Complain away but have bit of appreciation that these games aren't easy and assess it according to that. Bookies give us less than 50% chance of winning tomorrow, Southampton are a decent team.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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Yes psg had a better team than us. Even we were missing Maguire and the only regular starter they were missing was Marquinhos. Verrati in the last year or so has been a hit or missm Others you mentioned are far from regular starters. Heck some here still think herrera can play for us. It's funny how goal post keeps on changing for you guys. When the draw happened? Ohh ole is going to be toasted. When we beat both Leipzig and PsG now you are saying but they are not better than us. If tomorrow we beat city, the argument will be but they were already regressing. If Ole god willing wins the league then the goal post will be changed to something stupid.
Ironically Poch failed and sacked the season when he spent the most. Not only that, lot of his big signings have been meh and failed him.
So I understood what you were talking about and I'm trying to say that sometime manager is given the resources/money but couldn't spend it wisely. Poch hasn't really prove that. Lot of his best players were already at Spurs team.
If we had a better manager, a title push wouldn't be out of the question. As Bizarre as that sounds.
With Liverpool dropping a rare late lead today, it's opened things up at the top. Spurs are favourites if they beat Chelsea this weekend. But if they draw, that's even better for United.
Games in hand aren't guaranteed points, mind. Especially with our run of games between Southampton tomorrow and Villa on January 2nd.
With Liverpool dropping a rare late lead today, it's opened things up at the top. Spurs are favourites if they beat Chelsea this weekend. But if they draw, that's even better for United.
Games in hand aren't guaranteed points, mind. Especially with our run of games between Southampton tomorrow and Villa on January 2nd.
Who are Pochettino's big signings that flopped? Not talking about price but players you'd have wanted to come and start for United
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He certainly had a range of meh signings but I don't think he wasted a big sum of money on them.
Big signing I referred to price. This is very relevant to our discussion about our board and manager because spending big on the right players are important. And we ain't got oil money.
We have board that won't allow manager to spend another money on the position they already signed. For example Mourinho spent on 2 centre backs Lindelof & Bailly, Ed said no when Mourinho asked for another centre back.
Which big money transfers? Ndombele isn't down to Poch but needing a year to settle, he's actually shown to be a good player after his first year with the club. Even Jose had to let him adjust, albeit he was open about his frustrations with him.
Sissoko and Wanyama were big transfers and good transfers, Davinson Sanchez and Lucas Moura were good transfers, Alderweirald and Son were good transfers. It's worth also noting players that flopped were actually flipped for a profit (like Yedlin, Trippier wasn't a flop but when he passed his peak he was sold for a good price, I think Wimmer too). Not that it matters too much because that's probably down to Levy's great acumen, but as you spoke about big money transfers and directed to Poch I thought it was worth mentioning.
Pochettino was sacked after 12 PL games last season. Hardly enough time to judge signings like Lo Ceslo or Ndombele.
Ndomebele looked better under Poch's management last season than he did under Mourinho who didn't like him until recently. He scored 2 goals and provided 3 assists while Poch was in charge.
Lo Celso was mainly injured while Poch was there. And it was the same story with Sessegnon who was out with a hamstring injury.
Sometimes you don't get a bit of luck. All three of his major new signings were injured at the start of the season.
Lots of his signings were successful. Davies, Dier, Dele Alli, Trippier, Son, Alderweireld, Wanyama, Sissoko, Aurier, Lucas.
Davinson Sánchez is the biggest flop. He looked very good initially. His debut season.
Ranieri, Conte and Klopp have all won the league despite not having the best squad in the league in the season they won the title.
Good managers overachieve, and it's not that uncommon. It's also not just down to winning titles, if a team is expected to finish outside of the top 4 before the season starts and they finish 2nd that is a great achievement.
Liverpool in 18/19 is a great example. They didn't win win the league but they took a great City side to the very last game despite having an inferior squad.
Maybe it sounds bizarre but I believe we wouldn't win the league under the current management until we have a manager with this attribute. You say the best team wins the league but under the Glazers and Woodward when do you see us ever having a superior team to that of City Chelsea Liverpool and the other 17 teams?
If we end this season having failed to achieve a reasonable set of targets, then of course it will be time to re-evaluate whether he can take this forward.
IF it comes to that then it would be fair to look at his time in charge as a whole. Right now it isnt fair, because we are still delivering consistent growth, both in the quality of the squad and our results. You keep looking back to a point where the maturity level of this team was nowhere near what it is now, so much so as to be irrelevant. History.
The trend from then to now suggests sustained improvement, over a large enough sample size, to accurately represent how good we are right now as opposed to a year ago.
Im not blindly backing Ole because of who he is. I wanted progress. Consistent and continual progress, and right now we have that, so naturally I am happy. One or two bad results won't change that, because it happens in football, but if at the end of this season it feels that we have plateaued, then its time for a change.
I believe that Ole over achieved last season. Thats not blind bias because its him. I genuinely believe that we had no right to finish 3rd given our obvious squad deficiencies.
What's the price range for a big signing according to you
This sentence has thrown me way off. . .
Are you giving him credit for the quality of the squad? If so you’re saying he’s responsible for recruitment which would in turn mean he’s at fault for our disjointed summer recruitments. Can you clarify how our squad quality has been improved directly via OgS or are we saying generational talents like Greenwood are his doing? Genuinely lost.
Also our results, is this because we’ve got a higher points total than the shambolic number OgS set last year?
You go on to mention a sample size, sustained improvement etc. does that mean if he doesn’t finish second or does he simply need to marginally improve on last years points total?
See, with all due respect, there's no point me debating with you, or you with me, when you use a phrase such as 'shambolic points total from last year'. Its better to just accept that we see things very differently and leave it there.
I mean that's a very simplistic way to look at Pochettino's time. He took over a team that finished 6th when he joined and in his first 3 seasons had them finish 5th 3rd and 2nd respectively. If we also decide to be selective with dates as has been done for Ole, Poch's spurs had the best points total for the whole of 2017.Pochettino
Pochettino had better team than Chelsea’s Conte & Leicester in my opinion and he failed to win the title, and also he had the board to hold him off. He’s pretty much what you think of Ole but with more PL experienced and worse stats against the top 6. You can actually use your own phrase on Pochettino case at spurs ‘’If Poch got his player Spurs would be winning’’
Hassenhutl still has point to prove. His win % managerial career isn’t looking good but he has potential indeed.
He only had £145m to spend across his first 3 seasons. Chelsea, Manutd and City all had double or more to spend over the same period and he finished above all of them at some point.
It's nothing like Ole at all.
Let's get Ranieri in then if he'll win us the league.
I’ve simply asked for clarification on your meaning lad, calm down.
I’m beyond the debate of Ole in or out; I’m a faceless fan on a forum, going back & forth for hours has gotten me nowhere previously & [as it’s rather clear in your response] people are entrenched in their emotions - I don’t care if you want him to stay or go.
All i asked was about the quality of the squad and our results.
It was historically a rather low points total for the league finish; that’s not a debate hence why it’s rather telling you struggle to get past that sentence when asked to clarify your opinion [I can’t debate your opinion btw as it’s your opinion, I just don’t get it] but. . . with all due respect of course, I’ve got your answer.
He’s a bit clueless, and bitter.
Ah, a Redcafe heckler has arrived how befitting of a simple question. . .
Can’t even state a fact without riling the circus.
If we finish 3rd or above with more points than last year that would be very acceptable to me, all things considered. I’ve had the odd wobble where my faith was sorely tested but I realised there is no point looking at individual games or each decision or selection or interview comment. The only thing that matters is the performance over the season. There’ll be highs and lows but that’s the way it’s always been. Winning brings no real joy if you never lose. We just need to win a bit more often and all will be golden. Ole is still the man for this job.
In the end it's your opinion. But I don't think so. I think you can say we overachieved at the second half of the season but that's after we under achieved (even with the injuries we had) at the first half.
Your immaturity aside, the irony is he's one of a long list of managers more accomplished than Ole.
That's the thing. Ranieri is a league winning manager whose credentials are still in question.
Is it no wonder then that people are not confident about Ole at all, given he hasn't achieved anything close to what Ranieri has, and Ranieri himself is viewed as not good enough?
Win our 2 games in hand and we're 2 pts behind Liverpool.
Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho had all done more than Ole in management. They were all shit at United and I prefer Ole's work to them.
Amazing people still think a decent cv is going to some guarantee a manager will bring success back to Old Trafford.
Because in the end it meant next to nothing. He was sacked for Craig Shakespeare because they thought they could do better. Anyone being so confident that any manger is going to walk in here and take us to a title is clutching at straws. Quality of squad is what matters more which is why Leicester slid down the league.
I wasn't implying we should bring Ranieri in. I was just responding to a silly post(er) in the same manner.
I agree with the bolded, which is why I think we shouldn't get unnecessarily attached to any manager (which is what I think is happening with Ole, and has happened in general for our previous managers).
We should instead be ready to change managers until we find one good enough to win the league, and of course the probability of finding one of those managers will be higher if we get managers with very good prior achievements and/or profile (aka CV).
Thats pretty much what we have been doing
Maybe, but I still have a few problems about the way we've gone about doing so:
1) We always seem to replace managers when they are past the point of no return, rather than being more proactive about it. Momentum is very important in football (and life in general) and so far we've squandered any positive momentum we've had by not being decisive.
2) The fanbase usually complains about too much managerial change. Understandable since we're used to Sir Alex, but still it seems like we haven't wrapped our heads around the reality of replacing managers regularly.
3) Woodward this time around seems to be more attached to Ole than he should be, at least judging by his words in the media and his actions.
If Ole was treated like just a regular manager that could be replaced, then I wouldn't have any problems. But it doesn't feel that way, especially with the civil war vibe one can get from Ole discussions.
Exactly. The manager should never make us lose sight of the goal. Our goal this season is top 4. If we don't get it or are struggling to get it I hope Woodward does the needful instead of "we are backing the manager or it's a long term project and we are building something" which I see happening
Let's be honest we've pretty much done nothing other than cock up the last few years.
Point 3 is interesting. I dont think hes done too much other than not fire him. The one time Ole looked done for was after the Burnley loss in Jan. Nobody could have argued too much back then had he made a change. It was a real low point.
But.....they didn't budge, and that can only really be because the two of them had sat down right at the start, had a very honest look at the state of the club, and put a plan in place to solve it.
I say so because the rebuild rhetoric bought a manager of Ole's standing a lot more time than he would usually have at a club of our size. And the rebuild rhetoric was very actively pushed by Woodward and the whole club from the moment Ole signed the contract.
Usually a manager of Ole's standing at a huge club would be given a little time to show what he can do, and if he fails he's replaced asap. But Ole's been backed to an unusually large amount of time (and money) by Woodward, which to me comes across as Woodward being more attached to Ole than he should be.
Win every game and we win the PL too.
That's the point. Then people will talk about Pep and Zidane very conveniently forgetting that they kept winning trophies from the onset of their management career while Ole has been in management for some time now.
It's crazy to think that Real or Barcelona would have kept Zidane or Pep if they had not won anything for 2 years since they started.
Could just as likely be two people coming together at the right time with a shared vision of how the club should go forwards.
Ole hasn't actually failed at anything yet. Quite the contrary IMO, and his spending hasn't been out of line with anything we've done in the past.
Neither has he succeeded. If he doesn't win anything this year then he would be worse than Jose or LVG. Jose won the EL and the league cup in his first full season. LVG won the FA Cup in his second full season. Jose got 2nd in his second full season.
He has already had one and a half season. In fact he has had almost enough games in the PL for two seasons. But we can discount his first half a season when he took over.
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