What does Cliffhangers have to do with anything?
Television Breaking Bad
- Thread starter Burndogg
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Ooh Brwned will answer that one for you!
Surely a trait of an unrealistic show is a desire to contain it's story elements in a single 40 minute run time?
What's wrong any plot device, for that matter? If it furthers the show in the coherent manner and is entertaining why would anything else matter?
I don't disagree with some of what you've said I just think it seems like sometimes - because of these huge expectations - you're simply looking for something to criticise. If you'd went in with that attitude to the Sopranos you could come up with similar plot-holes and other criticisms.
I don't think that's inconsistent behaviour from Walt at all because there's been a move away from his usual meticulous nature at various points throughout the season. Whether that's because of the even more extreme mental pressures he's been under or because he now feels like he's the king, I don't know, but I don't think it's just a one-off moment just to manufacture those dramatic peaks that BB specialises in. Whether this change in behaviour throughout the season is implausible is another thing all together and if you believe so fair enough, but I think it's unfair to say they're just lazily adding plot devices to spice things up. As crappy said at the time when you made the same criticism:
Exactly. Breaking Bad is, essentially, the Coen Brothers meets Sergio Leone, with fantastic results. Contrarily, I can find ultra-realistic TV to be restrictive in a way in that its scope for elements like humour, tension, cinematography and scoring are limited by the world to which its committed.
So long as the characters behave believably, which they very much do (and have to essentially as this show is the arc of two characters, Walt and Jesse), stylistic choices are at the behest of the showrunner.
Skyler is used a barrier that Walt has to get around- she is fairly effective in that role because she is a controlling, confrontational person who tracks Walt's suspicious behaviour, she is a dislikeable character.
We see him work multiple jobs and get humiliated at them, we see him when he starts suffering with illness and finds out he has cancer, and decides to risk his life and reputation and do horrible things that were against his nature to try and leave some money for his family's sake, only to be harassed, talked down to and pressured by Skyler.
I haven't seen The Sopranos yet, I got the box set for Christmas and am waiting until I'm in the mood to watch them. From what I've seen of Camilla she appears to be disapproving and moralistic.. but we shall see.
I remember you saying that you haven't seen Boardwalk Empire so I won't rant about how great I thought Margaret Schroeder was in the first season.. and then she became another one of these characters.
Dexter
Rita and the children also have the 'obstacle' role in the first few seasons of Dexter. Her story seemed to serve as a way to create problems for Dexter to solve and provide dilemma fodder- Again I have sympathy with her as a character, she starts out meek and with serious issues and overcomes them so I liked her as a character and the writers did well in the development department, but she fell into the trap of being there to get in the way of the protagonist doing what the show is about.
The Wire, was slightly different since the main character wasn't the be all and end all of the show and his ex-wife isn't a key character but I'll discuss it anyway.
The Wire with McNulty and his ex-wife was interesting, at first all you really see is that he's motivated to provide and care for his family and she's using custody of his children as a weapon and generally being a terrible person- but then as the series progresses it shows you just how screwed up McNulty is as a character with his drinking and self destruction, and that she isn't a bad person- and the best thing for the show was that she was mostly independent from him. I thought they did their relationship very well- but I suppose it's easier given that she wasn't really in the show very often and her progression as a character is implied (and reactive to McNulty) rather than shown.
I dont really see what eric le roi means when he says that Breaking Bad has "countless" uses of deus ex machina, unless he doesnt know what that is or has such a loose definition of what it means that any clever solution to a problem becomes one.
Like "ohh Walt is trapped in the RV with the drug dealers, hes surely fecked now!. What! He used some chemicals to get out alive?!? Thats so unrealistic, its not like hes a chemistry expert or anything!! deus ex machina omgomg im such a film buff for using that term!!"
Deus ex machina would be if the episode ended with him trapped, everything looking bleak. Then next episode starts with the police coming, sirens howling and the dealers run away leaving Walt alone.
Id like to see some examples of so called deus ex machina in Breaking Bad.
Like "ohh Walt is trapped in the RV with the drug dealers, hes surely fecked now!. What! He used some chemicals to get out alive?!? Thats so unrealistic, its not like hes a chemistry expert or anything!! deus ex machina omgomg im such a film buff for using that term!!"
Deus ex machina would be if the episode ended with him trapped, everything looking bleak. Then next episode starts with the police coming, sirens howling and the dealers run away leaving Walt alone.
Id like to see some examples of so called deus ex machina in Breaking Bad.
I'm not sure I agree at all that her role is limited to this but let's say you're right. Does that make her a bad character?
I watched the first season and a half of Boardwalk I think, I quite liked Margaret. Didn't understand all the criticism again.
Eugh, no, Margaret is a terribly written character. You go from pitying her in the first season to really disliking her by the end of season 2. She's the opposite of the likes of Skylar and whomever, cause (BWE spoiler ahead, kinda)
Nucky basically rescues her from the abyss, and once she gains her new riches and servants that she would never have had were it not for him, she starts acting like a snob, constantly giving out, asking for things and making his life more difficult.
I'd say it makes her dislikeable- not a terrible character, she is well defined and makes enough sense to be considered good- just dislikeable. My criticism is more about the fact that wives of protagonists tend to have similar features, and that is what is dislikeable- not the fact she is a woman but the fact she is too in the way and morally superior.
Of course, she does have a bit of her own thing going on when she starts working again, I'd say that was done alright- it did a good job of knocking her down off her moral pedestal with the fuddling of the accounts and sets her down the track to aiding Walt's money laundering.
On Margaret Schroeder it will be interesting to see if you feel the same way after 2 seasons. I really liked her in season 1.
Fring's laptop somehow being conveniently on that side of the room and smashed with the use of the magnet. It only fell on the floor. Are you saying the police would not employ computers experts to somehow get the components out and get it working? I found that the most unrealistic part of the entire show. They were doomed there, but got away.
The laptop didn't stop working because falling on the floor broke it, it stopped working become the magnet wiped the data clear. Were you even paying attention?
Magnets destroy computers' memory.
Oh yeah (BWE discussion)
The way she treats Nucky as if he's an asshole for what he does, but still accepts everything he gives her is disgusting.
He's a slippery guy, but my sense is that he really does care about her and the children in season 2 and yet when she's asked if she loves him she basically says no but "he provides for me and my children, and he isn't cruel to me... " urghh
Then what she does at the end of season 2...feck me that was terrible
He's a slippery guy, but my sense is that he really does care about her and the children in season 2 and yet when she's asked if she loves him she basically says no but "he provides for me and my children, and he isn't cruel to me... " urghh
Then what she does at the end of season 2...feck me that was terrible
I'm talking about the reason why it isn't tried. They don't try it. They reason they give for it as they are going through the damage is "damaged, broken screen". At no point do they say it's for any other reason. I remember at the time the episode was shown and there was a discussion as to whether it would do it, and most tech nerds were sceptical given the distance between magnet and object.
fecking magnets, how do they work?
Yeah agree with that there. More so than the other programs in its league, definitely.
Yeah, can't understand for the life of me why Carmela Soprano in particular would get any stick. Seen it on here recently and it's bizarre! She is a cracking actress and a fantastic character.Brwned said:
I bet if eric le roi was cast in a tv show he'd be the really annoying wife that nobody liked.
Thats just the guards of the evidence room going through the effects on every single item, not the tech experts checking the hard drives... Hes just stating that the screen is broken so they can note down the changes through the item.
What do you mean, "isnt tried?" That they dont try to turn it on? It would serve no purpose, they already showed that the magnet would destroy a computer at that distance earlier in the show.
Whether it would work IRL is something for mythbusters to check out, and even if it doesnt work, its not a deus ex machina. Do people even know what that term means? The end of the War of the Worlds is a deus ex machina. Coming up with a clever solution that might not be scientifically correct is not.
The only thing I can think that comes close to deus ex machina is when Hank came along and killed Tuco. Even that is marginal because there's a fairly decent reason for Hank being there.
Dues ex machina gets used loads on the caf now. I blame Mockney. He did the same thing with ontological for a while.
Hagiography actually.
Shush, you'll start it again! Ontological was a red herring.
I quite like the word obfuscate too.
Obfuscate
Obfuscate
Aaron Paul let slip that the rest of the show will be airing from July 14th. That's ages away
Super post. Calling BB a soap-opera is the most bizarre criticism I have read so far.
This is in Brighton
Season 4 Spoiler
Season 4 Spoiler
That's a spoiler, ye might wanna let people know.
Just started series 3, its heavy this show but unmissable. Need to find me series 4 soon.
Don't PM me when you're ready for it.
That graffiti is absolutely amazing.
Carmela was the character she was intended to be. A hypocritical cnut. It was well written and well acted. I think you were supposed to dislike her. On the subject of female characters The Sopranos did it quite well. Livia was superb for example.
okay I wont
Yeah you're right there. Livia was an amazing character and her character was a fantastic portrayal of mental illness. Couldn't help but sympathise with Carmela throughout the show, though - didn't dislike her for the most part.
Adriana La Cerva was quality too, obviously...
Her death...shit. Well that must just about be one of the most devastating scenes in any TV show ever surely.
When is it back again? May?
Unconfirmed, all that's been said is summer.
Just caught up there, only started watching back in September. Great show! Only shows like this I've really watched are Lost and Heroes, so I dont really have much to compare it to, but this is amazing. Shit thing is now I actually have to wait for the second half of series 5. Do we know how many series left there are?