It's a loaded question and anyone who has done any reading on this should understand the history and the connotations of it.
Backlash after WC rape jokes flood Twitter
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Only some pretty shitty journals could tell you otherwise. I'm a Medicine student, that's as basic knowledge for us as it is to know that drug abuse affects more men than women. It's a given fact. There's no two ways about it.
As an investigator though, you'd still want to know what the victim was wearing though, in any type of assault, regardless of gender.
It is actually quite worrying that you think "what were you wearing" is a relevant question to anything. How could that possibly help an investigation?
DNA for a start.
No no no no no. That's what a rape kit is for.
Women face real issues in society today. The dilemma with contraceptives and health coverage in the United States underlines the fact. But largely the disadvantages women used to face back in the day have been removed.
Classism is the biggest problem our society needs to tackle, not sexism. Definitely not adjectives.
Classism is the biggest problem our society needs to tackle, not sexism. Definitely not adjectives.
You did.
In Norway, I'd honestly say that women are more priveleged than men...
But I don't complain. I have a good life. I just find it insulting when certain people only focus on one gender and its problems, and completely discard the problems of the other side. It makes me want to "help" those who are forgotten.
The majority of the things you posted, and that I called you on, are wrong perceptions you have that don't make any sense.
I'd be surprised if there isn't more money being poured in most societies to tackle alcoholism, suicide, or drug abuse than rape. At least in any country that has a proper health system. There are probably more posts in the cafe about any of these issues than rape (I won't bother to count them, but it's a guess). These issues have been talked about on society for years, and we keep fighting them with a lot of resources nowadays. What pisses you so much about rape getting some attention after being overlooked for decades in these past centuries of enlightenment in so many other areas?
You being a Norwegian, tell me with all honesty if you don't have the impression that more resources are used in your country to prevent suicide than the ones to cause awareness to rape? Statistically, suicide is as much a problem of men as rape is a problem of women.
Men being beaten up more frequently or robbed more frequently is a consequence of their behavior. There is basic common sense knowledge available to minimize the chances of suffering from it. Women just chose to follow it and men don't. Every time I was robbed or assaulted was in a situation that I can't fathom the average woman getting herself into.
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This. It would be impossible to prove they were targeting her specifically.
Re: the insistence there is no "rape culture". When it comes to date raping and the use of rohypnol and whatnot to knock out girls at parties (frat boy phenomenon, though not excusively) one can certainly speak of a "culture", I don't see how anyone can deny this. It's common enough and similar enough from case to case to warrant that term.
Not really. I'd say we're about as equal a society as you can find on Earth when it comes to gender, though. Women still make less than men, though most - but not all - of that comes from the larger prevalence in part time work for women. With the trends in education, women will likely hold a larger and larger proportion of high paying jobs in the future, since the education system may be slightly favouring girls right now.
Rape culture doesn't necessarily mean the act of raping. It is more about the attitudes towards victims, perpetrators, and the systemic failure of the justice system
The problem is that the MRAs would rather troll feminists and diminish the problems women face than actually do something about the problems that men face. It's not a zero sum game, men's rights can be improved at the same time as women's.
And of course there are loons on both sides of the debate but I'd say the vast majority of MRAs on the internet are misogynists.
Are you blaming men for putting themselves in situations where they get beat up? Are you advocating assault culture?
Hehe. Fair point actually.
Not much I can say to that, the way I put it.Just pointing out that isn't a gender difference, but a behavioral one.
You've got some of a point but it's not totally a like for like situation.
We can tell men not to, I don't know, walk down alleys late at night or something and that would reduce muggings. But most tapes are by someone the victim knows and at a place they willingly go to. So unless we are saying "never be alone with anyone ever" (which we obviously aren't), then raoe isn't something where the victim can change their behavior and drastically reduce their chances of being a victim. Whereas mugging victims CAN drastically reduce their chances by avoiding such situations.
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I agree
Please, just because you avoid dark alleys doesn't mean you won't get mugged. In the right area you are at risk wherever you go. The same applies for rape. You can choose not to get so drunk you can't resist assault, you can choose to not get drugged by showing some awareness, you can choose not to go home with like 5 men you just met "to party". Of course you can still be assaulted in the street or betrayed by some psycho you thought you knew, but obviously you can do something to lower the risk significantly.
For those of you that didn't believe in rape culture or victim blaming, this is a textbook example. Worse is that he doesn't even have his facts right. What percentage of rape victims do you think choose to get drugged? What percentage of people who go home with men are at fault for their rape?
73% of rapes are committed by a non-stranger. 40% take place IN THE VICTIM'S HOME. Another 20% take place in the home of a relative, neighbor or friend.
Let's read that again for effect.
73% of rapes are committed by a non-stranger. 40% take place IN THE VICTIM'S HOME. Another 20% take place in the home of a relative, neighbor or friend.
What is a person supposed to do to lower the risk of that happening? Never let someone in their home? Never be alone with a friend neighbor or relative? You are being incredibly ignorant and the things you say are quite offensive. I urge you to do some actual research on the subject.
And yours is an example of "statistics will tell you anything".
I think that will be hard to quantify. Doesn't mean you can't take simple precautions.
Why is the 73% the only part that matters? Assuming that full 73% is unavoidable (which it ain't) you are still left with up to 27% you can take measures against. I'd say that's a significant number. Do you have similar statistics for muggins? Beatings? How much does the dark alley strategy net you? Or are we here too talking about "never go to a club, never get drunk, stay 15 feet away from every human and carry a loaded gun" hyperbole territory?
And what's you point here anyway? Most rapes are unavoidable (and we're just guessing at that), so you shouldn't take precautions against it? It can't be compared to trying to avoid getting mugged? I'm offensive somehow for suggesting people protect themselves?
*deep breaths*
Statistics tell you things that happened. As opposed to your posts consisting of judgments and a conspicuous lack of actual data.
The point, which I already made once on this very page, is that while adexkola is right to point out the victim blaming in the mugging scenario, it's a different order of magnitude for rapes. The vast majority of rapes cannot be stopped by "simple precautions". Whereas the vast majority of muggings can. I think this is an exceedingly simple and non-controversial point.
The offensive part is how you speak about "simple precautions" preventing other rapes. Of course, your idea of simple precautions are
1) Don't go home with men, because they are liable to rape you
2) Don't get drunk, because you can get raped
3) "Choose" not to get drugged
The first two are offensive in that they imply women aren't able to do the same things that men do with impunity. Because then they will get raped. Why isn't the focus on getting men to stop raping people? Why is it always with the victim blaming?
The third is the worst because it suggests that some rape victims choose to get drugged by their rapists. So I will ask again, what percentage of rape victims choose this?
You're the one assuming 73% of rapes can't be avoided just because they happen between people who know each other. How many of those involved drunkeness to the point of passing out? How many involved too drunk to resist? What was the definition of rape in the questionnaire? Did it include "too drunk to remember?", "wouldn't have done it if I was sober"? All of these could be deemed avoidable. Or are you just assuming all those 73% were "drugged or taken by force, no chance to escape?". How many of the relative percentage involved children? Cause we are certainly not including children in a discussion about "rape prevention advice".
And whatever the real number is in terms of "unavoidability", what makes you think your simple advice for actual muggings would make most of them go away? Or are we again assuming all or most muggings are the result of someone doing something incredible stupid like crawling bambi eyed down a dark alley? I mean, personally most people I know was mugged just because they walked down some random street and stumbled into the wrong guy. What's your simple advice for that? What's the cutoff point for stopping to compare them?
Your idea about my idea is so ridiculously twisted I'm impressed by the audacity to attempt it considering my actual quotes are readable two posts up.
I said a gang of men, not any man.
I said don't get so drunk you pass out or can't take care of yourself, not to not get drunk.
I said watch your drink and don't take shit you don't know what is, not "avoid some super villain sleight of hand trick to slip something in your drink".
It's offensive to suggest men and women can't do the exact same things and expect the same result and amount of risk? It's offensive to point out reality?
Why isn't the focus on getting men to stop raping women? Because that would be fecking pointless. They're rapists, they're not going to see some column in the Guardian and start reflecting on their morality. You seem to suggest that normal chaps are out there committing rapes, and the only reason they're doing it is because they "live in a rape culture" and haven't been "properly educated" or whatever. That somehow we can "reach out and make a difference". Get real buddy. Bad shit is out there, the only sensible thing is to try and avoid some of it. Bad people are part of society, always will be. I'm certainly not going to be ashamed for focusing on some hard facts of life.
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Actually, they are. Rapists are brothers, fathers, friends, neighbours. Not seedy blokes with bad facial hair hanging around alleyways.
Edit: predominantly. There are some creeps hanging around alleyways.
You keep using the word offensive but to be really frank your postings on this have been pretty offensive because of their complete and total ignorance.
Rapists are sick human beings. Psychopaths, narcissists. Certainly not someone I'd call a "normal chap".
Yeah, I know, you're saying "but how can you know who is one?". Some are hard to spot for sure, but it's not like you can't train yourself to recognize these kind of people.
If someone was too drunk to remember, they were in all likelihood too drunk to consent. 84% of victims reported physical force only. 44% of victims are under the age of 18. I can't believe you are carrying on without doing any actual research. It's embarrassing that I have to answer your pointed questions with a simple google time after time.
This paragraph is just so ridiculous that I can't be bothered to respond to it. It's like you are being contrarian for the sake of it.
Again, this is stuff that men don't have to worry about. Women do. Because men rape women in these situations. But instead of focusing on teaching men not to rape, we teach women that they can't do things their male peers can do.
This is just totally embarrassing. You have not done any reading about the subject at all. People aren't just born rapists. Society shapes people.
Most schools don't have sexual assault training programs.
Most victims don't report sexual assault.
Most victims feel that society and the legal system is unsympathetic.
Most victims hesitate reporting sexual assault because they don't trust the police to handle it appropriately.
There is an old study about the attitudes of 11-14 years olds. 51% of boys said it was acceptable to rape a girl if the boy had spent large amounts of money on her. 87% of boys said that it was acceptable for a man to rape his wife.
Anonymous survey of male college students. One third said that they would rape someone if they thought they could get away with it.
Look at the defenses in the Steubenville case.
Look at how Hollywood excuses the rape of a child committed by Roman Polanski.
Look at Audrie Pott or Rehtaeh Parsons.
Look at Brendan Gibbons escaping for years and Taylor Lewan (now in the NFL) threatening his roommates rape victim that if she told anyone he would rape her again.
Look at Jameis Winston winning the Heisman trophy.
Look at Savannah Dietrich or Lizzy Seeburg.
Look at the rape of an 11 year old Texas girl by 14 men.
In 2010, the US Department of Defense estimated almost 20,000 sexual assaults. There were 244 convictions.
Look at the comments of Todd Akin, Richard Mourdock, Rick Santorum, Bryan Fischer, Roger Rivard, Sharon Angle, Ron Paul, Bill O'Reilly, or Clayton Williams.
Tell me that's not a rape culture. Tell me that society doesn't influence. Tell me that it is "fecking pointless"
This is deeply offensive basless tripe. At odds with nigh on everyone who has ever worked in a field involving rape. The kind of senseless garbage that puts victims off talking about what happened to them, because they're scared that the person they tell will have opinions like yours.
Ugh.
What exactly I've written is in any way contradicted by your statistics? You choosing to twist "significant amount" into "vast majority" doesn't suddenly transform that into my opinion.
First we need to be clear on the definition of rape. Rape is forcing somebody to sexual acts when you know, or should have reasonable suspicion to know that the person is not or is not capable of consenting. That's my understanding of the word. People committing those kind of acts are worthless human beings deserving life behind bars.
If two people get so drunk they can't remember they had sex, well that may or may not have been rape, but it's going to be mighty hard to prove one way or the other, and I don't think you deserve years in jail for having sex with a pissed girl where she may or may not have wanted it with no way to prove it. Saying sex with a girl who has a blackout the next day = rape is watering down the word to the extreme and it certainly doesn't make the debate credible to lump them together. You may have been talking about these kind of incidents, I'm not.
You're the one claiming muggings and rapes can't be compared because of some difference in avoidability. Back it up.
I'm of the opinion rapists can't be taught to do anything. And research backs me up: psychopaths are born, not made, and they can't change. Where is this world where ordinary men go around thinking rape is ok? I've not seen it.
51% of boys said it's ok to rape a girl? 87% of boys said raping wife was ok? An old study? And you believe these numbers? I have literally never met a single man in my life who holds anything even close to these views. I can't take it seriously.
I tell you, it's not a rape culture. Not where I've lived, not where I've traveled. And I struggle hard to see where (western) society influences anyone to think rape is acceptable. I think most of the people on that list are deranged beings who would have gone on to do heinous stuff whatever society they lived in. You don't rape girls with 14 other men if "society changed you", you do it because you are a psycho without empathy.
And I never said it was pointless to take measures to reduce rape in society. I said telling men "you shouldn't rape" is not going to change anything. Those who are not rapists will continue to not be rapists, and those who are don't give a shit what we think or tell them. Rapist and scum of their like are not "potential good citizens", they are mental defects or damaged beyond repair by the environment. You could probaby do something in that end, but not once the damage is done.
facepalm.gif
What about the term "Facebook rape"
Frape is friendlier a term
yeah, bloody hell, those feminists eh, not liking a horrific act against women to be taken as some light term by idiotic teenagers describing trivialityIts totally okay to say ''murder'' in football terms.. but no, never rape #feminism
So now twitter is victimising women thanks to football...