Freak
Born a freak always a freak.
He was absolutely brilliant yesterday when he came on. Attacked the space superbly, and that surging run for Hernandez's goal was like yaya toure's bursts.
Anderson & Cleverley aren't just the "best of a pretty mediocre bunch at present", I think that is doing both players a disservice, their current form is streets ahead of anyone else in that midfield.he is the best of a pretty mediocre bunch at present.
Well aren't you a ray of sunshine!he is the best of a pretty mediocre bunch at present.
This. Yes, a mediocre midfield would be better than what we're starting at the moment, but Anderson and Cleverley are much more than mediocre.Anderson & Cleverley aren't just the "best of a pretty mediocre bunch at present", I think that is doing both players a disservice, their current form is streets ahead of anyone else in that midfield.
Scholes' chance for starters.We created a couple of half chances at home against the team who currently prop up the Premier League. Revisionism is saying we came "fractionally close"... when was this?
In short, we were completely clueless, just as Sult's said.
Fixed, and even that wasn't fractionally anything, easy save for the keeper. It was however the only decent chance we made in 60 mins.Scholes' chance only.
So is that Scholes and Young's fault I take it? We went 1-0 behind and went gung ho with 4 strikers whilst a tiring QPR sat back even further, of course more chances are going to happen.Fixed, and even that wasn't fractionally anything, easy save for the keeper. The only decent chance we made in 60 mins.
We expect better than the shit we served up for the first 60 mins yesterday. A shite 60 minutes that every man and his dog predicted as soon as the starting 11 was announced.I'm not taking anything away from Anderson, but what do people expect? Cruising 6-0 everyweek against the cannon fodder?
This sort of discussion has been happening for weeks now. It's the same cycle. People vent their frustration at an inhibiting lineup. United mostly end up winning the game and then we have some who choose to sit on their high horses and shout down those who they think don't see the positives. Then discussions degrade to simply arguing over style more so than the actual argument. It's really annoying. The amount of times posters have had to explain themselves repeatedly because there are some on here who just pick out a few words and make an argument on that is astounding.We expect better than the shit we served up for the first 60 mins yesterday. A shite 60 minutes that every man and his dog predicted as soon as the starting 11 was announced.
Fair enough if you're happy with that though, beats the doom & gloom of many of the posters around here. Personally I just think SAF's team selections are making it more difficult than it needs to be at present.
Most of our midfield combinations are capable of holding the majority of possession against teams like QPR. The problem is that, often, it's innocuous possession because the likes of Scholes, Carrick and (now) Fletcher all sit deep, and we become one dimensional as a result.Bollocks. If QPR's midfield pairing was better why did we dominate possession?
I'll just like to add, our defenders play a huge part in us keeping so much possession.In 90% of games, United's midfield 'dominates' ball possession.
What did QPR's midfield pairing do to suggest they were better than ours?Because possession is about more than 2 people in midfield, and dominating is about more than just possession.
Whichever way you look at it, Scholes / Fletcher in a 2 is a truly awful midfield for Manchester United in 2012, it's unreal.
I don't give a feck whether you're having it or not. Anderson does do enough work tracking players back to his own box.Not having that.
Watch the Braga away game again and you'll see the vast amount of defensive work he got through. In the games where it is needed, Anderson isn't shy of putting a defensive shift in.
What did the QPR midfielders do? They were better after all.Yes & what did we do with that possession. We were 0-1 down against QPR at home with that pairing and didn't even look like scoring until the changes.
Practically every poster on here could have guessed we would have lots of possession and do nothing with it due to the central
midfield pairing.
Great post. Due to Barcelona possession stats have become a crutch for every midfield argument.Most of our midfield combinations are capable of holding the majority of possession against teams like QPR. The problem is that, often, it's innocuous possession because the likes of Scholes, Carrick and (now) Fletcher all sit deep, and we become one dimensional as a result.
What's more, when teams do turn over the ball, we're astonishingly easy to play through with the old stagers in the side.
In 90% of games, United's midfield 'dominates' ball possession, but in football you don't need a majority of the ball to cause damage. We need to play Cleverley and/or Anderson more frequently for two reasons - 1) more attacking variety, and 2) more recovery pace.
I've yet to see an argument provided for how QPR's midfield was better.Great post. Due to Barcelona possession stats have become a crutch for every midfield argument.
I never said they were, neither midfield was particularly good, my point was that citing possession stats doesn't tell the whole story, our biggest problem is when we don't have the ball, there is no hustle of pace in there and teams run through us, twice yesterday at least QPR simply drove through our center, fortunately they were clueless once they reached the final third.I've yet to see an argument provided for how QPR's midfield was better.
QuiteI never said they were, neither midfield was particularly good, my point was that citing possession stats doesn't tell the whole story, our biggest problem is when we don't have the ball, there is no hustle of pace in there and teams run through us, twice yesterday at least QPR simply drove through our center, fortunately they were clueless once they reached the final third.
Yep. Because they haven't got the legs or balls to break through the lines like Anderson and Cleverley can. Giggs on form has the ability to make things happen but he's been terrible recentlyCarrick, Scholes, Giggs and Fletcher (fitness issues) are not very effective against teams who press the ball.
Giggs is a victim of the circumstances. His best position should be starting as the most advanced midfielder in a 3 man midfield or coming of the bench and trying to unlock rigid defenses. He is a flair player not a distributor. It should not be his job to provide midfield control.Yep. Because they haven't got the legs or balls to break through the lines like Anderson and Cleverley can. Giggs on form has the ability to make things happen but he's been terrible recently
Don't you think rotation is important now that we are playing pretty much a game every 4 days?I think the most important thing is that we start playing with the same two midfielders week in week out, this rotation is stupid, we should know who is going to start in the centre most weeks instead of it being a pick and mix. Be it Clevs and Carrick, Ando and Clevs or Carrick and Ando, SAF should just make his mind up.
Part of the problem is our best option currently would to be have Anderson and Cleverly start however both need to show they can play 90 minutes on a regular basis I don't think the management have confidence in this happening. I think one option would be to have those two rotating with probably Carrick taking the other spot in midfield and make sure we always have one or the other on the pitch.I think the most important thing is that we start playing with the same two midfielders week in week out, this rotation is stupid, we should know who is going to start in the centre most weeks instead of it being a pick and mix. Be it Clevs and Carrick, Ando and Clevs or Carrick and Ando, SAF should just make his mind up.
I think it is important to know your best players but rotation (though between Fletch, Carrick, Ando and Clev for the midfield) is not a bad idea at this stage of the season. You give everyone games and time to get their bearings right for the business end of the season. As you said, I think a consistent midfield and defensive pairing is paramount to pose a serious challenge in the knock out stages of the champions league and run of victories in the premier league. Hopefully, when time comes Carrick, Cleverley and Anderson will be fit and on form, as for me they are the three best midfielders in our squad.Premier league games should have set starters, Cup games and European cup games should have set starters.
There is obviously room for flexibility when fixtures pile up but can you honestly say you know which two players Sir Alex sees as our real starters? Pretty much all top teams have a set starting XI which is played when possible. People always talk about the importance of a solid CB pairing and also a good strike partnership who understand each other, why don't people think the same when it comes to the midfield.
Where in any of my posts do I say such a thing?What did QPR's midfield pairing do to suggest they were better than ours?
This is possibly the thing that Fergie's clinging to by playing Scholes and Carrick so frequently.Just to back up the folly of a stats based argument, we had 74% possession against Spurs, with a 90% passing accuracy. They still ran through us for all their goals and deserved their win. Most people would unanimously say their midfield was better that day. Despite having 26% of possession & only 76% passing accuracy.
It's not how big it is, it's what you do with it that counts.
I agree, these days he does yes.I don't give a feck whether you're having it or not. Anderson does do enough work tracking players back to his own box.
It was meant to say doesn't. Which he doesn't.I agree, these days he does yes.
So what are we debating?
I know but that was where the debate started.I never said they were, neither midfield was particularly good, my point was that citing possession stats doesn't tell the whole story, our biggest problem is when we don't have the ball, there is no hustle of pace in there and teams run through us, twice yesterday at least QPR simply drove through our center, fortunately they were clueless once they reached the final third.
They'd be wrong though. They surrendered the midfield to protect their defence. They just happened to a couple of times take advantage of a particular weakness we have displayed.Just to back up the folly of a stats based argument, we had 74% possession against Spurs, with a 90% passing accuracy. They still ran through us for all their goals and deserved their win. Most people would unanimously say their midfield was better that day. Despite having 26% of possession & only 76% passing accuracy.
It's not how big it is, it's what you do with it that counts.
None of our midfielders are great at tracking runs and keeping things tight in the middle. Ando though gives us much more legs defensively than Scholes Giggs and the like.It was meant to say doesn't. Which he doesn't.
Read back to the post you initially quoted me on and what I was talking about and maybe then you'll understand what's going on.Where in any of my posts do I say such a thing?
You reckon possession stats show that our midfield "bossed" the game, I think, as Mockey has pointed out, that "bossing" a game is about much more than possession. I give our defence most credit for our possession stats to be honest.
He should but frequently he doesn't. Carrick does all the defensive work in our midfield.None of our midfielders are great at tracking runs and keeping things tight in the middle. Ando though gives us much more legs defensively than Scholes Giggs and the like.
They didn't surrender midfield, they just didn't feel the need to do anything with Carrick and Scholes pointlessly rolling the ball between themselves for ages. Instead they waited until we approached their area and then killed us since neither Carrick nor Scholes ran back.They'd be wrong though. They surrendered the midfield to protect their defence. They just happened to a couple of times take advantage of a particular weakness we have displayed.
I think you need to read back. I simply responded to you claiming our midfield "bossed" them. They did nothing of the sort.Read back to the post you initially quoted me on and what I was talking about and maybe then you'll understand what's going on.