Television Breaking Bad

Surely a trait of an unrealistic show is a desire to contain it's story elements in a single 40 minute run time?
 
eric le roi said:
Yes, with all the rave reviews it was getting, I was expecting something more. It turns out to be a thoroughly entertaining show as long as you're happy to let a lot of things slide. It does remind me of a soap opera, or those old Flash Gordon serials where at the end of one episode you see our heroes meet certain death only to reveal at the start of the next episode they were all wearing invincibility suits.

Just the very fact that Walt leaves the book in the bathroom at the end of the last series beggars belief, after we've spent 5 series of watching him being thoroughly meticulous in everything he does. There are countless other examples of such inconsistencies throughout all the seasons.

Yes it's pointless trying to compare it to The Wire. I do enjoy the show but on a completely different level. Like Coke v Chateau Lafite Rothschild. Both good in completely different ways.

@Brwned - I wasn't really complaining about the show per se, more the way people were making it out to be the drama of the century.
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I don't disagree with some of what you've said I just think it seems like sometimes - because of these huge expectations - you're simply looking for something to criticise. If you'd went in with that attitude to the Sopranos you could come up with similar plot-holes and other criticisms.

I don't think that's inconsistent behaviour from Walt at all because there's been a move away from his usual meticulous nature at various points throughout the season. Whether that's because of the even more extreme mental pressures he's been under or because he now feels like he's the king, I don't know, but I don't think it's just a one-off moment just to manufacture those dramatic peaks that BB specialises in. Whether this change in behaviour throughout the season is implausible is another thing all together and if you believe so fair enough, but I think it's unfair to say they're just lazily adding plot devices to spice things up. As crappy said at the time when you made the same criticism:

crappycraperson said:
Yeah especially this season he has been too cocky and careless with a lot of things. The theme being that he thinks he is invincible after killing the top dog in drug business. He openly told Skylar where he has been and upto, planted a bug in DEA etc.
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Brwned said:
Breaking Bad is OTT. It has been from the beginning. That's a style choice not a sign of poor writing.
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Exactly. Breaking Bad is, essentially, the Coen Brothers meets Sergio Leone, with fantastic results. Contrarily, I can find ultra-realistic TV to be restrictive in a way in that its scope for elements like humour, tension, cinematography and scoring are limited by the world to which its committed.

So long as the characters behave believably, which they very much do (and have to essentially as this show is the arc of two characters, Walt and Jesse), stylistic choices are at the behest of the showrunner.
 
Brwned said:
Not aimed at you at all, it's just a well-established trend on here to trash every key female character. Even if they're great characters who add plenty to the show.
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Skyler is used a barrier that Walt has to get around- she is fairly effective in that role because she is a controlling, confrontational person who tracks Walt's suspicious behaviour, she is a dislikeable character.

We see him work multiple jobs and get humiliated at them, we see him when he starts suffering with illness and finds out he has cancer, and decides to risk his life and reputation and do horrible things that were against his nature to try and leave some money for his family's sake, only to be harassed, talked down to and pressured by Skyler.

I haven't seen The Sopranos yet, I got the box set for Christmas and am waiting until I'm in the mood to watch them. From what I've seen of Camilla she appears to be disapproving and moralistic.. but we shall see.

I remember you saying that you haven't seen Boardwalk Empire so I won't rant about how great I thought Margaret Schroeder was in the first season.. and then she became another one of these characters.

Dexter
Rita and the children also have the 'obstacle' role in the first few seasons of Dexter. Her story seemed to serve as a way to create problems for Dexter to solve and provide dilemma fodder- Again I have sympathy with her as a character, she starts out meek and with serious issues and overcomes them so I liked her as a character and the writers did well in the development department, but she fell into the trap of being there to get in the way of the protagonist doing what the show is about.
I think it goes without saying why the main female characters of The Walking Dead are all just terrible. Embarrassingly bad.

The Wire, was slightly different since the main character wasn't the be all and end all of the show and his ex-wife isn't a key character but I'll discuss it anyway.
The Wire with McNulty and his ex-wife was interesting, at first all you really see is that he's motivated to provide and care for his family and she's using custody of his children as a weapon and generally being a terrible person- but then as the series progresses it shows you just how screwed up McNulty is as a character with his drinking and self destruction, and that she isn't a bad person- and the best thing for the show was that she was mostly independent from him. I thought they did their relationship very well- but I suppose it's easier given that she wasn't really in the show very often and her progression as a character is implied (and reactive to McNulty) rather than shown.
 
I dont really see what eric le roi means when he says that Breaking Bad has "countless" uses of deus ex machina, unless he doesnt know what that is or has such a loose definition of what it means that any clever solution to a problem becomes one.

Like "ohh Walt is trapped in the RV with the drug dealers, hes surely fecked now!. What! He used some chemicals to get out alive?!? Thats so unrealistic, its not like hes a chemistry expert or anything!! deus ex machina omgomg im such a film buff for using that term!!"

Deus ex machina would be if the episode ended with him trapped, everything looking bleak. Then next episode starts with the police coming, sirens howling and the dealers run away leaving Walt alone.

Id like to see some examples of so called deus ex machina in Breaking Bad.
 
Drainy said:
Skyler is used a barrier that Walt has to get around- she is fairly effective in that role because she is a controlling, confrontational person who tracks Walt's suspicious behaviour, she is a dislikeable character.
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I'm not sure I agree at all that her role is limited to this but let's say you're right. Does that make her a bad character?

I watched the first season and a half of Boardwalk I think, I quite liked Margaret. Didn't understand all the criticism again.
 
Eugh, no, Margaret is a terribly written character. You go from pitying her in the first season to really disliking her by the end of season 2. She's the opposite of the likes of Skylar and whomever, cause (BWE spoiler ahead, kinda)

Nucky basically rescues her from the abyss, and once she gains her new riches and servants that she would never have had were it not for him, she starts acting like a snob, constantly giving out, asking for things and making his life more difficult.
 
Brwned said:
I'm not sure I agree at all that her role is limited to this but let's say you're right. Does that make her a bad character?

I watched the first season and a half of Boardwalk I think, I quite liked Margaret. Didn't understand all the criticism again.
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I'd say it makes her dislikeable- not a terrible character, she is well defined and makes enough sense to be considered good- just dislikeable. My criticism is more about the fact that wives of protagonists tend to have similar features, and that is what is dislikeable- not the fact she is a woman but the fact she is too in the way and morally superior.

Of course, she does have a bit of her own thing going on when she starts working again, I'd say that was done alright- it did a good job of knocking her down off her moral pedestal with the fuddling of the accounts and sets her down the track to aiding Walt's money laundering.

On Margaret Schroeder it will be interesting to see if you feel the same way after 2 seasons. I really liked her in season 1.
 
Brosstan said:
I dont really see what eric le roi means when he says that Breaking Bad has "countless" uses of deus ex machina, unless he doesnt know what that is or has such a loose definition of what it means that any clever solution to a problem becomes one.

Like "ohh Walt is trapped in the RV with the drug dealers, hes surely fecked now!. What! He used some chemicals to get out alive?!? Thats so unrealistic, its not like hes a chemistry expert or anything!! deus ex machina omgomg im such a film buff for using that term!!"

Deus ex machina would be if the episode ended with him trapped, everything looking bleak. Then next episode starts with the police coming, sirens howling and the dealers run away leaving Walt alone.

Id like to see some examples of so called deus ex machina in Breaking Bad.
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Fring's laptop somehow being conveniently on that side of the room and smashed with the use of the magnet. It only fell on the floor. Are you saying the police would not employ computers experts to somehow get the components out and get it working? I found that the most unrealistic part of the entire show. They were doomed there, but got away.
 
Sixpence said:
Fring's laptop somehow being conveniently on that side of the room and smashed with the use of the magnet. It only fell on the floor. Are you saying the police would not employ computers experts to somehow get the components out and get it working? I found that the most unrealistic part of the entire show. They were doomed there, but got away.
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Magnets destroy computers' memory.
 
Semena said:
Eugh, no, Margaret is a terribly written character. You go from pitying her in the first season to really disliking her by the end of season 2. She's the opposite of the likes of Skylar and whomever, cause (BWE spoiler ahead, kinda)

Nucky basically rescues her from the abyss, and once she gains her new riches and servants that she would never have had were it not for him, she starts acting like a snob, constantly giving out, asking for things and making his life more difficult.
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Oh yeah (BWE discussion)

The way she treats Nucky as if he's an asshole for what he does, but still accepts everything he gives her is disgusting.

He's a slippery guy, but my sense is that he really does care about her and the children in season 2 and yet when she's asked if she loves him she basically says no but "he provides for me and my children, and he isn't cruel to me... " urghh

Then what she does at the end of season 2...feck me that was terrible
 
Silva said:
The laptop didn't stop working because falling on the floor broke it, it stopped working become the magnet wiped the data clear. Were you even paying attention?
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I'm talking about the reason why it isn't tried. They don't try it. They reason they give for it as they are going through the damage is "damaged, broken screen". At no point do they say it's for any other reason. I remember at the time the episode was shown and there was a discussion as to whether it would do it, and most tech nerds were sceptical given the distance between magnet and object.
 
VeevaVee said:
I agree, its not simply popcorn tv, and the writing is unbelievable. What I've been trying to get at is the 'feel' of it makes it easy watching, for me.
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Yeah agree with that there. More so than the other programs in its league, definitely.

Brwned said:
Not aimed at you at all, it's just a well-established trend on here to trash every key female character. Even if they're great characters who add plenty to the show.

I agree with your general point that there is a lot of lazy writing when it comes to the main wife but I don't remotely agree that it applies to Skyler, Carmela Soprano or many of the other names often mentioned here. They're great characters. I agree with Mike:
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Yeah, can't understand for the life of me why Carmela Soprano in particular would get any stick. Seen it on here recently and it's bizarre! She is a cracking actress and a fantastic character.
 
Sixpence said:
I'm talking about the reason why it isn't tried. They don't try it. They reason they give for it as they are going through the damage is "damaged, broken screen". At no point do they say it's for any other reason. I remember at the time the episode was shown and there was a discussion as to whether it would do it, and most tech nerds were sceptical given the distance between magnet and object.
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Thats just the guards of the evidence room going through the effects on every single item, not the tech experts checking the hard drives... Hes just stating that the screen is broken so they can note down the changes through the item.

What do you mean, "isnt tried?" That they dont try to turn it on? It would serve no purpose, they already showed that the magnet would destroy a computer at that distance earlier in the show.

Whether it would work IRL is something for mythbusters to check out, and even if it doesnt work, its not a deus ex machina. Do people even know what that term means? The end of the War of the Worlds is a deus ex machina. Coming up with a clever solution that might not be scientifically correct is not.
 
The only thing I can think that comes close to deus ex machina is when Hank came along and killed Tuco. Even that is marginal because there's a fairly decent reason for Hank being there.
 
Aaron Paul let slip that the rest of the show will be airing from July 14th. That's ages away
 
Brwned said:
eric le roi's favourite past-time on here is reminding people how unrealistic this show is. To me it seems pretty clear that he went into the show hoping it would be another Sopranos/The Wire - in terms of having that same gritty, realistic style as well as having that quality writing - and just because it doesn't try to emulate those shows but instead has its own way of doing things then it gets criticised. If you buy into the premise of the show from the beginning - school-teacher has life-changing moment, abandons all of his principles (except caring for his family) and becomes a major drug dealer - then the behaviour is entirely consistent. Some of the other criticisms are ridiculous. It's not a top drama simply because it has a soundtrack - i.e. everything has to subscribe to the same format (e.g. the Wire/Sopranos) or its not good enough. Strange. They might've perfected one style but that doesn't mean that anything that can't recreate that same level of realism is subpar. Making an ultra-realistic TV program is not the pinnacle of writing, it's just one way of doing things. And I love slow-building, realistic, absorbing drama myself.

Breaking Bad is OTT. It has been from the beginning. That's a style choice not a sign of poor writing. As is the soundtrack - it's not there to cover up poor writing or acting, it's not there to manufacture a feeling or atmosphere that couldn't otherwise exist, it's just there to enhance it. Soundtracks done well don't get in the way of good drama. Does the soundtrack in the Godfather somehow take away any of its gritty, realistic feel? I just don't understand that at all. The storylines are well-crafted, the acting's excellent and it's shot perfectly - that's the substance. I'd like to see what other shows eric would call great TV and see how Breaking Bad compares to them.

It seems to me it's gotten to the point where because the Wire was so good at what it did that people now think that's the only way to make a great TV show. It's like when Barcelona became universally regarded as one of the best teams to play the game that loads of people suddenly decided that their way was the way to play football. They perfected their own style but that doesn't mean any other style is below par and all others must try to emulate it. When totaalvoetball was pioneered the rest of the world didn't try to play in the same way. They tried to emulate aspects of it, sure, but there was a unique set of circumstances that allowed them to create something special. The same I'm sure is true of the Wire. And you might love Ajax's unique style to the extent were it simply can't be surpassed but that doesn't mean Sacchi's Milan or Di Stefano's Madrid can't be considered similarly great despite having their own distinct styles with their own flaws that didn't exist in that Ajax team.
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Super post. Calling BB a soap-opera is the most bizarre criticism I have read so far.
 
This is in Brighton

Season 4 Spoiler
breaking-bad-graffiti1.jpg
 
KingEric7 said:
Yeah agree with that there. More so than the other programs in its league, definitely.



Yeah, can't understand for the life of me why Carmela Soprano in particular would get any stick. Seen it on here recently and it's bizarre! She is a cracking actress and a fantastic character.
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Carmela was the character she was intended to be. A hypocritical cnut. It was well written and well acted. I think you were supposed to dislike her. On the subject of female characters The Sopranos did it quite well. Livia was superb for example.
 
acnumber9 said:
Carmela was the character she was intended to be. A hypocritical cnut. It was well written and well acted. I think you were supposed to dislike her. On the subject of female characters The Sopranos did it quite well. Livia was superb for example.
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Yeah you're right there. Livia was an amazing character and her character was a fantastic portrayal of mental illness. Couldn't help but sympathise with Carmela throughout the show, though - didn't dislike her for the most part.

Adriana La Cerva was quality too, obviously...

Her death...shit. Well that must just about be one of the most devastating scenes in any TV show ever surely.
 
Just caught up there, only started watching back in September. Great show! Only shows like this I've really watched are Lost and Heroes, so I dont really have much to compare it to, but this is amazing. Shit thing is now I actually have to wait for the second half of series 5. Do we know how many series left there are?
 
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