OT EVACUATED | Device signed as having been recovered, could NOT be detected by sniffer dogs

[Smores]

Its clearly not uniteds fault. Stop being a weirdo. I know you're angry after a few crap seasons but we don't actually know where the bomb was hidden so its not neccessary for us to blame united for everything.

No reason to clean the toilets since wednesday as no matches were played.
The 'bomb' was part of a training exercise so quite possibly hidden from view. If i came to your house and chucked some semtex down the back of your bog would you know? Probably not.

Absolutely the security firms fault. If a business hired a building company to make some changes and the building company injured a member of the public somehow, its the building companys fault. Not the business who hired them.

It clearly is in part United's fault. No one's saying it's all United fault just that they'll face ultimate responsibility.

Somebody on our side must have been responsible for overseeing the activity including being aware of where they were working and what the plan was and ensuring it was in a good state afterwards. It's the failure of one rather low down the ladder employee so it's not the 'club' but it's still our name.

The police commissioner who rightly seems to be angry won't be absolving United of all blame you can be certain.

 

[ralphie88]

Think its very hard to pin this farce on the club, bit it sums up our omnishambles of a season

It is the club's responsibility under their Safety Certificate to sweep the stadium 24 hours before kick off. I am personally a little concerned they managed to miss a big fecking (albeit fake) bomb!

All in all this is going to cost the club in excess of £5m and possibly much more. Depending on their contract with the external company they *may* be able to pass the liability on but I'd not be holding my breath.

Still a £37 refund from the club and free entry on Tuesday - will pay for my beer money at Wembley! :-)

 

[Catt]

19-0 will still put us in CL, will it not?

Thats where the focus should be.

 

[devilish]

There had been some serious mismanagement issues in the past years which I haven't seen throughout my years supporting United. We have arrived late to the Spurs game, our coach was attacked in London (I won't be surprised if it happened in countries were hooliganism is still present like for example Turkey or Italy but London? seriously?) and now this. Meanwhile our endemic problems haven't been sorted (injury crisis, shitty football etc) Its very difficult to pinpoint the fault to somebody. However either we were extremely unlucky this year or I do not know.

 

[Sarni]

Thats where the focus should be.

Remember how our resident Scousers wanted to win the league on goal difference by putting 8 past Palace and Newcastle. That went well.

 

[devilish]

19-0 will still put us in CL, will it not?

LVG will go all out in this game. It will be the pinnacle of our philosophy, the end of every process. I am confident that we will create at least 4 chances of goal.

 

[ralphie88]

I'm guessing some white powder...

One in the eye for all those saying drugs are bad for your health.

 

[decorativeed]

I have a little bit of inside knowledge on this - knowing people who work matchdays at OT. The whole of the stadium is supposed to be swept by security staff - with the aid of sniffer dogs - before any match. It looks like they simply were not thorough enough. It seems to me like it was two failures - failure by the 'private company' to remove all the fake devices after the training exercise and failure of the prematch sweeping team.

 

[Slops]

Thats where the focus should be.

Absolutely. There's gonna be some red faces after they pre-emptively awarded Kane the golden boot ahead of Martial's quintuple hat-trick.

 

[ChrisNelson]

Still a £37 refund from the club and free entry on Tuesday - will pay for my beer money at Wembley! :-)

Well about 2 pints anyway!

 

[rcoobc]

Its clearly not uniteds fault. Stop being a weirdo. I know you're angry after a few crap seasons but we don't actually know where the bomb was hidden so its not neccessary for us to blame united for everything.

No reason to clean the toilets since wednesday as no matches were played.
The 'bomb' was part of a training exercise so quite possibly hidden from view. If i came to your house and chucked some semtex down the back of your bog would you know? Probably not.

Absolutely the security firms fault. If a business hired a building company to make some changes and the building company injured a member of the public somehow, its the building companys fault. Not the business who hired them.

I'm not angry, I find the whole thing a bit embarrassing mixed with a lot of relief. But the blame goes through us.

If you own a company, and you subcontract a job out and the company you subcontracted too injures someone, then you are still responsible. You can then probably sue the company who you contracted to do the work, but you are still yourself responsible.

If you bring in outside help to complete work for one of your customers and something goes wrong, who will be in the firing line? And what steps can you take to protect yourself?

A helping hand
If you’ve landed a contract but don’t have the resources or expertise to complete the work yourself, it’s common practice to use a sub-contractor to help out. But will you and your company be liable for their mistakes if things don’t go as planned?

Contractual problems
If you don’t supply the goods or services you’re being paid for in accordance with the terms and conditions of sale, you’ll be on the hook to sort out the problem, financial or otherwise, even if it was a sub-contractor which caused it.

Trap. Not having a sale contractdoesn’t mean you escape. Even if there’s no written or oral agreement, there’s an implied obligation to ensure that the job is completed to a reasonable standard.

Passing the buck
If your customer makes a claim against you because of, say, faulty workmanship, but this was down to the sub-contractor you used, you can, in turn, make a claim against them.

http://businessdatabase.indicator.c...a_sub_contractor_s_mistake_/UKTACDAR_EU110804

What Insurance Should I Require Independent Contractors to Have?
When you hire someone to work for you, they could make a mistake that costs you serious money. Say you hire an IT contractor who installs a slow, non-secure network. If your client suffers a data breach, your business can be sued for their mistake.

That’s why it’s important to hire insured contractors. If they make a mistake or fail to deliver the goods they promised, you are able to recoup some of the expenses by filing a lawsuit against them. Contractor insurance typically covers these damages and makes sure you don't end up paying for someone else's mistakes.

http://www.insureon.com/blog/post/2...-guide-to-contractor-liability-insurance.aspx

We can argue about the technical definitions here all day long, but it's clear as day that United are responsible whilst this security company are carrying out drills on their property, United are responsible after this security company leave, and United are responsible for not checking the toilets afterwards. Sure, United can sue this security company (especially if they got them to sign to say they had taken away all their equipment), but that doesn't absolve United in the first place.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

I don't know how you can attribute all of the blame on United, absolving the company that didn't account for all its equipment, considering the nature of that equipment.

On the flip side, if you were head of security at Manchester United, wouldn't you want to know exactly what was being brought into your workplace, where is was being left, and if it had been collected? Would you leave your job to chance, and place faith in a 3rd party company to do there job properly? As head of security, wouldn't you want to involve some of your most experienced stewards to shadow the security team, see what they do, how they do it, have a look the dummy devices? Gain their knowledge for if a drill ever became a reality, wouldn't you want to film the exercise so you can brief your staff.

All sounds simple things to me, maybe this role doesn't exist, either way it could have been easily avoided.

 

[rcoobc]

I don't know how you can attribute all of the blame on United, absolving the company that didn't account for all its equipment, considering the nature of that equipment.

No one is absolving the security company. Blame can fall into two or more categories.

When an incident such as plane crash or a roller coaster crash occurs, it is usually caused by multiple things going wrong at once:

• There might be faulty instruments on the plane.
• The pilot may have assumed the instruments were correct when he should have checked.
• The pilot may not have had enough sleep between shifts
• The alarms may not have gone off

And so on. So who's fault is it?.. Everyone's. Safety and security is everyone's responsibility.

If Manchester United wanted to, they could presumably sue the Security Company to high heaven for leaving the equipment, but some blame will still fall onto United.

 

[Shamwow]

I have a little bit of inside knowledge on this - knowing people who work matchdays at OT. The whole of the stadium is supposed to be swept by security staff - with the aid of sniffer dogs - before any match. It looks like they simply were not thorough enough. It seems to me like it was two failures - failure by the 'private company' to remove all the fake devices after the training exercise and failure of the prematch sweeping team.

Who found the thing in the end?

 

[rcoobc]

I have a little bit of inside knowledge on this - knowing people who work matchdays at OT. The whole of the stadium is supposed to be swept by security staff - with the aid of sniffer dogs - before any match. It looks like they simply were not thorough enough. It seems to me like it was two failures - failure by the 'private company' to remove all the fake devices after the training exercise and failure of the prematch sweeping team.

Working in Insurance & Legal for a construction company, this kind of scenario is not totally alien to me. Let's say we've been doing overnight work on a railway platform. When representatives of the Station arrive the following morning, they are required to sign to confirm that the platform is satisfactory. Then if someone trips over a screw (as happened once), we are in the clear.
This doesn't seem like the kind of scenario where United would feel the need to do such a sweep of the stadium as there were no changes to the structure taking place. Someone has decided, rightly or wrongly, that it would be assumed the training company had left the stadium in a satisfactory, mess free state. As soon as that company leaves, responsibility for keeping the stadium fit for purpose passes straight back to Manchester United. As careless as the training company are for leaving the device in situ, United are at least equally as culpable for it not being spotted before matchday. Fortunately the Title and relegation places are done and dusted because that would really have given the FA a headache. I hope this blows over quickly, mistakes were made and unfortunately they've been magnified because it occurred at a 76,000 seater stadium. Hopefully on reflection everyone can take the positives about how efficiently it was dealt with.

Good stuff

 

[JustAFan]

How big was this device? Seems it is growing in size by the hour to now being a "big fecking device" after starting out the size of a cell phone

 

[Member 5225]

Heard some murmurings that it the 'left behind training equipment' might be a bit of a cover story for something more genuine.

 

[rcoobc]

Heard some murmurings that it the 'left behind training equipment' might be a bit of a cover story for something more genuine.

Thankfully these murmurings are bollocks so that's okay.

 

[JustAFan]

I think it's pretty universally agreed that the reaction to finding this device was completely right and top notch. It's WHY it was there, not found before the crowd were already mostly in and who is responsible that people are arguing about.

Nah, there are plenty of people in this thread who are acting like everyone employed at the club should have known it was a fake and left behind by the security company.

 

[Blue always red]

Heard some murmurings that it the 'left behind training equipment' might be a bit of a cover story for something more genuine.

No chance would the GMP try to cover something like that up after the Liverpool fiasco.

 

[JustAFan]

Heard some murmurings that it the 'left behind training equipment' might be a bit of a cover story for something more genuine.

Be one of the dumbest cover stories ever, since it would be so easily blown (as already discussed in this thread).

 

[VeevaVee]

How big was this device? Seems it is growing in size by the hour to now being a "big fecking device" after starting out the size of a cell phone

Really wanted to search for a comical, cartoon picture of one but decided it wouldn't be the best thing to search for at work.

So just imagine it, then also imagine it was actually really funny.

Edit:

Had a rethink

Spoiler

 

[Big Andy]

How big was this device? Seems it is growing in size by the hour to now being a "big fecking device" after starting out the size of a cell phone

 

[JustAFan]

Do we know yet whether United hired this company to run a training drill or did the company ask to use OT as a training site for a drill?

 

[JustAFan]

Bog clogger!

 

[Slops]

Do we know yet whether United hired this company to run a training drill or did the company ask to use OT as a training site for a drill?

I think it's the latter. A similar drill was done at the Trafford Centre and it was supposed to be part of a series of training exercises.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

People are aware that we contract our security out to a firm called CES?

Criticising United for this error is a bit ridiculous, the club is as much a victim of this incompetence as Bournemouth.

The company that carried out the training excercise this week wasn't CES (as per Townsend's statement). It's a bit worrying that they didn't find it before they let people in but they didn't plant it earlier this week. And that's probably what caused the reaction.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

Nah, there are plenty of people in this thread who are acting like everyone employed at the club should have known it was a fake and left behind by the security company.

Not everyone at the club but someone.

Someone, should have known exactly what is going on, where these things are and if they have been collected.

Manchester United, have to ultimately carry the can for the mistakes their staff make, could be down to poor training, poor practices, cut backs, anything.

We are the biggest club in the world, make a feck load of money and this incident shouldn't have happened. However people want to dress this up, the club to some extent were negligent in their practices.

I take no pride in calling the club I love shambolic, embarrassing or a joke - I have no interest in trying to make the club look bad, but they have done themselves no favors.

 

[Member 5225]

This incident + being late for 2 games this season, just seems a bit amateur-ish IMHO

 

[starman]

not sure if anyones touched on it, i know the bomb was a fake, but what if it wasn't and someone in the external security team planted a bomb? It could have just been sitting there for 4 days with none in OT having checked

 

[macheda14]

This incident + being late for 2 games this season, just seems a bit amateur-ish IMHO

One of the latenesses was due to fans attacking the bus and this incident was in no way due to the club, but the security firm that left behind a fake bomb. Any chance to critique the club nowadays I guess.

 

[Shamwow]

Let's just wait for the details to emerge before jumping to con... ah feck it.

 

[Sigma]

Whooooooosh.

Missread the tweet

 

[VeevaVee]

not sure if anyones touched on it, i know the bomb was a fake, but what if it wasn't and someone in the external security team planted a bomb? It could have just been sitting there for 4 days with none in OT having checked

If the security firm is anything like as badly run as G4S, then there's a definite possibility they could employ someone without proper background checks.

 

[.Rossi]

One of the latenesses was due to fans attacking the bus and this incident was in no way due to the club, but the security firm that left behind a fake bomb. Any chance to critique the club nowadays I guess.

Yep. Not the club's fault that they allowed a life like bomb to sit in one of their toilets, at their own ground, for 4 days, unchecked, with no one spotting the fecker. Not even on the morning of the match, when every single area of the ground is checked.

If someone visits your house and does a shit in your toilet and doesn't flush it and you let it sit there for 4 days, unchecked and unflushed, whose fault is that?!

 

[JustAFan]

This incident + being late for 2 games this season, just seems a bit amateur-ish IMHO

You do know that being late for 2 games had ZERO to do with anything the club did right? I mean are we supposed to control London traffic, prevent other people from getting in accidents, then control where the cops direct the bus? Or are we supposed to control the West Ham fans? I mean come on, both those incidents were not caused by us.

 

[JustAFan]

Controlled explosion was carried out so must have been an explosive of some kind.

Not really, a controlled explosion can be carried out on a bag of candy. They use a separate explosive charge or as previously stated a high powered jet of water to destroy the device. They don't actually set the device off.

 

[.Rossi]

You do know that being late for 2 games had ZERO to do with anything the club did right? I mean are we supposed to control London traffic, prevent other people from getting in accidents, then control where the cops direct the bus? Or are we supposed to control the West Ham fans? I mean come on, both those incidents were not caused by us.

Have schedules changed in recent years? It used to be that the team/teams would arrive 3 hours before kick off

 

[The Black Pearl]

You do know that being late for 2 games had ZERO to do with anything the club did right? I mean are we supposed to control London traffic, prevent other people from getting in accidents, then control where the cops direct the bus? Or are we supposed to control the West Ham fans? I mean come on, both those incidents were not caused by us.

Everyone else, fans, officials, the opposition were able to make it on time. Probably because they planned ahead and left themselves a bit of time in case they got a puncture or there was a bit of heavy traffic. Common sense, really. You don't see other teams visiting London having the same problems Utd had this season.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Can the matchday thread be reopened now, I think we will all want to discuss the possibilities now that it's a dead rubber.

@Niall @Damien