Then we should all get behind the team and hope we win something this season
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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We all do hope we win something. Otherwise why all the frustrations when we play bad and make a mess of everything?
The frustrations in here are way over the top after a draw/loss/tight win. Similarly the reaction after a win can be OTT (but generally much less offensive as there's nothing wrong with a bit of sporting based euphoria).
I think the biggest of all my cafe issues though (not that you asked) is the lack of posting in the post match thread after a good win. People who cant be arsed to praise the team can do one
Are you a new United fan or supporter by the way? We expect to win. It is not an exception it is the belief that we win. That is why we won all those trophies under SAF.
No matter how good our squad becomes, our ceiling will still be capped with Ole.
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Yep. But you'll get people saying we can't expect to achieve anything until we have the best team in the league. The most concerning part for me with Ole, is that he can't even get the most out of what he's got right now. Let alone begin to hope that he can overachieve with us.
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I find it odd to believe that you think a squad's quality is more important than the manager. When we won some of those titles under SAF, we had the best team in the league every time did we?
How do you explain Southampton's current success under Hasenhüttl, with virtually the same squad that was inherited in the relegation places under Hughes?
You're right that it was a very low bar last year. We finished 3rd on 66 points. That wouldn't have been enough for top 4 in the last 5/6 seasons. We actually finished 6th on 69 points back in Mourinho's 1st season (16/17). And that season we gave up on it to focus on the EL.
To compare Ole's league record with Mourinho's, he is one loss away from totaling Mourinho's record in 26 fewer matches (16 in 67 vs 17 in 93). Overall Ole's points per game is lower than Mourinho's too (1.78 ppg in 67 vs 1.89 ppg in 93). Mourinho's league record was considered a failure with us. Sustained improvement and progress indeed.
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We very rarely had outside the top 2 best squads in the league under SAF and when we didn't (eg. 2004-2006) we didn't win the league. Also even under SAF we lost titles to managers like Mancini, because they had even better players.
Southampton are playing well. They are a good team and tomorrow will be a tough game but let's not get too carried away yet, last year your example would have Sheff Utd and Wilder instead.
After the game tomorrow I think we will have a good idea of just how average we can be under Ole. I don’t expect us to win because we will set up with 2 deep CM and they will run rings around us - again.
Southampton press well as a team and are let down by individual quality, rather than tactics and coaching.
What RH has done with this Southampton side is pretty amazing. Would love the guy to manage United.
Southampton press well as a team and are let down by individual quality, rather than tactics and coaching.
What RH has done with this Southampton side is pretty amazing. Would love the guy to manage United.
What success? They've recovered from a poor start and well done to them but they and he have done the square root of feck all in the grand scheme of things. In fact, we've had a better recent run of form than they have, and it hasn't stopped you and others from thinking the sky is falling down.
People are obsessed with pressing on here.
Southampton finished 11th last season. They lost more than they won, and had a negative goal difference. They press though, so the coach must be shit hot.
Southampton finished 11th last season. They lost more than they won, and had a negative goal difference. They press though, so the coach must be shit hot.
Pressing is a huge part of football in the last decade. Especially amongst smaller clubs, take Southampton when’s the last time we’ve had a comfortable win against them? They often don’t let us string two passes together because they press us so relentlessly and it shows just how poorly coached we’ve been for the last seven years.
This season they look much better then United, despite an inferior squad but it shows what a good coach can do where as Ole is the complete opposite and that’s why I don’t see the logic in continuing with him if he can’t do anything with this current batch of players.
We also won leagues with lesser teams in his later years due to the brilliance of SAF though. 2010/11 we finished 9 points ahead of both City & Chelsea. In my opinion we had a worse squad than both, man for man. Mancini beat us in 2011/12, but we done incredible to even finish on 85 points with that squad. Look at how we beat Arsenal with a midfield of defenders. It was ridiculous how much SAF got out of us at times.
Hasenhüttl is much better than Wilder though. He's proven from his success with Ingolstadt and Leipzig, and is highly respected for his track record with developing young players. Southampton will be a very tough match tomorrow. They gave us huge problems at home in the 2-2 last season, fully deserving their point, and I expect similar tomorrow. I think they will have learnt from their mistakes last time, they will know not to step off the front foot if they take the lead tomorrow.
It's positively weird. The standards they hold these other managers to is ridiculously low. I wouldn't mind if they weren't clamouring for these same people or negatively comparing Ole to them. If they were at Utd setting us out the way they do with their current clubs, guaranteed they'd be complaining.
First it was Poch, then it was Arteta and now it's Hassenhutl. Give it a break lads, please.
No. They don't.
We spend considerably more on one player than their whole budget every year. They've spent £40m over 2 years, we've spent £190m. You're comparing apples to potatoes.
He inherited a team widely tipped for relegation, actually in the relegation places already under Hughes. And with largely the same players, has them currently 5th, but more to the point, has turned them into a very impressive disciplined side, who play some lovely football, whilst developing the young players there. He is massively overachieving with them. That's success.
Even though our players are miles better, I still tip us to struggle mightily tomorrow vs. them. Because of him. In fact, they would have beaten us at home last season if they were braver. They were much the better team that night.
You're right. They could have easily embarrassed us at home last season. What Hasenhüttl is doing with them is impressive. It's a sad state of affairs when I look to teams like Southampton, and wish we had a manager who could get us that organised. Their press is that well drilled it's suffocating.
Im sure you said that about Eddie How as well when Bournmouth were flying, just before they hit relegation form and got relegated. Jesus the over reactions in this place are amazing.
What are you contributing here other than a condescending attitude?
Even Ole is a fan.
Tbh, I think he's doing his best. It's not a high ceiling but it's obvious he's limited to cheap shots and empty top reddism.
I enjoy your points, so please keep the discussion going.
Well we certainly don't look better. Take away the PSG and Red Bull win and you'd mistake us for a relegation side the way we've been playing.
Don’t know if you noticed but the poster I posed those rather simple questions to threw his dummy out about the points total being poor instead of substantiating the nonsense spouted.
The same comments are made; “he’s improved the squad”, and I’d agree the squad is better but they only want to praise him for getting things right; ask why we’re still without an established RW & it’s suddenly the board/Woodward that get held responsible.
Same again when you ask what would count as improvement; they’re happy to succumb 3rd place because Chelsea spent big [ignoring the fact we spent more last Summer] so you ask will they judge improvement in the points total &. . . crickets.
There’s a number of United fans that have obviously had a nerve struck being called glory hunters for years & want to show how ‘non-plastic’ they are by using this period as a badge of honour.
Whether you want OgS to stay or go is irrelevant; we’re p*ssing in the wind arguing about it on a forum; I’d just interested in moving the discussion along and into reality.
So I’ll ask for us both. Can someone actually clarify our ‘Sustained improvement and progress’. . .
yes what he has done with Soton is impressive but I do not think he is still a top class coach and neither is Ole. If a good coach is given a good squad he is going to do better of course. Give the Soton coach the united squad and he is going to do much better obviously. But we as United should not be looking to Soton as our competition. We should be competing with City, Liverpool, Chelsea. The fact that we are having doubts about beating Soton shows how low we have fallen.
I really do not understand why people think we should not get a better coach than Ole? It is obvious that unless we implode he is going to be here until the end of the season. Would they still want to keep him if we fail to qualify for the CL? Or if we still don't win any trophies would they still want to keep him still?
There is no sustained improvement. They are talking improvement from the time Jose imploded. Yes we were in the bottom half when Jose was sacked and the football was dire then. But then there is no improvement from the end of each season. LVG got us into the CL spots and won us the FA Cup during his two years. Jose got us the EL, League Cup and 2nd place in his two years. Ole in is his one and half season got is into the CL spots and won nothing so far. If he doesn't win us a trophy he has done worse than LVG and Jose.
The bold is my issue in regards to a lot of the analysis here [the Maguires impact is another prime example]; we’re judging things based on an outlier where Jose was actively looking to be sacked.
If you look at our goals conceded in that season you see a massive anomaly but apparently OgS & his signings have transformed us when infact they’ve returned us to near the status quo of the years beforehand.
We finished 3rd last season & a number of fans on here are already forging reasons as to why a regression in finishing position is acceptable which is mind boggling.
We were horrendous in the way we handled the UEL Semi Final which seems to have totally been forgotten about also.
This isn’t to say sack OgS btw but as you mention he’s coming up on 2 full seasons so should be showing more than an improved xG surely.
With LVG you know exactly what he is trying to do. We keep possession and we got boring as heck after a while. We were good when he started. I think his transfers were poor. With Jose you knew what he was also doing. His current Spurs team is doing exactly what he wants them to do. He is result oriented. Yes if we had given him Maguire and sold Pogba we probably would have been in a much better position.
I do agree that with Woodward and The Glazers around we probably would not win much. The reason is that ex United players are too influential with Woodward and the media. I thought Jose had the stature to stand up to them but once the Woodward chose Pogba over the Manager it was all over.
Right now there is a real lack of world class coaches in my opinion. Barcelona, Juventus, Chelsea, United, Arsenal look at the people these clubs have managing them it really tells you a lot.
At the moment I dont see us winning anything major for the foreseeable future and if we can't get a Klopp or Guardiola I'd much rather us get one of these exciting coaches like Hasenhüttl, Marco Rose, Nagelsman then keep Ole who shows zero tactical nous or hire a past his prime like Van Gaal/Mourinho.
The fact remains that the season he spent the most is the season he got sacked. Getting sacked just after 12 PL games make it even worse which shows that either his new signings failed him or he got no clue how to get the best out of his own signings. This tells you, having more money doesn’t mean you will be better if you don’t know how to spend the money properly. Find the right players that suit your system and the squad isn’t easy, the season Poch was backed, it led him to lose his job.
His biggest spending have been on average 20m-30m player. Ndombele 60m, Sessegnon 27m, Sanchez 45m, Aurier 25m, Sissoko 35m, Janssen 22m & Son 30m. 7 of those, only 2 worked out for him. The ones worked out were actually when he spent less than 20m on a player, getting low resources actually did him a favour. Once again, I‘ll say it again, having more money doesn’t mean you will be better if you don’t know how to spend the money properly.
I asked the poster who can make our last season team to win the league or toe to toe with Liverpool. He shouted Poch. My response is simple, if he couldn’t lead his team to title winner at least once in 2015/2016 & 2016/2017 despite of having better players than Leicester & Chelsea then there is no evidence to make claim that Poch can make it.
This question is irrelevant to my point. My point is that having more money doesn’t mean you will be better if you don’t know how to spend the money properly and this is what happened to Poch.
His biggest spending have been on average 20m-30m player. Ndombele 60m, Sessegnon 27m, Sanchez 45m, Aurier 25m, Sissoko 35m, Janssen 22m & Son 30m. 7 of those, only 2 worked out for him. The ones worked out were actually when he spent less than 20m on a player, getting low resources actually did him a favour.
I think you've totally misunderstood me or maybe i misunderstood your question as I never said or meant this. Shouted Pochettino?
I don't think even Ferguson can make our last season team win the leagueI'm not a Pochettino fan and don't want him here. I didn't bring up his name to say he can win the league, I mentioned him as an example of the few coaches that has the ability to get a club to surpass their expectations and not as an example of a coach that can win us the league. I mention him along with Klopp and Hassenhutl because these coaches all have the ability to surpass expectations as they've done it in their previous clubs and it wasn't a fluke like Ranieri.
If we are talking about the type of coach to win us a title under our current incompetent management then he must have two things - winning mentality (because the club itself has no ambition to be the best) and the ability to surpass expectations (because the club will not provide the manager a team superior to the other 19 teams). This is where I would rule out Pochettino as he doesn't seem to have a winning mentality. Klopp would be the most obvious candidate
As long as top 4 is looking likely I'm willing to stick with Ole for the remainder of his contract not because I think he's good enough or better than other available coaches but because I currently don't see a clear candidate available that can take us back to the top under our current management.
One other thing we would need to start winning titles again is good recruitment of players. We didn't have that under our former coaches but I think we've started doing that and I'm hoping we've sorted that out thanks to Ole
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I don’t think it is wrong playing two defensive minded midfielders in the first part of a game against a pressing team. It will open up as the time goes on, and we can move forward from there. But we won’t. DVB will start.
Will you be disappointed if we win and set a new club record on away wins?
I don’t think it is wrong playing two defensive minded midfielders in the first part of a game against a pressing team. It will open up as the time goes on, and we can move forward from there. But we won’t. DVB will start.
Of course I won’t be disappointed if we win.
I don’t think we usually react well to being pressed efficiently and our midfield tends to get overrun. Yes, hopefully VdB ahead of McT or Pogba might help this. Let’s see.
So he apparently had better players than the eventual league champions but he doesn't know how to spend money? Bit of a contradiction don't you think?
What's wrong with what he said?
"You can't forgive any mistake despite showing a willingness to improve. Let me show you how to create a completely toxic work environment - Sean_RedDevil"
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