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Yes, that's exactly what I suggested a few days ago where you suggested this thread was enough. Probably can't do any harm. If it remains unused then the worst that's happened is there is another thread.We could always start a religion discussion thread where various believers have grown up discussions about their beliefs without annoying atheist hipsters chiming in. Sort of like the Ronaldo (WUMs will be thread banned) thread.
Dealt.
That's before it turned into a shitshow. Feel free to start one.Yes, that's exactly what I suggested a few days ago where you suggested this thread was enough. Probably can't do any harm. If it remains unused then the worst that's happened is there is another thread.
Sikhs believe in violence.
Yes Sikhism does advocate violence, but ONLY as a last resort when all other alternative means have failed. Sikhism doesn't allow violence for the spreading of the Sikh religion or conquest, only for preservation of our rights to be Sikhs, and the rights of others.Aside from Jainism the other 2 you mentioned can and have justified violence.
Don't worry about it! He didn't expose anything, and hasn't discouraged me at all. I see that a there is a new thread for religious discussion and so I will move my attention there.@Silva I understand your need/desire/quest to denounce all religions for the 'fakes that they are'. But could you respect us as humans too and give us some breathing space to discuss actual religions. @AXVnee7 is helping me understand Sikhism more than I have been able to elsewhere. If you carry on as it is the religious folk will once again abandon this thread and Raoul will be wondering why this thread isn't good enough to discuss religion, ad infinitum.
Most of the metal I listen to have religious or mythological themes without being religious music apart from some of the genuinely satanic black metal. I can appreciate the themes and stories even though I know the religions are bogus.How do the atheists and agnostics amongst us feel about things like movies based on bible stories, religious music, etc?
See I am not what you would call religious at all, but I do enjoy some movies like Heston version of The Ten Commandments, the source of the story does not bother me, I mean what is the difference between that and say any other movie based on a book or short story.
Also, some years ago local morning drive time talk host on the Classic Rock station (big time lefty, hippie from the sixties) had some big singer from the 60's (might have been David Crosby) and they got talking about what type of music Crosby was listening to lately and he said a lot of religious music, hymns, chants, old timey Monk stuff, which got our local talk show host in a tizzy because he thought Crosby was an atheist. Crosby just explained he viewed it like any other music, it just tells a story regardless of the source.
In the west the vast majority of the best creative minds in the CE have been inspired to some extent by Christianity. I can't imagine not admiring Michael Angelo, Beethoven, Tolstoy or even Van Morrison because of their beliefs. Until Darwin provided a credible alternative, most scientists and artists were religiously inspired.How do the atheists and agnostics amongst us feel about things like movies based on bible stories, religious music, etc?
See I am not what you would call religious at all, but I do enjoy some movies like Heston version of The Ten Commandments, the source of the story does not bother me, I mean what is the difference between that and say any other movie based on a book or short story.
Also, some years ago local morning drive time talk host on the Classic Rock station (big time lefty, hippie from the sixties) had some big singer from the 60's (might have been David Crosby) and they got talking about what type of music Crosby was listening to lately and he said a lot of religious music, hymns, chants, old timey Monk stuff, which got our local talk show host in a tizzy because he thought Crosby was an atheist. Crosby just explained he viewed it like any other music, it just tells a story regardless of the source.
The same way I feel about films based on any sort of fiction really. Why would I care where a story comes from?How do the atheists and agnostics amongst us feel about things like movies based on bible stories, religious music, etc?
See I am not what you would call religious at all, but I do enjoy some movies like Heston version of The Ten Commandments, the source of the story does not bother me, I mean what is the difference between that and say any other movie based on a book or short story.
Also, some years ago local morning drive time talk host on the Classic Rock station (big time lefty, hippie from the sixties) had some big singer from the 60's (might have been David Crosby) and they got talking about what type of music Crosby was listening to lately and he said a lot of religious music, hymns, chants, old timey Monk stuff, which got our local talk show host in a tizzy because he thought Crosby was an atheist. Crosby just explained he viewed it like any other music, it just tells a story regardless of the source.
Yeah, atheists reaction to religion is contemporary art is "is it any good?", and it's usually religious folk who react badly to it, whether it's something like Jerry Springer the Opera taking the piss, or Noah offering a true to the source depiction.The same way I feel about films based on any sort of fiction really. Why would I care where a story comes from?
Plus a lot of music has religious influence too. The likes of Leonard Cohen are steeped in it. Plus religious imagery can be very effective anyway. It's dramatic stuff.
True, not to mention the images of Christ on the cross. Caravaggio is the alternativeIn some cases the Church had a demonstrably bad effect on art - all babies in paintings being Jesus (as a grown man) for a long while is probably the most disconcerting of those effects.
Yes, the most popular of them did take up the swords. Ashoka, Tang Dynasty in China, most of SE Asia.
Sikhs believe in violence.
What I mean by "take up the sword" is to engage in holy war... (Crusade/Jihad)Aside from Jainism the other 2 you mentioned can and have justified violence.
Can't speak for the other two, but Buddhism does have a concept of taking up arms against evil to protect the faith, which as you can see can be used as justification for oppression of other faiths or offensive wars.What I mean by "take up the sword" is to engage in holy war... (Crusade/Jihad)
Do those faiths have a concept of divinely ordained warfare or have they had adherents who fought wars?
Interesting. I'd never read that about Buddhism.Can't speak for the other two, but Buddhism does have a concept of taking up arms against evil to protect the faith, which as you can see can be used as justification for oppression of other faiths or offensive wars.
You can even say most if not all mainstream religions have the same concept. Can't imagine any completely pacifist religion lasting and thriving.
find this very aptI couldn't speak for other religions but as a Muslim I am extremely excited about the scientific strides being made in this day and age, and in the past. Even the deepest of scientific understanding, in fact the deeper the better. The fact I believe in God behind it all doesn't change anything that we are finding out scientifically nor is it conflicting or clouding in any of the major fields.
"The moment you claim a truth claim, you are violating determinism".find this very apt
The age of the safe space is upon us.This thread is going to be shit now that the mad religious folk have a place of sanctuary in a thread of their own. We should have some sort of crusade into the new thread to spread our message.
ThisThis thread is going to be shit now that the mad religious folk have a place of sanctuary in a thread of their own. We should have some sort of crusade into the new thread to spread our message.
Buddhist's don't promote violence. Doesn't matter what you do or what you do it for - the consequences will be the same. Since Karma is believed to be a law; even if the Buddha killed someone then he would deal with the consequences in his life or another life.
Right now the Buddha's cousin for example is in a sort of hell purely for trying yet not succeeding to kill the Buddha!
Monks for example would sacrifice their future goodness & all they have done to protect their religion. It's kind of a person decision rather than anything in scriptures.
I think he says "Has anyone ever provided proof of God's inexistence ?"find this very apt
Yes, SGPC is the bastion of selfless service. /sExcept in the case of Sikhism, this is simply not true. I'd say generosity and service to others is the defining feature of the religion. You'd know this if you actually read @AXVnee7's posts instead of belligerently pouncing on one small feature of the religion.
There are two sides to this. Hitchens et al argue that morality pre dates for example Christianity by pointing to the story of the good Samaritan who we know is not a Christian. Christians reply that God made this person that way regardless of whether or not he is a Christian.I'd disagree. The defining feature of religion is to promote your opinion over others.
Humanity is the same.
Kindness is knowing what others need and realizing this and even animals have this. I don't think my dog or cat is a part of any religion yet my dog looks after my cat.
Well that's it in a nut shell. It's basically bullyin. My belief over yours. Your wrong so I'm going to kill you.I think the concept of 'god' was simply our way of explaining that we can't explain things and humans have that undying need to find an answer to everything to believe it.
Perhaps way back when, whoever was influential with knowledge simply suggested the concept as a way of putting people at peace with the thought that we cannot and will probably never be able to explain our reason for being, or even that we simply don't have one and we're here just because (which is sadly the most uncomfortable but realistic reason I think).
I haven't delved anywhere remotely deep enough into the history of organised religion or even just of our existence to know if there is evidence that suggests I'm right but I'm comfortable in it being a possible explanation.
Everything since, all the mythical things described in the Bible or other religious texts, all the wars fought in the name of religion, all of the extra stuff added in to appeal in a marketing way as a business that you buy into is simply that, cynical human marketing ploys.
Isn't that Russell's Teapot?I think he says "Has anyone ever provided proof of God's inexistence ?"
How could that be done ? Surely it's up to those who claim something is true or exists to prove it ? If they can't, then what can be affirmed without proof can be denied without proof, can't it ? Nobody has ever disproved gnomes either.
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I'm afraid I don't know.Isn't that Russell's Teapot?