IMO people should compare Ronaldo's goalscoring record from 2007 onwards. He had left RM behind and become officially a forward
Ballon d'Or 2016
- Thread starter Samid
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Ever heard of Alessandro Del Piero? He was easily better than him that season. Zidane won the award on the back of two goals in the final - he wasn't even France's best player in that WC.
Yes, that's fair, and I already agreed with that. The second column was my attempt to say pretty much this. But the original statement (not much between them statistically) was for their career record and Gio answered to that, particularly concerning the international record.
At Real Madrid, unless it's style and elegance that get your juices flowing, I think Ronaldo trumps Zidane quite comfortably.
Zidane was part of a small group of players who were the best in the world around 1997 to 2002. Ronaldo was obviously top dog from 1996 to 1998, then Rivaldo was clearly the standout from 1998 to 2000, then it becomes a bit trickier to separate between Zidane, Figo and Rivaldo up until 2002. Then the next generation (Ronaldinho, Henry, Nedved, Shevchenko) took over.
Del Piero should have won the BdO in 98, he was sensational both in the league and the CL (10 goals in the competition) and was unfortunate to lose that final to Madrid because of injury. That Madrid team wasn't better than that Juve team.
Yeah, I wouldn't argue with that. Obviously the injury and his relative lack of impact at the World Cup counted against him at a time when the World Cup was king in determining the destination of the Ballon.
Heh, ain't that the truth.
Best to stay away from the madness, if you ask me. Which is a shame, because there's plenty of genuinely interesting things to discuss within the Ronaldo versus X (usually Messi) context. Is the sort of player he is, stylistically (or in terms of skill set), underappreciated compared to players who are seen as more "cerebral" (the R vs M debate often gets into brain versus brawn territory, to exaggerate slightly) and/or more creative, and/or more naturally talented, etc?
Interesting enough question, I think. But discussing general points with people who worship an idol blindly is usually pointless.
Del Piero was better in the first half of the season, Zidane was better in the second half, but neither was the best in the world. That was Ronaldo. And that is my point.
@Gio nah, not really. After Ronnie's injury, Zidane was the best player in the world. Not always the most consistent, but if you asked anybody from 1999 until 2004 who was the best player in the world, they'd answer Zidane. Because regardless of consistency, everybody knew nobody else could play at the same level as him, barring maybe Ronaldo in 2002 and 2003(and Ronaldo was the most naturally talented player of all time)
@Culero best between who?
You're right of course, but I think the discussion here is quite good, especially compared to other threads. Certainly some interesting stuff on the last few pages.
Figo could and did, Rivaldo could at his best, during that period only of course. Overall Zidane performed at a higher level for a longer period.
None of those players best matched Zidane's best. Better?
Messi is like two steps ahead of Ronaldo and Ronaldo is ahead of the rest in the last decade. It's just watching them play. There's not much secret. And it's what the vast majority thinks.
Even more, not many people consider this award should've gone to Ronaldo. This one, and Messi's 2010 could've gone to other players and nobody could've said anything.
Even more, not many people consider this award should've gone to Ronaldo. This one, and Messi's 2010 could've gone to other players and nobody could've said anything.
Messi and Cristiano, in a neutral environment forget what teams they play for and what they have achieved. Just base on their peak ability/talent.
Have you not read any of my posts? I don't blame you
But anyways, Messi is the 3rd greatest player of all time. Cristiano Ronaldo is not one of the 3 greatest players of all time.
I'll add that if the golden ball truly was based on individual performance alone, that is looking at it in a vacuum, disregarding context, Messi should and would have won the last 8 GBs straight
But anyways, Messi is the 3rd greatest player of all time. Cristiano Ronaldo is not one of the 3 greatest players of all time.
I'll add that if the golden ball truly was based on individual performance alone, that is looking at it in a vacuum, disregarding context, Messi should and would have won the last 8 GBs straight
How come with regards to Ronaldo, people disregard the skill and dribbling ability he displayed up until around 2010?
We praise the likes of Scholes for being able to develop from being a goalscoring midfielder to a deep lying playmaker whereas, with Ronaldo, who managed to combine flair and goals to devastating affect at certain times in his career, we disregard him as a pure goalscorer?
Seems unfair to me and serves as another example of people trying to downplay his abilities due to their dislike of the guy.
We praise the likes of Scholes for being able to develop from being a goalscoring midfielder to a deep lying playmaker whereas, with Ronaldo, who managed to combine flair and goals to devastating affect at certain times in his career, we disregard him as a pure goalscorer?
Seems unfair to me and serves as another example of people trying to downplay his abilities due to their dislike of the guy.
Surprise surprise.
They should just give him next years one too. Probably save some time.
They should just give him next years one too. Probably save some time.
Yes but playing for less dominant team is a big factor which would heavily affect no. of trophies/goals won/scored. What Ronaldo achieved for Portugal over the years, I don't think anyone could top that if they played for same Portugal team.
Sure if you are looking at ability and completely ignoring the actual performances. Same goes for your Zidane was the best in the world for the next 5 years.
Exactly. This whole Messi-Ronaldo domination has gotten boring.Surprise surprise.
They should just give him next years one too. Probably save some time.
I thought Suárez should have won.
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Back then the criteria could be different, but that's why I did also count their runners-up finish in individual awards (Ballon D'or). In this case Muller finished among top 3 four times, while Ronaldo finished among top 2 nine times, I would still give Ronaldo a big win over Muller there.
But yes Muller has a more impressive international career, especially in WC, so I wouldn't disagree if someone give Muller a win instead. I give it a tie only because Ronaldo played for an inferior team but still managed to achieve something "comparable" to what Muller did.
For assist stats, I have no idea how well Muller did there, as there isn't any official record back then. My knowledge is Muller being renowned as poacher/goalscorer rather than playmaker etc so presumably he probably isn't one of the top assist in Europe during his time. I could be wrong on that though.
To be honest I am amazed that this version of Ronaldo beats Messi some years. He was better and more varied in his mid twenties 24-29. Its crazy to think he left us when he was 24. I don't think a few years ago that Messi was 2 steps ahead. Maybe 10% better. He is a better overall player to this CF Ronaldo but Ronaldo is such a great goal scorer that he can still inspire Real to greatness
That is what I've been saying, but no, Ronaldo wasn't just the best player in the world, he was also the best performer in 1998.
@OL29 I think it's only the current version of cristiano that people "disregard" as a pure goalscorer. That, and people going on about his goalscoring stats
@Stacks completely agree
BTW: i'm fairly sure gerd muller got quite a few assists. Assists after all are merely the final pass before the goal. Assist =/= chance creation. The two may overlap, but are not the same thing at all
He played 27 games in the entire year.
Zidane's problem was consistency though. If he hit those extraordinary heights that he did at Euro 2000 more regularly, then I'd have agreed that he was the standout of the era. But he didn't. He often under-performed in the bread and butter of domestic football and at both Juventus and to a lesser extent at Real wasn't very productive, especially compared to the likes of Ronaldo and Rivaldo. Obviously he played deeper, but if you want to elevate him above these guys, then those are the standards he didn't really attain on a regular basis. One thing in his defence though is that it was harder to be consistent when there were no superteams racking up 90 points and 100 goals a season, and instead it was a struggle to get to 60-70 points and that was normally good enough to get you in the hunt for a league title.
Because Del Piero played many more games than that?
@Gio as an Italian, Zidane was by far the serie A's best player from the moment Ronaldo got injured until he left. Pretty consistently. He was also the best player of La liga in 2001-2002 and 2002-2003(this one tied with ronaldo)
While he was impressive in 2004 and good in 2006, compared to the likes of Muller he's not done a lot at the five tournaments since then until winning the last one. Whereas Muller has a 100% hit rate at major tournaments, banging in 10 goals in 1970, scoring in the semis and final of 1972 and 1974, and winning both.
He led his team to a Serie A win and a CL final scoring 10 goals in the competition in the process. Big Ronaldo is my all time favourite player but he got outperformed but Alessandro that year, sorry.
Hypothetically, if we put Cristiano in that West Germany team and Gerd in the Portugal teams Cristiano has participated in, how different do you think the outcomes would have been?
I think anyone who actually watched La Liga in 90s/early 2000s knows that Rivaldo was better and consistent league player.
As for the best player of that time, it was between several players, like someone said. Zidane was one of them, with most dominant presence and charisma.
As for the best player of that time, it was between several players, like someone said. Zidane was one of them, with most dominant presence and charisma.
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I don't know who's been better between Messi and Ronaldo. I don't think anyone does. It usually comes down to 'I'm a connoisseur so I understand what you couldn't possibly'. It's the Beatles vs the Stones.
He was better when Messi was injured. That's all.
Del Bosque: Ronaldo's the greatest Real player.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...rids-greatest-ever-player-vicente-del-bosque/
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...rids-greatest-ever-player-vicente-del-bosque/
Juventus fan, eh? Got it
Huh?
Only a juventus fan would say that. Del Piero didn't lead them to the title, Moggi, Giraudo and Gianni&Umberto Agnelli did.
You've completely lost me there mate.
I support only one football team in the world, and you can find the name of that team on the top of this website. No idea what you're on about with the rest.
No worries
Massive Oasis fan Del Piero. So much so that he took Noel Gallagher to the 2006 WC Final with him and to the team celebrations after.