Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense

[gasmanc]

Are you WUMMING here? Im certain this is not a prevailing view amongst United fans? All this nonsense was put to bed last season.

The logic that Welbeck would be as good if given games is such an absurd convenience as it's currently totally unprovable. It's the type of argument that could be shoe-horned into any comparison debate - all hypothetical and guesswork.

A far more compelling way to look at this is to simply look at the data. Sturridge and Welbeck have played a very similar amount of games but Sturridge has double the goals.

As for the World Cup stuff, it was England, it went badly, nobody came up smelling of roses. To resort to warm ups as evidence is starting to look a bit clutching.

If you were to do a poll amongst United fans of who you'd have up front of the two, there'd be a clear winner.

You could have made all very similar arguments for Fernado Torres not so many years ago, you probably did.
Both Wellbeck and Sturridge have seen completely disproportionate game time over the last year or so yet prior to that had a very similar curve, you would even say Wellbeck was ahead 2-3 years ago. They will both end up relatively good strikers as far as I can see, nothing more nothing less.
Will be interesting to see what happens for Sturridge now he's partnering Lambert though and going back to the World Cup, he was surrounded by some very familiar faces throughout that competition and failed to deliver, a sign of things to come maybe.

 

[Dumbstar]

Exciting prospect but his inclusion surely had more to do with a lack of depth in the Welsh ranks.

Not that I remember at the time. He was picked to stop him playing for England in the future. They tied him in as it were.

 

[Barney]

You could have made all very similar arguments for Fernado Torres not so many years ago, you probably did.
Both Wellbeck and Sturridge have seen completely disproportionate game time over the last year or so yet prior to that had a very similar curve, you would even say Wellbeck was ahead 2-3 years ago. They will both end up relatively good strikers as far as I can see, nothing more nothing less.
Will be interesting to see what happens for Sturridge now he's partnering Lambert though and going back to the World Cup, he was surrounded by some very familiar faces throughout that competition and failed to deliver, a sign of things to come maybe.

No, a sign of the system and the manager. Other good players also disappointed. Sturridge is on another planet compared to Welbeck at the moment. I'd be surprised if Sturridge and Lambert partnered each other often.

 

[PickledRed]

You could have made all very similar arguments for Fernado Torres not so many years ago, you probably did.
Both Wellbeck and Sturridge have seen completely disproportionate game time over the last year or so yet prior to that had a very similar curve, you would even say Wellbeck was ahead 2-3 years ago. They will both end up relatively good strikers as far as I can see, nothing more nothing less.
Will be interesting to see what happens for Sturridge now he's partnering Lambert though and going back to the World Cup, he was surrounded by some very familiar faces throughout that competition and failed to deliver, a sign of things to come maybe.

You're being ridiculous.

As for Torres, if Welbeck gets anywhere near the levels Torres has touched I will be amazed.

It's one thing supporting your players but this is cringing.

 

[gasmanc]

You're being ridiculous.

As for Torres, if Welbeck gets anywhere near the levels Torres has touched I will be amazed.

It's one thing supporting your players but this is cringing.

What's ridiculous about it ? Or are you claiming Sturridge is now nailed on World class, which would be ridiculous.
To put the record straight here I haven't at any point claimed that Wellbeck is now ahead of Sturridge but a lot can happen in football in a couple of years as you know, just look at Adam Lallana, he was unheard of at age 24 and now he's been to a World Cup (briefly) and is heading into the Champions league.

Here we now have @BarneyLFC claiming it's the system to blame for poor performances and Brendan's system is the key to unlock Sturridge power.
Wasn't it just last season that United needed a complete player overhaul ?
What of all those years of corruption you suffered under Ferguson and those poor squads he had winning title after title, you want it any which way that suits your agenda at the time.

 

[marukomu]

Sturridge is good but you can't tell me he'll ever be in the class of Fowler, Rush and Owen.

 

[kouroux]

I think the only player they've signed that I'm 'jealous' of is Markovic.

The jealousy I mentioned isn't about who they signed but rather the fact they've identified their needs and signed the players they thought would fulfill those needs quickly. We're too fecking slow, I'll never understand what's there to assess about many poor players we have.

 

[Barney]

Sturridge is good but you can't tell me he'll ever be in the class of Fowler, Rush and Owen.

He can be better than Owen.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The jealousy I mentioned isn't about who they signed but rather the fact they've identified their needs and signed the players they thought would fulfill those needs quickly. We're too fecking slow, I'll never understand what's there to assess about many poor players we have.

I agree with that. I don't know how good these players but the speed and efficiency with which they're getting deals wrapped up is impressive even though they're not top footballers. Also, I think improving their squad was extremely important for them. One genuinely class attacker and they're shaping up well (given the players they've signed don't flop of course).

 

[PickledRed]

Sturridge is good but you can't tell me he'll ever be in the class of Fowler, Rush and Owen.

He's scored more in his first 50 games than anyone in the club's history. But to some he's still unproven.

 

[PickledRed]

What's ridiculous about it ? Or are you claiming Sturridge is now nailed on World class, which would be ridiculous.
To put the record straight here I haven't at any point claimed that Wellbeck is now ahead of Sturridge but a lot can happen in football in a couple of years as you know, just look at Adam Lallana, he was unheard of at age 24 and now he's been to a World Cup (briefly) and is heading into the Champions league.

Here we now have @BarneyLFC claiming it's the system to blame for poor performances and Brendan's system is the key to unlock Sturridge power.
Wasn't it just last season that United needed a complete player overhaul ?
What of all those years of corruption you suffered under Ferguson and those poor squads he had winning title after title, you want it any which way that suits your agenda at the time.

Not sure why this has to descend into jibes and accusations. All a bit glib.

Sturridge is comfortably better in my mind. I'm pretty certain that given his outstanding goal tally over 18 months the overwhelming majority of football fans would agree - including most United fans.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Why are Liverpool called our rivals for next year? I can only assume that refers to historical derby rivalry rather than competing with us, which they won't.

 

[johnny boy]

Why are Liverpool called our rivals for next year? I can only assume that refers to historical derby rivalry rather than competing with us, which they won't.

I was confused by that too as you weren't our rivals last season and may not be this one either.

 

[saivet]

Why are Liverpool called our rivals for next year? I can only assume that refers to historical derby rivalry rather than competing with us, which they won't.

Are you serious?

 

[Rafateria]

Why are Liverpool called our rivals for next year? I can only assume that refers to historical derby rivalry rather than competing with us, which they won't.

I thought this thread held no interest for you ? Or was that just an excuse because you had no response ? And yet here you are again. Are you really so arrogant as to think that (so far) a change of manager and two new players is going to cause a complete reversal in our teams respective fortunes ? Watch that dog - he may come back to bite you big time !

 

[Wumminator]

Assuming the players who are fit now are fit for the first game of the season (aka no-one else gets injured)

What will your team be?

 

[Richard Cranium]

Liverpool have not been our rivals since 2008.

 

[Wumminator]

---------------Migolet--------------
Moreno -- Sakho-- Lovren -- Johnson
-----Henderson -- Gerrard---------
------------Coutinho--------------
Markovic ---- Sturridge ---- Sterling

Where are all these players off the bench who can win you the game?

Lambert? Allen? Can?

 

[johnny boy]

Liverpool have not been our rivals since 2008.

Fine, ok, whatever - your rivals last year were the likes of Southampton.

 

[johnny boy]

---------------Migolet--------------
Moreno -- Sakho-- Lovren -- Johnson
-----Henderson -- Gerrard---------
------------Coutinho--------------
Markovic ---- Sturridge ---- Sterling

Where are all these players off the bench who can win you the game?

Lambert? Allen? Can?

Plus Ibe, maybe Suso, we need at least another attacking player, probably 2 if Borini goes.

As well as Lallana of course who will probably start when he is back fit, with Markovic dropping to the bench.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Liverpool fans have become so bullish after one decent season. It's actually hilarious. They think they can put other teams down for having one bad season when they've had 5.

 

[Wumminator]

Plus Ibe, maybe Suso, we need at least another attacking player, probably 2 if Borini goes.

As well as Lallana of course.

Yeah but he's injured for the first three weeks. Is having Ibe and Suso on your bench much better than Aspas?

 

[Rafateria]

I was confused by that too as you weren't our rivals last season and may not be this one either.

 

[Wumminator]

Liverpool fans have become so bullish after one decent season. It's actually hilarious. They think they can put other teams down for having one bad season when they've had 5.

Just interested, how would you feel if you put yourself in their shoes? Why would you not be bullish?

 

[Rafateria]

---------------Migolet--------------
Moreno -- Sakho-- Lovren -- Johnson
-----Henderson -- Gerrard---------
------------Coutinho--------------
Markovic ---- Sturridge ---- Sterling

Where are all these players off the bench who can win you the game?

Lambert? Allen? Can?

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/our-rivals-squad-next-year-liverpool.390932/page-60#post-16170026

 

[johnny boy]

Liverpool fans have become so bullish after one decent season. It's actually hilarious. They think they can put other teams down for having one bad season when they've had 5.

Not at all, it's clear we have to be consistent and challenge over the long term, I don't know where we will finish next season. United will be stronger.
But your sarcastic "bullish" type comments earlier are exactly what you are accusing us of. Go figure.

You weren't our rivals last season, is that so hard to understand?

 

[Richard Cranium]

Just interested, how would you feel if you put yourself in their shoes? Why would you not be bullish?

I thought they would have learnt to not count their chickens, given the last three games of the season. They really had the wind behind them last season with many factors. This year it'll be the opposite. Everyone around them has strengthened, they've weakened. More games to play with. They'll finish outside the top four.

 

[johnny boy]

Yeah but he's injured for the first three weeks. Is having Ibe and Suso on your bench much better than Aspas?

Ibe offers genuine pace and is very direct, I think whilst a bit raw he is an upgrade on Aspas and Moses.
Suso I suppose less so, hard to see where he fits in with the other attacking midfield players we have, but I can see him being useful in some games from the bench.

We need at least another striker with Remy not coming and possibly Borini leaving.

 

[B20]

Sturridge is good but you can't tell me he'll ever be in the class of Fowler, Rush and Owen.

He could well score as many goals or more.

Fowler was the most talented of the lot, yet Rush made the most of his talent.

 

[B20]

Why are Liverpool called our rivals for next year? I can only assume that refers to historical derby rivalry rather than competing with us, which they won't.

7th place bravado at its finest.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Pool are looking to sign the wrong Sevilla player. They should be signing bacca instead.

 

[Kostur]

7th place bravado at its finest.

Don't be so harsh on yourself B, you'll finish higher than 7th, probably 5th or maybe even 4th if you knock Arsenall off their fecking perch

 

[Shark]

Liverpool fans have become so bullish after one decent season. It's actually hilarious. They think they can put other teams down for having one bad season when they've had 5.

They also compare us with themselves constantly. It's always been a feature of them really. The way they see it, we're going to go through the same 20+ year barren spell as them, despite all of the signs clearly being there that United have quickly come to their senses to make sure that won't happen and we remain a major force. The club fecked up badly after SAF left, but what's happened since Moyes was thankfully sacked is not registering with some of them at all.

 

[Shark]

Just interested, how would you feel if you put yourself in their shoes? Why would you not be bullish?

The last time we finished 2nd in the league most of us were devastated. Certainly not bullish.

Goes to show how far Liverpool actually fell.

 

[GlastonSpur]

7th place bravado at its finest.

Yep, the 20 point gap of last season is all breezily explained away by pointing to Moyes and Suarez. And now - regardless of having lost a huge amount of experience and cover in their back four - United are going to storm back courtesy of LvG, a CM from Bilbao who may or may not adapt quickly and well to the Prem, and a 19 year-old, apparently attacking wingback with no goals and 1 assist to his name from 60 appearances for S'hampton.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Pool are looking to sign the wrong Sevilla player. They should be signing bacca instead.

Why? We need a left back badly.

I really like Bacca but he falls into the same category as a lot of other very good strikers - great player but not what we need in terms of versatility and link up with Sturridge. We need someone who can either play deeper and out wide, Bacca and Sturridge wouldn't be a very good partnership and we'd be stuck playing 2 up top if we got him.

 

[redman5]

They also compare us with themselves constantly. It's always been a feature of them really. The way they see it, we're going to go through the same 20+ year barren spell as them, despite all of the signs clearly being there that United have quickly come to their senses to make sure that won't happen and we remain a major force. The club fecked up badly after SAF left, but what's happened since Moyes was thankfully sacked is not registering with some of them at all.

Who's actually said that ? There is a strong possibility though (as shown by our performances over the past 18 months of Brendan Rodgers 2 year reign at Anfield) that the gap between the clubs won't be as significant as it has been for most of those 20 years. United will no doubt improve under LVG, but will they improve enough to be the dominant force they once were with Fergie at the helm ? The PL is probably the most competitive it's ever been, so it's difficult to see any one club ruling the roost in the way United did for the past 2 decades. It's hard to see past City & Chelsea when it comes to winning league titles for the foreseeable future. But football is a funny old game. Always was, & always will be.

 

[johnny boy]

Yep, the 20 point gap of last season is all breezily explained away by pointing to Moyes and Suarez. And now - regardless of having lost a huge amount of experience and cover in their back four - United are going to storm back courtesy of LvG, a CM from Bilbao who may or may not adapt quickly and well to the Prem, and a 19 year-old, apparently attacking wingback with no goals and 1 assist to his name from 60 appearances for S'hampton.

Indeed, it's like last season never happened. It won't be allowed to happen again you know....

They also compare us with themselves constantly. It's always been a feature of them really. The way they see it, we're going to go through the same 20+ year barren spell as them, despite all of the signs clearly being there that United have quickly come to their senses to make sure that won't happen and we remain a major force. The club fecked up badly after SAF left, but what's happened since Moyes was thankfully sacked is not registering with some of them at all.

We don't compare ourselves with you at all. The way we see what - where have any of us said that...?

 

[BobbyManc]

Why are Liverpool called our rivals for next year? I can only assume that refers to historical derby rivalry rather than competing with us, which they won't.

Ridiculously arrogant. I don't think you'll find a City or Chelsea fan who would already dismiss Liverpool as a 'rival' for next season. I don't think Liverpool will put up a major challenge for the league next season personally but if they did I wouldn't be particularly surprised after last season and to just dismiss them like that can only come back to bite you in the arse.

 

[acnumber9]

Yep, the 20 point gap of last season is all breezily explained away by pointing to Moyes and Suarez. And now - regardless of having lost a huge amount of experience and cover in their back four - United are going to storm back courtesy of LvG, a CM from Bilbao who may or may not adapt quickly and well to the Prem, and a 19 year-old, apparently attacking wingback with no goals and 1 assist to his name from 60 appearances for S'hampton.

Are you not the one always saying previous seasons mean nothing when you're tipping Spurs to finish top 4?