GRAHAM POLL: Mark Clattenburg gives nothing to a side once their fans turn on him

[redflair]

I think Clattenburg still has a Twin Peaks-style nightmare of that Pedro Mendes goal not given at OT all those years ago - and it's made him go the other way in terms of borderline decisions concerning United (at the scene of the crime as it were).

Obviously you can't take what Graham Poll said too seriously but there is a prima facie case for saying that Clattenburg doesn't like virulent criticism from home fans - and often goes against them.

One of the clearest penalties you'll ever see (not awarded) was Hector Bellerin bringing down Ahmed Musa against Leicester earlier this season but he didn't award it because the Leicester fans were getting on his back throughout the game.

He's done this so often (to us and others, particularly Chelsea and Everton) that it's hardly worth debating anymore. He has an oversensitive character flaw. He's desperate to be liked - but when the home crowd's niggles turn into outright hostility he lashes out and turns on them like a petulant child.

Obviously the evidence against this argument might be the Rafael/Vardy incident where he's given the home side a highly dubious decision - but then it was against a team in red, and it's hugely enjoyable for some people to keep wielding their power against an opponent just because they can.

 

[clarkydaz]

couldnt believe his performance on Saturday. I actually said to the guy next to me he is making a point not bowing down to the crowd than actually reffing the game

 

[bio202]

But thats exactly what i was saying mate. He's mentally weak if he is so easily swayed, referees should be impartial no matter which team/manager/players they are officiating and how they personally feel about those people because of things that they may have said to them before, during or after games.

Clattenburg having said all that in the last few years has been quite clearly biased against United. So as far as i'm concerned he isn't able to be impartial towards United. He should have never been allowed to ref us again after Ferguson publicly supported him after the Chelsea incident and United fans making a banner for him. Since then he hasn't given us a thing.

We agree then.

 

[Alex99]

I've said this before, but there are too many Hollywood referees in the Premier League that want to make everything about them. Mark Clattenburg, Michael Oliver and Mike Dean are the worst offenders by far, but there's definitely a culture of showmanship creeping in amongst the PL refs. The almost complete lack of accountability doesn't help, and the appeals process against incorrect decisions also needs reworking.

They seem to care more about how dramatic they can make a gesture, or how controversial a decision (or lack thereof) will be than actually calling games in a fair manner. Dean's more guilty on the gesture side of things, loving a good dramatic crossed-arms-explosion when he's not giving something, or pointing from 20 yards away whilst sprinting towards an incident when he is giving something, but Clattenburg and Oliver love the whole "yeah I'm not bothered, see how not bothered I am" thing whilst simultaneously not awarding anything, before doing something mental like dishing out a red card or awarding a penalty for feck all.

 

[sugar_kane]

I've said this before, but there are too many Hollywood referees in the Premier League that want to make everything about them. Mark Clattenburg, Michael Oliver and Mike Dean are the worst offenders by far, but there's definitely a culture of showmanship creeping in amongst the PL refs. The almost complete lack of accountability doesn't help, and the appeals process against incorrect decisions also needs reworking.

They seem to care more about how dramatic they can make a gesture, or how controversial a decision (or lack thereof) will be than actually calling games in a fair manner. Dean's more guilty on the gesture side of things, loving a good dramatic crossed-arms-explosion when he's not giving something, or pointing from 20 yards away whilst sprinting towards an incident when he is giving something, but Clattenburg and Oliver love the whole "yeah I'm not bothered, see how not bothered I am" thing whilst simultaneously not awarding anything, before doing something mental like dishing out a red card or awarding a penalty for feck all.

Indeed, some of them would be better off reffing WWE.

 

[Full bodied red]

Just a reminder....

In the past five seasons, Clattenburg has sent off Jonny Evans, Nemanja Vidic, Tyler Blackett, Luke Shaw, Chris Smalling and now Ander Herrera.

More sendings off than all the other EPL refs put together.

And let's not even mention his record of awarding penalties against us....

 

[Chorley1974]

It's all about him. Massive Chamakh haircut cnut of a referee.

 

[Jazz]

It's the fault of the FA. It's not just him either. I'm shocked that clubs don't push more to have referees accountable for their actions, as it could cost them money.
The FA is supposed to be responsible for ensuring fair officiating in games, instead they spend time penalising managers for innocuous comments, so they can get their big headlines in the press.

No matter what, everyone needs to be held accountable, players, managers and definitely referees.

 

[David Court]

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I didn't think it was in the gift for any ref to 'give' things to a side.

They are meant to be unpartisan.

For Poll to suggest that is just as bad as his accusation implying Clattenberg was less than fair.

Now we know.

All refs can be swayed according to their prejudice.

Disgraceful from Poll.

 

[Full bodied red]

I didn't think it was in the gift for any ref to 'give' things to a side.

They are meant to be unpartisan.

For Poll to suggest that is just as bad as his accusation implying Clattenberg was less than fair.

Now we know.

All refs can be swayed according to their prejudice.

Disgraceful from Poll.

Disgraceful from Poll ? Or just stating what all football fans have suspected for years....

 

[Dumbat12]

I don't know how someone can watch a game of Manchester United with Clattenburg as a referee and not see how biased he is. Some of the decisions he makes are so blatantly obvious against us that it's quite frankly ridiculous. English refs in general are absolutely terrible, but this guy takes the cake.

And the problem is - we can't do shit about it.

 

[Cassady]

That's because he was, in his continued effort to prove he isn't biased towards United he goes to the other extreme.

After this banner, i think he gave at least 6 penalties against us in the next few games he reffed us. Including fecking 3 in one game vs Liverpool at OT.

Wasn't it two ?

 

[stevoc]

Wasn't it two ?

No it was 3 Gerrard missed the 3rd one.

 

[Strachans Cigar]

He looks like a complete arsewipe. Should be demoted to reffing in championship or something

I agree, demote the cnut to the championship. Let's see how many penalties & dubious decisions the Barcodes get.

I bet the twisted fecker still holds a grudge against us for sending Keegan & Newcastle into full meltdown mode and title capitulation in '96.

 

[WackyWengerWorld]

I didn't see any bias from the main decisions

Technically by the rule Herrera's could have been a straight red. It's a late 2 footed reckless challenge where he goes right through him regardless of intent or the bad luck from slipping. And the ref is behind the Burnley player, so what do you expect? Is he meant to have X-Ray vision to see Herrera slipping, not that a slip is an excuse in the rule book anyway. Unlucky maybe but technically a fair decision. And even if he didn't slip he still would of put in a late challenge which is technically a yellow. Referee had no choice but to send him off when he's already on a yellow and given the refs position he's a tad fortunate it wasn't a straight red.

Darmian's definitely wasn't stonewall as the defender got the ball first and would of been a very soft pen. Darmian also deliberately dived/jumped into the defender. Simulation is also a foul and yellow, is it not?

 

[Grinner]

You moany cnuts should try reffing a game and then come back here and post.

Refs are human and will make mistakes.

 

[OL29]

I didn't see any bias from the main decisions

Technically by the rule Herrera's could have been a straight red. It's a late 2 footed reckless challenge where he goes right through him regardless of intent or the bad luck from slipping. And the ref is behind the Burnley player, so what do you expect? Is he meant to have X-Ray vision to see Herrera slipping, not that a slip is an excuse in the rule book anyway. Unlucky maybe but technically a fair decision. And even if he didn't slip he still would of put in a late challenge which is technically a yellow. Referee had no choice but to send him off when he's already on a yellow and given the refs position he's a tad fortunate it wasn't a straight red.

Darmian's definitely wasn't stonewall as the defender got the ball first and would of been a very soft pen. Darmian also deliberately dived/jumped into the defender. Simulation is also a foul and yellow, is it not?

So you've worked out that Hererra actually should've been given a straight red and that Darmian should've been booked for diving? This must be a WUM surely?

 

[roonster09]

I didn't see any bias from the main decisions

Technically by the rule Herrera's could have been a straight red. It's a late 2 footed reckless challenge where he goes right through him regardless of intent or the bad luck from slipping. And the ref is behind the Burnley player, so what do you expect? Is he meant to have X-Ray vision to see Herrera slipping, not that a slip is an excuse in the rule book anyway. Unlucky maybe but technically a fair decision. And even if he didn't slip he still would of put in a late challenge which is technically a yellow. Referee had no choice but to send him off when he's already on a yellow and given the refs position he's a tad fortunate it wasn't a straight red.

Darmian's definitely wasn't stonewall as the defender got the ball first and would of been a very soft pen. Darmian also deliberately dived/jumped into the defender. Simulation is also a foul and yellow, is it not?

Seriously you live in Wacky Wenger World.

 

[Needham]

We make such a fuss in the UK about how are refs are top because they could never be bought. But that's with cash. In terms of the underlying incompetencies associated with the typical male ego our lot are, in the words of Uruguyan poet, Ramon Chedevar,
"Like loosened seats from old stadia torn,
Never missing an opportunity to state they were born."
In other words, grade A twats.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I didn't see any bias from the main decisions

Technically by the rule Herrera's could have been a straight red. It's a late 2 footed reckless challenge where he goes right through him regardless of intent or the bad luck from slipping. And the ref is behind the Burnley player, so what do you expect? Is he meant to have X-Ray vision to see Herrera slipping, not that a slip is an excuse in the rule book anyway. Unlucky maybe but technically a fair decision. And even if he didn't slip he still would of put in a late challenge which is technically a yellow. Referee had no choice but to send him off when he's already on a yellow and given the refs position he's a tad fortunate it wasn't a straight red.

Darmian's definitely wasn't stonewall as the defender got the ball first and would of been a very soft pen. Darmian also deliberately dived/jumped into the defender. Simulation is also a foul and yellow, is it not?

is your eyesight ok?

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Can the FA charge managers for massively over the top sarcasm?

Just thinking it would be great if Mou came out and said Clattenburg was brrriiiliant. The red card was certainly correct and the penalties were blatant dives. Mark did a very, very, very...... very good job. Well done Mark.

They couldn't charge him for that surely?

 

[Fridge chutney]

Its rich that some of the moaniest fans on the planet come in on their high horse telling United fans that they should have no problem with Clattenburg.

 

[izec]

Can the FA charge managers for massively over the top sarcasm?

Just thinking it would be great if Mou came out and said Clattenburg was brrriiiliant. The red card was certainly correct and the penalties were blatant dives. Mark did a very, very, very...... very good job. Well done Mark.

They couldn't charge him for that surely?

Of course they could, sarcastic comments are obvious too. Wasnt Mourinho fined for that previously?

The best thing is just to stop talking about referees, positively or negatively.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Of course they could, sarcastic comments are obvious too. Wasnt Mourinho fined for that previously?

The best thing is just to stop talking about referees, positively or negatively.

Just Googled it and he was indeed!

 

[Fridge chutney]

Just Googled it and he was indeed!

Only certain managers get away with consistently talking about refs, and definitely Mourinho is not one of them: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...oes-Arsenal-boss-blame-officials-results.html

 

[WackyWengerWorld]

is your eyesight ok?

It's good enough to read the football rules and note that Clattenburg was correct in all of his decisions from his vantage point.

So you've worked out that Hererra actually should've been given a straight red and that Darmian should've been booked for diving? This must be a WUM surely?

According to the actual rules, which I've quoted, both are possibilities. Disagreeing with a conspiracy theory that Clattenburg is out to get you, when none of his decisions are contenious to an unbiased eye, does not equate to WUMMING.

Seriously you live in Wacky Wenger World.

Because I'm not sitting here with the rest of you wearing a tin foil hat?

Can the FA charge managers for massively over the top sarcasm?

Just thinking it would be great if Mou came out and said Clattenburg was brrriiiliant. The red card was certainly correct and the penalties were blatant dives. Mark did a very, very, very...... very good job. Well done Mark.

They couldn't charge him for that surely?

Ironically all of that would in fact be true except for the fact Darmian was lucky to escape a booking for diving, which was blatant.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

It's good enough to read the football rules and note that Clattenburg was correct in all of his decisions from his vantage point.



According to the actual rules, which I've quoted, both are possibilities. Disagreeing with a conspiracy theory that Clattenburg is out to get you, when none of his decisions are contenious to an unbiased eye, does not equate to WUMMING.



Because I'm not sitting here with the rest of you wearing a tin foil hat?



Ironically all of that would in fact be true except for the fact Darmian was lucky to escape a booking for diving, which was blatant.

The penalty shouts are dubious.

If you watch the Herrera second yellow there is only contact because he slips. Several ex referee's have confirmed it shouldn't have been a yellow so you need to consider it may be you with the tin foil hat.

 

[theyneverlearn]

It's good enough to read the football rules and note that Clattenburg was correct in all of his decisions from his vantage point.

There are linesmen who he could consult if he couldn't see the tackle fully. A professional referee should know that a decision of that magnitude shouldn't be taken lightly. He should have got a second opinion.

 

[WackyWengerWorld]

The penalty shouts are dubious.

If you watch the Herrera second yellow there is only contact because he slips. Several ex referee's have confirmed it shouldn't have been a yellow so you need to consider it may be you with the tin foil hat.

1. From Clattenburg's vantage point though he can't see whether Herrera slips or not because he has the fouled Burnley player obscuring his view, all he can see is the Burnley player having 2 feet go through him after the ball has been passed.

2. Can you point out said referees? Because by the rules, it's a second yellow at least unless someone can point out where in the rules being unintential mitigates an offense. I can understand a referee saying he wouldn't give a yellow and turn a blind eye because of the lack of intent. But that doesn't mean it's wrong to not turn a blind eye to it either. And even if that's the case then Clattengurg didn't have the vantage point to exercise that discretion because he couldn't see the slip he could only see .

3. While Herrera does slip he is coming in to challenge anyway. So the challenge is worse because of the slip but he's come in for the challenge anyway and is late. A late tackle is an automatic yellow unless a blind eye is turned.

So I'm not trying to be a WUM at all as I've been accused of here. I'm objectively defending the referee. Even though I can understand many fans here are upset and looking for someone to blame.

There are linesmen who he could consult if he couldn't see the tackle fully. A professional referee should know that a decision of that magnitude shouldn't be taken lightly. He should have got a second opinion.

But even if he did where is the legal exclusion for intent on a yellow? I haven't read it anywhere

Many Arsenal fans were calling ref bias for this red


I wasn't, it's a straight red by the rules. A different circumstance from Herrera's but I see a case for straight red even though I was hoping for yellow.

 

[mitchmouse]

Clattenburg was really promising in his first season but the power and "success" seems to have gone to his head. Total tosspot

 

[DomesticTadpole]

No wonder these referees never get better, they are completely untouchable and nobody takes them to task.

Mourinho charged with misconduct
Not a surprise

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Jose Mourinho has been charged with misconduct following @ManUtd's @premierleague game against @BurnleyOfficial on Saturday:

 

[SteveJ]

It's like arresting the victim of a robbery and giving the thieves a ride home.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

1. From Clattenburg's vantage point though he can't see whether Herrera slips or not because he has the fouled Burnley player obscuring his view, all he can see is the Burnley player having 2 feet go through him after the ball has been passed.

2. Can you point out said referees? Because by the rules, it's a second yellow at least unless someone can point out where in the rules being unintential mitigates an offense. I can understand a referee saying he wouldn't give a yellow and turn a blind eye because of the lack of intent. But that doesn't mean it's wrong to not turn a blind eye to it either. And even if that's the case then Clattengurg didn't have the vantage point to exercise that discretion because he couldn't see the slip he could only see .

3. While Herrera does slip he is coming in to challenge anyway. So the challenge is worse because of the slip but he's come in for the challenge anyway and is late. A late tackle is an automatic yellow unless a blind eye is turned.

So I'm not trying to be a WUM at all as I've been accused of here. I'm objectively defending the referee. Even though I can understand many fans here are upset and looking for someone to blame.



But even if he did where is the legal exclusion for intent on a yellow? I haven't read it anywhere

Many Arsenal fans were calling ref bias for this red


I wasn't, it's a straight red by the rules. A different circumstance from Herrera's but I see a case for straight red even though I was hoping for yellow.

Read the article in the OP also Dermot Gallagher on sky ref watch. that Xhaka one wasn't a straight red for me either. Think you are too kind to refs.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

It's like arresting the victim of a robbery and giving the thieves a ride home.

The problem now is that referees want to be part of the action. They seem to forget that people go to watch the football and footballers. You should come away from a game and not even remember who the referee was. That is rarely the case now.

 

[Adisa]

well, he's gotten the derby.

 

[Jazz]

well, he's gotten the derby.

Let's see which of our resident Arse or Spurs fans will pissed at him after the derby

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Let's see which of our resident Arse or Spurs fans will pissed at him after the derby

I'm kind of hoping it'll be Arsenal on the receiving end.

 

[Jazz]

I'm kind of hoping it'll be Arsenal on the receiving end.

I'm sure we'll be hearing about it either way.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Read the article in the OP also Dermot Gallagher on sky ref watch. that Xhaka one wasn't a straight red for me either. Think you are too kind to refs.

Arsenal fans are kind to refs when it suits them.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Arsenal fans are kind to refs when it suits them.

Some of the decisions they've had this season I'm not surprised. Apart from the Xhaka one, that was harsh.