Ballon d'Or 2016

Synco

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RedRonaldo said:
My knowledge is Muller being renowned as poacher/goalscorer rather than playmaker etc so presumably he probably isn't one of the top assist in Europe during his time. I could be wrong on that though.
Click to expand...
This view of Müller is completely understandable, as it's according to the almost universally shared image of him as a footballer. But the more I have watched and read about him, the more it became clear that he was a very complete player, whose abilities far outreached the typical striker role, and in some ways even a typical forward role.

That's a also a problem for the Ronaldo/Müller debate we have here, of course. When earlier in this thread the post-2012 ('poacher') version of Ronaldo is characterized like this...
Theonas said:
He plays more like a better version of Gerd Muller or Van Nistelrooy which is of course still one of the best players in the world but most definitely not in the game changing league as the other company he used to belong to.
Click to expand...
... I think we have a serious misconception here about Müller in the first place, regarding both player type and individual quality. Again, understandibly, as it's according to how he is remembered today. I had that picture in my mind too, and was quite surprised when I started watching him in games.

I haven't figured him out completely yet, mostly because his approach to individual games varied so much. But this I am sure of:

Müller was never a limited or single-minded poacher, but kind of the prototype of a modern striker: a hyper-intelligent, flexible, roaming forward with supreme tactical awareness. His game had aspects of a false 9, often dropping off (and very deep at times), initialising quick combinations and arriving in the box with the flow of the attacking wave rather than waiting there for the ball. Most surprisingly, he is also one of the best defending strikers I have seen, especially when put in historical perspective.

He mixed these aspects of his game with more conventional interpretations of a striker role, and the specific mixture of these elements varied from game to game, sometimes quite a lot. The best explanation I have read for this was that he adapted to the setup and specific needs of his team and moulded his own role after whatever provided the best balance. (Another possibility is that his game got more variable as he got older, but as I said, I don't know yet.)

So my working hypothesis is that when he played with a dominant midfield playmaker like Overath (in the NT), his tendency was to stay further up. In games where there was no such midfielder (Bayern after 1974 for example, Beckenbauer mainly played in defence), he took over more playmaking duties. The footage I have seen so far seems to support this.

But whatever picture of Müller will form at the end, it's already clear to me that the cliché of him being an Inzaghi-type of poacher is wildly inaccurate. It reminds me of the prejudice against Roy Keane being a brute destroyer, when in fact he was a complete central midfielder, very good on the ball and tactically excellent. But he often gets reduced to his most recognizable quality - just like Müller and his goalscoring. The misconception towards Müller seems even worse, because it's more widespread and almost completely unchallenged, sports journalism inluded. My guess here is that some of his traits were so far ahead of his time that they simply went unrecognized by the public and never became part of his legacy.

------------------------

So here are some nice (and probably surprising) Müller moments I came across. Just random examples to give an idea what I'm talking about.

#1 Müller individually pressing three Dutch players, forcing their build up play back to the goalkeeper (almost) on his own (WC final 1974, at 22:50 of the video)


#2 My personal WTF moment: Müller falling back to the DM position after a Bayern turnover early in the 1975 EC final against Leeds, orchestrating the defensive movement of his teammates. The scene starts when Müller participates in build up from an OM position at the half way line (7:20); he then gradually moves back in defensive transition and reenters the picture centrally at Bayern's box at 7:40.


#3 Müller constantly seeking deeper areas in build up, transition and combination play in the final third in the 1976 EC semi-final against Real Madrid.

Almost needless to say that he scored in all of these three wins, a total of four out of the six goals for his teams. (#4) He also provided the one-touch, long range key pass for the first goal against Leeds, after combining forward from his defensive LCM position. (Where, just to reinforce the point about his versatility, he moved to after having blocked a pass at the right corner of his team's 16-yard box with a sliding tackle, moved to CDM afterwards and went on to make a defensive run towards his team's five yard box (left side). This whole sequence can be seen in the video of the game's second half from 24:50 to 26:30. Pre-assist is at 26:05)
[Has to be watched on Youtube]

-----------------------

So as a final thought, when I think of what kind of player Müller could be in today's game, I don't imagine him to be a more lethal version of Pippo Inzaghi, but rather a bastard of Luis Suarez and Thomas Müller, more prosaic than the former, but with a better shot conversion rate than either of them. Helluva pressing player, too.
 
Inaugural edition of The Best FIFA Football Awards™

Samid

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All you need to know about The Best
As the clock ticks down, the excitement is mounting. The world’s best football players and coaches will be recognised on Monday 9 January 2017 at the inaugural edition of The Best FIFA Football Awards™. Zurich’s TPC studios will host the awards themselves, with the winners of each accolade decided by the global football community.

As all of the stars begin to descend upon Zurich, we want to make sure you get all you need to know about the awards ahead of Monday’s ceremony.

Which awards will be handed out?
- The Best FIFA Men's Player Award (Nominees: Cristiano Ronaldo, Antoine Griezmann and Lionel Messi)
- The Best FIFA Women’s Player Award (Nominees: Melanie Behringer, Carli Lloyd and Marta)
- The Best FIFA Men’s Coach Award (Nominees: Claudio Ranieri, Fernando Santos and Zinedine Zidane)
- The Best FIFA Women’s Coach AwardThe FIFA Puskás Award 2016 (Nominees: Marlone, Daniuska Rodriguez and Mohd Faiz Subri)
- The FIFA Fair Play Award
- The FIFA Fan Award (Nominees: ADO Den Haag supporters, Borussia Dortmund-Liverpool supporters and Iceland supporters)

When and where will the ceremony take place?
The ceremony itself, at Zurich's TPC Studios (Technology and Production Center, Switzerland AG, 8052 Zurich) will begin at 18.30 CET, but we will have a live blog on FIFA.com from 14.30 CET, to bring you all the build-up from the Green Carpet ahead of the event. You can follow along with the pre-ceremony Green Carpet and the ceremony itself, via streams on FIFA TV on YouTube, as well as the live blog.

Who voted for these awards?
The winners of The Best FIFA Men's and Women's Player, and The Best FIFA Men's and Women's Coach awards, are determined through a combined voting process, in which 50 per cent of the decision is based on the votes of captains (25 per cent) and head coaches (25 per cent) from national teams all around the globe. The remaining 50 per cent is split equally between an online public ballot of football fans (25 per cent) and submissions from a selected group of media representatives (25 per cent) from all around the world. The vote took place between Friday 4 November and Tuesday 22 November 2016.

What steps were taken to protect the integrity of the voting results and ensure compliance with the allocation rules?
The voting procedure for each of the awards has been supervised and monitored by the independent observer PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) Switzerland.

How does voting for the FIFA Puskás Award and FIFA Fan Award work?
The FIFA Puskás Award and FIFA Fan Award are voted by you, the fans. Public voting is taking place on FIFA.com with each individual member of the public entitled to make one vote for each category. Haven’t voted yet? There’s still time! Voting for The FIFA Fan Award will close at 10.00am CET on 9 January, while voting for the FIFA Puskás Award will close during the ceremony.

How is the FIFA FIFPro World11 selected?
The FIFA FIFPro World11 awards are organised by FIFPro. The awards recognise the best players in each position based on their performances during the period from 1 December 2015 to 28 November 2016 inclusive. The winners are selected by over 45,000 professional players from around the world with each vote carrying the same weight.

What trophies will be handed out?
The winners of the inaugural The Best FIFA Men's and Women's Player, and The Best FIFA Men's and Women's Coach awards will be given a newly-designed, platinum-coated trophy. The trophy has a shape which resembles the iconic FIFA World Cup™ Trophy, an homage to tradition with a contemporary, dynamic design. The winners of the other awards will also be handed different, platinum-coated, trophies during the ceremony.

How can I join in the discussion around the awards?
Use #TheBest to join in the debate around the awards, which you can follow on Twitter @FIFAcom. Make sure to follow us on Instagram and Facebook for exclusive content throughout the day.
 

Xaviesta

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Won't be surprised to see Zidane win coach of the year, despite Ranieri and Santos having the more impressive achievements in 2016 relative to resources. Expect Ronaldo to win the best player award.
 

Revan

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Ah, 'the no-one cares about, Ballon D'Or-lite' awards. Expect Pele to get his yearly award.
 

SirAF

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Meh, I don't like that they have splitted from France Football. The Ballon d'Or will always be the traditional more prestigious/important award but this being FIFA it is still "official".. fecking FIFA! Was better when it was only one award.
 

GlastonSpur

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Ranieri should win it hands down if there's any justice.

I'm tired of managers with vast resources at their disposal being lauded for success.
 

Revan

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SirAF said:
Meh, I don't like that they have splitted from France Football. The Ballon d'Or will always be the traditional more prestigious/important award but this being FIFA it is still "official".. fecking FIFA! Was better when it was only one award.
Click to expand...
It wasn't IMO. The Ballon D'Or system voting changed, which gave an extra Ballon D'Or to Messi and Ronaldo instead of Sneijder and Ribery. Ballon D'Or was always more than the most popular player around, and it was a type of MVP.

None ever gave a shit that this is 'official'. Players never cared about it, but cared a lot about Ballon D'Or. Ballon D'Or is the Nobel Price of football, FIFA award is like those awards of UN.
 

ADJUDICATOR

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Is there a Team of the Year award voted for by journalists?
 

Joga Bonito

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Synco said:
This view of Müller is completely understandable, as it's according to the almost universally shared image of him as a footballer. But the more I have watched and read about him, the more it became clear that he was a very complete player, whose abilities far outreached the typical striker role, and in some ways even a typical forward role.

That's a also a problem for the Ronaldo/Müller debate we have here, of course. When earlier in this thread the post-2012 ('poacher') version of Ronaldo is characterized like this...

... I think we have a serious misconception here about Müller in the first place, regarding both player type and individual quality. Again, understandibly, as it's according to how he is remembered today. I had that picture in my mind too, and was quite surprised when I started watching him in games.

I haven't figured him out completely yet, mostly because his approach to individual games varied so much. But this I am sure of:

Müller was never a limited or single-minded poacher, but kind of the prototype of a modern striker: a hyper-intelligent, flexible, roaming forward with supreme tactical awareness. His game had aspects of a false 9, often dropping off (and very deep at times), initialising quick combinations and arriving in the box with the flow of the attacking wave rather than waiting there for the ball. Most surprisingly, he is also one of the best defending strikers I have seen, especially when put in historical perspective.

He mixed these aspects of his game with more conventional interpretations of a striker role, and the specific mixture of these elements varied from game to game, sometimes quite a lot. The best explanation I have read for this was that he adapted to the setup and specific needs of his team and moulded his own role after whatever provided the best balance. (Another possibility is that his game got more variable as he got older, but as I said, I don't know yet.)

So my working hypothesis is that when he played with a dominant midfield playmaker like Overath (in the NT), his tendency was to stay further up. In games where there was no such midfielder (Bayern after 1974 for example, Beckenbauer mainly played in defence), he took over more playmaking duties. The footage I have seen so far seems to support this.

But whatever picture of Müller will form at the end, it's already clear to me that the cliché of him being an Inzaghi-type of poacher is wildly inaccurate. It reminds me of the prejudice against Roy Keane being a brute destroyer, when in fact he was a complete central midfielder, very good on the ball and tactically excellent. But he often gets reduced to his most recognizable quality - just like Müller and his goalscoring. The misconception towards Müller seems even worse, because it's more widespread and almost completely unchallenged, sports journalism inluded. My guess here is that some of his traits were so far ahead of his time that they simply went unrecognized by the public and never became part of his legacy.

------------------------

So here are some nice (and probably surprising) Müller moments I came across. Just random examples to give an idea what I'm talking about.

#1 Müller individually pressing three Dutch players, forcing their build up play back to the goalkeeper (almost) on his own (WC final 1974, at 22:50 of the video)


#2 My personal WTF moment: Müller falling back to the DM position after a Bayern turnover early in the 1975 EC final against Leeds, orchestrating the defensive movement of his teammates. The scene starts when Müller participates in build up from an OM position at the half way line (7:20); he then gradually moves back in defensive transition and reenters the picture centrally at Bayern's box at 7:40.


#3 Müller constantly seeking deeper areas in build up, transition and combination play in the final third in the 1976 EC semi-final against Real Madrid.

Almost needless to say that he scored in all of these three wins, a total of four out of the six goals for his teams. (#4) He also provided the one-touch, long range key pass for the first goal against Leeds, after combining forward from his defensive LCM position. (Where, just to reinforce the point about his versatility, he moved to after having blocked a pass at the right corner of his team's 16-yard box with a sliding tackle, moved to CDM afterwards and went on to make a defensive run towards his team's five yard box (left side). This whole sequence can be seen in the video of the game's second half from 24:50 to 26:30. Pre-assist is at 26:05)
[Has to be watched on Youtube]

-----------------------

So as a final thought, when I think of what kind of player Müller could be in today's game, I don't imagine him to be a more lethal version of Pippo Inzaghi, but rather a bastard of Luis Suarez and Thomas Müller, more prosaic than the former, but with a better shot conversion rate than either of them. Helluva pressing player, too.
Click to expand...

Good post, and if you haven't watched the 1972 Euros winning German side, I recommend their games, for some great football and at the very least to see Müller play as a false 9. His tactical nous and link-up play was sublime and something which most forwards didn't possess, let alone a tremendous goalscoring forward. Perhaps only van Basten comes close to him in that regard (if we are to take the top echelon of centre-forwards), despite being more technically gifted than Müller.
 
Pogba: I'm very proud of Griezmann

Samid

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Pogba: I'm very proud of Griezmann

Paul Pogba is certainly one of France's best. After captaining his side to FIFA U-20 World Cup glory in 2013, he has since stepped up to represent his country at the highest level, featuring at the 2014 FIFA World Cup™ in Brazil and reaching the final of UEFA EURO 2016 in his homeland. The 23-year-old has also represented Les Bleus admirably by becoming one of the world's standout midfielders at club level, winning four consecutive Serie A titles with Juventus before becoming the most expensive player on the planet with a multi-million pound move to Manchester United last year.

The imposing midfielder is emblematic of a new generation of French talent, perhaps the finest collection of players since the country hosted and won the 1998 World Cup, led by one of Pogba's idols Zinedine Zidane. Like his friend and France team-mate Antoine Griezmann, the Manchester United man was nominated for The Best FIFA Men's Player, making the shortlist of 23. The Atleti forward went one step further though, making it into the final three, alongside Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi. Pogba sat down with FIFA.com to discuss Grizou's chances of usurping Ronaldo and Messi, as well as discussing Zidane, a nominee for The Best FIFA Men's Coach Award, and giving his take on the FIFA Puskás Award finalists.

FIFA.com: Antoine Griezmann has been nominated for The Best Men’s Player award alongside Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi – how does it feel to see a French national team-mate, and friend, up for such an award?
Paul Pogba: I’m very proud of him. I know what he’s been through. When he arrived at Atletico Madrid the first year, he wasn’t playing all the time, he was on the bench. He talked to me, saying he was frustrated, that it was hard as he wasn’t playing. After that he kept working hard, and now he’s one of the three nominees for The Best award. I’m very happy for him, especially to see a French player doing so well. You can see the French players are going back to the basics, like our predecessors.

What would you say are Griezmann’s main qualities?
I think it’s his finishing. He wasn’t a striker before but now he scores so many goals. He’s very clever and he plays with his body. He’s not that big, he’s small, he’s fast and agile and he scores goals. That makes him Griezmann, the very good player that he is.

What’s he like in the dressing room?
You would be surprised! He’s one of the funniest guys I’ve met and played with. He is someone who always has fun in training, he works hard but with pleasure, as a game. We have fun. He sometimes goes in goal, doing some amazing saves, other times he’ll act like he’s Didier Drogba, holding the ball up.

You often show some impressive dance moves on social media, what about Antoine?
He’s got something! (laughs). He’s got some moves. But he won’t show it! He doesn’t want me to say it, he’s someone who doesn’t want to show his skills. He's a good dancer for sure.

As far as goal celebrations go, you seem to have made 'the dab' your own. What do you make of Griezmann's goal celebrations?
You know what? His ['Hotline Bling' goal celebration at EURO 2016] was special because he was the only one to do it. But my dab was more powerful around the world than his ‘Hotline Bling’ celebration. To be honest though, even I was doing his ‘Hotline Bling’! I think that shows it’s good... (laughs)

Messi and Ronaldo have shared the top award between them since 2008. When do you see an end to their dominance?
When they stop scoring goals, and they stop playing at the level that they are – or when you have other players who will play as well as them, or even better. Even if they are as good as Cristiano Ronaldo or Lionel Messi, the style, the way they play, the way they act off the pitch, it’s more than football now, I would say. When you have someone who can go above them, into that level on the pitch and outside the pitch that’s when it will happen. I don’t know when though because they’re still at the highest level.

This is football, I love seeing them play, I love seeing them score goals, they make me love football even more. When I see them, it makes me improve even more. It makes me want to try to catch them.

Who do you think can break up their hold on the award?
Of course, there are other players who can do that. We have Zlatan [Ibrahimovic] at Manchester United. Even he could do it. He’s 35 years old, but the way he’s playing, the way he’s scoring goals, you can see that he’s been in the top level for more than ten years. [Eden] Hazard, Neymar, [Luis] Suarez are doing so well and scoring goals, these are great players who – if they keep scoring – can do that. They need to keep scoring though, because that’s the case with Cristiano and Messi, whose performances are always on top.

You were on the shortlist of 23 again for The Best this year. How close do you feel you are to being in the final three?
I’m still far away. It’s good to be in the top ten, five or three but that’s not really what I’m about. If I’m in the top three, I want to be the number one – so that means I’m still very far away. I have to keep working hard and playing well because I don’t like to be second, or third, they’re the worst places to be. You would be proud, of course, because it means you’re on the way, but you want to finish first.

Another Frenchman, Zinedine Zidane, is nominated for The Best Men’s Coach this year. How much of an idol was he for you growing up?
I admire him a lot. When I was younger, I was watching his videos, the way he was playing. I love big players, but there are some players who have something extra. On the pitch you have 11 players, in the squad, 22, and you see only one or two. You always see him doing something special, the way he’s playing, it’s beautiful to see. Ronaldinho was the same, these are players who have something special – he has that. I was always watching him. The ball was in one place but I was always looking for Zidane.

You were just five years old when he scored his headers in the 1998 World Cup Final against Brazil. How much of that tournament do you remember?
Zidane was Zidane. He saved France. Everybody was talking about Zidane. But we don’t often speak about [Fabien] Barthez, and [Lilian] Thuram’s goals [in the semi-final against Croatia]. They had a very good team, they were complete. We speak about Zidane because he scored those two headers in the final. To be honest, I would applaud the other players as well.

He once said that you could “become one of the best players ever.” How does it feel to receive praise like that from him?
When somebody like that says something like that, you flop and go down to the floor! You have to be positive and take it in a good way. You have to be focused because if you go in the other direction, backwards, people will say: “ah, now, you see – people were speaking about him in that way, and look where he is.” You have to be focused, know where you want to go. I have my goals, and I won’t stop until I reach them.

You’ve scored some spectacular goals in your time, so you’re well-placed to give your judgement. Which of the three FIFA Puskás Award finalists would you vote for, and why?
Because she’s playing at U-17 level, scoring such a beautiful solo goal, I would say my vote would go to Daniuska [Rodriguez]. The free kick, and the overhead kick are both brilliant, but I’d go for hers.

Are there any goals you’ve scored which you think are worthy of being nominated for the Puskàs Award?
If it was the Pogba Award, instead of the Puskas Award? (laughs). Third place, because of the technique, would be my volley against Swansea. This is because of the technique, it wasn’t easy (laughs). (Editor's note: in Manchester United's 3-1 win against Swansea, 6 November 2016). Second one, against Napoli for Juventus. I missed my touch first, the ball went high and I smashed it in (Editor's note: in a 3-0 win against Napoli, 10 November 2013). The first one, my favourite, was against Udinese. Look it up! (Editor's note: in a 4-0 win, 19 January 2013).
Click to expand...
:drool: Sign him up.
 

SirAF

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Good interview that, PP got a good head on his shoulders.
 
FIFPro World XI

Samid

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FIFPro World XI

Neuer
Alves - Pique - Ramos - Marcelo
Modric - Kroos - Iniesta
Messi - Suarez - Ronaldo

 

Zoo

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Bring the Griezmann's to Manchester please Jose.
 

Gatti33

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Pique made the team!!! Fecking Pique! All three of juv. Centre backs are better than him. Not to mention boeteng and hummels. But hey he plays for Barca so that an automatic selection.
 

Samid

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The final shortlist for the FIFA Fan Award has been revealed. The new award, recognising an outstanding fan moment or gesture from the calendar year 2016, can be awarded to any fan or fan group regardless of league level, gender or nationality. An experts' panel composed of Zvonimir Boban, Marta, Gabriel Batistuta and Vladimir Petkovic, selected the three top moments from the year, with the vote open until the day of the ceremony in Zurich on 9 January. The winner will be revealed at the ceremony, shortly after the vote closes.
Click to expand...
Liverpool winning an online poll. Who could have possibly imagined?
 
Last edited:

VanGaalEra

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Absolute joke the Iceland fans didn't win it, but hey two fanbases on an online poll was always going to win it.
 

Baxter

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The ADO fans were brilliant too. fecking half and half knobs :lol:
 

SirAF

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Well deserved to Ranieri. Now let's get to the big one ffs :lol: This stuff is always such a bore.
 

Brightonian

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Most unjustifiably Spain-centric World XI of all time, and that's saying something. Alves, Pique, Marcelo, Iniesta and arguably Kroos are all in there because of who they play for, not how they play. Plus Neuer gets his default spot as ever.
 
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