We have a strong squad, yes we didnt get Sancho but so we cant use that as excuse just look at our bench tonight. This is best squad we've had in years, Ole needs to get us winning this season. LVG and Jose won with worse squads.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Its not Sancho, it is the lack of quality players signed. Our team are not that much different from last season apart from VDB.
Agreed - us struggling against low block teams is a bit of an old talking point that I think has been remedied by playing two creative players in the same team (Bruno/VDB + Pogba). We're making small improvements every game and Ole is learning which players he can and cannot trust in different types of games. I appreciate how he's risked playing the long game with this team and it looks like its really paying off.
VDB, Telles and Cavani arent quality? If we stop playing 4231 then first 11 changes completely the above players can be starters.
inconsistent is the latest way of criticising Ole when we have a great result
it was all about finishing in the top four until.... we finished in the top four
there was a period when it was all about not beating the teams that sit back, then we started beating them and it was about patterns of play or some shit
VDB is a great addition but not above Bruno. The fact we signed him feels like we were lucky to have VDS with Ajax. Telles was not even our first choice and if you put in Cavani in there I have to question your football knowledge. The fact he was available all throughout summer and we got him right at the last minute showed United board themselves don't think he is a must-get.
All three signings plus the youngsters are not going to make us title contenders this year. Where was our upgrade on Lindelof? Where was our right winger? Where was our Timo Werner type signing?
Ole is proving why the board is hampering us. We can win games with Ole but without the extra quality we should not be hoping for winning the title. You are saying our squad is better than Liverpool, City and Chelsea.
His real test is winning a major trophy. This is the whole point of him managing us, to be back winning trophies. My biggest problem with Ole in supporters is they keep telling us it is a process and are not clear about the timeline for winning trophies. But lately after cornering some of them you get the answer "they expect him to challenge next year". I understand that, but I think a good manager with the resources we have should not wait 4 years to win the league. To me as I united supporter nothing sweeter than winning trophies with a club legend as a manager. But I will not let his legend status affect my judgment about him.
Are you counting his 6 or 7 weeks as permanent manager as a full season now
In his 3rd season, good results mean Ole is good, bad results mean Ole is bad, that is the definition of inconsistency.
Everything goes back to the manager.
3rd season...
We also need to remember that, except VDB we get all other players on last day of transfer window when we already played 3 PL games.
All our transfer business could have done before season start but for some reason it done on last day.
You can't aspect these players going to hit the ground running at first game.
There is a reason why all team have Pre-Season.
Thing is I don't get it. We look world class a few matches and then we look a championship team a few matches, there is no middle ground.
Is it as simple as teams who attack us, we can beat them on the counter. The teams that are defensive we have to rely on individual ability alone and if the individual quality doesn't get us through we struggle.
I'll give some the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are seeing isn't sackable offences as they are asking for today.
It's funny seeing the goalposts shift from comments like "Cardiff", "patterns of play", "PE teacher" to "consistency" and "winning trophies" (basically winning every game) so that they can still be 'right'.
Its pathetic.
Has a Conspiracy theory Vibe to it where people just move the goal posts when they get hammered on one theory. You honestly can never be wrong.
If we won a trophy it would move to has to win champs league as klopp got to finals and won one before he won the league, honestly that is how stupid it gets at times.
You didn't corner anyone if this answer is pointed towards me. Progress takes time. Without time you get nothing. This is his second season he is in charge. 2nd! If we don't take inte account half season when he replaced Mourinho. So 2,5 years. According to you a good manager would win league with our resources without waiting 4 years. Van Gaal? Mourinho? Are both of them bad managers?
Can I ask you how long a new manager should get at one club before he would be given door? One year without trophies? Because if you want Solskjaer gone and he is in his 2nd full season, it can't be more than that.
And also, would this mean that you would sack Klopp, despite Liverpool showing progress with him first 4 years?
How this is even still a question baffles me.
Not only does he consistently outfox every "superior" manager that he faces, he is also building the correct type of footballing culture at Man United. No toxic environments, nobody is bigger than the club, players want to come and play for United again. No wonder Sancho is looking over wishing the move happened. We're quickly becoming one of the most exciting clubs in Europe, exactly where we belong.
As soon as 1 result doesn't go our way, too many fans with agendas jump on the Ole out bandwagon and it's embarrassing.
Not only does he consistently outfox every "superior" manager that he faces, he is also building the correct type of footballing culture at Man United. No toxic environments, nobody is bigger than the club, players want to come and play for United again. No wonder Sancho is looking over wishing the move happened. We're quickly becoming one of the most exciting clubs in Europe, exactly where we belong.
As soon as 1 result doesn't go our way, too many fans with agendas jump on the Ole out bandwagon and it's embarrassing.
It's not even two years since he was appointed caretaker in Dec 2018.
Should Liverpool, one of the biggest clubs in world football, who gave him resources to sign everybody he wanted, have sacked Klopp?
Your standards are too high. If you hire/sack managers, your club would never build anything special.
Ole is 2 years in to a massive project. Don't you think that on the current trajectory (3rd place finish, 3 semi finals, currently schooling the best teams in europe, excellent squad building) that we will not win a trophy by June 2022? I tell you what, if he doesn't, I suspect the squad he will then leave behind for the next manager will be ready-made. It's win win for us at the moment.
Sorry. I meant after this season is finished.
Ah ok my bad.
Also, it would have helped if Martial hadn't been an idiot v Spurs and Greenwood was fit.
But people like him and @FootyGirl88 don't have time for context...
How does it baffle you? He's lost heavily to Spurs, lost 3-1 to Crystal palace. Our form prior to COVID was shocking and we were 22 points behind Liverpool after 15 games last season. Even if you are Ole In you have to concede that our form is a rollercoaster.
I definitely think he is improving us and am therefore think he's deserving of time to keep his project going but I also see why others are concerned that we also have our weaknesses (that could be down to coaching) that get shown up regularly
We've lost 4 games in 34 since January. A better record than almost every team in the league.
It's funny. We're regularly playing one of the youngest lineups in the league ... we're inconsistent, and people don't put two and two together? Young players being inconsistent? Is that shocking to people somehow?
We also had basically no pre-season. But that gets left aside too.
All the hipsters with their Nagelsmann & Tuchel - where are they now? Outclassed both of them.
We also had basically no pre-season. But that gets left aside too.
All the hipsters with their Nagelsmann & Tuchel - where are they now? Outclassed both of them.
The CL form has been amazing and obviously there has been a massive improvement on that front. Hopefully we can bring that form to the league now.
But surely you know that winning trophies is the goal post always regardless of what anyone says. The owners may have hired Ole to get Top 4 every year but I don't think there is a United fan out there who is ok with just Top 4.
I think we should strive for this as a baseline when acquiring new players/manager/coaches:
1. If he can't beat Ole - not worth it.
2. If he concedes 3+ goals in one game against us - not worth it.(GK and DF)
3. If MacT and Fred can handle him easily - not worth it. (for midfielders)
4. If he can't score against us - not worth it. (attackers)
1. If he can't beat Ole - not worth it.
2. If he concedes 3+ goals in one game against us - not worth it.(GK and DF)
3. If MacT and Fred can handle him easily - not worth it. (for midfielders)
4. If he can't score against us - not worth it. (attackers)
Because that's football. The next time United get a bad result, people will say the squad isn't good enough, Woodward needs to go and/or Ole out.
I feel it's inevitable that Ole won't finish his project and another manager will come in at some point. The players play for their lives whenever his job is on the line but unless they can win a trophy then I can see the board hitting the reset button
Absolutely, and we can be 100% sure that for Ole that is the ultimate aim as well. But with this young team he's building, I'm prepared to give him at least three full seasons for him to get it right. The issue has predominantly been the lack of backing from the board, especially this summer when he reached the targets that had been reached. Imagine adding Sancho & Grealish to that attack. Imagine if we had brought in Upamecano to stabilise the backline.
Ole has done a tremendous job in getting some real quality and consistency out of McTominay and Fred especially. And while towards the end of last season he couldn't afford to play them, this season is a clean slate and everyone is back to square one and we're now finally starting to marry the good elements (and there definitely were some) of our pre-Bruno team, to the good elements of the post-lockdown Utd when it was Bruno and Pogba at the helm.
We just need to keep at it and not lose our shit after every game, irrespective of whether we win, lose or draw, or play well or badly. We just have to remember it's one game and we instead have to consider the progression from where we were to now, and if we're still on that pathway.
I'm not denying we've had good runs I just said our form has been a rollercoaster. We've lost 8 in all competitions since January; 3 of them were semi finals. It can be the importance of the lost games (more so than the absolute number) that cause people to question him. Or it can be the nature of losing to teams like Burnley, Crystal Palace and (so heavily to) Spurs.
I just think people claiming to be baffled by fans who aren't entirely convinced by Ole are being as blind to his weaknesses as the Ole out brigade are to his positives. There's a middle ground here of lets wait and see because I really don't believe there is absolute evidence (yet) that Ole will be the one to bring us back to the top of the league.
I never liked Jose and when he was in charge I hated the scene of him sitting in Sir Alex seat. He might have been one of the good managers few years ago, but I dont think he is now. LVG on the other hand I expected him to do much better, but he failed and it happens, managers can fail despite their good previous records.
I was expecting to see from both of them a good team with good football by the end of the second season and in the beginning of their 3rd season we show signs of competing for the title, but that did not happen Jose made a mess of himself and his football was trash from februari second season and LVG couldnt even get a 4th place.
How long should it takes for a manager to compete and challenge for major trophies in a big club like united? I think after one year in charge should show his style of football and after 2 years he should be competing for titles. But their is nothing wrong in having doubts about any manager earlier if they look out of their depths. That said the manager's records should be taken into consideration, for example Jose is known to deliver in his second season, and if he was signed for fast success and did not do that then there is no point of keeping him if he was stinking the place. The managers CV also plays a role, if they showed similar ability before joining united to build teams (like klopp did with BVB before he joined Liverpool). Klopp showed instant progress and their style of football changed dramatically, in his 3rd season he was a CL finalist and competed to the last minute for the league.
Maybe it was kind of strange luck for Ole that we have not got Sancho. This system with 4 midfielders seems to work in our favor.
We have started to play really tidy under pressure and in tight spaces.
I have decided that if Ole is able to get something out of the run of games after the international break I will back him until the season is nearing its end. Not only is he doing sensationally fine so far, but for the first time I have the feeling to see real improvement on the pitch. This is not us getting with some luck a few good results, but playing with confidence and trusting our own strengths.
We have started to play really tidy under pressure and in tight spaces.
I have decided that if Ole is able to get something out of the run of games after the international break I will back him until the season is nearing its end. Not only is he doing sensationally fine so far, but for the first time I have the feeling to see real improvement on the pitch. This is not us getting with some luck a few good results, but playing with confidence and trusting our own strengths.
The style of football seems to be getting clearer. We are a counter attacking team against teams who attack us. We rely on individual quality to break down teams who park the bus. It is not to my liking to be honest but it is there.
I think that's a fair assessment of how Ole sees us. Essentially, if a team are going to push players forward and attack us, he's in his element and we will see the double pivot, likely 5 at the back against the best teams and it's how we've had most of our success in 'big' games.
Against teams like Palace or Burnley, what we hopefully have now, by way of spending a huge amount of money, is enough options to suit any strategy he can dream up. Cavani, Martial, Rashford, Greenwood - on paper that's up there with any team in the league, Pogba, Bruno, McT, Fred, VdB, Matic - is probably the best depth in the PL and the defence has been hugely improved by Axel coming back and Telles. We even have 3 top class GKs now.
He prob challenge this season which technically not even 2 full seasons yet of football, so I think he doing what you want him too do.
The style so obvious. Baffling why people keep pretending their isnt. Maybe not enough pattern of plays, robotic style so people cant see it.
Best thing I see about us is the different ways we can play game to game, the tactical changes, and formations. Defo not a 1 trick pony but people keep beating on about we are only only good on the counter, cant break teams down etc, which since bruno came in we have literally been breaking defensive teams down.
Just wanna share my two cents. I saw a lot of posters mentioning our depth last night and how we improved in that department. I think we have Ole to thank for our depth, as many players we now consider good enough to be around first team were dismissed after Mourinho as not good enough and flops.
Fred was considered a flop now everyone's praising him, McT was considered to be Mou's player just because he's tall, Rashford and Martial weren't good enough, Greenwood wasn't even in the picture and was an unknown quantity, Matić was spent force and way past it. All these players are now viable options to start games and get us the win! And all of that is on Ole if I'm being honest, he's the one who trusted them and guided their form back to where it can be. He might not be the best manager out there or even the best one for us, but he certainly has it in him to improve players.
Fred was considered a flop now everyone's praising him, McT was considered to be Mou's player just because he's tall, Rashford and Martial weren't good enough, Greenwood wasn't even in the picture and was an unknown quantity, Matić was spent force and way past it. All these players are now viable options to start games and get us the win! And all of that is on Ole if I'm being honest, he's the one who trusted them and guided their form back to where it can be. He might not be the best manager out there or even the best one for us, but he certainly has it in him to improve players.
One thing to be noted that 5 subs allow managers to tactically shift the game completely, also it gives generous room to correct mistakes in the starting line up. 3 sub system in PL is far less forgiving.
That said, credit to Ole he has used 5 subs to its fullest. Last season post lockdown 5 subs were allowed, also same in this year CL. His tactical blunders however are far more punishing in this PL season with just 3 subs.
I actually like 5 sub system. It should be made permanent everywhere.
That said, credit to Ole he has used 5 subs to its fullest. Last season post lockdown 5 subs were allowed, also same in this year CL. His tactical blunders however are far more punishing in this PL season with just 3 subs.
I actually like 5 sub system. It should be made permanent everywhere.
Although I dont like to see us look like underdogs against strong teams and rely on individual brilliance to break packed teams, but fair enough for Ole if he gets results and trophies with this style.
That was not what he said though. He used the good games as evidence that the squad is good enough to challenge, and bad results is down to the manager. Unfair is an understatement, its simply mental
And i agree we need to be more consistent, its pretty bleeding obvious we need to when we can smash Leipzig and lose to Palace in the space of two months, but consistency takes time to build and much of it relies on factors outside of the managers control. Of course hes responsible for the preparations going into the games, the tactics and so on, but once the ref blows the whistle it is actually the players on the pitch who controls the outcome and not him.
Last season as an example, i would say we were consistently bad from August-January and consistently good from February-July. I dont think Ole had some sort of eureka moment and suddenly figured it out, but it was largely down to having the right players available to produce the kind of football he envisions. The reason i have been Ole in all the way (despite some big letdowns along the way) is because his vision for the squad seems to be very good, not to mention sustainable and long term. Binning off the likes of Lukaku and Sanchez, trusting our young attackers and bringing in Bruno has done wonders.
My perspective has always been that where we are heading are more important than where we are right now. Right now i am pretty confident we will be better next season than this one, so if i have to stomach some inconsistencies along the way so be it. We have a young squad and the mood seems to be good so unless something dramatic happens we seemingly are on an upward trajectory
The reason Joses second place finish felt so hopeless was because it seemed like that season we had reached our ceiling in terms of league performance and De Gea was tending the goal like a living wall. We then come to December and get outclassed by City at OT with a cowardly, spineless performance. IMO we have not reached out ceiling yet under Ole so i am excited to see where he can lead us
I don’t know what your age is and I wasn’t referencing 37 as your age but making an example.
If you did support United in those days I find it amusing you was so quick to take a break when Moyes joined. I mean was it something you hadn’t seen before?
You can’t judge me to tell me what I would have been when I’ve been supporting United through all of our managers after Fergie but you decided to disappear.
Also on your last point.. I don’t think anyway is so stuck up in their views they can’t celebrate a win that’s abit pathetic especially in the manner it was done last night. Too many people are trying to push there agenda’s and it’s normally the ones who claim to not have an agenda who love to push it. Like... not allowing fans to enjoy a win because they have criticised the manager or criticised a player.
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