Robbie Savage againIt makes me despair if Ryan Giggs missed out on becoming Swansea City’s new manager because his job interview was allegedly not up to scratch.
Giggs lost out to former United States coach Bob Bradley in the race to succeed Francesco Guidolin at the Liberty Stadium.
That’s Swansea’s call, and good luck to Bradley, but what kind of message does that send young British managers trying to make their way in the game?
Giggs played nearly 1,000 games for Manchester United spread over 24 years. What he doesn’t know about the Premier League, and what Swansea need to do if they want to stay in it, probably isn’t worth knowing.
I was not present at Giggs’ interview, so I don’t know the reasons why he missed the boat.
But if he didn’t tick enough boxes because there was no power-point presentation, or he hadn’t completed some human resources online module, football is going mad.
Surely Giggs’ experience at Old Trafford and his knowledge of the terrain at Premier League level – where he operated all his career – is worth a punt?
Surely his two years as Louis van Gaal’s assistant, another season as player-coach under David Moyes and his month as caretaker when Moyes was sacked in 2014, counts for something?
When Swansea players are sat in the dressing room under new management next Saturday, hoping to get something against Arsenal, would they be more inspired by Giggs – who played 50 games against the Gunners alone in his career – or Premier League virgin Bradley?
I know who would make me run through more brick walls.
This is nothing personal against Bradley. He may turn out to be an inspired appointment and I hope I am wrong about him.
I was wrong about Claudio Ranieri, who took Leicester to the title last season, and I was wrong when Southampton got rid of Nigel Adkins and replaced him with Mauricio Pochettino, who was an unknown quantity in England at the time.
But for every Pochettino and Ranieri, there have been a dozen dud appointments from abroad, like Pepe Mel at West Brom, Remi Garde at Aston Villa, Stale Solbakken at Wolves... the list could fill a phone directory.
Tottenham have landed on their feet with Pochettino, but in the last 20 years alone they have got their fingers burned by shopping overseas for managers and coming up with Jacques Santini, Christian Gross and Juande Ramos.
It’s ridiculous if managers are being appointed on how well they perform at interview instead of their knowledge of the terrain, their football philosophy and their contacts in the game.
Look, Giggs has no divine right to stroll into a big Premier League club and expect the manager’s job at the drop of a hat.
But his rejection by Swansea is another kick in the teeth for aspiring young British managers because Bradley’s arrival blocks another route to the top for home-grown coaches.
What is the point of senior players going on courses and taking their coaching badges, in the hope of forging a career in management, if there are no jobs for them at the end of the rainbow?
Some people say Giggs should prove himself by earning a crust at a lower division club before he takes on one of the big jobs in English football, but I’m not having that.
Why would the most decorated player in Premier League history want to prove himself on a wet Tuesday night at Yeovil as manager of Grimsby or Mansfield? What experience does he have of League Two football?
If, say, Rio Ferdinand, Paul Scholes, Steven Gerrard or Frank Lampard decide to venture into management, please don’t tell me they need to polish up their power-point presentation skills or prove themselves at Notts County or Plymouth first.
I’m not sayng they should necessarily be catapulted straight into the hot-seat at Old Trafford, Anfield or Stamford Bridge on a whim, but there are some big clubs in the Championship where they could cut their teeth.
And to those who say Gary Neville was a failure at Valencia, I say this: He still has a fantastic football brain.
As a pundit, we already know Neville has excellent communication skills when he is armed with a gadget – but he never stood a chance at Valencia because he didn’t know the language and he wasn’t up to speed with the politics of the club behind the scenes.
Giggs didn’t miss out at Swansea because he didn’t understand the culture of the Premier League – but his frustration will be felt all the way down the food chain.
I fear it means bright young managers, like Gary Rowett at Birmingham, face an even longer haul to reach the top because the path up the mountain is even more blocked.
And that cannot be good for English football in the long run.
Ryan Giggs | Interviewed for Wales job
- Thread starter FC Ronaldo
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Robbie Savage again
Savage is a tool. Awful article that makes little sense contradicting himself constantly.
Why do British coaches need to get jobs in Britain...?
What's stopping Giggs, Shearer etc from getting a job in ANY English speaking country!?
Or even doing what all foreign managers do and actually learning another language and then going over to say France or Spain and getting their experience over there...
I just find it really odd that they're now at the point of literally bemoaning their options, when in fact it's them themselves who are limiting their options to the top 2 divisions of the English league.
What's stopping Giggs, Shearer etc from getting a job in ANY English speaking country!?
Or even doing what all foreign managers do and actually learning another language and then going over to say France or Spain and getting their experience over there...
I just find it really odd that they're now at the point of literally bemoaning their options, when in fact it's them themselves who are limiting their options to the top 2 divisions of the English league.
1000%
Hasselbaink is nowhere near Giggs in terms of status, and even so, he's in the minority. You simply don't see former stars become managers in the 4th division.
"What sort of message does that give to young English managers?"
He's Welsh you twit, and to the best of my knowledge he isn't, and never has been a manager.
Just because you worked on the factory floor for many years, it doesn't make you managing director material.
Remove yourself from your own bottom, and go out and prove yourself at a lower level Goggs!......Salford F.C.?
He's Welsh you twit, and to the best of my knowledge he isn't, and never has been a manager.
Just because you worked on the factory floor for many years, it doesn't make you managing director material.
Remove yourself from your own bottom, and go out and prove yourself at a lower level Goggs!......Salford F.C.?
Pretty much. The question that has to be asked is whether Giggs is being touted for jobs because of what he's done, or what he can do...and it's the former right now. Plenty of players have a wealth of PL experience. Why are they any less qualified than Giggs is?
Maybe Giggs will go abroad though, and the British media will hail him as this 'brave' figure, stepping out of his comfort zone into...err, a high paying, lucrative job that's just a couple of hours away on a flight from the UK, when managers from those places come to the PL every year.
Good to see Giggs getting knocked down a peg or two.
To think he had divine right to the job at OT? you're having a laugh mate. How about prove yourself in League Two or Salford City like many other British managers do.
You ain't walking into a Premier League job anytime soon, get off your high horse and work for it.
To think he had divine right to the job at OT? you're having a laugh mate. How about prove yourself in League Two or Salford City like many other British managers do.
You ain't walking into a Premier League job anytime soon, get off your high horse and work for it.
Poor from Giggs. He'll be waiting a while for the "right" job then. No top club, in their right mind, is gonna hire him without him getting the proper experience."Swansea did not match my ambitions"
So what is Giggs's ambition then? Tottenham? Everton? Southampton? Jeez, Swansea has been a good job for people like Martinez, Rodgers and possibly even Monk to get their managerial career started, so why Giggs above that?
Because English head coaches aren't in demand at all outside of England and Giggs/Shearer are too proud and comfortable in England to leave for an assistant position. @Ramshock hit the nail on the head when he described coaching in England as neolithic. Most if not all sporting directors outside of the British isles want nothing to do with that style.
If he wants to be taken seriously, he'd be best served forgetting everything he's learnt about coaching thusfar, seeing if he can latch on as an low-level assistant to someone like Tuchel or Pal Dardai and then try to soak up as much knowledge as possible before blazing his own path
That's probably why we seldom see former stars becoming successful coach.
They dont want the hassle of learning the basic.
They forgot that as superstar they always has the best of everything from coaching to facility. Doing things at carrington where you have a squad of staff to help you is one thing, at lower club you probably have to put up the cones yourself and there's only you and an am
Forget experience, no one would want to hire someone with that attitude.
I've been interviewing people for jobs, and although my company is far from grand you dont see that kind of response, especially from one with no proper background exp.
I'd rather downgrade and hire a high-school graduate than a university grad because they know they wont find better thing elsewhere and give their all rather than an obnoxious guy who complains about everything and always looking for greener pasture
@Sky1981 The sense of entitlement is dismaying.
Speaking on ITV prior to England's 2018 World Cup qualifier against Malta, Ryan Giggs revealed that he turned down the Swansea City job.
It had been widely reported that Giggs was overlooked for the role, but in the video above the Manchester United legend states otherwise.
Giggs has been out of a job since Jose Mourinho took charge of United in the summer.
In the clip above the former Red Devils winger said he was busy enjoying his year off when he got the call from the Welsh club.
He said: "I get the call off Swansea, I met with them a couple of times.
"But in the end there was just mixed messages really from the football side and the ownership side of the club.
"And I just felt that their ambitions didn't really match mine, so, yeah, it didn't quite work out."
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-legend-ryan-giggs-9007361
It had been widely reported that Giggs was overlooked for the role, but in the video above the Manchester United legend states otherwise.
Giggs has been out of a job since Jose Mourinho took charge of United in the summer.
In the clip above the former Red Devils winger said he was busy enjoying his year off when he got the call from the Welsh club.
He said: "I get the call off Swansea, I met with them a couple of times.
"But in the end there was just mixed messages really from the football side and the ownership side of the club.
"And I just felt that their ambitions didn't really match mine, so, yeah, it didn't quite work out."
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-legend-ryan-giggs-9007361
Or waiting for Mourinho to get sacked so that the whole drama can start again?
I would love it if this man managed Manchester United to be fair.
Maybe that's why a lot of them fail, eh? I think starting from the bottom has its benefits in a manager's formative years, you get a chance to iron out a few flaws and pick up a few tricks away from the glaring eye of the public. I think its just being lazy, entitled and partly disrespectful of the craft of coaching for a former star player to think that his status and coaching badges make him top manager that can look down on an opportunity like Swansea because they don't 'match my ambitions'.
I think people are too romantic about this thinking, that someone is working himself up from Newport County in League Two to becoming manager of Manchester United one day, very few does that anymore. The only one I can think of is Allegri, who started out at Aglianese in Serie C2 (4th tier of Italian football), but he also had a modest playing career, so he was forced to work himself up. Former top players like Guardiola, Ancelotti, Conte, Simeone and Pochettino didn't have to start at that level, and none of them have the status of Giggs as a player.
Ancelloti didn't start out at Milan, whilst Guardiola started at Barca B and Athletico weren't the beast that Simeone turned them into. Basically they started out at a club like Swansea and worked their way up but that's beneath our Giggsy.
The thing is, football is churning out new managerial prospects every season and the longer Giggs stays out of the game the more distance there is between him and his dream job. Very soon names like Tuchel, Howie etc will be the go-to guys replacing established names like Simeone who have made it. Giggs should be managing now to show prospective employers like Everton, Southampton etc what he is about. To me it seems he is too scared to fail.
Ancellotti stated at Reggiana in Serie B. Guardiola at Barcelona B, Conte at Bari, Simeone in Argentina and Pochettino was given the chance at Espanyol as a former player when they were in the relegation zone and had already sacked two managers that season.
Perhaps I'm being too kind but I read the quote re: ambition meaning that the club's and his ideas about football/direction were misaligned rather than their ambition being lower than his.
Either way he's an idiot for talking about this on TV, no matter how sore he is about it.
Either way he's an idiot for talking about this on TV, no matter how sore he is about it.
We've had a few examples recently of the self-entitlement from this clique of ex-pros and pundits. Last week on MOTD, Jermaine Jenas was saying how difficult it is for top ex-pros to get their badges. When in reality they typically get fast-tracked and rarely have to pay their fees. That's hugely disrespectful to the coaches slugging their way through the courses, normally struggling to pay them in the first place and working the courses around existing full-time jobs and other coaching commitments. Then you have Shearer putting himself forward for the England job on MOTD with a single failed stint at Newcastle to his name and a career of shit analysis. Not only that, but the values he shows in his punditry - smug schoolboy smirks because he didn't prepare for the test of researching some foreign team - are characterised by a laziness and a complacent willingness to be unprepared for his work. Obviously Savage can be excused for being a lamebrain, but even Sutton shows the same ignorance and little Englander values. And now what we're hearing from Giggs is unconvincing, especially when his wet-lettuce media appearances so far - in terms of personality, analysis, strength of conviction - hardly make the case for him becoming management material.
I've never said that Giggs should start out at United or even in the PL, but League Two is too far down the latter. Serie B is only the 2nd tier of Italian football and Guardiola was only in charge of Barcelona B for a year before being given the top job at the club. It's like Giggs being in charge of our reserve team for a year before landing the top job at United, I don't think many would be keen on that.
Guardiola is on track to go down in history as one of the game's most successful and inventive managers ever, he is obviously a special case akin to comparing Heskey with Messi, so how he started doesn't matter at all. What we have with Giggs is a great player with ambitions to become Manchester United manager who has shown nothing else in football management, he needs to show the world what he is about as a manager and Swansea presented him with an opportunity far higher than the likes of Bari, Regina and Barca B.
Well he didn't say no to Swansea did he?
Not according to what he is quoted saying above.
If Ryan was super serious about his managerial career, and desperately wanted to become a top coach - as opposed to just a United manager because of his accrued credit as a legendary player, he should have used his time under Van Gaal to not just sound out potential vacancies with the league; but build a contingency portfolio of contacts in Spain, Germany, and especially - Holland, where Louis could've put in a good word if he privately believed Giggs was suited to such jobs. You get the sense that he put all his eggs into the United basket, based upon his belief in a supposed agreement (and they are always subject to change in a fluid industry), instead of branching out and networking a little outside of his comfort zone. Eredivisie clubs aren't averse to giving a chance to newbie managers - De Boer, Van Bronckehorst, Cocu (though them being ex-players in those clubs added some sort of value to their resume). Then he could build his portfolio up - like De Boer at Ajax, which earned an interview with Liverpool, and an appointment at Internazionale - both of them on merit. Or Stam - who went from defensive assistant at Ajax, to manager at Reading.
Guardiola has always been a weird reference point for Giggs because he was Cruyff's on-field 'brain' as a player, and you could visibly sense his leadership potential in the way he articulated himself and commanded the team, which was enhanced by his proactive liaisons with Bielsa and Lillo and co. - in terms of tactical know-how. Even then, the promotion from Barça B was a massive leap of faith by Barcelona, and normal PL clubs might not want to risk things and huge amounts of money by appointing someone who doesn't have a proven managerial track record to gauge his aptitude; and frankly seems rather void of gravitas, and detailed insight in the media gigs (not that it necessarily says a lot with 100% accuracy). It takes only one bad appointment to sink a club from midtable to the bottom of the table, and there are no rational benefits to taking a punt when it could cost you prestige and marketing benefits and tens if not hundreds of millions over the long haul in case of relegation (even with the parachute scheme), so it's understandable that the ambitions of Swansea didn't match his.
Guardiola has always been a weird reference point for Giggs because he was Cruyff's on-field 'brain' as a player, and you could visibly sense his leadership potential in the way he articulated himself and commanded the team, which was enhanced by his proactive liaisons with Bielsa and Lillo and co. - in terms of tactical know-how. Even then, the promotion from Barça B was a massive leap of faith by Barcelona, and normal PL clubs might not want to risk things and huge amounts of money by appointing someone who doesn't have a proven managerial track record to gauge his aptitude; and frankly seems rather void of gravitas, and detailed insight in the media gigs (not that it necessarily says a lot with 100% accuracy). It takes only one bad appointment to sink a club from midtable to the bottom of the table, and there are no rational benefits to taking a punt when it could cost you prestige and marketing benefits and tens if not hundreds of millions over the long haul in case of relegation (even with the parachute scheme), so it's understandable that the ambitions of Swansea didn't match his.
Ok, I quite dislike the bashing of Giggs on this forum but have to ask what would be lovely about that?
In my mind it would be borderline insanity to appoint the Giggs of today as United manager. Maybe 5 - 10 years down the line but not today.
It's a false belief that having been a great player automatically translates to them becoming great managers.
What's Giggs done in management that makes him over qualified for league two? It's an insult to league two managers to say that level is beneath him.
But he's speaking as if he is already a top manager whose goals are trophies and championships.
At his current level, his aim should be to build up his CV, show his quality and then, in a few seasons, start moving up the ladder towards the elite clubs that match his ambitions.
Saying Swansea did not match his ambitions is very much like a freshly minted graduate turning down a position because he won't be able match to realise his ultimate ambition of CEO immediately. At best, it is shortsighted. At worst, it is deluded.
I hope, for his sake, it was just a defensive comment to boost his ego. Rejection is a biatch.
I can't blame him for not taking the Swansea job (provided what he's saying is true and it was actually offered to him)
That club seems to be on a downward spiral and I don't think the players are very good. He'd be better off starting at a good championship side with a positive outlook. We saw what happened to solskjaer at Cardiff, Giggs would be right to be wary of jobs like that.
I know our current youth coach manager is doing a great job, but when he inevitably gets the call and moves to be the first team manager of a club, maybe Giggs could take that place like Zidane and Pep did.
That club seems to be on a downward spiral and I don't think the players are very good. He'd be better off starting at a good championship side with a positive outlook. We saw what happened to solskjaer at Cardiff, Giggs would be right to be wary of jobs like that.
I know our current youth coach manager is doing a great job, but when he inevitably gets the call and moves to be the first team manager of a club, maybe Giggs could take that place like Zidane and Pep did.
He's not over qualified, he's just too big a name for the 4th tier.
I think he said "ambitions" in terms of "philosophy".
After all he knew before the interview where Swansea stand and that they won't even come close to competing at the top.
After all he knew before the interview where Swansea stand and that they won't even come close to competing at the top.
It sounds like the equivalent of when you're keen on a bird, get rejected and proceed to say "her loss - I wasn't into her anyway".
Another odd PR exercise but he would have done well to avoid Swansea regardless. They're very well on the path to relegation and the running of the club off the pitch leaves a lot to be desired. Shades of Villa, really.
They certainly would be relegated if they had appointed Giggs. Whereas at the moment they are one of many to go down.
I think that's valid tbf.