Eric Dier | Poch: “He is an important player for us and the idea is not to sell him."

[Decomposing In Paris]

Just thinking, Lindeloff can apparently play CB, RB, & DM. Could we have potentially signed him (apparently good on the ball, strong etc.) to play CB, but push up into the midfield anchor position whenever it suits. So

Valencia Bailey Blind (/Rojo) Shaw
-------------------- Lindeloff -------------------
--------- Herrera ------------ Pogba --------

Or

--------- Bailey. Lindeloff Blind ------
Valencia Herrera. Pogba. Shaw

 

[GlastonSpur]

The bookies make us the joint second faves for the title with Chelsea at 10/3. City are the faves at 7/4. Spurs are 9/1.

Mourinho can deliver a second season special at United, and Dier will want to be part of that incredible story.

Bookies odds reflect the amount of money bet (or sometimes attempts by the bookies to draw money in) - they don't represent the actual chances of a given event actually happening.

 

[balaks]

After United, there wasn't a team in the prem I watched more than Spurs. Quality young team with a solid English presence throughout and a manager who directs his players to play the game in a way I appreciate. Plus they all seem to share a hunger and desire I haven't seen since the emergence of the Co92. I've seen more than enough to place a concrete judgement on Dier, yes he can play at CB, he can play at RB too, but his ideal role is that of a CDM. His versatility is a just another plus point.

Wanyama does not play DM the way Dier does. Whether by design or by tendency, I don't think he's the best player for Spurs against strong defenses. They control possession better with that back three and advanced fullbacks. Spurs fans feel free to correct me if need be.

I'd tke Dier over Wanyama any day of the week.

Yep you pretty much summed it up - Wanyama and Dier are very different types of players, both very good at what they do but Wanyama is a specialist in his role whereas Dier is much more flexible which is why he is so important for us. I honestly think this thread is pointless though as I do not think Dier is going anywhere - the club do not want to sell him and from what I understand we will only sell players we are happy to sell. Yes you could make a massive bid which could change things but it would take a massive bid.

 

[Random Task]

Let's agree to disagree then. Think Shaw is massively overrated on here and those wing options are decent, but not enough to win the PL.

Fair enough mate.

 

[Android1974]

Think that's indeed mainly based on Mou's second season syndrome, depending also on the signings we might make. We still have quite some work to do.

Not even that syndrome will put us next season as title winners. Maybe, now that he's older and starts slower, it will become fourth season syndrome, after winning the title in the third. Would be happy if we challenged, though.

 

[Android1974]

I didnt watch the game but is this it, this is what people are raving about? Didnt actually go anywhere

Yes, was thinking the same. Dier actually doing the Mourinho kind of defensive work, defending with his eyes till the player advances.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Bookies odds reflect the amount of money bet (or sometimes attempts by the bookies to draw money in) - they don't represent the actual chances of a given event actually happening.

That is absolute rubbish! Having written a Masters dissertation on the Effeciency of the Sports Betting Market, the odds from bookmakers are a significant predictor of actual events.

Bookmakers will of course make some adjustments to protect their liability but to claim its just based on money put down is a very poor attempt to add weight to your argument - you are wrong. If you were right then England would be the favourites for every international competition.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Just to be clear:

We are United and we sign who we want.

You wanted Bale. He didn't want you.
You wanted Modric. He didn't want you.
You wanted Griezmann etc etc etc ....

I'm sure you get the picture: wanting and getting are two different things

 

[Android1974]

You wanted Bale. He didn't want you.
You wanted Modric. He didn't want you.
You wanted Griezmann etc etc etc ....

I'm sure you get the picture: wanting and getting are two different things

You're saying Dier doesn't want United? If not…

 

[Escobar]

One reason must be to add another English player imo

 

[balaks]

That is absolute rubbish! Having written a Masters dissertation on the Effeciency of the Sports Betting Market, the odds from bookmakers are a significant predictor of actual events.

Bookmakers will of course make some adjustments to protect their liability but to claim its just based on money put down is a very poor attempt to add weight to your argument - you are wrong. If you were right then England would be the favourites for every international competition.

You have to consider that many online betting companies play the public like fools and will change odds to suggest something could happen - knowing it probably wont - then rake it in because basically people are sheep and perform in a predictable way.

 

[Android1974]

One reason must be to add another English player imo

Of course, Mourinho pays attention to that, and we already lost Rooney and are on the verge of letting one of Smalling (or Jones) go, probably Young too.

 

[GlastonSpur]

That is absolute rubbish! Having written a Masters dissertation on the Effeciency of the Sports Betting Market, the odds from bookmakers are a significant predictor of actual events.

Bookmakers will of course make some adjustments to protect their liability but to claim its just based on money put down is a very poor attempt to add weight to your argument - you are wrong. If you were right then England would be the favourites for every international competition.

Where did I say it's just based on money? I said the odds can reflect the amounts of money wagered, which is simply a true statement.

Also, odds can be a significant predictor of actual events without representing the actual chances of a given event: the two things are not the same.

 

[Dec9003]

You wanted Bale. He didn't want you.
You wanted Modric. He didn't want you.
You wanted Griezmann etc etc etc ....

I'm sure you get the picture: wanting and getting are two different things

You want a premier league title, it doesn't want you...
....

 

[GlastonSpur]

You want a premier league title, it doesn't want you...
....

You want to look like an idiot .... congrats, you've succeeded.

 

[Dec9003]

You want to look like an idiot .... congrats, you've succeeded.

No response so you result to personal insults, stay classy Glaston

 

[roonster09]

You want a premier league title, it doesn't want you...
....

burn

 

[GlastonSpur]

You're saying Dier doesn't want United? If not…

I'm saying that there are plenty of players that United want but don't/can't get.

I'm also saying that I suspect Dier is reasonably content to be at Spurs and will not be wildly agitating for a move away to United.

 

[El-Manos]

You want to look like an idiot .... congrats, you've succeeded.

Worst ....comeback....ever... I'd say go and have a lie down before you sprout more nonsense.

 

[Blind]

From watching quite a bit of Spurs the past two seasons, Wanyama is just a better player overall. He's better at closing down, reading the game and he's improved techincally from the limited player he was at Southampton. Spurs played more proactive football last season because of the influence of Wanyama and Son. I remember a lot of good football in 15/16 but they also ran out of ideas too often, I have a feeling we'd be doing the same with Dier in midfield.

 

[Lash]

People keep repeating this myth, but it's wide of the mark. Dier was excellent in the DM role the season before last, but we didn't play with a back 3 then. Now we do and Dier has been shifted there because he can contribute more to the team in that position compared to any of the other alternatives to Alderweireld and Vertonghen.

It seems bizarre that you would replace your excellent DM with Wanyama because he can contribute more as a CB in a back three. I appreciate when you play as a back 3 the central CB has an onus to bring the ball forward and I happen to genuinely think he is a good CB in a back 3, but peddling he is actually a CDM when he had 1 season there - albeit a good one, is just tosh. Take him outside the Spurs bubble of a great unit and he is completely found out as a CDM in the england team.

After United, there wasn't a team in the prem I watched more than Spurs. Quality young team with a solid English presence throughout and a manager who directs his players to play the game in a way I appreciate. Plus they all seem to share a hunger and desire I haven't seen since the emergence of the Co92. I've seen more than enough to place a concrete judgement on Dier, yes he can play at CB, he can play at RB too, but his ideal role is that of a CDM. His versatility is a just another plus point.

Wanyama does not play DM the way Dier does. Whether by design or by tendency, I don't think he's the best player for Spurs against strong defences. They control possession better with that back three and advanced fullbacks. Spurs fans feel free to correct me if need be.

I'd tke Dier over Wanyama any day of the week.

I'm not suggesting we take Wanyama, but your case for Dier is in isolation. You're not comparing him to anyone else outside of Spurs, so he's hardly getting a fair crack of the whip. It just seems you like the way Spurs play so we should get Dier. Versatility is really not a plus, we have no need for another body for CB or RB who isn't a wingback. If we played with a back 3, I could see the argument for bringing him here - but we don't.

 

[GlastonSpur]

No response so you result to personal insults, stay classy Glaston

No other response is needed to your notion that league titles have wants and desires. Stay vacuously abstract Dec.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Yeah, I just can't see them selling at all. They're struggling to find quality players who want to come, and so finding it hard to improve their first team/squad.. so they'd be mad to lose a player who does give them much needed depth strength.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Where did I say it's just based on money? I said the odds can reflect the amounts of money wagered, which is simply a true statement.

Also, odds can be a significant predictor of actual events without representing the actual chances of a given event: the two things are not the same.

So you know how much has been bet on Utd/ City/ Spurs etc? Because you imply that Utd should not have the odds that they have because more ££ has been put down on them. I expect your just hurt as Spurs are 9-1, which probably seems about right.

Of course odds are not the actual predictor of what's going to happen (even taking out the margin) - as clearly its not happened yet.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Christian fuchs and Danny Simpson fullback pair won the PL ffs. If we don't win PL it's not because of players like Shaw.

Yeah lets cling onto Leicester like thats the rule and not the exception.

 

[Random Task]

It seems bizarre that you would replace your excellent DM with Wanyama because he can contribute more as a CB in a back three. I appreciate when you play as a back 3 the central CB has an onus to bring the ball forward and I happen to genuinely think he is a good CB in a back 3, but peddling he is actually a CDM when he had 1 season there - albeit a good one, is just tosh. Take him outside the Spurs bubble of a great unit and he is completely found out as a CDM in the england team.



I'm not suggesting we take Wanyama, but your case for Dier is in isolation. You're not comparing him to anyone else outside of Spurs, so he's hardly getting a fair crack of the whip. It just seems you like the way Spurs play so we should get Dier. Versatility is really not a plus, we have no need for another body for CB or RB who isn't a wingback. If we played with a back 3, I could see the argument for bringing him here - but we don't.

Fair point.

To be absolutely honest with you, I haven't seen enough of the potential candidates -Fabinho, Nainggolan, Weigel ect - to make a fair comparison. I've seen Fabinho and Nainggolan play perhaps 3 times at most (never a full game) and I've never seen Weigel play. Apart from Barca, I tend to stick primarily to the prem when it comes to watching football.

I know Dier is good enough to represent United as a CDM, in fact I think he'd shine in a Jose setup.

 

[Random Task]

No response so you result to personal insults, stay classy Glaston

This is what he does, though. You can't really debate anything Spurs related when Glaston is around because he'll turn it into a slanging match. Get's tiresome fast.

 

[themoyesboy]

Think that's indeed mainly based on Mou's second season syndrome, depending also on the signings we might make. We still have quite some work to do.

I agree. Lukaku is a great signing, but we need a few more big ones to compete this season.

 

[Lash]

Fair point.

To be absolutely honest with you, I haven't seen enough of the potential candidates -Fabinho, Nainggolan, Weigel ect - to make a fair comparison. I've seen Fabinho and Nainggolan play perhaps 3 times at most (never a full game) and I've never seen Weigel play. Apart from Barca, I tend to stick primarily to the prem when it comes to watching football.

I know Dier is good enough to represent United as a CDM, in fact I think he'd shine in a Jose setup.

Yeah, I don't doubt you rate him highly, I just think the money being bandied about for him is quite off putting - he may not even want to come!

Fair enough, at least your honest in your own assessment of him and if he does come, I hope you're vindicated!

 

[Random Task]

I agree. Lukaku is a great signing, but we need a few more big ones to compete this season.

I don't think we do, mate. A solid defensive mid, one that knows the role inside out and can perform on a consistent basis, is all that's required for United to be competitive next season. Honestly feel that way. I really don't fancy starting next season with an aging Carrick (aged?) and Fellaini as our primary DM's.

Dier might just be the missing piece to the puzzle.

 

[Random Task]

Yeah, I don't doubt you rate him highly, I just think the money being bandied about for him is quite off putting - he may not even want to come!

Fair enough, at least your honest in your own assessment of him and if he does come, I hope you're vindicated!

Probably get banned otherwise.

Nothing new for me, though

 

[ZAGREB RED]

It's not a signing that would cause excitement in the way a new striker or attacking midfielder would, but I think he is very good in that holding role that Carrick plays and can also play comfortably at CB/RB. £50M is maybe a bit steep, but he might well be the signing United need in that CDM role.

 

[Noc-Z]

He would be my choice after Matic (hardly glamorous I know). Mourinho is pragmatic, so I think he wants Matic. But I'd take Dier long before i considered Weigl or Fabinho.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

You wanted Bale. He didn't want you.
You wanted Modric. He didn't want you.
You wanted Griezmann etc etc etc ....

I'm sure you get the picture: wanting and getting are two different things

Bale and Modric rejected Spurs first and foremost, since that's where they already were.

Added to that, you want to be able to pay your players enough that you won't be always be a feeder club...

But you can't.

You want to win any trophy going...

But, again, you can't.

We've had 4 the last 2 seasons - how many have you had the last 20 years? Hope someone can answer.

 

[GlastonSpur]

So you know how much has been bet on Utd/ City/ Spurs etc? Because you imply that Utd should not have the odds that they have because more ££ has been put down on them. I expect your just hurt as Spurs are 9-1, which probably seems about right.

Of course odds are not the actual predictor of what's going to happen (even taking out the margin) - as clearly its not happened yet.

That's quite likely, yes. But to be honest I couldn't care less about betting odds either way, as I never make bets with a bookmaker.

In any case, I expect that United had better odds than Spurs at the start of last season concerning the title race - and the season before that too - but look at how that all panned out.

 

[James Peril]

That's quite likely, yes. But to be honest I couldn't care less about betting odds either way, as I never make bets with a bookmaker.

In any case, I expect that United had better odds than Spurs at the start of last season concerning the title race - and the season before that too - but look at how that all panned out.

Nobody cares about you not placing bets with the bookies either, you made a knowitall comment about something like you always do - perhaps you should have refrained. Furthermore, your comment about the outcome of any given season is also incredibly irrelevant to the discussion (and wuups, it paints Spurs in a better picture like it always does). Odds and percentages are put out before the season has started, which this discussion is about, and unless you can predict the future your arguments are worthless. Leicester won the league at 5000/1 two years ago so who the hell cares? The odds paints an "accurate" description of the strengths of every team on beforehand, whatever those variables might be - it's not an indication of the most popular clubs with fans betting the most amount of money (although correlation is there for sure).

The reason why Spurs are a bit lower is because they have probably hit some kind of glass ceiling (people's/bookies perception), if they could not beat Leicester or Chelsea they cannot win next season either. High top level, but not an extreme one. Even with an embarrassing Champions League-campaign and an even more traumatic Europa League-stint, they still could not manage to properly join the race for the title in their best ever Premier League-season. Next season removes some advantages and evens the playing field for all the top clubs minus Arsenal. All are in Europe, five of the six best teams are in the Champions League - no excuses.

I am however not saying United are a better team than Spurs at the moment, even though the odds might be lower. The odds would suggest that United have the ability to hit that extreme level if some variables come into place, most notably with Mourinho in charge, history, transfers (a game-changing player could sign for United next week, he would not go to Spurs) and so forth. Not to mention a few potentially great players that could hit form together like they did for Spurs did last year, most notably Mkhitaryan, Martial and Shaw. I am also not saying United have a bigger chance at winning compared to Spurs since they won the league a few years ago with Fergie/Van Persie - but winning is a habit and the organization is used to it. Mourinho knows how to win the league wherever he goes, Pochettino has never won a single thing in eight years - these things matter when odds are presented, which is what the discussion is about.

 

[Nadger]

One reason must be to add another English player imo

There is no chance this is a reason to buy Dier. He is not home grown.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Nobody cares about you not placing bets with the bookies either, you made a knowitall comment about something like you always do - perhaps you should have refrained. Furthermore, your comment about the outcome of any given season is also incredibly irrelevant to the discussion (and wuups, it paints Spurs in a better picture like it always does). Odds and percentages are put out before the season has started, which this discussion is about, and unless you can predict the future your arguments are worthless. Leicester won the league at 5000/1 two years ago so who the hell cares? The odds paints an "accurate" description of the strengths of every team on beforehand, whatever those variables might be - it's not an indication of the most popular clubs with fans betting the most amount of money (although correlation is there for sure).

The reason why Spurs are a bit lower is because they have probably hit some kind of glass ceiling (people's/bookies perception), if they could not beat Leicester or Chelsea they cannot win next season either. High top level, but not an extreme one. Even with an embarrassing Champions League-campaign and an even more traumatic Europa League-stint, they still could not manage to properly join the race for the title in their best ever Premier League-season. Next season removes some advantages and evens the playing field for all the top clubs minus Arsenal. All are in Europe, five of the six best teams are in the Champions League - no excuses.

I am however not saying United are a better team than Spurs at the moment, even though the odds might be lower. The odds would suggest that United have the ability to hit that extreme level if some variables come into place, most notably with Mourinho in charge, history, transfers (a game-changing player could sign for United next week, he would not go to Spurs) and so forth. Not to mention a few potentially great players that could hit form together like they did for Spurs did last year, most notably Mkhitaryan, Martial and Shaw. I am also not saying United have a bigger chance at winning compared to Spurs since they won the league a few years ago with Fergie/Van Persie - but winning is a habit and the organization is used to it. Mourinho knows how to win the league wherever he goes, Pochettino has never won a single thing in eight years - these things matter when odds are presented, which is what the discussion is about.

I said that bookies odds are affected by the amount of money placed on particular outcomes. It's not the only factor of course, but it is one factor. That's not a "know-it-all" comment - it's an obvious fact.

 

[JJ12]

You wanted Bale. He didn't want you.
You wanted Modric. He didn't want you.
You wanted Griezmann etc etc etc ....

I'm sure you get the picture: wanting and getting are two different things

Interesting that the 2 examples you chose were 2 desperate to leave Spurs. I'm sure if we want Dier we'll get him because Real won't be involved.

Griezmann will join next season if we want him.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Interesting that the 2 examples you chose were 2 desperate to leave Spurs. I'm sure if we want Dier we'll get him because Real won't be involved.

Griezmann will join next season if we want him.

There are other examples, as I'm sure you very well know. The point being that - contrary to what the original posters said - United can't always sign who they want. It's puffed-up delusion to imagine otherwise.