Zen86
Full Member
If we beat Real (which was the likely scenario until the sending off), then there's no reason why we couldn't beat Bayern.Bollocks. Bayern would have had us for breakfast.
If we beat Real (which was the likely scenario until the sending off), then there's no reason why we couldn't beat Bayern.Bollocks. Bayern would have had us for breakfast.
Like they did the team 21 points behind us in the league?Bollocks. Bayern would have had us for breakfast.
Bayern are a much better team this year than last year, that's plainly obvious.Like they did the team 21 points behind us in the league?
What makes you think Real is on the same level as Bayern this year? They couldn't beat them last year and Bayern is a lot stronger than last year while Real isn't.If we beat Real (which was the likely scenario until the sending off), then there's no reason why we couldn't beat Bayern.
Bayern beat real last year.If we beat Real (which was the likely scenario until the sending off), then there's no reason why we couldn't beat Bayern.
If we beat Real (which was the likely scenario until the sending off), then there's no reason why we couldn't beat Bayern.
Yes. Unless they get pumped by Ronaldo in the final, then it'll be Real who are definitely much better than us.Are Bayern now the new club that Red Cafe posters to anxiously pedestalize as some kind of utopian benchmark for footballing excellence to which we must aspire to emulate?
Of course not we can still win the PL with hoof balls and zombie passing and while we are talking about genitals, I already mentioned that in another thread, Carragher has 4 balls.Are Bayern now the new club that Red Cafe posters to anxiously pedestalize as some kind of utopian benchmark for footballing excellence to which we must aspire to emulate?
I even bet that Schweinsteiger has a much bigger penis than Carrick
Spot on.The point is, we can't expect to winning the CL by 'getting by'. The level at the top is extremely high and demanding. Bayern felt they needed something different in midfield last summer, so they went and signed Javi Martinez for 40m euro. Problem solved. Us, aside from Cleverley and Carrick, it's all sort of compromises like Giggs and Jones. It won't be enough in Europe.
Just like Fergie pushed the boat in 1998 by getting Yorke, Stam and Blomqvist, and then with the four signings of 2007 (though long term they didn't work out as well, first season they all did a good job), it's what we need to do now if we want to return to the top in Europe.
Bayern are probably better yes, but we were also better than Real over the two fixtures 11 vs 11.What makes you think Real is on the same level as Bayern this year? They couldn't beat them last year and Bayern is a lot stronger than last year while Real isn't.
And Chelsea beat Bayern, football isn't as straightforward as that.Bayern beat real last year.
Problem?
Was actually thinking about Arsenal. Compare and contrast the results/balance of play on their trip to OT with their trip to Munich.Bayern are a much better team this year than last year, that's plainly obvious.
They wouldn't "have us for breakfast" though.
Yes of course.Yes. Unless they get pumped by Ronaldo in the final, then it'll be Real who are definitely much better than us.
Arsenal have a tendency to do that when they've nothing to loose anymore though, it's when they're in a good position that they capitulate. Bayern also destroyed Barca and Juventus at home and they're both way better than Arsenal.Was actually thinking about Arsenal. Compare and contrast the results/balance of play on their trip to OT with their trip to Munich.
Obviously, can't read too much into one game but Arsenal came quite close to knocking Bayern out and we're a far better side than Arsenal.
A hoof and a zombie pass, all in one:Better get back to ball hoofing and zombie passing, so much more fun to watch.
I blame their Arsenal loss on complacency and overconfidence for the most part. I think they all assumed it was already over and nobody really showed up for the game. The way they dismantled Juve (most likely a better team than Arsenal) in the next round in both games showed to me they learned their lesson.Arsenal have a tendency to do that when they've nothing to loose anymore though, it's when they're in a good position that they capitulate. Bayern also destroyed Barca and Juventus at home and they're both way better than Arsenal.
Hmmm.. Barca are in a really poor spell of form right now and Celtic also beat Juve at home.Arsenal have a tendency to do that when they've nothing to loose anymore though, it's when they're in a good position that they capitulate. Bayern also destroyed Barca and Juventus at home and they're both way better than Arsenal.
Don't disagree with you there.If I was a betting man, I would make Bayern favourites if we played them over two legs. I think we'd have a very good chance of upsetting the odds, though.
Like as not, yes. People have a tendency to go hysterical. I remember United fans demanding that we hire Bielsa after the largely meaningless encounters with Bilbao last season.Are Bayern now the new club that Red Cafe posters will anxiously pedestalize as some kind of utopian benchmark for footballing excellence to which we must aspire to emulate?
I even bet that Schweinsteiger has a much bigger penis than Carrick
Exactly like that. They did eat them for breakfast but then they got full.Like they did the team 21 points behind us in the league?
Indeed, Bayern are what United try to be. The style of play is quite similar to the "traditional" Manchester United way except that right now Bayern have much better wide players than us - and look at how Barcelona were totally powerless against Robben or against the forward forays of Alaba - and are a lot stronger in CM. We have more raw firepower (Rooney, Van Persie, Hernández) but overall their team is stronger and therefore plays better football. The gulf in individual quality isn't huge at all but their team is more balanced and doesn't have obvious weaknesses.Like as not, yes. People have a tendency to go hysterical. I remember United fans demanding that we hire Bielsa after the largely meaningless encounters with Bilbao last season.
At least Bayern would be a more realistic benchmark. The fact is that they disposed of Barca playing a kind of football which is much closer to what we've been up to than any kind of tiki-taka. They proved that you can positively outclass an opponent that completely dominates you in terms of possession: Now, there's encouragement - for us - in that fact.
At the end of the day, though, what any team needs on the night is a bit of flow - or a bit of luck, if you want. We weren't miles off anyone this season - and we were downright unlucky against Real. If we had gone through the momentum could very well have carried us on all the way: You can't look at the fairly lackluster side that lost against City and Chelsea - and compare that to the sharp-as-feck Bayern machine that humiliated Barca last night. It's not nearly as simple as that.
Gods, the arguments I had over the summer about those fecking matches. There were people who honestly believed Bilbao were better than us after a match in which we rested half the first team.Like as not, yes. People have a tendency to go hysterical. I remember United fans demanding that we hire Bielsa after the largely meaningless encounters with Bilbao last season.
I think we've had this debate before but for me, in the past it's been more so due to our attack and defense than midfield. The midfield was just sort of ... there, doing it's job without ever really being a dominant force for us, like the other areas.Despite our apparently woeful lack of options in central midfield we've consistently finished ahead of teams that, on paper, have vastly superior central midfielders to us. Going back several years now.
This tells me one of two things. Our midfield options are better than people think. Having a stronger central midfield than the opposition isn't quite as important as people think.
Most likely, a mixture of the two.
And they look so much more cohesive. At times this season we have looked like a set of very talented individuals playing together for the first time. There's been a real lack of a consistent tactical identity, and in defensive situations the team looks very 'uncoached'.Indeed, Bayern are what United try to be. The style of play is quite similar to the "traditional" Manchester United way except that right now Bayern have much better wide players than us - and look at how Barcelona were totally powerless against Robben or against the forward forays of Alaba - and are a lot stronger in CM. We have more raw firepower (Rooney, Van Persie, Hernández) but overall their team is stronger and therefore plays better football. The gulf in individual quality isn't huge at all but their team is more balanced and doesn't have obvious weaknesses.
I'm holding out for that messiah myself, as it happens. Thought we needed another body in midfield last summer and even more convinced we do now.It's just a religion for some, Pogue. It's not even about the actual quality of the midfield, it's about that one signing, the midfield messiah.
I think we need a bit of both. As I said earlier, Cabaye would be great.We'd definitely be fecked without him, but the priority shouldn't be finding a partner for Carrick (we have a bunch of players who do that well) but finding someone to provide cover for him should he ever actually get injured. I've been banging that drum for a good three years now, but what can you do.
Well in the league, a midfield isn't that important. Strikers and defenders win you the league, and having a great midfield just helps that. It doesn't hinder the league campaign as much as some on here would lead you to believe. Considering ~70% of our league games are against poor to average teams, we don't need a top midfield to beat them.Despite our apparently woeful lack of options in central midfield we've consistently finished ahead of teams that, on paper, have vastly superior central midfielders to us. Going back several years now. in fact. in terms of player by player comparisons on this website I would say the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and (more recently) City have consistently been rated ahead of us in central midfield going back 5 or 6 years. If not longer.
This tells me one of two things. Our midfield options are better than people think. Having a stronger central midfield than the opposition isn't quite as important as people think.
Most likely, a mixture of the two.
Really? I don't see him as being any better than Cleverley could easily be in the near-future, and he's not really suited to provide cover for Carrick. Of the names I've seen banded about I'd take Matic as the cover/long-term replacement option, or Strootman as a straight into the first team signing.I think we need a bit of both. As I said earlier, Cabaye would be great.
Absolutely. Fergie would agree with this too - and he seems to know a thing or two about this football lark.Despite our apparently woeful lack of options in central midfield we've consistently finished ahead of teams that, on paper, have vastly superior central midfielders to us. Going back several years now. in fact. in terms of player by player comparisons on this website I would say the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and (more recently) City have consistently been rated ahead of us in central midfield going back 5 or 6 years. If not longer.
This tells me one of two things. Our midfield options are better than people think. Having a stronger central midfield than the opposition isn't quite as important as people think.
Most likely, a mixture of the two.
Yep, that's very important, but cover for Carrick will still leave our midfield weaker than the other top teams in Europe, which has to be the benchmark. It's not about buying a superstar, IMO, more about bringing in players who can improve the quality while also contributing on a regular basis (which we currently have a problem with). That's why, if we were getting rid of Anderson, for example, I wouldn't mind us trying to bring in someone like Song. He's not top, top class, but he's better than what we have in many cases. Even small-ish improvements like that would make a difference.We'd definitely be fecked without him, but the priority shouldn't be finding a partner for Carrick (we have a bunch of players who do that well) but finding someone to provide cover for him should he ever actually get injured. I've been banging that drum for a good three years now, but what can you do.
Ideally we need someone who can do both tbh if we want one player. Otherwise we can buy a younger player who can cover for Carrick.We'd definitely be fecked without him, but the priority shouldn't be finding a partner for Carrick (we have a bunch of players who do that well) but finding someone to provide cover for him should he ever actually get injured. I've been banging that drum for a good three years now, but what can you do.
Out.Follow the Bayern blueprint and well buy the best of British in the league.....Wilshere and Bale. That'll tide them over nicely.
The same could be said of many of Britain's top players in their teens/early 20s - the likes of Giggs, Gerrard, Owen and (to an extent) Rooney. We'd still have signed every one of them if given the chance. No reason to assume Wilshere won't grow out of it as it's not reccurring muscle injuries or the like.The "Wilshere bandwagon" is a bit weird, considering he looks incapable of completing a season without picking up a serious injury.