Self entitled doesnt mean what I thought it did. I meant self obsessed, my bad, me no speaky english
Zlatan or Rooney?
- Thread starter Canagel
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
If he's so self entitled then he wouldn't be such a work-rate freak. In my opinion its all a facade and that behind his brand there's a person whose got self esteem problems. That might explain why he goes in such ridiculous extent to prove himself to be the best on a daily basis and why he's so loyal to the few people around him who treated him well (Mou, Raiola). It might also explain why he doesn't like people stealing his spotlight.
However Since none of us know him on a personal level lets just agree to disagree on that.
Meant self obsessed sorry, using the not my first language card here
no worries mate. I get stuck in way worse incidents than that.
I don't think that Ibra is an Ahole. At least he doesn't show that on the pitch. Aholes tend to be primadonnas or lack of effort. Ibra was always praised for his world class attitude on and off the pitch and his insane workrate.
He's surely a big mouth and he is in constant search of attention. These are traits that are commonely found in people who are trying to hide their low self esteem. Deep down I feel that being a son of immigrants had pushed him to constantly prove himself especially once he moved in Italy. The Serie A can be quite nasty with people like him and its not the first time he was called 'zingaro' there. His departure from Juventus was brutal (mostly orchestrated by Mino) and shaped his career as a bad boy, an image both Mino and he liked as it boosted his brand big time.
It might be an act in part, but the stuff he did at Ajax and the interviews he did there he didnt really come of as the most stable person. He's fun though I'll give him that.
You what mate?
United and England top scorer, United and England captain, 5 Premier Leagues, and a European cup...that doesn't hold a candle to Zlatan?
Have a word with yourself
To be at a club for so long, and consistently produce season in season out, is harder than going to a club for a couple of years and producing, in my opinion.
You also have to look at the leagues Zlatan has played in. Prior to playing for us, apart from La Liga, which didnt really go well for him, he hasnt really played in tough leagues.
Rooney was here for 13 years, and although he didnt always play well, he consistently produced good numbers, and saw off plenty of players who came and went.
You also have to look at the leagues Zlatan has played in. Prior to playing for us, apart from La Liga, which didnt really go well for him, he hasnt really played in tough leagues.
Rooney was here for 13 years, and although he didnt always play well, he consistently produced good numbers, and saw off plenty of players who came and went.
What does this mean?
Its ridiculous.You what mate?
United and England top scorer, United and England captain, 5 Premier Leagues, and a European cup...that doesn't hold a candle to Zlatan?
Have a word with yourself
Hard to say, really. Zlatan's peak was more impressive, even though it could've been different if not for that Bayern injury. I'd probably pick Zlatan, all things considered, but Rooney isn't far behind. Internationally Zlatan was better; Rooney have better European credentials; domestically Zlatan probably edges it.
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Comparatively speaking this has nothing to do with past accolades and it remains to be seen whether Zlatan will produce in the future but, I'm pretty sure if Rooney tore his ACL at 35 he'd have to retire.
Conversely could be argued that Rooney peaked much earlier than Zlatan though. He was pretty much a mainstay in our team by the time he was 18 and had peaked by his mid-20s. Zlatan, on the other hand, largely started to develop into a top player (if I'm remembering correctly) in his mid-20s and was then able to continue performing into his 30s.
Zlatan's form in his 30's is simply ridiculous. The man scored more goals after his 30th birthday then he did before it
Zlatan tips the scales on intelligence. However, on the pitch, I've not really witnessed Zlatan's career playing that much except for last season so I'm not in a position to compare.
Zlatan edges their respective primes and is a good notch above for sustained performance levels over a number of years. I think if Rooney had held his peak for longer or fully realised the promise he showed around 2004, it would be a different answer.
Zlatan has had a better career and he's also the better athlete and more professional.
I think a lot of teams Zlatan played relied on him to deliver. With Rooney it was never the same apart from one or two years. We had Ronaldo and other players like RVP whom the team relied on to delver.
He scored incredible goals but the teams he played during that time was as good as United and if not better too. Not winning the CL does not make him a lesser player as we had better players than Rooney during the time he won the CL.
He scored incredible goals but the teams he played during that time was as good as United and if not better too. Not winning the CL does not make him a lesser player as we had better players than Rooney during the time he won the CL.
Manchester United and England’s all time top scorer will not be forgotten about in a few years. Like all players, nostalgia will increase his stock. Rightly so — he’s had a fantastic career.
Very difficult to choose.
Both were wonderkids, but one of the two shone really brightly early in his career but burnt out really fast before reaching the age of 30, while the other before the freak injury was still shining.
I think as a striker and goalscorer, Ibra improved once he signed for AC Milan when he was around 30 y.o. Don't get me wrong, he was a pretty good striker but always thought of him of goalscorer of great goals instead of great goalscorer, like RvN for instance.
Rooney on the other hand, got worse after the 2009/10 season where played as the lone striker. After the injury, his performances and perhaps professionalism or lack thereof, got really bad where he didn't really resemble a pro footballer.
Rooney played and stayed at United for most his career and became the leading goal scorer and probably one of the leader in assists stats. Zlatan despite playing for different clubs in different leagues, he was still able to perform well. E.g. He was still able to perform despite not being utilised properly by Pep at Barca (and in various interviews by Eto'o and Ibra, Pep's management style at Barca wasn't really all that.
Either way, both had (having) excellent football careers, in their own rights.
Both were wonderkids, but one of the two shone really brightly early in his career but burnt out really fast before reaching the age of 30, while the other before the freak injury was still shining.
I think as a striker and goalscorer, Ibra improved once he signed for AC Milan when he was around 30 y.o. Don't get me wrong, he was a pretty good striker but always thought of him of goalscorer of great goals instead of great goalscorer, like RvN for instance.
Rooney on the other hand, got worse after the 2009/10 season where played as the lone striker. After the injury, his performances and perhaps professionalism or lack thereof, got really bad where he didn't really resemble a pro footballer.
Rooney played and stayed at United for most his career and became the leading goal scorer and probably one of the leader in assists stats. Zlatan despite playing for different clubs in different leagues, he was still able to perform well. E.g. He was still able to perform despite not being utilised properly by Pep at Barca (and in various interviews by Eto'o and Ibra, Pep's management style at Barca wasn't really all that.
Either way, both had (having) excellent football careers, in their own rights.
I'd say peak form wise Rooney was slightly higher as he pretty much helped us become a force to be reckoned with inEurope unlike Zlatan who hasn't made his sides European powerhouses.
Even when we are comparing league wins, Zlatan may have won 11 in the last 15 years which is a ridiculous record but on a closer inspection, the leagues weren't very strong at that time. For example he won 2 in Eredivisie, but the wins came when PSV had just sold Van Nistelrooy and were rebuilding. The 3 champions at Inter were pretty much a one horse race as Juventus and AC Milan had been punished for the match fixing scandal. And then there are the 4 Ligue 1 wins apart from the Barcelona title win just after their treble winning season.
But then again, longetivity is a very important factor and that's what is making this topic worthy of a debate. But one can't use this as a factor to tip the balances in Zlatan's favour as then one could make a case for Gareth Barry being amongst the world's finest players.
Even when we are comparing league wins, Zlatan may have won 11 in the last 15 years which is a ridiculous record but on a closer inspection, the leagues weren't very strong at that time. For example he won 2 in Eredivisie, but the wins came when PSV had just sold Van Nistelrooy and were rebuilding. The 3 champions at Inter were pretty much a one horse race as Juventus and AC Milan had been punished for the match fixing scandal. And then there are the 4 Ligue 1 wins apart from the Barcelona title win just after their treble winning season.
But then again, longetivity is a very important factor and that's what is making this topic worthy of a debate. But one can't use this as a factor to tip the balances in Zlatan's favour as then one could make a case for Gareth Barry being amongst the world's finest players.
I'd have to go for Rooney. I suppose it's partly because he was managed by Sir Alex and hence ended up being a core member of a team that won pretty much everything. Whereas Ibra never won the CL and was a bit if an outcast when he was at a proper elite club. You could argue that zlatan was a better footballer than rooney given his completeness and mentality, but I think rooney had a better career.
Ibra is a better player but Rooney is an English legend so Rooney had more hype supporting his status.
Was he always though? I mean he was doing well in Italy in a league that was declining. But I don't think he was as good as Henry for example.
Rooneys titles included a lot of PL titles which are undoubtedly placed on a much higher pedestal than a Serie A on the down and the French league.
I'm no fan of Rooney and probably prefer zlatan as a footballer but the former was a major force at a major force in a major league for longer than zlatan was who did a lot of his best work in a poorer league. So career wise it's rooney for me.
You've got an interesting interpretation of the word 'legend'. Milan's Maldini is the sort of bloke I'd attribute that kind of word to. Or Platini at Juventus.
Ibrahimovic was just a very good striker that moved on every couple of years.
At their peaks, both were amazing football players, but they're too different to compare, it's like comparing Ronaldo and Messi.
Zlatan edges it because he was at a high level for 12-13 years in a row. Rooney declined after the age of 26.(Even if around that age he had his best numbers).
But, for me, at his peak, Rooney was a different animal than Zlatan, sad that it was only for 3-4 seasons.
Zlatan edges it because he was at a high level for 12-13 years in a row. Rooney declined after the age of 26.(Even if around that age he had his best numbers).
But, for me, at his peak, Rooney was a different animal than Zlatan, sad that it was only for 3-4 seasons.
What sets Zlatan apart is not the longevity itself, but the ridiculous level of performances he maintains (maintained?), being on the wrong side of his 30's. Gareth Barry never performed on a world class level, let alone nowadays.
Rooney and it's not really even close. 5 league titles in top tier football, Champions league medal, played in 3 CL finals, scored in CL final, United's all time top scorer, amazing in Euro 2004 when everyone raved about him
Ibrahimovic has 5 top tier league titles (can't count Dutch and French leagues as top tier) and a few other trophies here and there. He is arguably a better player than Rooney and definitely more prolific but career wise Rooney takes it.
Ibrahimovic has 5 top tier league titles (can't count Dutch and French leagues as top tier) and a few other trophies here and there. He is arguably a better player than Rooney and definitely more prolific but career wise Rooney takes it.
Yeah Rooney's only scored 250 tap ins for United. He's absolutely not scored all sorts of screamers at all.
And Rooney forgotten? Maybe to a certain portion of our fan base but considering he's going to be holding the title of our record goal scorer for a good many years, I kind of doubt it.
Rooney is probably more appreciated outside of England than he is in the UK really.
Not only has Rooney won all those, he's been a proper big game player for us on the domestic and European stage. Zlatan has an individually great career in terms of numbers but 4-5 years in France and those years of winning Serie A with no competition doesn't really boost his credentials for better career for me. How much of a big stage European performer was he?
Zlatan was forgotten the moment Inter and Barca replaced him and won CL
Rooney will always have CL and he will always be the top scorer for Manchester United. Ibrahimovic won't even be top scorer for PSG if Cavani scores 10 more goals this season, which is very likely to happen.
I agree with what you are saying, but we do kind of overestimate the impact of longetivity when judging players' careers. Sure, we'd remember that Rooney wasn't that good in his latter years, but how often do you think that this topic will come up in discussions!
Let's leave Rooney and Zlatan alone as we are looking at this question in a biased way. Let's just compare Ronaldinho with Robben. 2 fine players, just the difference being one had a peak of around 4-6 years at maximum and the other is still going strong and has been for the best 14-15 years. We know who is the better player and it's not even up for debate.
A 7/10 player can and would be treated as an 8-8.5/10 player if he has a long career but vice versa does not work!
Rooney’s might look more impressive if you just look at the numbers and titles, but he will always feel like a waste. Its like there’s 5 years of his career missing. Just my 2 cents.
Very interesting question because they are such different characters.
Rooney burst onto the scene at a very young age, didn't improve a lot with experience and tailed off very early in his career. Zlatan, while also an incredibly talented kid, was an immature arrogant waster who nobody really took seriously as an elite level player. As he has got older and more mature, he has actually become a far better player and arguably is as good now as he was 10 years ago.
Their career paths are very different too. Zlatan played for many clubs, was usually the talisman for his team and thrived being the main man. Rooney played for one club for the majority of his career but both he and the club were more effective when he wasn't the main man.
Of the two, I think Zlatan's career will be remembered more fondly in years to come. He has played in more leagues and won titles with multiple clubs. He is also a charismatic character and a physical freak with his level of skill and athleticism for such a big man. Rooney played most of his career at one club and isn't universally loved by the club's fans.
With Zlatan, he led teams to success, whereas with Rooney, he was a member of a very successful team.
Rooney burst onto the scene at a very young age, didn't improve a lot with experience and tailed off very early in his career. Zlatan, while also an incredibly talented kid, was an immature arrogant waster who nobody really took seriously as an elite level player. As he has got older and more mature, he has actually become a far better player and arguably is as good now as he was 10 years ago.
Their career paths are very different too. Zlatan played for many clubs, was usually the talisman for his team and thrived being the main man. Rooney played for one club for the majority of his career but both he and the club were more effective when he wasn't the main man.
Of the two, I think Zlatan's career will be remembered more fondly in years to come. He has played in more leagues and won titles with multiple clubs. He is also a charismatic character and a physical freak with his level of skill and athleticism for such a big man. Rooney played most of his career at one club and isn't universally loved by the club's fans.
With Zlatan, he led teams to success, whereas with Rooney, he was a member of a very successful team.
The only way to answer this for me would be to imagine which career I would have rather had had I been a footballer. On the premise of that, I would choose Wayne.
1) He won the champions league. Any player in European football, far more for the top top players would want a CL medal more than any others.
2) Rooney will be remembered in history as United's top scorer. Despite all out feelings towards him during his abysmal last few years, in addition to his contract antics, he is a United legend. It's really hard to say Ibra would be remembered as a legend at any club he played at except PSG. He will be remembered as a monumentally gifted footballer, but I don't think he ever hit the heights that would make a footballer go down in the club's history at any of the other clubs. He will more be remembered as a legend of the game overall than at inter, ac, juve or barca.
That being said, there is a part of me that would have loved to have a career that took you to so many different countries, getting to experience the different cultures, and so many different clubs, and winning things at all of them. I mean getting to play at clubs in Italy, Spain, France and England really sounds like the journey of a lifetime as well. It really is a tough one to decide.
Yes I contradicted my own post at the end there
1) He won the champions league. Any player in European football, far more for the top top players would want a CL medal more than any others.
2) Rooney will be remembered in history as United's top scorer. Despite all out feelings towards him during his abysmal last few years, in addition to his contract antics, he is a United legend. It's really hard to say Ibra would be remembered as a legend at any club he played at except PSG. He will be remembered as a monumentally gifted footballer, but I don't think he ever hit the heights that would make a footballer go down in the club's history at any of the other clubs. He will more be remembered as a legend of the game overall than at inter, ac, juve or barca.
That being said, there is a part of me that would have loved to have a career that took you to so many different countries, getting to experience the different cultures, and so many different clubs, and winning things at all of them. I mean getting to play at clubs in Italy, Spain, France and England really sounds like the journey of a lifetime as well. It really is a tough one to decide.
Yes I contradicted my own post at the end there
Open to interpretation, just posting their respected team achievements.
Think you're being a bit harsh towards Zlatan's teams, playing for Ajax at the very early 2000's, Juve/Inter in Serie A during Mid 2000's was no easy task. This was Italy in their prime World Cup-winning era. What he achieved in his final season with Mourinho was nothing short of fantastic, for me that was Zlatan in his prime. You can see clearly what happened to Milan without him. Moving to PSG was a joke though.
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That's just dumb. I know Rooney isn't the most liked on here but saying it's a joke to compare them when Rooney is his country's all time leading scorer as well as said country's biggest clubs leading scorer is just stupid. Let's get a grip Rooney wasn't the white Pelé people thought he'd be and Zlatan was more prolific but to claim it's a joke to compare them is a bigger joke in itself
Any neutral outside of United or even England for that matter would consider Zlatan to be the superior player and have better career to Rooney.
I think most continental football fans will put Zlatan above Rooney. No doubt Rooney was a great player.
I think most continental football fans will put Zlatan above Rooney. No doubt Rooney was a great player.
Zlatan is one of those footballers with the public persona of your bog standard boxer. Rooney is one of those footballers with the face of your bog standard boxer. Hope this helps.
If you gave a manager an option to choose between a 22 year old Rooney and a 22 year old Ibra, it wouldnt even be a contest. Rooney would win that. Rooney had everything except height and had electric pace too.
Zlatan wont probably be remembered as a legend at any clubs other than malmo and psg. He will be to them what maybe a Tevez or Mark Hughes is to us. A good player who scored goals but at the end of the day played against us for rivals.
Rooney goes down as the highest scorer of Manchester United. That will be remembered for years to come.
Zlatan wont probably be remembered as a legend at any clubs other than malmo and psg. He will be to them what maybe a Tevez or Mark Hughes is to us. A good player who scored goals but at the end of the day played against us for rivals.
Rooney goes down as the highest scorer of Manchester United. That will be remembered for years to come.
If Rooney was not English would he have been so famous? Sure he was a very good player in his younger days but I think its a myth that England would have won something if he was not injured story.
In Europe Ronaldo led United and it was not Rooney who led the United attack.
Zlatan was not so famous in his younger days. But for him to be famous later on he had to deliver. He had pace too when he was young. We would only know this if Rooney had gone abroad and played. If he was as successful abroad as Zlatan was. In England and at United he is a legend I would say for scoring the most number of goals. Is he the best player to play for United? Of course not. I do not think he is even the 6th or 7th best player to play for United. He was not even the best player at United during his time at United.
In Europe Ronaldo led United and it was not Rooney who led the United attack.
Zlatan was not so famous in his younger days. But for him to be famous later on he had to deliver. He had pace too when he was young. We would only know this if Rooney had gone abroad and played. If he was as successful abroad as Zlatan was. In England and at United he is a legend I would say for scoring the most number of goals. Is he the best player to play for United? Of course not. I do not think he is even the 6th or 7th best player to play for United. He was not even the best player at United during his time at United.