Yes, we do. I don't know how you could suggest otherwise.We don’t have a shite squad at all
But none of those would come to United.This thread does my head in.
If Ole isn't the man because his CV is poor , it boggles my mind that the same Ole out group are championing Poch, Nagelsmann, Rose and other random no names who all have won sweet feck all of note in their careers.
It doesn't make sense.
If you want champions you talk about Pep, Klopp, Conte or Zidane. If none are available, stick with Ole.
Agree with your general point, but I don't think the Burnley/Brighton argument is fair. Some managers take a poor/average team and make them decent, but cannot make a good team great (Dyche perhaps?). Others, like Pep who's arguably the best, can make a very good team truly great, but would probably fail with a lesser team as his philosophy needs players of a high standard to work. The astronomical level he can reach given the right players justifies his philosophy however.It's not hard to see at this point that he relies heavily on individual quality. Give him one of these lower teams and he would have gotten Burnley or Brighton relegated. That's my problem with him
No question? There's always questions. If you sack Ole because he's a 'loser', why go from one loser to another?But none of those would come to United.
So what do we do? Stick with an average manager? Poch, Nangelsmann etc may not have won anything but its no question they are better managers than Ole!
It’s not his C.V it’s his history in management backed by his poor C.V., backed by his current job he’s doing now.This thread does my head in.
If Ole isn't the man because his CV is poor , it boggles my mind that the same Ole out group are championing Poch, Nagelsmann, Rose and other random no names who all have won sweet feck all of note in their careers.
It doesn't make sense.
If you want champions you talk about Pep, Klopp, Conte or Zidane. If none are available, stick with Ole.
He's challenging for top 4 in his first full season. He's doing alright so far.It’s not his C.V it’s his history in management backed by his poor C.V., backed by his current job he’s doing now.
Well spoken Champ!!! We have an important game on Sunday. We need to be United!!I see this thread has had some activity... The spineless whiners among us really do have no shame.
We are off the boil, and yes Ole has made mistakes during this little run, but we have it in our hands still.
Do that thing that you all profess to do: support the fecking club!
Because it's not a binary choice between a potential best manager in the world, and Ole. Ole has improved us to some degree, but we are still far from where we want to be. Logically if we get in someone who's better than Ole though still not best in the world level, he'll get us closer to where we want to be than Ole would. That's a good thing right?No question? There's always questions. If you sack Ole because he's a 'loser', why go from one loser to another?
Swapping between losers isn't gonna win titles.
“Cannon fodder” are often the toughest fixtures at this point in the season. Hence all the big teams have dropped points against teams in or around the relegation zone. Which happens every season.Maybe i'm being too critical, but have we actually beaten any relatively decent side since the restart?
Spurs - draw
Soton - draw
Chelsea - lost
Perhaps you can say we beat sheffield United comfortably. Other than that, we've beaten the cannon fodders like B'mouth, villa, brighton. Scraped through against Norwich and god knows we were lucky again palace.
So. Steve Bruce could have done that for us with this starting 11.He's challenging for top 4 in his first full season. He's doing alright so far.
That's a baseless claim. However, our Top 4 challenge has been massively helped by our traditional rivals being garbage as well.So. Steve Bruce could have done that for us with this starting 11.
Well then let's put Brucey's name in the pot as well. He's won as many big league titles as Poch and Naglesmann combined anyway.So. Steve Bruce could have done that for us with this starting 11.
His claim was baseless too so it was only right.That's a baseless claim. However, our Top 4 challenge has been massively helped by our traditional rivals being garbage as well.
Chelsea - transfer ban and rookie, unproven manager who looks tactically naive
Spurs - burnt out squad under Mourinho
Arsenal - weak squad under a rookie, unproven manager.
Leicester, Wolves etc. - should not even have been expected to challenge.
All our rivals being garbage does not justify or excuse us being garbage as well.
Let’s not. He’s a crap manager.Well then let's put Brucey's name in the pot as well. He's won as many big league titles as Poch and Naglesmann combined anyway.
Are you telling me that the squad at the start of the season is better that what Pep inherited at City? Or what Klopp had assembled before they went into CL finals?We don’t have a shite squad at all
He actually won 13. What divine right do Madrid and Barca have to be at the top of spanish football, bayern in germany or juventus in italy. It's about mentality. Either you adopt an arsenal mentality of happy with just taking part and winning the odd cup here and there or the chelsea mentality of if we are not challenging for the pl and cl it's a failure. One is big club mentality and the other is small time. We are shifting towards the wrong end of the spectrum.Nice history lesson, but Fergie was a complete anomaly. He won 12 of our 20 league titles, where the other 8 are spread over half a century. We dont have a divine right to be on the top
What current manager out there looks to be the next Fergie? None as far as i can tell
Well said.Its not about waiting for Ole to be ready. Its about waiting for the team to be ready. Ole came in and took over a team bereft of character & low on confidence, with i suspect a very 'laid back' attitude amongst many of the squad. People had to go, and they were sold.
You have to put the foundations in place before you can start building the team. This is where Ole has done so well. He is changing the culture of the club again, and I've said it dozens of times on here but for me the guy is a year ahead of schedule. He's done an absolutely outstanding job IMO, but he still has a lot of work to do to change this team into winners.
Fans being fans though they are impatient, and expectations change almost with every game. We've seen glimpses of what this group of players are capable of, but this is still a young team - not just in age but also in how much football and time they've had together.
Boring arguments which are just all relative to anyone’s objective. If your backing Mourinho he took over a rubbish United team. If you aren’t backing him he took over a team which finished level on points to City and missed out on Champs League by goal difference. These debates are rubbish as you can argue either way and if your loud enough with your points you are right.Are you telling me that the squad at the start of the season is better that what Pep inherited at City? Or what Klopp had assembled before they went into CL finals?
Hell in terms of creativity, among our backups, Mata is the most creative arguably (among him, AP, Lingard, James) and he is pretty much finished.
I get what you're saying but even with the bolded bit - Ole didnt exactly do that. He should've taken off Bruno around the 60th min mark when we've been 2 or 3 nil up.
I know most games were must wins, but rotating 1 player would not have caused us to lose momentum. For example playing Fred instead of Matic v 'bmouth and i'm sure we would've still ended up winning. The post lockdown period should've been all about near term game management, something Fergie was brilliant at. Ole has failed in that department and we can now only hope that doesnt cost us a top 4 position.
4 games in 9-10 days, he was subbed off only once and that was in 84th min.He's taken Bruno off most games when we've been two goals up, hasn't he?
Not in the Bournemouth one but we had a 5-day break after that.
Am I missing something?
Great counter argument mate.
AWB - TFM or Dalot. Both replacements are barely PL quality. How do we know?
Shaw - Williams. I rate Williams highly, but he's nowhere near the finished article.
Hence why he’s the backup. I was told Williams was planned which is why we didn’t bring in a LB.
Lindelof, Maguire - Jones, Rojo, Bailly. All injury-prone, reckless, and unreliable.
Keep Smalling and get rid of the rest then. He had all summer to decide this.
Matic - Fred, Mctominay. These two were excellent pre-lockdown, they carried us at one point, but they have returned a shadow of those players.
And.... that’s not up to him to manage that? He gets credit when they play well.
Bruno, Pogba - Periera, Lingard. 'Nuff said.
There not the best but if you stop playing them as number 10’s and get them to do a job for the team on the RW the balance is fine
Martial, Rashford, Greenwood - Mata, James, Chong. Mata is well past his best, James made a promising start to the season but fell off dramatically, and Chong makes Bebe look talented.
For the same money we got Daniel James we could have got Saint Maximum (Poor scouting) Angel Gomes was also available all season.
It doesn't require a vast knowledge of football to see the astounding drop in quality when comparing our starting eleven with their replacements.
Now imagine being Ole and faced with those options when picking your team.
You can support the club while also having concerns about the managementI see this thread has had some activity... The spineless whiners among us really do have no shame.
We are off the boil, and yes Ole has made mistakes during this little run, but we have it in our hands still.
Do that thing that you all profess to do: support the fecking club!
Only because Leicester have gift wrapped it for us. It’s a pretty poor points totalHe's challenging for top 4 in his first full season. He's doing alright so far.
Pointless. You're engaging a guy who will not listen. These are the guys who started by saying they'd only accept Ole if he stopped just playing counter-attacking football and started beating "cannon fodder". Do that and now it's other stuff. Goalposts will continue to shift.Are you telling me that the squad at the start of the season is better that what Pep inherited at City? Or what Klopp had assembled before they went into CL finals?
Hell in terms of creativity, among our backups, Mata is the most creative arguably (among him, AP, Lingard, James) and he is pretty much finished.
Absolutely different situations. Firstly, Barca and Madrid get a disproportionately higher share of the league's money so can always outspend most clubs. This over and above the historical appeal and (specially for Real Madrid) state backing. Oh and despite all this, look at the shape Barca are now in. Financial turmoil and also turmoil on the pitch with only a Messi-shaped plaster holding them afloat. Previously Real Madrid have flirted with disaster, only to need the state to help out - before Florentino completely revamped the club. Please look up what the La Liga is structured like. It's not without reason that people celebrate Atleti "crashing the party" as something bordering on a miracle.He actually won 13. What divine right do Madrid and Barca have to be at the top of spanish football, bayern in germany or juventus in italy. It's about mentality. Either you adopt an arsenal mentality of happy with just taking part and winning the odd cup here and there or the chelsea mentality of if we are not challenging for the pl and cl it's a failure. One is big club mentality and the other is small time. We are shifting towards the wrong end of the spectrum.
We weren't 2 or 3 nil up in those games though were we?4 games in 9-10 days, he was subbed off only once and that was in 84th min.
I get what you're saying but even with the bolded bit - Ole didnt exactly do that. He should've taken off Bruno around the 60th min mark when we've been 2 or 3 nil up.
What.We always make managers stay for too long where they end up having a detrimental affect on their good work. Ole will be the same if we give him another season.
Fair enough, I didnt read that properly.We weren't 2 or 3 nil up in those games though were we?
I was responding to this:
Moyes should have never been appointment and should have went after the Newcastle defeat. LVG should have gone by Xmas and Mourinho should never have got that third season that all clubs dread with him. The board have no balls.What.
Moyes stayed for less than a season. Van Gaal stayed for two seasons. Mourinho stayed for two and a half. Do you honestly think we should change the manager literally every season?!
We are one of the richest clubs in the world if not the richest club. We can outspend anyone apart form the state run clubs. The point is not we should never have setbacks and down years as a club, the point is we can never lose our "divine right to be at the top of football" It's about mentality. We are losing our big club mentality and it's shocking a lot of the fan base don't recognise that their lower standards for ole are contributing to this.Pointless. You're engaging a guy who will not listen. These are the guys who started by saying they'd only accept Ole if he stopped just playing counter-attacking football and started beating "cannon fodder". Do that and now it's other stuff. Goalposts will continue to shift.
Absolutely different situations. Firstly, Barca and Madrid get a disproportionately higher share of the league's money so can always outspend most clubs. This over and above the historical appeal and (specially for Real Madrid) state backing. Oh and despite all this, look at the shape Barca are now in. Financial turmoil and also turmoil on the pitch with only a Messi-shaped plaster holding them afloat. Previously Real Madrid have flirted with disaster, only to need the state to help out - before Florentino completely revamped the club. Please look up what the La Liga is structured like. It's not without reason that people celebrate Atleti "crashing the party" as something bordering on a miracle.
That's Ed 'protecting his assets' which is a complete nonsense as you can't then get them off the books when you want to. Should be 1 year-rolling when they're in their 30s.not to mention he gave new contracts to Mata and Jones, two of the apparently useless players.
Haha, you might wanna look at the squad options of the team that are current PL Champions and also won the CL last season...AWB - TFM or Dalot. Both replacements are barely PL quality.
Shaw - Williams. I rate Williams highly, but he's nowhere near the finished article.
Lindelof, Maguire - Jones, Rojo, Bailly. All injury-prone, reckless, and unreliable.
Matic - Fred, Mctominay. These two were excellent pre-lockdown, they carried us at one point, but they have returned a shadow of those players.
Bruno, Pogba - Periera, Lingard. 'Nuff said.
Martial, Rashford, Greenwood - Mata, James, Chong. Mata is well past his best, James made a promising start to the season but fell off dramatically, and Chong makes Bebe look talented.
It doesn't require a vast knowledge of football to see the astounding drop in quality when comparing our starting eleven with their replacements.
Now imagine being Ole and faced with those options when picking your team.
We should change a manager when they’re not good enough. I’m all for stability with the right manager- Ole is not that personWhat.
Moyes stayed for less than a season. Van Gaal stayed for two seasons. Mourinho stayed for two and a half. Do you honestly think we should change the manager literally every season?!
