Does anyone even play football at a decent level, that won the Ballon D'or before the Messi and Ronaldo monopoly? I'm expecting to see names like Denis Law and Eusebio its been that long since anyone else won it.
Ballon d'Or 2016
- Thread starter Samid
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So as per them, the 2 best keepers last year were buffon and patricio!
Forget Dave, not even Neuer!!!
No matter how you look at it-calendar year or season, that's just wrong
Forget Dave, not even Neuer!!!
No matter how you look at it-calendar year or season, that's just wrong
And Payet was as good as Modric last year. That's something I find hard to believe
Navas was the best keeper in 2015/2016
Had the second longest shut out streak in the UCL in the full 66 years of the competition, going 730+ minutes without conceding a goal and was also the most consistent performer conceding only 3 goals in 11 performances with 9 clean sheets.
What he meant was both combined and he is not. The point about Messi elevating Barcelona is just untrue. That Barca team elevated Messi and provided him a solid platform. That is not to discredit Messi but let's not reinvent things by saying HE elevated a team of 10 other players more than the impact of 10 players on 1 player.
EDIT: On a lighter note it is funny how irate and frustrated some Messi supporters get when Ronaldo is discussed as opposed to most Ronaldo supporters who don't really care that much. (not pointing out anyone I've quoted on here)
No it's not, Messi scored 73 goals in a single season and yet those guys you mention, surrounding him, failed to make that team win the league or the UCL with him on the field making history. If we talk about elevating I'd say turning Biglia, Enzo Perez, Gago, Mascherano, Marcos Rojo, Romero and Zabaleta into world cup finalists or 3 consecutive major titles finals is the best exponent of a single guy having an impact on a whole team.
What frustrates in the discussion of Messi is that if you want to have a discussion you have to downplay his merits, stats and whole career to try to put him at Ronaldo level or say that Barcelona made him more than he is. I've been seeing this guy play for a decade and the number of times that the team has let him down are a lot more than the other way around, what I've put in bold is an opinion that I don't share but at least is not plainly destructive, other people try to convince me of things that I, having seen mostly of his games with Barcelona (and I'm talking about 500~ games, give or take) consider an insult to my intelligence
He'd struggle on a windy rainy night game in Stoke
That is only what you think or at least, I don't think that way. I am not downplaying Messi but to say he elevated (already) one of the greatest sides in world football is exaggeration. Look no further, Barca > Argentina the past decade or so. Messi has been in both.
Besides, I could also make the point that Ronaldo's achievements are down played: "just" a goal scorer. His team won a few competitions etc. Lastly, you can't honestly bring up the "team letting Messi down" argument. If you don't believe the Barca squad was leaps better than Madrid's during their dominance surely you can see Argentina has had way more quality than Portugal. You could say Ronaldo has better leadership/rallying ability but then again that is a weakness of Messi then - not all footballing ability is what you can do with your feet.
Someone posted an Opta stat saying that Ronaldo's had more assists in the CL than Messi, at least since his move to Real. Just a goalscorer though 
Messi's the better player, IMO, but not by much. 5:4 Ballon d'Ors is about right. Messi has always played with better players. Suarez, Neymar, Iniesta and Xavi are generally better than any of Ronaldo's team-mates at Madrid. Same with Argentina and Portugal. The very fact that Ronaldo has made it a contest given these circumstances speaks volumes about his quality and consistency.
Messi's the better player, IMO, but not by much. 5:4 Ballon d'Ors is about right. Messi has always played with better players. Suarez, Neymar, Iniesta and Xavi are generally better than any of Ronaldo's team-mates at Madrid. Same with Argentina and Portugal. The very fact that Ronaldo has made it a contest given these circumstances speaks volumes about his quality and consistency.
Was Ronaldo even better than Messi in la Liga or the CL?
Quite good, I'd say!
Whenever i dip into these threads i remember why i dont usually bother. It reads like some of you must have been crying yourself to sleep over this news.
Getting to the point where Ronaldo, in particular, has more Dor's than he deserves, when placed in the context of former greats who have won 1,2 or 3 for example.
Is he better than Marco Van Basten was, not in a million years.
Is he better than Marco Van Basten was, not in a million years.
Given that Ronaldo has won the European Cup, albeit barely featuring in the final, and the CL I think him winning is perfectly fine given the factors that seem to decide this trophy. On the other hand if you just judge by individual level of play Suarez actually had a point, I think he should have won it, no matter how much I dislike the guy I feel that in terms of individual performances and form he was ahead of Ronaldo and Messi over the last year.
Modrić being so low on the list is a travesty.
He was on that team too, so...and didn't he miss a penalty that would have put them in the CL final?
He didn't carry them to the WC final. They carried him. He was a nonentity against belgium, holland and germany. And let's not pretend mascherano and biglia are scrubs.
Nobody's been downplaying messi to put him at cristiano's level here
Not the point. Barcelona didn't make him more than he is. Barcelona allowed him to have the career he's had in terms of trophies and stats. They did elevate him, more than he elevated them. Let's see Messi winning the bundesliga with dortmund, then we can talk about comparing him to maradona.
But likewise, that team carried him more times than he carried them(as in, team underperformed but messi won them games anyways). Look, the only season in which messi truly carried barcelona was 2012-13. The rest of the time, he was simply the point of the arrow
Suárez should have won IMO. It seems the majority disagree though.
Nonsense. He was their single creative hub in every match. Opposition regularly committed multiple players closing him down, and his teammates were absolutely horrible, no movement at all. In the end it amounted to very dull matches, where Argentina were lucky to get to the final. But without Messi they most likely wouldn't made it of the group phase, let alone to the final. They were atrocious, completely disinterested.
As for Messi not being the main reason for Barcelona winning so much, sorry but that is hilarious.
Really? Where does Van Basten rate, with Messi at GOAT?
How do people care so much about this?
This thread is like who's having a bigger dick. When the measurement is out then the argument moved to who's having the bigger circumference, girdth, etc
While in truth none of the dicks belongs to any of you.
In short you're arguing about other people's dick
While in truth none of the dicks belongs to any of you.
In short you're arguing about other people's dick
Because the consensus amongst the majority of players, coaches and journalists of who the best player over the course of the entire year was is interesting.
The best 9 of all time in my view.
Ronnie, would be in the top 20 players, just.
Football did exist before the 21st century, believe it or not.
Of course he is. He can score goals at the rate of Van Basten and offer more threat all over the pitch. When you got an athlete, incredibly skilful winger who can also score as much as a striker, what makes Van Basten better may I ask? Ronaldo has 3 Champions League has he not and broken all kinds of goals coring records.
How has Ronaldo won more than he deserves? The fact it is voted neutrally and he beats Messi to it, or at least rivals him speaks volumes. Messi is arguably the GOAT and Ronaldo has rivalled him all the way.
Ronaldo is better then Van Basten was. Even as a 9...but Ronaldo clearly isn't the Ronaldo of old - but he'll still probably score 50 goals lol
If you'd seen Van Basten play you'd be asking "what makes Ronaldo better"
Its really not even close.
The fifa generation stats thing is a bit stale now. No doubt you guys would say he was better than Barca Ronaldo too(because stats, innit)
Its really not even close.
The fifa generation stats thing is a bit stale now. No doubt you guys would say he was better than Barca Ronaldo too(because stats, innit)
Yeh and its like if there is no Messi in this era, he could have won it for more than 8 times.
People still fail to understand that it's a subjective award, it might be the only individual trophy that has some value but it's still a shite and subjective award. It only serves France Football marketing teams.
Footballl is a collective game, you can't objectively determine who is the best player, in any given team 11 players have 11 different roles they are all important for the team.
What makes Ronaldo better than Modric? They are both everything for Real Madrid, Ronaldo might score the goals but Modric is crucial in their creation. Fortunately Ronaldo acknowledged it and thanked his teammates.
Footballl is a collective game, you can't objectively determine who is the best player, in any given team 11 players have 11 different roles they are all important for the team.
What makes Ronaldo better than Modric? They are both everything for Real Madrid, Ronaldo might score the goals but Modric is crucial in their creation. Fortunately Ronaldo acknowledged it and thanked his teammates.
You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it is one that is in the minority. The consensus amongst the players, coaches and journalists is that is that Ronaldo deserved all his awards, and he has more than Van Basten. No way is it "not even close".
Internationals alone prove how much better Ronaldo is, especially when you consider the players Van Basten had the privilege to play for with the Netherlands. Gullit, de Boer, Rijkaard, Bergkamp and Koeman and not only did he not score near the amount Ronaldo did but he never won anything with such a team.
Then we could talk about Ronaldo's consistency at club level, Van Basten's 242 goals do not even come close to Cristiano's 500+.
Completely different times. It was much harder to score in Serie A back then than it is in La Liga now. I am not saying that Van Basten was better though, just that context has to be applied when comparing the amount of goals they scored in the league.
Well Van Basten's story is always coloured by the fact he retired through injury upon turning just 28. If you're comparing their career goals outputs, Cristiano has impressively rattled in another 200 goals since he turned 28 so it's not like for like. Even moreso when you factor in Van Basten spent his best years at the defensively toughest league of all time, where you could win the league as Milan did by netting just 36 goals.
And if you're comparing their respective international records, Van Basten wins out. He played in 3 major tournaments - was the indisputable star of one, was injured in the next one, and played very well in the last one. Ronaldo has been much more inconsistent and has had 7 bites at the cherry and not yet delivered anything close to what Van Basten did in 1988. Not that he's been crap, as he was good in 2004 and 2006, and has had the intermittent good performance thereafter, but Van Basten's impact was much clearer. That's what he needed to do to be considered amongst the greatest of all time despite retiring at such a young age.
Just a little remark and it's not about Messi vs Ronaldo but about the inconstencies of this type of award.
Messi is the only Argentine that received a vote, 3 Portuguese players received at least one vote but Messi got sanctioned because he didn't win the Copa America. So it's intuitive to conclude that according to the voting journalists, Messi led Argentina to an international final without being supported by players worthy of their vote and got penalized by the lack of quality around him.
The same thing can be said about Lloris, he had an excellent Euro as good as Rui Patricio, he also had an excellent season in PL leading the best defense in the league but he isn't listed. Vidal is an other one, he wins the Copa America, he was very good in 2016 for Bayern but Vardy is in front of him.
Messi is the only Argentine that received a vote, 3 Portuguese players received at least one vote but Messi got sanctioned because he didn't win the Copa America. So it's intuitive to conclude that according to the voting journalists, Messi led Argentina to an international final without being supported by players worthy of their vote and got penalized by the lack of quality around him.
The same thing can be said about Lloris, he had an excellent Euro as good as Rui Patricio, he also had an excellent season in PL leading the best defense in the league but he isn't listed. Vidal is an other one, he wins the Copa America, he was very good in 2016 for Bayern but Vardy is in front of him.
Uhhh Ronaldo helped his team to their first ever International trophy, how the hell does Van Basten win out lol
Van Basten did that too. He had a better tournament than Ronaldo did and was the best player in it as well.
I would agree. Ronaldo, Best and then Charlton would be my top three.Feels amazing
So happy he's won it.
100% no doubt. Anyone who questions that needs their brain checked.
What ronaldo has achieved is really unbelievable. No one would have ever expected this kind of consistent performance when he was young.
Hes defnitely better than van baston.