 

[rotherham_red]

Sure, if you ignore the guys who aren't doing what you're describing here, of which there are a few.

What happened to the guy who, with no uncertainty, declared that had we gotten Haaland, we wouldn't have bought Bruno? Is this your way of admitting you were full of shit, and in reality know as little as the rest of us as to whys and whens of transfers?

Mate, he's a glutton for punishment

The living embodiment of the Simpsons "stop, stop he's already dead meme"

 

[Water Melon]

Only if you haven't got a clue how a team is built and have no concept or understanding of the context of our season, I guess.

Stick that condescending manner up your hole. Firstly, I have much much bigger experience of pro football than you. Secondly, I believe top 4 is vital for our Board and they provided enough resources and support for Ole to achieve this goal.

 

[JPRouve]

Stick that condescending manner up your hole. Firstly, I have much much bigger experience of pro football than you. Secondly, I believe top 4 is vital for our Board and they provided enough resources and support for Ole to achieve this goal.

Does Rooney likes water melons? This reads like one of his twitter e-fights.

PS: I think that we should keep him even without CL, to me it seems that he learns quickly from his mistakes.

 

[Verminator]

Stick that condescending manner up your hole. Firstly, I have much much bigger experience of pro football than you. Secondly, I believe top 4 is vital for our Board and they provided enough resources and support for Ole to achieve this goal.

What experience do you have that gives you insider knowledge from the United boardroom?

 

[He'sRaldo]

Does Rooney likes water melons? This reads like one of his twitter e-fights.

PS: I think that we should keep him even without CL, to me it seems that he learns quickly from his mistakes.

I'm curious what gives you that impression?

 

[Water Melon]

Does Rooney likes water melons? This reads like one of his twitter e-fights.

PS: I think that we should keep him even without CL, to me it seems that he learns quickly from his mistakes.

WR is an icon, while WM is just a guy who had to quit pro football at the age of 18 after doing his knee. Had the privilege of being coached by Lobanovskyi though. As for Ole, I do not see an elite manager in him. Hopefully, he proves us, the doubters wrong.

 

[Mainoldo]

Sure, if you ignore the guys who aren't doing what you're describing here, of which there are a few.

What happened to the guy who, with no uncertainty, declared that had we gotten Haaland, we wouldn't have bought Bruno? Is this your way of admitting you were full of shit, and in reality know as little as the rest of us as to whys and whens of transfers?

No I would have just said I didn’t know what I was talking about. It’s not hard but anyway... We refused to pay the money for Bruno in the summer and it’s no coincidence the money for Bruno appeared once the Haaland deal fell through.

But it’s just my silly Essien calculations. But watch it be everyones 'solid knowledge' when the board and funds topic is up for debate again.

 

[Mainoldo]

Mate, he's a glutton for punishment

The living embodiment of the Simpsons "stop, stop he's already dead meme"

You okay fella. I mean for a man that tries his hardest to ignore me you can’t get my name out your mouth. I appreciate the love but at the same time if you want to talk to me I’m always here for you.

 

[JPRouve]

I'm curious what gives you that impression?

He has changed the way he uses subs, he doesn't insist too much when players underperform and he has adapted the way we play to the best players at his disposal. To me it seems that he isn't stubborn. Despite the fact that he isn't a "young" manager he acts like one which gives me hope that he will continue to evolve and avoid some of the mistakes that he still makes in terms of game time management for key players.

Also he doesn't sound like PR guy anymore, that one used to grate me, he sounded fake for the first 6-7 months.

 

[Water Melon]

What experience do you have that gives you insider knowledge from the United boardroom?

Look at how and when our previsous managers were fired. Look at the support Ole got from the Board. No need for insider knowledge to see that:

a)Ole has been backed heavily
b) Qualifying for CL is an extremely important goal for the Board.
Now show me where I said, I had an insider knowledge about the Board's decisions. As you have no knowledge of it whatsoever either, I doubt you can say anything on the matter except for a guess.

 

[Foxbatt]

Ole won't be sacked this season. If we go belly up next season yes he will be replaced.

 

[He'sRaldo]

He has changed the way he uses subs, he doesn't insist too much when players underperform and he has adapted the way we play to the best players at his disposal. To me it seems that he isn't stubborn. Despite the fact that he isn't a "young" manager he acts like one which gives me hope that he will continue to evolve and avoid some of the mistakes that he still makes in terms of game time management for key players.

Also he doesn't sound like PR guy anymore, that one used to grate me, he sounded fake for the first 6-7 months.

How recently are you talking about with these? Because I've always thought these were some of his flaws.

 

[Wilt]

Ole won't be sacked this season. If we go belly up next season yes he will be replaced.

Thanks for the insight Mr Woodward ...good to know

 

[JPRouve]

How recently are you talking about with these? Because I've always thought these were some of his flaws.

It is one of his flaws but I think that he is improving with time, in 2020 with better player at his disposal I think that he is changing.

 

[rotherham_red]

Stick that condescending manner up your hole. Firstly, I have much much bigger experience of pro football than you. Secondly, I believe top 4 is vital for our Board and they provided enough resources and support for Ole to achieve this goal.

yeah, of course you're the expert, that's why instead of being at the cutting edge of the game, you're... spending time on this message board, I guess(?)

 

[Water Melon]

yeah, of course you're the expert, that's why instead of being at the cutting edge of the game, you're... spending time on this message board, I guess(?)

More knowledgeable on football than you will ever be. So, again, stick that condescending tone and manner to yourself and up your hole.

 

[glazed]

Sure, if you ignore the guys who aren't doing what you're describing here, of which there are a few.

Please don't judge the case by its worst advocates. The case for keeping Ole is the same as the case for keeping every other manager we ever sacked - we are proper fans and we're loyal to the gaffer. The case against is that he isn't good enough. Boils down to the same choice every time.

 

[lysglimt]

people are forgetting Poch improves players and got an average squad Spurs into the top 4 every season bar 1 and a champions league final, something we have not done for 10 years while our biggest rival have won the two biggest trophies in the past 2 years, if he goes to Newcastle with a pot of gold and suddenly does what Pep has done at City will the same people come back on this forum and say we should have signed him In 2020 when Ole 7th or 8th with a 45% win rate next season, I genuinely love Ole and want him to succeed but everything in his makeup tells me he’s not quite ruthless enough to be a truly elite Manager!

And OGS has a great chance of achieving top-4 in his first full season - your point being ?

 

[Verminator]

Look at how and when our previsous managers were fired. Look at the support Ole got from the Board. No need for insider knowledge to see that:

a)Ole has been backed heavily
b) Qualifying for CL is an extremely important goal for the Board.
Now show me where I said, I had an insider knowledge about the Board's decisions. As you have no knowledge of it whatsoever either, I doubt you can say anything on the matter except for a guess.

Apologies for not realising you had separated your "pro knowledge" from your opinion on what the board would do. My bad for not recognising the "secondly" in your statement.

I have no knowledge as to how the board would respond to the scenario of missing out on top 4, but then I haven't claimed to either.

 

[bsCallout]

What if the following happens -

Chelsea lose both games.

We win against West Ham, Draw vs Leicester.

We get third, Leicester get fourth on GD.

Chelsea lose FA cup final.

We win EL.

Would Ole be the genius?

 

[rotherham_red]

More knowledgeable on football than you will ever be. So, again, stick that condescending tone and manner to yourself and up your hole.