Upgrading our RW/RM

[Mani]

If Reports are to be belived we are going to buy griezman . How will a 433 work with grieman zlatan and martial and mkh who all deserves to start.

That can work when Pogba is played in two men MF,I'm unsure of whats in Jose mind in regards to Pogba on how he's looking at Pogba in the future.

Martial------------Ibra-----------Griezmann

--Pogba------------------------Miki---------

---------------Herrera/new CM-------------

 

[Synco]

If Reports are to be belived we are going to buy griezman . How will a 433 work with grieman zlatan and martial and mkh who all deserves to start.

I can imagine them in a 4-4-2 like France. With Mkhitaryan on the wing and Martial taking over the starting spot from Zlatan over time. Pogba looked very comfortable in that system too in the last few NT games.

We are playing too narrow at the movement and Valencia is only source of stretching it on the right wing and he's not getting any young,in that case we badly need a wing back or right winger.We already got Ibra and presence in the centre is really good atm, Rashford is still young and can carry on from Ibra once he quits again that depends on how well Rashford develops,too me playing through the centre wouldn't be the immediately concern, I would strength my wide men defence and MF.

I guess one additional problem is playing a rather defensive left back; A fit Shaw (or someone else, if Mou doesn't trust him) and a better backup/contender for Valencia's spot than Darmian, and it might look better immediately. (I'm not even sure if it looks that bad, but I go with your impression here.) But sure, there are many possible changes/tweaks to adress such a problem.

 

[prtk0811]

We are playing too narrow at the movement and Valencia is only source of stretching it on the right wing and he's not getting any young,in that case we badly need a wing back or right winger.We already got Ibra and presence in the centre is really good atm, Rashford is still young and can carry on from Ibra once he quits again that depends on how well Rashford develops,too me playing through the centre wouldn't be the immediately concern, I would strength my wide men defence and MF

I Hope Mourinho directs Darmian to hit the gym and increase his workrate gives him a try at right back too or TFM to free up Antonio valancia from right back to right wing so we can play Mkh in center as well . Valencia still beats his man one on one and his low crosses are deadly, while he stretches the defense as well Laterally and is a great counter attacker

 

[Mani]

I Hope Mourinho directs Darmian to hit the gym and increase his workrate gives him a try at right back too or TFM to free up Antonio valancia from right back to right wing so we can play Mkh in center as well . Valencia still beats his man one on one and his low crosses are deadly, while he stretches the defense as well Laterally and is a great counter attacker

I think Darmian hold us a bit and he can be back up men and not the one lead us.we need to upgrade that RB spot at sometime.

 

[VP89]

If we do purchase a wide option, we should go for an actual winger rather than one of those nimble players who love to drift infield.

Thing is, there aren't any more out-and-out wingers. Just full backs. 442 is dead.

 

[Mani]

I can imagine them in a 4-4-2 like France. With Mkhitaryan on the wing and Martial taking over the starting spot from Zlatan over time. Pogba looked very comfortable in that system too in the last few NT games.

I guess one additional problem is playing a rather defensive left back; A fit Shaw (or someone else, if Mou doesn't trust him) and a better backup/contender for Valencia's spot than Darmian, and it might look better immediately. (I'm not even sure if it looks that bad, but I go with your impression here.) But sure, there are many possible changes/tweaks to adress such a problem.

Agree there with the defensive LB,Shaw got great attacking intend but with Shaw we feel like less insured at that LB,yep he's still young and learning.Also if Martial could manage to share the defensive responsibility,more than what he does now as we would have a better left coridor.,This is also one of the reason why Jose keep picking Rashford for LW where Rashford put in better swift compared to Martial.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

And the rest.

What, the addons?

The maximum fee they'll pay, all addons included, are supposed to be around 45 million £.

Compare that to fees payed for Martial, De Bruyne, Sterling, Sané and Stones for example, a few of them who cost around or more than 40 million £ up front and it's not really a shitload. Perhaps for Dortmund it is, but it'll be a drop in the ocean of what they'll get for him if he manages to activate those clauses for them and the bigger clubs come circling.

 

[RedMaestro]

I remember Klopp being interested in Zac Efron look-alike Kevin Volland before joining Leverkusen from Hoffenheim. Anyone know if he's developed?

 

[DrRodo]

Ousmane Dembele has "typical MU singing" written all over his face and underwear

 

[JohnnyLaw]

I feel like the Ousmane Dembele mentions are a season late.. Clearly not going to happen this summer.

Not nearly as annoying as the the constant mentions of Weigl in the 'Carrick replacement'- threads were though.

 

[spenzo]

So annoying that we couldn't get/didn't go for Dembele last summer. Almost feel like we should hold out for another season after this and go for him the following summer but I know that's silly.

 

[DrRodo]

I feel like the Ousmane Dembele mentions are a season late.. Clearly not going to happen this summer.

Not nearly as annoying as the the constant mentions of Weigl in the 'Carrick replacement'- threads were though.

Whats so annoying of ppl stating something possible? Weigl would be an excellent Carrick replacement

 

[JohnnyLaw]

Whats so annoying of ppl stating something possible? Weigl would be an excellent Carrick replacement

It's annoying because it's not possible. Carrick is pretty much done already at this point and this guy just signed his second long term contract with a club that's become notoriously difficult to deal with. I doubt they'd entertain an offer, even one of Pogba-esque levels.

 

[Dave46]

It's annoying because it's not possible. Carrick is pretty much done already at this point and this guy just signed his second long term contract with a club that's become notoriously difficult to deal with. I doubt they'd entertain an offer, even one of Pogba-esque levels.

Divide that by 2 and Dortmund still would be interested. 50 mil for Weigl? Watzke will sell him.

 

[SirMattBugsby]

Reports of Mourinho going after Willian. Should we get him?

 

[Mani]

Reports of Mourinho going after Willian. Should we get him?

I don't see any recent reports linking us with him, but he would be good addition in case we are after him.

 

[Mike09]

Reports of Mourinho going after Willian. Should we get him?

I hope not. He's not that good. I don't rate him, just a player with pace and dribbling ability without brain and vision. He won't be an upgrade at all in my opinion.

 

[SirMattBugsby]

I hope not. He's not that good. I don't rate him, just a player with pace and dribbling ability without brain and vision. He won't be an upgrade at all in my opinion.

While I agree with you, signings like Willian are a distinct possibility under Mourinho, especially if we play Mkhi central or on the left wing. We do need someone with pace on the right who can provide width and stretch play.

Besides, Willian is a team player and follows the manager's instructions to a T. If the manager feels a lack of such players in attack (which I suspect there is), he might go for him.

 

[RedMaestro]

I hope not. He's not that good. I don't rate him, just a player with pace and dribbling ability without brain and vision. He won't be an upgrade at all in my opinion.

Maybe that's why Mourinho likes him? He does what he's told...

 

[Zoo]

Willian has a brain and is a good player. I'd happily take him if he wants a change.

 

[Mike09]

Maybe that's why Mourinho likes him? He does what he's told...

Jose likes him because of his work rate. Watch him play every game and you will realise that he doesn't know how to pass the ball to his teammates when they make great run. He's obsessed with beating his men rather than make a through ball or pass. And his dribbling skills is nowhere near Hazard or Robben's level

 

[Kush]

So is Mkhitaryan not a RW/RM now because he put in a good performance while playing through the middle? I don't understand why do people get so fixated in regards to player position as soon as they put in a great performance playing in a different position. Same thing is posted over and over again in Pogba thread.

I hope folks on here haven't forgotten that we've spent outrageous amount of money on big talents in Martial and Mkhitaryan in last 2 summer windows. Assuming we sign Griezmann and keep Ibra (which is very likely as Mou said in press conference) how do people adjust all of these players along with a shiny new RW/RM in Douglas Costa/Bernardo Silva while maintaining any sort of balance in the team? That's not even taking into the Pogba conundrum of playing in a midfield 2.

I do think we can improve upon the wide options we have available on the bench (Mata, Rashford, Young and Lingard) but a goalscorer which can take some burden off Ibra is a more crucial signing in the summer (Griezmann?) than a RW/RM.

 

[Mike09]

While I agree with you, signings like Willian are a distinct possibility under Mourinho, especially if we play Mkhi central or on the left wing. We do need someone with pace on the right who can provide width and stretch play.

Besides, Willian is a team player and follows the manager's instructions to a T. If the manager feels a lack of such players in attack (which I suspect there is), he might go for him.

Not really. He has a good work rate but he's not a team player who likes to make a pass to his teammates. He's pretty much similar to Robben but with a good work rate, worse technical attribute and worse end product than Robben.

 

[Dave46]

Willian and Miki did great together at Shakhtar, but I would rather see Griezmann, Sanchez or Douglas here.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I Hope Mourinho directs Darmian to hit the gym and increase his workrate gives him a try at right back too or TFM to free up Antonio valancia from right back to right wing so we can play Mkh in center as well . Valencia still beats his man one on one and his low crosses are deadly, while he stretches the defense as well Laterally and is a great counter attacker

If only that were true. Below I have summed up Tony V's two patterns of play for you:

Receive ball on RW, defender showing him inside.
Stop, turn, pass lateral/backwards.
Retake position out wide.

Receive ball on RW, defender showing him outside.
Stop, run like Forest Gump, cross, hit the first defender.
Run back to RB.

This just reminds me that we have an issue team-wide with crossing. Either we bullet the ball in and it has no accuracy/goes straight out or we send in those loopy howitzers and hope Ibra can do something magical.

 

[Grunge]

I'm unsure of whats in Jose mind in regards to Pogba on how he's looking at Pogba in the future.

Some great speculation in this thread as to who where and when and many good ideas in terms of possible imports imho.
But @Mani's statement is key. Whats in Jose mind?

Jose inherited a) a handful of good youngsters, b) a couple of experienced & "quality" senior citizens, c) some decent, reliable squad players to which he
has added a) a strong young CB, b) an aging superstar CF and c) two predominantly right-sided "midfield / attack-minded" players in Pogba & Mkhi.

Jose has brought a mentality that he has expressed as a desire to win everything and to do it the "Man Utd way!"

The players he's brought in are now more or less bedded into his 1st - 11 and also part of "alternative 11's". He has carefully & dare I say skillfully, rotated the rest of the squad in and around them, with greater or lesser success, but all (virtually) unbeaten for ages!

With the many combinations Jose's tried or is trying, all seem to have in common a willingness and ability to make & create scoring chances. Some stats specialist can tell us exactly how many, but I believe we're in the bottom 3 for converting good chances and yet among the top in terms of chances created?

If our scoring percentage was even average or slightly better than that, we'd be in real contention for the title (as well as everything else) despite all the supposed shortcomings the team has!

What's my point?
Well, first credit Jose for doing an amazing job with what he's got to work with! We're still in four competitions (assuming top 4 is a "competition) and this, as mentioned, despite all our supposed "weak links" and under-performing talent?

A finished chance here or there would have made a world of difference to our league position!

But even if we were sitting in second;

Darmian would still be just an "Okay" defender, Shaw would still be "struggling for confidence", Blind would still be "too slow", Jones would still be "too injury prone", Smalling would still "not be able to pass it well enough", Rojo would still be "too rash", Valencia would still "have to cross better", Martial, Rashford (& others including Lingard) would all still "have to mature", Rooney would still be "too fat" & even Ibra, like Carrick, would still be too "old" ... and yet here we are in a Wembley Final, the last 16 in the FA Cup, the last 32 in a Euro competition and i with a good shout for 3rd or 4th place!

Our arguments about who we should buy for the left or right side is moot for me. To win everything (our goal under Jose) we need to be many things & play in many ways. Mainly we just need a handful (6 tops) of players who are just a "little better" than some of the ones we have now, and not necessarily superstars who will cost too much or just not leaving where hey are! Or maybe keep working with some of the ones we have and help them get better ... which I think Jose & his coaches will do!

To win the premiership needs one approach, while winning the Champions League requires another. Something SAF you may remember, found extremely challenging and a puzzle he regrets to this day not being able to solve consistently!

Jose is planning to build a squad that can/will win everything! To accomplish that he needs a truly deep squad, not a small very expensive one. But what I think he understands is that he needs to build two teams with potentially two distinct styles; One that includes real width and pace and another more narrow from which to mount counter attacks. Yes Griezmann looks like a cert but I think there's a half dozen players, more like Bailly in the £30M range who Jose will have his eye on to upgrade his squad not completely revamp it.

 

[notcool]

Below I have summed up Tony V's two patterns of play for you:

Receive ball on RW, defender showing him inside.
Stop, turn, pass lateral/backwards.
Retake position out wide.

Receive ball on RW, defender showing him outside.
Stop, run like Forest Gump, cross, hit the first defender.
Run back to RB.

He did really well against Leicester for Ibra's goal. The fullback (and winger who was helping out) showed him down the outside but he managed to squeeze it in before going round the defender. This meant that Huth couldn't get to the ball because he was in a position to intercept a cut-back from the byline and that Morgan was a few metres away from Ibra, which is what made Morgan slide to block the shot (if he was a bit closer to Ibra he wouldn't have had to go to ground). Valencia's cross was a big part in that goal.

 

[DannyCAFC]

What, the addons?

The maximum fee they'll pay, all addons included, are supposed to be around 45 million £.

Compare that to fees payed for Martial, De Bruyne, Sterling, Sané and Stones for example, a few of them who cost around or more than 40 million £ up front and it's not really a shitload. Perhaps for Dortmund it is, but it'll be a drop in the ocean of what they'll get for him if he manages to activate those clauses for them and the bigger clubs come circling.

Not necessary saying it is, just saying your initial post was misleading.

 

[rpg]

19 yrs old Dembele have looked like the real deal so far. His awareness and passing is very mature. Wouldnt mind swapping Martial plus 30 mln for him.

 

[Unlikely lad]

19 yrs old Dembele have looked like the real deal so far. His awareness and passing is very mature. Wouldnt mind swapping Martial plus 30 mln for him.

 

[Steven Seagull]

19 yrs old Dembele have looked like the real deal so far. His awareness and passing is very mature. Wouldnt mind swapping Martial plus 30 mln for him.

Make it £50m

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

19 yrs old Dembele have looked like the real deal so far. His awareness and passing is very mature. Wouldnt mind swapping Martial plus 30 mln for him.

I'm a big fan of Dembele but surely you cannot be serious?

 

[Bwuk]

Can Douglas Costa play on the right? By accounts it sounds like he's fallen out with the Bayern president.

 

[CM]

Yeah but from what I've heard he hasn't been playing well at all for Bayern this season.

 

[SomeRandomPerson]

Can Douglas Costa play on the right? By accounts it sounds like he's fallen out with the Bayern president.

He started the season under Pep playing wide right, with Coman often playing wide left. Eventually Pep realised both are better playing on the opposite flank. His best games for Bayern were played wide left. That said, was excellent on the right too under Pep.

Haven't really watched much Bundesliga at all this season but his performances have apparently fallen off a cliff. To be fair to him though, by all accounts Bayern's style of play in gerneral has been disappointing this season. Maybe playing under Mourinho is just what he needs?

As I've said earlier in the thread, a fit-and-firing (fingers crossed) Martial alongside Mkhitaryan as the #10 and Costa wide right has potential to be the most exciting United team since Tevez-Rooney-Ronaldo.

 

[Shinehead Dred]

Some great speculation in this thread as to who where and when and many good ideas in terms of possible imports imho.
But @Mani's statement is key. Whats in Jose mind?

Jose inherited a) a handful of good youngsters, b) a couple of experienced & "quality" senior citizens, c) some decent, reliable squad players to which he
has added a) a strong young CB, b) an aging superstar CF and c) two predominantly right-sided "midfield / attack-minded" players in Pogba & Mkhi.

Jose has brought a mentality that he has expressed as a desire to win everything and to do it the "Man Utd way!"

The players he's brought in are now more or less bedded into his 1st - 11 and also part of "alternative 11's". He has carefully & dare I say skillfully, rotated the rest of the squad in and around them, with greater or lesser success, but all (virtually) unbeaten for ages!

With the many combinations Jose's tried or is trying, all seem to have in common a willingness and ability to make & create scoring chances. Some stats specialist can tell us exactly how many, but I believe we're in the bottom 3 for converting good chances and yet among the top in terms of chances created?

If our scoring percentage was even average or slightly better than that, we'd be in real contention for the title (as well as everything else) despite all the supposed shortcomings the team has!

What's my point?
Well, first credit Jose for doing an amazing job with what he's got to work with! We're still in four competitions (assuming top 4 is a "competition) and this, as mentioned, despite all our supposed "weak links" and under-performing talent?

A finished chance here or there would have made a world of difference to our league position!

But even if we were sitting in second;

Darmian would still be just an "Okay" defender, Shaw would still be "struggling for confidence", Blind would still be "too slow", Jones would still be "too injury prone", Smalling would still "not be able to pass it well enough", Rojo would still be "too rash", Valencia would still "have to cross better", Martial, Rashford (& others including Lingard) would all still "have to mature", Rooney would still be "too fat" & even Ibra, like Carrick, would still be too "old" ... and yet here we are in a Wembley Final, the last 16 in the FA Cup, the last 32 in a Euro competition and i with a good shout for 3rd or 4th place!

Our arguments about who we should buy for the left or right side is moot for me. To win everything (our goal under Jose) we need to be many things & play in many ways. Mainly we just need a handful (6 tops) of players who are just a "little better" than some of the ones we have now, and not necessarily superstars who will cost too much or just not leaving where hey are! Or maybe keep working with some of the ones we have and help them get better ... which I think Jose & his coaches will do!

To win the premiership needs one approach, while winning the Champions League requires another. Something SAF you may remember, found extremely challenging and a puzzle he regrets to this day not being able to solve consistently!

Jose is planning to build a squad that can/will win everything! To accomplish that he needs a truly deep squad, not a small very expensive one. But what I think he understands is that he needs to build two teams with potentially two distinct styles; One that includes real width and pace and another more narrow from which to mount counter attacks. Yes Griezmann looks like a cert but I think there's a half dozen players, more like Bailly in the £30M range who Jose will have his eye on to upgrade his squad not completely revamp it.

Good common sense post. Like it!

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Make it £50m

what a stupid comment. Not a penny over £49M

 

[Robertd0803]

what a stupid comment. Not a penny over £49M

One penny less then.

 

[devilish]

Could Mahrez do the trick? Leicester are in shambles so we should be able to sign him up without breaking the bank for him. He was stellar last season and he looks quite a handful this year too.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

One penny less then.

£48,999,999.99 ?

That's a bit stingy mate. we need to stay classy.