Television Breaking Bad

Only partway through Season 2, so I've just scrolled down straight to the quick reply box and I'll check for replies when I'm properly caught up.

I really really don't like Skyler. The way she says "Marie...is a SHOPLIFTER!" is like how I might say "Dave...EATS BABIES!" she sighs every five minutes in a really overdramatic way, she made that intervention where they ask Walt to take treatment entirely about her. She's just really annoying. Her sister isn't much better.

Great show though, I'm getting through episodes as fast as I can.
 
I think it's written in the rules of US shows that the immediate family of the protagonist has to be an annoying clusterfeck of balls and chains, especially the wife who needs to also have an air of moral superiority.
 
Can't beat a good 'ol bit of misogyny in the entertainment forum.
 
Fully caught up now, can't believe I have to wait til July for the next episode. That Ecstasy video is superb.

Reading through the thread in surprised how much hate there is for Walt, by far my favourite character and Cranston really does an outstanding job in portraying him.
 
The hate for Walt isn't in the sense that he's a bad character, he's amazing and the performance from Cranston is absolutely superb. For me the journey from backing him to thinking he's a complete cnut is a huge part of the development of the show - brilliantly written.
 
Fully caught up now, can't believe I have to wait til July for the next episode. That Ecstasy video is superb.

Reading through the thread in surprised how much hate there is for Walt, by far my favourite character and Cranston really does an outstanding job in portraying him.

I liked him at the start, I now hate what he turned into at the end of the 4th series and basically for the whole of the 5th.
 
I didn't say it was realistic, so what are you on about?

I don't see how you can watch seasons three to five and say they're 'black humour', unless you have a really odd sense of humour. You said yourself, it's drama, pure drama, there's almost no comedy aspect left anymore, in fact the other two shows you've mentioned (The Wire/Sopranos) had far more comedy moments in them throughout their seasons.

It's not realistic in the sense that the characters are caricatures. Their behaviour is OTT and inconsistent. It makes for great TV but in a soap-opera kind of way, which means the 'grim' episodes are also hard to take seriously.

I really like the show, but it has no depth or substance. It's popcorn TV. Nothing wrong with that of course.
 
I think it's really harsh to call it popcorn TV, it has a lot of depth and substance.

Shows like Game of Thrones and Strike Back are what I'd call popcorn TV, then shows like Revenge are the "soap-opera" crap.
 
It's not realistic in the sense that the characters are caricatures. Their behaviour is OTT and inconsistent. It makes for great TV but in a soap-opera kind of way, which means the 'grim' episodes are also hard to take seriously.

I really like the show, but it has no depth or substance. It's popcorn TV. Nothing wrong with that of course.

This is laughable. Seriously. No depth or substance? :lol:
 
It's not realistic in the sense that the characters are caricatures. Their behaviour is OTT and inconsistent. It makes for great TV but in a soap-opera kind of way, which means the 'grim' episodes are also hard to take seriously.

I really like the show, but it has no depth or substance. It's popcorn TV. Nothing wrong with that of course.

In what way is their behaviour inconsistent?

If you're going to make claims like that, at least back it up with some examples. Not really getting the caricature claim either, even Hank who at the start of the show is the closest to that claim has developed into a character with many facets to his personality.
 
Only partway through Season 2, so I've just scrolled down straight to the quick reply box and I'll check for replies when I'm properly caught up.

I really really don't like Skyler. The way she says "Marie...is a SHOPLIFTER!" is like how I might say "Dave...EATS BABIES!" she sighs every five minutes in a really overdramatic way, she made that intervention where they ask Walt to take treatment entirely about her. She's just really annoying. Her sister isn't much better.

Great show though, I'm getting through episodes as fast as I can.

Same here, I want to punch her in the cnut. I don't get the hate for Walter either, he got into a situation that got out of hand really fast but he did it for all the good reasons in the first place.
 
Walt is a pretty cool guy. He cooks meth and doesnt afraid of anything.

I think his transformation from law abiding Teacher to Drug Overlord (such a cool job title) in such a short space of time is remarkable. If you think back to S1 and how he struggled with his first kill (can't remember the guy's name) and how shocked he was with Tuco's violence it's a massive turnaround. As he said to Skyler it's him who is now the danger (though I was sad to see Gus go).
 
Skyler is a massive pain in the balls. However if you discovered that your partner, a relatively plain man working a modest job as a high school teacher, became a drug lord it would probably turn you into a wining puss bag as well.

I still like Walt, even if he has been a bit of a cnut throughout the last 2 seasons. He's pretty cool and ruthless as well. I wouldn't want him to be my dad but he's good for entertainment value. He started out as trying to provide for his family when he dies and ended up being a bit of an egotistical maniac.

I still hope he comes out the other side and can go back to his former self, albeit a bit bolder, but without the same ruthlessness.
 
Skyler reacts like any other person would. Never got the hate. It would be stupid if she just accepted he was a drug lord even if it was for the family. I like the way she eventually came round and has proven to have some smarts about her in the process. Obviously some mistakes mostly involving Ted but still.
 
Skyler reacts like any other person would. Never got the hate. It would be stupid if she just accepted he was a drug lord even if it was for the family. I like the way she eventually came round and has proven to have some smarts about her in the process. Obviously some mistakes mostly involving Ted but still.

Definitely but she's still a bitch. Wishing cancer on Walt wasn't cool.
 
Can't beat a good 'ol bit of misogyny in the entertainment forum.

If that was aimed at me, pointing out that US tv often portrays the wives of the protagonists as disproving, morally superior and an anchor on him doing what he wants to do (what he wants to do being the point of the show) isn't misogynistic.

I'm pointing out that the writing of families, especially the wives is fairly poor. Currently they are often written as a barrier to the entertainment that needs to be 'gotten around' and it can result in a strong dislike of the character if there isn't enough payoff; Skyler is a good example of it, Margaret Schroeder is another, Rita Bennett, very nice character but often fell into the same trap.

It isn't a hatred of women to point it out any more than it's a hatred of black people to laugh at The Walking Dead's carousel of token black characters.
 
Agree with the comments about wives being used as obstacles to get around to provide the entertainment.

Dexter season 4 spoiler:

Rita was pretty annoying at times but she was still needed for the show. Although the season 4 finale was epic the show lost its way a lot when she died. She could look after the kids and let Dexter do his thing, while providing an anchor for him morally. And she was fit!
 
Thought the actress that played Skyler was very good. Hated her character at times but I think that was probably the idea. Good writing to get you to hate her whilst liking the murdering meth dealer husband, really.

Can't really understand any criticism of the writing of the show like that above (regarding how realistic it is). Of all the shows I have ever watched, The Sopranos is the only one that is pretty much flawless. The Wire is a close second to that.

Considering how much of a transformation Walt's character has undergone, they've made it so fluid and believable. As far as individual scenes and events go, even in season 5 with the train the scene was about as believable as they could've made it. I just don't really see how anyone could possibly justify saying that Breaking Bad is popcorn television - it's an absolute masterpiece. Sure, the standard of acting isn't as refined as the aforementioned 2 programs, but exactly how many programmes are of that standard in that sense?
 
I think his transformation from law abiding Teacher to Drug Overlord (such a cool job title) in such a short space of time is remarkable. If you think back to S1 and how he struggled with his first kill (can't remember the guy's name) and how shocked he was with Tuco's violence it's a massive turnaround. As he said to Skyler it's him who is now the danger (though I was sad to see Gus go).

Yep, I said much the same on the last page. His transformation and how smoothly and gradually it has happened is amazing. Watching season 1 again is something everyone should do after finishing season 5 first half.

That episode where he kills Crazy 8 is excellent. The first two episodes are mostly getting started, many signs of a good show but nothing too special, and then BOOM, that 10/10 episode. Thats when I knew this was going to be a special show. I dont think Ive ever had so much sympathy for a murderer. Cranston in that episode is Emmy-worthy.
 
Skyler reacts like any other person would. Never got the hate. It would be stupid if she just accepted he was a drug lord even if it was for the family. I like the way she eventually came round and has proven to have some smarts about her in the process. Obviously some mistakes mostly involving Ted but still.

I think Skyler also serves an important role in the show in making it clear that any person, even the most moralistic (her judgmental reaction to her sister's shoplifting is a bit laughable), will be able to cross their own boundaries for the sake of their families.

Walt is the extreme example, but Skyler also does some things that would be considered impossible for her in the beginning. She ends up laundering Walt's money and even goes so far as to essentially threatening Ted with death (its not her intention when she visits him in the hospital but she goes along with it when she understands what Ted thinks she is there for) for the safety of her family.

She also isnt actually that bitchy in season 1, her increasing bitchyness is a natural reaction to seeing Walt turn to actions she is against and not being able to do anything about it because it would hurt her children.
 
She also isnt actually that bitchy in season 1, her increasing bitchyness is a natural reaction to seeing Walt turn to actions she is against and not being able to do anything about it because it would hurt her children.

I'd say the intervention scene said a lot about her as a character. Refusing to let anyone speak without the cushion and insisting that they were allowed to say what they think no matter how painful... until it was someone else's turn and she didn't like what they had to say so she talked over them.
 
I guess but its also a natural reaction because at that point she still loves Walt and is afraid of losing him more than anything else. She engineers the intervention hoping to make Walt take a decision to get chemo but then everyone else go against her wishes. At least she thinks she is acting in Walt's interest.

The "silent treatment" crap and storming out of the room in silence that she resorts to a lot more later in the series, as well as being gone from the house, not letting Walt know what she is up to to "get back at him" is way more frustrating to watch as a viewer, and a lot more selfish and bitchy as well. To me at least.

In the first season she mostly acts out of caring, though admittedly in a controlling fashion that can easily be interpreted as being a bitch.
 
Same here, I want to punch her in the cnut. I don't get the hate for Walter either, he got into a situation that got out of hand really fast but he did it for all the good reasons in the first place.

I think its the fact that he started out like that, looking out for his family, but its turned into so much more. He's doing unnecassary things to feed his ego like blurting things out over the dinner table and
killing mike.
Personally I still love his character though. Its epic.

Can't really understand any criticism of the writing of the show like that above (regarding how realistic it is). Of all the shows I have ever watched, The Sopranos is the only one that is pretty much flawless. The Wire is a close second to that.

Considering how much of a transformation Walt's character has undergone, they've made it so fluid and believable. As far as individual scenes and events go, even in season 5 with the train the scene was about as believable as they could've made it. I just don't really see how anyone could possibly justify saying that Breaking Bad is popcorn television - it's an absolute masterpiece. Sure, the standard of acting isn't as refined as the aforementioned 2 programs, but exactly how many programmes are of that standard in that sense?

I agree, its not simply popcorn tv, and the writing is unbelievable. What I've been trying to get at is the 'feel' of it makes it easy watching, for me.

I'd say the intervention scene said a lot about her as a character. Refusing to let anyone speak without the cushion and insisting that they were allowed to say what they think no matter how painful... until it was someone else's turn and she didn't like what they had to say so she talked over them.

Great shout. Shows exactly what she is like but at the same time shows how desperate she is. I wonder how much she ever really loved Walt though and whether she was just worried about money and her kids if he died?
 
If that was aimed at me, pointing out that US tv often portrays the wives of the protagonists as disproving, morally superior and an anchor on him doing what he wants to do (what he wants to do being the point of the show) isn't misogynistic.

I'm pointing out that the writing of families, especially the wives is fairly poor. Currently they are often written as a barrier to the entertainment that needs to be 'gotten around' and it can result in a strong dislike of the character if there isn't enough payoff; Skyler is a good example of it, Margaret Schroeder is another, Rita Bennett, very nice character but often fell into the same trap.

It isn't a hatred of women to point it out any more than it's a hatred of black people to laugh at The Walking Dead's carousel of token black characters.

Not aimed at you at all, it's just a well-established trend on here to trash every key female character. Even if they're great characters who add plenty to the show.

I agree with your general point that there is a lot of lazy writing when it comes to the main wife but I don't remotely agree that it applies to Skyler, Carmela Soprano or many of the other names often mentioned here. They're great characters. I agree with Mike:

I hate Skylar for the right reasons. She does her job very well as a character.

Even then I don't hate Skylar and can identify with any of her decisions/reactions/feelings. She's got fecked over in this whole thing but people expect her to just go along for the ride and watch her husband run her family into the ground? Or she's supposed to be deeply concerned and upset about the whole situation but still provide constant entertainment? There has to be some balance. When you've got a character as extreme as Walt then you're going to have someone who rails against that in a big way. Walt's such a great character that anyone trying to prevent him from doing what he's doing - as any normal person would do - will annoy people but I don't know what else she's meant to do? And I agree with Brosstan, her own character arc's been well though-out and provides its own interesting storylines now.
 
Not aimed at you at all, it's just a well-established trend on here to trash every key female character. Even if they're great characters who add plenty to the show.

I agree with your general point that there is a lot of lazy writing when it comes to the main wife but I don't remotely agree that it applies to Skyler, Carmela Soprano or many of the other names often mentioned here. They're great characters. I agree with Mike:



Even then I don't hate Skylar and can identify with any of her decisions/reactions/feelings. She's got fecked over in this whole thing but people expect her to just go along for the ride and watch her husband run her family into the ground? Or she's supposed to be deeply concerned and upset about the whole situation but still provide constant entertainment? There has to be some balance. When you've got a character as extreme as Walt then you're going to have someone who rails against that in a big way. Walt's such a great character that anyone trying to prevent him from doing what he's doing - as any normal person would do - will annoy people but I don't know what else she's meant to do? And I agree with Brosstan, her own character arc's been well though-out and provides its own interesting storylines now.
I agree, I don't understand why people hate Carmella at all. Even Rita in Dexter copped a lot of odd hate.
 
So I've finished the Season 2 DVD and now I've realised that the usual place that I report TV shows to the authorities hasn't actually got any TV shows for me to report at the moment.

I need to report the next three seasons, guys :(.
 
The transformation of both Walt and Skyler was perfect for me.

You see Walt slipping into Heisenberg, the switch in his head clicks twice, once when he gets the cancer and has to do all he can to look after his family and then it clicks into overdrive when he then realises that he no longer has that family to look after because Skyler makes sure of that.

The change in Skyler, first of all dealing with the cancer and the change in her husband who she thinks is having an affair is the first click, the second click is when she finds out about the drug world and realises that no matter what she does Walt is too smart for her and she is trapped - until he dies.

The way these stories, along with Hanks and Jessie's who have similar watershed moments of their own, all arc together so beautifully while tieing in with the story line and then the secondary characters like Fringes and Mike and Saul again having character defining acts of strength and weakness that again tie in so brilliantly with Walt, Jessie, Hank and Skylers arcs is just phenomenal writing.

It's just all timed and balanced together so delicately. I can't wait for the finale while at the same time don't want it to come... But at the same time don't want the to drag it for longer than it needs. Best TV show I have ever watched.
 
eric le roi's favourite past-time on here is reminding people how unrealistic this show is. To me it seems pretty clear that he went into the show hoping it would be another Sopranos/The Wire - in terms of having that same gritty, realistic style as well as having that quality writing - and just because it doesn't try to emulate those shows but instead has its own way of doing things then it gets criticised. If you buy into the premise of the show from the beginning - school-teacher has life-changing moment, abandons all of his principles (except caring for his family) and becomes a major drug dealer - then the behaviour is entirely consistent. Some of the other criticisms are ridiculous. It's not a top drama simply because it has a soundtrack - i.e. everything has to subscribe to the same format (e.g. the Wire/Sopranos) or its not good enough. Strange. They might've perfected one style but that doesn't mean that anything that can't recreate that same level of realism is subpar. Making an ultra-realistic TV program is not the pinnacle of writing, it's just one way of doing things. And I love slow-building, realistic, absorbing drama myself.

Breaking Bad is OTT. It has been from the beginning. That's a style choice not a sign of poor writing. As is the soundtrack - it's not there to cover up poor writing or acting, it's not there to manufacture a feeling or atmosphere that couldn't otherwise exist, it's just there to enhance it. Soundtracks done well don't get in the way of good drama. Does the soundtrack in the Godfather somehow take away any of its gritty, realistic feel? I just don't understand that at all. The storylines are well-crafted, the acting's excellent and it's shot perfectly - that's the substance. I'd like to see what other shows eric would call great TV and see how Breaking Bad compares to them.

It seems to me it's gotten to the point where because the Wire was so good at what it did that people now think that's the only way to make a great TV show. It's like when Barcelona became universally regarded as one of the best teams to play the game that loads of people suddenly decided that their way was the way to play football. They perfected their own style but that doesn't mean any other style is below par and all others must try to emulate it. When totaalvoetball was pioneered the rest of the world didn't try to play in the same way. They tried to emulate aspects of it, sure, but there was a unique set of circumstances that allowed them to create something special. The same I'm sure is true of the Wire. And you might love Ajax's unique style to the extent were it simply can't be surpassed but that doesn't mean Sacchi's Milan or Di Stefano's Madrid can't be considered similarly great despite having their own distinct styles with their own flaws that didn't exist in that Ajax team.
 
I wouldn't even put The Sopranos in the same high end realism format as The Wire. The Sopranos had plenty of cliches and even fecking dream sequences! The West Wing - another regular on GOAT lists - is also hugely idealised and unrealistic compared to actual politics. Both were still fantastic shows.

If he's going to spend his time complaining things can't be great because they aren't as realistic or as in depth as The Wire then he's going to be massively disappointed with everything that's ever been and ever will be on TV.
 
Was he actually complaining though? I thought it was just some people saying how gritty and dark it is vs others disagreeing?
 
I wouldn't even put The Sopranos in the same high end realism format as The Wire. The Sopranos had plenty of cliches and even fecking dream sequences! The West Wing - another regular on GOAT lists - is also hugely idealised and unrealistic compared to actual politics. Both were still fantastic shows.

If he's going to spend his time complaining things can't be great because they aren't as realistic as The Wire then he's going to be massively disappointed with everything that's ever been and ever will be on TV.

Yeah I was going to say, The Sopranos has taken a lot of liberties in order to incorporate comical and dramatic tones into the show. "Pine Barrens", probably one of the most loved episodes of TV ever, removes a lot of realism in order to have its hilarious moments.
 
Gritty, dark and hyper realistic don't all need to be the same thing. The Wire is a stand out anomaly in TV (or indeed any visual media) for the sprawling, in depth, multi-faceted, completely straight look at a city it took. Comparing anything to it, let alone a show that isn't about the same thing or attempting to be made in the same style, is futile, and faintly bonkers.

Yeah I was going to say, The Sopranos has taken a lot of liberties in order to incorporate comical and dramatic tones into the show. "Pine Barrens", probably one of the most loved episodes of TV ever, removes a lot of realism in order to have its hilarious moments.

Fo' Sho. You put Silvio Dante in The Wire and he'd look ridiculous just standing in the background.

That's it! Not as good.
 
eric le roi's favourite past-time on here is reminding people how unrealistic this show is. To me it seems pretty clear that he went into the show hoping it would be another Sopranos/The Wire - in terms of having that same gritty, realistic style as well as having that quality writing.

Yes, with all the rave reviews it was getting, I was expecting something more. It turns out to be a thoroughly entertaining show as long as you're happy to let a lot of things slide. It does remind me of a soap opera, or those old Flash Gordon serials where at the end of one episode you see our heroes meet certain death only to reveal at the start of the next episode they were all wearing invincibility suits.

Just the very fact that Walt leaves the book in the bathroom at the end of the last series beggars belief, after we've spent 5 series of watching him being thoroughly meticulous in everything he does. There are countless other examples of such inconsistencies throughout all the seasons.

Yes it's pointless trying to compare it to The Wire. I do enjoy the show but on a completely different level. Like Coke v Chateau Lafite Rothschild. Both good in completely different ways.

@Brwned - I wasn't really complaining about the show per se, more the way people were making it out to be the drama of the century.
 
He certainly was complaining!

Just finished Season 4. It's good viewing but to compare it to something like the Sopranos is wrong. They are completely different genres imo.

Sopranos
  • No soundtrack required to create a mood.
  • Very consistent characterisation - nobody ever acts out of character.
  • Deus Ex Machina never required.
  • Each episode self-contained - very rare to have a "cliffhanger".
  • Realistic (as far as we know)

Breaking Bad
  • Soundtrack to create mood.
  • Wildly inconsistent characterisation - lost count of the number of times I've thought "lol why the feck would they do that?"
  • Lost count of the Deus Ex Machina used.
  • Cliffhanger in almost every episode.
  • Clearly far-fetched.


I think the soundtrack point is possibly the most relevant one for me. Really good drama doesn't need one. Unless it's opera.

Crappy; I agree and I actually really like Rita myself. Seems to me that any wife/girlfriend that doesn't go down to Lumen route of supporting and going along with the main character's motivations and actions -even when they're as unsettling and detestable as Walt's/Dexter's - is seen as an annoying character. I don't know what people expect of the writers though, without characters like these the show would just spiral out of control. It's unrealistic to expect to like every character and I'm not even sure why people would want that - surely the writers are meant to try and evoke a full range of emotions? So I understand completely when people complain about how annoying they are but annoying characters are not poor characters yet some people talk about them as if they're interchangeable.
 
Breaking Bad would have been an excellent ultra realistic show. Teacher turns drug dealer. Either gets killed in first episodes for crossing wrong person, arrested, or ultimately retires when intensive chemotherapy starts and he's unable to take the physical strain required. The end. Midway through series one.

Yes, with all the rave reviews it was getting, I was expecting something more. It turns out to be a thoroughly entertaining show as long as you're happy to let a lot of things slide. It does remind me of a soap opera, or those old Flash Gordon serials where at the end of one episode you see our heroes meet certain death only to reveal at the start of the next episode they were all wearing invincibility suits.

Just the very fact that Walt leaves the book in the bathroom at the end of the last series beggars belief, after we've spent 5 series of watching him being thoroughly meticulous in everything he does. There are countless other examples of such inconsistencies throughout all the seasons.

Yes it's pointless trying to compare it to The Wire. I do enjoy the show but on a completely different level. Like Coke v Chateau Lafite Rothschild. Both good in completely different ways.

Walt never was meticulous in later seasons though - what about when he has dinner with Hank and Marie, when Hank thinks he's got Heisenberg, yet it's Walt unable to accept somewhere else getting the credit who basically eggs on Hank to keep looking for his man?

The guy gets increasingly arrogant in later season. As shown by the whole "I am the danger" thing, he gets to the point where he believes he can't be taken down. Plus to be meticulous about just about everything ever when leading a second life would be pretty damn hard. I mean that book in anyone elses hands isn't incriminating in the slightest, maybe he took it with him when he first got it, went to the toilet, forgot he put it down... No one is switched on 100% of the time.