It’s just an opinion from a fan that believes in the vision of Ole..
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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They don’t but if we wanna win it next year them leaving would create the prefect situation for us to go on a title charge.
It’s a little negative but I see them both taking a break from football especially after this season and what will be an especially busy season this year.
1st Full season,
- 3rd best team
- 3 SFs, Treble semi-finals
The fact that these 3 teams do it well doesn't mean we need to also. I'd like to see it, but there are many other options.
The reason we did so well against City and Liverpool was our ability to counter when we broke the press. Athletico have done that to great effect - and this has become their football philosophy.
Btw the Madrid team that won 3 UCLs in a row was not an intense pressing team. Benzema and Ronaldo were anything but pressers!
Memories are short in football. if you examine it carefully, you will find that an average football “fan” has knees that have evolved to be able to jerk in the most efficient manner.
Amen to that.
It would suit me just fine if Salah, Mane & VVD and, while we’re at it, Sterling & Aguero, would piss off too!
I agree with all this. My perspective is that intensive pressing is by far the best way of grinding out wins against average teams. As has been noted many times, our record against top six opponents is fairly good. It's the lesser sides we struggle with (relative to the pressing sides).
Actually, post lockdown - we have been very good against the lesser sides without an intense press.
Good teams will find a way to play around it. Look at Pep's failures in CL with City. Liverpool have won it last year, but lost massively this year.
I know you are clearly a fan of the intense pressing style of play - but that's not something every club needs to do.
I rather see United play with genuine quality out wide, and dominate games in midfield with one - two touch football from back to front (apart from wing play!).
There is something super exciting about your winger turning the opponents defense inside out and scoring /assisting.
Aesthetically I agree with you. But it's also hard to argue City and Dippers are playing ugly football. And it's quite clear that they are consistently better at taking points off the average sides. I mean that's where the league is won and lost.
It may be that Ole can put together an old fashioned Manchester United side that wins the league, if he's given enough money. But I doubt he will be and I'm not convinced it would work if he was. Liverpool have shown you don't have to be rich if you are smart.
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Liverpool have amongst the top wage bills in the premier league. They haven't been scant about spending by any means. They have reduced spending over the last year and will be skanty this summer. But I don't buy into the 'you don't have to be rich if you are smart' thing.
Liverpool broke the transfer record for a goalkeeper and a defender in the space of 6 months... But sure, "YoU dOnT hAvE tO bE rIcH iF yOuR'E sMaRt"
Klopp being Klopp and Barca being idiots by committing themselves to pay £140m for Coutinho is what has won the title for Liverpool. Otherwise, this is the same brains trust that thought Rickie fecking Lambert would replace Luis Suarez.
I've always said it, a good manager masks almost every sin that a football board commits, even the most cardinal. Pre-Pep Soriano and Begiristein were spunking 8 figure sums up the wall on a regular basis, buying unmitigated shite like Demichelis, Negredo, Jovetic, Bony, Mangala, Navas, and Sagna. While I don't need to say anything on Liverpool's vaunted transfer committee...
Pep managed to change his situation round quickly because of the scale of resources available to him at City, as well as him already having arguably the best collection of talent in the league. Klopp took a while to change the situation at Pool and the pace of Ole's change is somewhere in the middle between these two - quicker than Klopp, but not as quick as Pep.
I think a lot of people underestimate the job that Ole has done here. He's essentially condensed two seasons' worth of transition into one. He took an almighty risk going in to last season with the squad as small as he had it, but post-Bruno no one can say anything other than it paid off handsomely.
You said it Barca being idiots, paid 140m for Coutinho and Klopp being a top manager invested wise on Alisson (De Gea is better imo) and VVD which was a real bargain at 75m for his quality.
On the other hand we broke the transfer record for a mediocre defender that can't run, can't turn and can't head the ball in attacking set pieces.
Also Navas completely destroyed us every time we faced him. Even more recently in the Europa League. Our full backs didn't have shit against him
I don't think its as easy as just having a good manager and expecting league titles, it helps of course but Liverpool turned around their scouting / transfer set up and its reaped huge rewards. I think a lot of credit should go to Micheal Edwards as well their sporting director (started in Nov 16) with the likes of Lambert, Benteke, Allen etc moved on.Liverpool broke the transfer record for a goalkeeper and a defender in the space of 6 months... But sure, "YoU dOnT hAvE tO bE rIcH iF yOuR'E sMaRt"
Klopp being Klopp and Barca being idiots by committing themselves to pay £140m for Coutinho is what has won the title for Liverpool. Otherwise, this is the same brains trust that thought Rickie fecking Lambert would replace Luis Suarez.
I've always said it, a good manager masks almost every sin that a football board commits, even the most cardinal. Pre-Pep Soriano and Begiristein were spunking 8 figure sums up the wall on a regular basis, buying unmitigated shite like Demichelis, Negredo, Jovetic, Bony, Mangala, Navas, and Sagna. While I don't need to say anything on Liverpool's vaunted transfer committee...
Pep managed to change his situation round quickly because of the scale of resources available to him at City, as well as him already having arguably the best collection of talent in the league. Klopp took a while to change the situation at Pool and the pace of Ole's change is somewhere in the middle between these two - quicker than Klopp, but not as quick as Pep.
I think a lot of people underestimate the job that Ole has done here. He's essentially condensed two seasons' worth of transition into one. He took an almighty risk going in to last season with the squad as small as he had it, but post-Bruno no one can say anything other than it paid off handsomely.
You can see by the figure below - I hope they are accurate - that at the start of this season we have spent more than Liverpool in every single department. What we had failed to do is increase the value of our players. Liverpool and Spurs clearly win the value for money league. City more or less got what they paid for.
How much every Premier League club has spent on members of their current squad by summer 2019:
1) Manchester City - €1.014bn
2) Manchester United - €751m
3) Liverpool - €639m
4) Chelsea - €561m
5) Arsenal - €498m
6) Everton - €486m
Estimated market value summer 2019
1. Manchester City - £1.15bn
2. Liverpool - £965.03m
3. Tottenham Hotspur - £885.6m
4. Chelsea - £726.3m
5. Manchester United - £677.93m
6. Arsenal - £615.38m
2020 wage bill
Manchester United £332 million
Liverpool £264 million
Manchester City £260 million
Chelsea £244 million
Arsenal £223 million
Tottenham £148 million
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I'm not sure what your argument is in the first paragraph - all of that is true, and it's pretty much the same as what Ole did with Bruno, where those purchases were the catalyst for the marked improvement required for Liverpool to get to the next level.
For someone who you think is such a shit defender that he can't even do the basics you listed, Maguire hasn't half had an impact considering we conceded over a third less than what we had the season before, and that we also had more clean sheets than anyone else in Europe...
And on Navas, did he feck
I'm not saying it's as easy as that, but a good-great manager covers up so much shit. Look at us under Fergie.
Liverpool still have the same people in their transfer committee as when Hodgson and Rodgers were there. It's predominantly the same people running the sporting operation from top to bottom. Except, rather than having Rodgers' input, it's Klopp - someone who had a clear idea of how he wanted to play and is very much his own man, rather than Rodgers who after 2013/14 was very much caught between a rock and a hard place.
In fact, if you actually looked at FSG and the Glazers, there's very little difference between the two in terms of their ownership model. Where we once had Fergie, they now have Klopp.
How's that team (Sporting Director etc) getting on now?
Don't get me wrong, of course it certainly helps them having Klopp. He's a superb at man management and tactically astute.
It's not quite the same at all, Edwards has moved through 4 different roles with the last being the Sporting Director role and success following shortly thereafter. Very much believe he is an important cog in the Liverpool set up.
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...ws/michael-edwards-real-story-behind-17994543
It also takes time for structures to be rolled out, put into practice and then to see some benefit of the labor, I doubt they were going to hit the ground running the minute Edwards stepped into the role in 2011. Much the same way Klopp was far from an immediate success when he rocked up to Anfield in November 2015.
I very much believe for a club to be successful over a period of time it requires multiple levels all working in tandem with a solid structure and all at their best.
I'd say pretty bloody good, they are PL champions?
No Werner no Lewis and probably no Thiago. I’d say there f’ing up. League or no league. Ed wouldn’t get away with that level of requirement. So I still disagree.
What a ridiculous stance to take, ignore the fact they won the league at a trot but cause they miss out on a couple of players they are failing?
Even if they signed absolutely no one this summer its up to other clubs to catch up to them.
PS... There's still a month left in the transfer window!
Christ some football supporters are so incredibly fickle and have short term memories!
It’s not stupid at all. I really just don’t get your hype. You bigging guys up who messed up a VVD transfer originally and then had to overpay. Then your rating them for basically re-investing their Coutinho money. Which was well spent but they’ve hardly made amazing signings since.
It’s all amazing when your winning isn’t it. Until the wheels fall off then everyone what’s the pick at this and that. If we sold Pogba for £150m I’m sure we would have spent well too. Ed’s not getting a pat on the back is he.
I’m just fed up of the hype. Money Ball method etc etc. The best thing they did was hire Klopp. That’s it. If they hired Mourinho and gave him the same players I’ll tell you what this season would have been worth an all or nothing documentary.
It's not hype, its facts.
I'll just point out they lost their best player 3 seasons on the bounce in Suarez, Sterling and Coutinho and then went on to recruit arguably the best CB in the world and one of the worlds best keepers. They've dug out absolute gems like Robertson from Hull for 8M!! Let that sink in... 8m!! Widjnaldum from Newcastle for a bargain, Fabinho another for a respectable fee... Their front 3 was bought for only slightly more than we paid for that absolute cabbage Lukaku!
They've made back to back CL finals, finished 2nd and won the PL... As much as it pains me to see how good they've been in recent years, credit where it is due. They are a brilliantly ran club from top to bottom.
Again, read the link I provided and read about how Edwards role has changed through his time there.
I get all that and it was a great achievement for them. But as for Edwards, he’s got Klopp and because of that everything looks good. It’s that simple.
If Rodgers won the league with them they’d have gassed that guy in charge talking about how he masterplanned Suarez, got Sterling from QPR early. Seriously don’t fall for it. A lot of clubs do good work. What matters is what happens on the pitch.
I'm not sure of your point. A measurement of growth is not the same as a measurement of total.
I’m not sure if you’re saying all clubs are run equally well, probably not, but I think you might be underplaying the importance of the quality of support a coach gets from the money men. Klopp is the key man but he is in an environment that suits and empowers him. I wouldn’t give Edwards any more credit than that though.
In any case, the higher the quality of all the cogs, the smoother the machine runs.
What the feck has this thread become? It’s a “let’s complain about everything United and blame it on Solskjaer” thread.
Don’t know why some of you bother getting out of bed in the morning
Don’t know why some of you bother getting out of bed in the morning
Yeah I’m not saying that at all. I agree they all help, I’d be ignorant to think all clubs a run the same. I think what I was trying to get across is the importance of backroom excellence as some may point it, is not half the way as important as the man you have in charge or the players on the pitch. Too much importance is given on that these days.
Frankenstein's monster of a thread
There was a time it was filled with obnoxious, pro-Ole sarcasm.
It's filled with bad takes from both sides.
Pointing out wage bill was more than 264 million.
It's the way clubs are set up these days, the manager doesn't have as much involvement as our last great manager SAF.
He had a death grip on all aspects right across the club and wouldn't let go of anything, that is not normal for clubs these days at all.
Even United without a Sporting Director / DOF, call it whatever you will...still have set up a new analytical team for player performance / scouting and also our transfer structure has changed. It isn't all Ole alone doing this, same way at any other top club these days there are huge teams involved in various aspects.
I mean were in the generation where folks are continually blaming Ed / Glazers for our downfall in recent years and absolving managers of all the blame aren't we?
Definitely to keep him for at least two more seasons. Our previous managers did a huge harm with the transfers and the attitude of the players so now Ole has to clean everything and to rebuild it from almost the scratch.
Feel so sorry for Ole having to come out and put a positive spin on things after seeing everyone else around us improve their squad while he has his hands tied behind his back
We should know tomorrow. I think for the sake of his reputation if he doesn't get any new players he should resign. Yes he would miss a couple of million dollars he would get if he is sacked.
He's not rebuilding anything if the whole reason for him being here is just to put a positive spin on us not investing in the team and never trying for anything more than a top four finish.
He dug himself out a massive hole post-Bruno and I was fine with giving him this season to prove himself but the more time goes by and the more he talks the clearer it becomes that, as far as the Glazers are concerned, he's not there for his managerial ability, but rather to keep the fans at bay while the club is left to decay.
Jose burned all the bridges but at least he didn't let the owners and Woodward walk all over him without letting the press know about it.
What is it about Ole’s career with us as a player and manager and the way he handles himself makes you think he’s a walkover?
Genuinely curious to hear why you would think that because i see nothing
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