"Glory Hunters"

[Andersons Dietician]

Fair enough, I knew when I wrote the title that it was potentially provocative.

Should have at least slapped some sexy undies on it. What stage of decomp you at by the way?

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Blindly following whilst you notice problems is not supporting the club.

Also Uuum you joined in April this year, what’s your excuse. Mine is I was on other forums and had heard about this and thought I’d have a look.
I saw other people mention this to you but your really seem like a loon. You go way way over the top in your defence of Jose to the point that you’re doing your own credibility damage.

Also I don’t remember reading the details that closely that it said leave it blank if you don’t support United. Now do us all a favour and just stop preaching everywhere with nothing of any benefit to the forum. I haven’t seen a single good post from you all weekend. All just blasphemy this blasphemy that, agendas blah blah blah. Also making yourself judge and executioner on what counts as constructive and what isn’t. Honestly absoulutly ridiculous

Ah, so your statement 'i’d Like to point out that no where on your profile does it say who you support' has now changed to 'I don’t remember reading the details that closely that it said leave it blank if you don’t support United'. I'll file you alongside Wumminator as a troll...albeit at least he doesn't squeal about his human and civil rights being infringed when people tell him he's talking shite.

 

[Adebesi]

This thread made me think of one I started a couple of years ago. To be fair it didnt get much traction, but it covers some of the same ground.

Football is a business. Increasingly so. A day doesnt go by when someone doesnt trot out the cliche about football not being what it was 10 years ago, 10 years ago they said the same thing, it is evolving all the time. But most of that change is seen on the football field, in terms of styles of play, in terms of application of the rules ("that would never have been a foul 10 years ago"), in terms of the number of foreigners in the league, the quality of football, the attitudes of the footballers and how accessible they are to fans.

How much has the experience of being a fan changed? And in particular, fan loyalty? There is one thing to put in here that falls into a similar category to the examples above: you hear that, back in yesteryear, when children were seen and not heard and you could leave your front door open and not fear being robbed, people used to go and watch whichever local team was playing at home, be that United or City, Liverpool or Everton, Arsenal or Spurs. Now football is more tribal, and with it there is, perhaps greater loyalty.

I have always found this a really interesting question because it is fundamentally related to the way football operates as a business. For a market to work, "consumers" have to be free to shop around. That keeps businesses - suppliers - honest. If Brand X is better than Brand Y, you buy Brand X, and that gives Y the incentive to improve, either on quality, on price, on something else or a combination of things.

And back to football. Perhaps a subsequent phase in the evolution of football will require "fans" or "supporters" will need to become more "consumers of the product that is football".

There are several things going on in football right now that keep leading me back to this thought. The older one is the whole Glazer thing, that is a bit outdated now, most people dont care about it much any more, even those of us who did a few years ago. But this is the context in which I first started thinking about this, many years ago. It is all well and good sitting in the stands wearing Green and Gold. The club would take taken more notice (whether that is a good or bad thing is another discussion) if fans had taken their business elsewhere. Some did, to FCUM. But this was a difficult step for many to take.

As I said, this is all a bit passe now. But the thought came back to me in recent days because of the way people have responded to the Van Gaal regime. More than a few "why dont you piss off and support City" comments have been thrown around in the last few weeks. This is usually said in anger. But is there a serious underlying point?

If it is true that United has honourable traditions in the way we play football, and if that is the reason a section of fans support the club, is there a chance they will drift away - especially if the change is enduring? If people are paying to be entertained, and if another team is playing more entertaining football than we are, are they entitled to take their custom elsewhere? It seems a stretch at the moment, because of fan loyalty. But would football benefit if this attitude evolved in the way other aspects of the sport have? It would certainly encourage clubs to pay more attention to what their fans want if they were fighting to retain their support.

Things are never quite so neat, but you could in theory see a team develop a win at all costs strategy, and another develop a beautiful football strategy, and then fans could pay their money and make their choice. No more arguments about "winning versus style" on the terraces or in chatrooms, because people could vote with their feet.

Having said all this, I cant see it happening, certainly not the neat, market-purist vision I just outlined. But stranger things have happened. Evolution is a slow but incredibly powerful force and sometimes where you end up can seem very strange compared to where things started. But it is also unpredictable. I think fan loyalty will evolve but it is probably impossible to predict exactly how.

I think the first stage of it though is increasing dissatisfaction with the Premier League. I might be completely wrong but this is just the evidence I have seen with my own eyes. This is best exemplified by two good friends of mine. The first is a Chelsea fan. He moved out of London and decided to start going to watch a lower division local team, partly for practical reasons and partly because he found Chelsea increasingly boring - not only in terms of football style, but the whole "Top 4" dominance and predictability thing.

The other is a more interesting case. He is a Swansea fan. After the Swans got into the PL he was initially ecstatic. But gradually he has drifted away from the club. He still nominally supports them but he just doesnt care like he used to. He feels disconnected from the club, it is harder to get tickets, the atmosphere is less fun and he finds he just doesnt care about it like he used to. Probably partly it is down to age and other priorities, but he insists it is more fun supporting a lower league club.

What I find interesting in both these cases is they are, in a sense, an inversion of glory hunting. Both people drifted away from their clubs (though they would both describe themselves as fans or supporters of the clubs they grew up following) because success turned them off. They wanted something smaller scale that they could feel more connected to. It wasnt about winning or even beautiful football, it was about a sense of belonging. I think for a lot of people the PL has become too corporate and they feel distant from it.

I dont know whether this is a trend or just something that happened to two friends of mine, coincidentally. But it has given me the sense that the money that continues to pump into the PL, while making it bigger and more powerful all the time, will also contribute to its demise. So the most immediate threat to fan loyalty will perhaps come from increasing apathy. United fans wont leave to become City fans in search of entertainment. But they might stop going to watch United. And they might start taking their kids to see their local side.

It will be interesting to see whether and how loyalty among fans has evolved in 10-20 years.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Ah, so your statement 'i’d Like to point out that no where on your profile does it say who you support' has now changed to 'I don’t remember reading the details that closely that it said leave it blank if you don’t support United'. I'll file you alongside Wumminator as a troll...albeit at least he doesn't squeal about his human and civil rights being infringed when people tell him he's talking shite.

Talk about twisting words. On “your’ profile it doesn’t say you support anyone. I realise all weekend you’ve had real issues reading and even funnier gave some one stick for their reading comprehension when clearly you were the one in the wrong.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

I've supported the club for 50 years and agree with some of what you say but reserve the right to say we were totally shite when we were indeed total shite! Losing to Huddersfield highlights to me that we wil not win the title come the end of the season and I think it's fair for me to say so

I have no issue with people pointing out that we were crap against Huddersfield... it's true. It's just that when negativity is a matter of opinion (for instance, when we were consistently winning 4-0 and posters are negative about something like the time the goals were scored). I'll go further, I actually don't even mind negativity, but I would prefer that it is seen for what it is. It's negative, not superior. As some posters have pointed out, balance on a forum like this can be part of the fun of reading it, but that balance can't be weighted to one side and remain balanced. It's football lads (and ladies) let's have a bit of fun with it.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

Should have at least slapped some sexy undies on it. What stage of decomp you at by the way?

Fair enough

Somewhere between Bob Dylan and Taylor Swift.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Talk about twisting words. On “your’ profile it doesn’t say you support anyone. I realise all weekend you’ve had real issues reading and even funnier gave some one stick for their reading comprehension when clearly you were the one in the wrong.

As I've already told you the guidance note says: 'Leave this field blank if you support Manchester United'.

Jeez, it's like shooting fish in a barrel at this stage.

oh, and it isn't the weekend either...

 

[Andersons Dietician]

As I've already told you the guidance note says: 'Leave this field blank if you support Manchester United'.

Jeez, it's like shooting fish in a barrel at this stage.

I mean that would have been the case if you hadn’t already made the mistake in your post prior to the information about leaving your thing blank.
So again sort out your reading comprehension. It’s funny that we’ve gone full circle back around from the first time we interacted when you couldn’t read and then back to this. ‘The Circle of idiocy” by yourself is complete.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

I mean that would have been the case if you hadn’t already made the mistake in your post prior to the information about leaving your thing blank.
So again sort out your reading comprehension. It’s funny that we’ve gone full circle back around from the first time we interacted when you couldn’t read and then back to this. ‘The Circle of idiocy” by yourself is complete.

Quote it cowboy.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Quote it cowboy.

Weak Duncan Castles Just scroll up a bit

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Weak Duncan Castles Just scroll up a bit

Are you feeling OK? Quote it.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Are you feeling OK? Quote it.

Ah, so your statement 'i’d Like to point out that no where on your profile does it say who you support' has now changed to 'I don’t remember reading the details that closely that it said leave it blank if you don’t support United'. I'll file you alongside Wumminator as a troll...albeit at least he doesn't squeal about his human and civil rights being infringed when people tell him he's talking shite.

There’s your mistake right there. Because you’ve confused the use of ‘your’ hence your mistake.

 

[sokol11]

It's pretty simple actually I would say.

If you have for example a small kid who starts following his first football team because of it's current attractive style/success this is only logical. In previous decades you had Ajax, AC Milan, United, Barcelona and other historically great clubs or in the last years Chelsea, City, PSG. It is only a logical consequence of those teams play if more new fans start following Chelsea, City, PSG in the last years. I would not say those are glory hunters.

The glory hunters for me are people who swap a team they support regularly based on how they are doing in that given time.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

There’s your mistake right there. Because you’ve confused the use of ‘your’ hence your mistake.

The word 'your' can be taken either way, so the idea that there is something wrong with my reading comprehension is some way off beam.

 

[glazed]

How they came isnt the issue. But if they "would lose allegiance if United spent a decade playing like Wimbledon" then are they actually loyalists? Doesnt "loyalist" imply loyalty, as in, without conditions?

Presumably even the most hard core fan would stop Supporting MUFC if Sir Bobby and Sir Alex murdered their family, burned down their house and fed their pet dog to the First Team Squad. Loyalty is, surely, a range, not an absolute.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Presumably even the most hard core fan would stop Supporting MUFC if Sir Bobby and Sir Alex murdered their family, burned down their house and fed their pet dog to the First Team Squad. Loyalty is, surely, a range, not an absolute.

 

[glazed]

I would think less of anyone that would lose allegiance to a football team because of a) a lack of trophies, or b) a particular playing style. That to me is not a true supporter but is more of a casual fan. But hey, that's just my personal view, I'm not saying that is how everyone should think/feel.

Perhaps it's just a different kind of loyalty - to a philosophy rather than a geography?

 

[Andersons Dietician]

The word 'your' can be taken either way, so the idea that there is something wrong with my reading comprehension is some way off beam.

Yeah it’s called looking at context to determine the meaning. Especially when it was clearly obvious I was meaning you. Take your lumps and admit you made a mistake instead of trying to weasel your way out of it again.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Presumably even the most hard core fan would stop Supporting MUFC if Sir Bobby and Sir Alex murdered their family, burned down their house and fed their pet dog to the First Team Squad. Loyalty is, surely, a range, not an absolute.

Are they doing it for the good of the team tho? That is the real question

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Yeah it’s called looking at context to determine the meaning. Especially when it was clearly obvious I was meaning you. Take your lumps and admit you made a mistake instead of trying to weasel your way out of it again.

The context was me asking you why you had written 'Good Football' in the 'Supports' section, when it clearly states to leave it blank if you are a United fan. What was up with your reading when you completed that bit then?

 

[Adebesi]

Presumably even the most hard core fan would stop Supporting MUFC if Sir Bobby and Sir Alex murdered their family, burned down their house and fed their pet dog to the First Team Squad. Loyalty is, surely, a range, not an absolute.

Why would they? Those people are individuals, they arent the club. You could continue to support Man United while condemning the behaviour of a few people closely associated with the club. I imagine the press office would put out a statement making it clear that murdering families, burning down homes and eating pets were entirely inconsistent with the values of the club, at which point we would all feel good about supporting it again.

 

[glazed]

Why would they? Those people are individuals, they arent the club. You could continue to support Man United while condemning the behaviour of a few people closely associated with the club. I imagine the press office would put out a statement making it clear that murdering families, burning down homes and eating pets were entirely inconsistent with the values of the club, at which point we would all feel good about supporting it again.

I can't help but be impressed by that level of ..there isn't even a word.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Perhaps it's just a different kind of loyalty - to a philosophy rather than a geography?

WTF?

This place is surprising on an almost hourly basis at the moment.

 

[glazed]

I would think less of anyone that would lose allegiance to a football team because of a) a lack of trophies, or b) a particular playing style. That to me is not a true supporter but is more of a casual fan. But hey, that's just my personal view, I'm not saying that is how everyone should think/feel.

Here's a question. How far from the current Old Trafford would MUFC have to move their home ground before you stopped supporting them? 10 miles? A hundred? A thousand?

 

[Adebesi]

I can't help but be impressed by that level of ..there isn't even a word.

Stupidity? Ignorance? Senselessness? Moral bankruptcy?

 

[glazed]

Stupidity? Ignorance? Senselessness? Moral bankruptcy?

Doesn't really cover it. Purblindstrangelyadmirablefanaticallunacy is the best I can do, but it's not really a word.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

The context was me asking you why you had written 'Good Football' in the 'Supports' section, when it clearly states to leave it blank if you are a United fan. What was up with your reading when you completed that bit then?

No that isn’t what you wrote. I pointed out that you don’t actually have anything written about who you support. You misinterpreted that like you usually do. Then later you mentioned it tells you just to leave it blank if you support united. I then said I didn’t read the fine print. You then twisted all that and continued to make a mug out of yourself. You are now latching on to a nothing thing to try and make yourself feel better. You’ve done it all weekend. Your defences of Jose have now just become you attacking forum memebres and snide comments.

Something that in the rules it tells you not to do, hence why I’m surprised you haven’t had a telling off. Now please stop as I’m sure people are getting tired of reading your rubbish, mine and all the other people you’re currently attacking because some of us actually want to talk about football and our great club and how we perceive it’s current state.

 

[Adebesi]

Doesn't really cover it. Purblindstrangelyadmirablefanaticallunacy is the best I can do, but it's not really a word.

Feels like youre making too much of a big deal of murder, arson and pet consumption to me. These things happen. But YOU MUST ALWAYS SUPPORT YOUR CLUB.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Here's a question. How far from the current Old Trafford would MUFC have to move their home ground before you stopped supporting them? 10 miles? A hundred? A thousand?

I don't understand the relevance of the question.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

No that isn’t what you wrote. I pointed out that you don’t actually have anything written about who you support. You misinterpreted that like you usually do. Then later you mentioned it tells you just to leave it blank if you support united. I then said I didn’t read the fine print. You then twisted all that and continued to make a mug out of yourself. You are now latching on to a nothing thing to try and make yourself feel better. You’ve done it all weekend. Your defences of Jose have now just become you attacking forum memebres and snide comments.

Something that in the rules it tells you not to do, hence why I’m surprised you haven’t had a telling off. Now please stop as I’m sure people are getting tired of reading your rubbish, mine and all the other people you’re currently attacking because some of us actually want to talk about football and our great club and how we perceive it’s current state.

It's not the fecking weekend! You seem very confused.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Very condescending OP.

Some of like for United to play attractive football and have a bit of a moan for lack of it.

3rd Gen United supporters doesn't mean they are superior to rest of fans here. And nobody should really care if another poster supports United for long or short term. As long as they are supporting United and not shit stirring in this forum, that should suffice.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

It's not the fecking weekend!

Enough said really all weekend and continue to do so. Never been a finer example of someone who’s comprehension is poor

 

[Adebesi]

Here's a question. How far from the current Old Trafford would MUFC have to move their home ground before you stopped supporting them? 10 miles? A hundred? A thousand?

Are they moving the club to somewhere with a better climate so we can convince the next generation of Latin wonderkids to join?

Not that it makes a big difference, but its nice to know the context of the move before making a decision.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Enough said really all weekend and continue to do so. Never been a finer example of someone who’s comprehension is poor

The irony of the fact that your first sentence makes no sense due to a lack of grammar, and the second one includes a grammatical/spelling error, is quite staggering.

 

[Rob]

It may be a little weird for me to post in this thread as I'm not a United fan, but I haven't seen anyone being "fed up" with Mourinho. I've seen people pointing out that maybe you haven't been playing as well as the scorelines suggest and that you parked a big fecking bus against us, which you did. Maybe Mourinhos attitude towards that game suggests that he also thought your results weren't actually reflective of the team. If not, then I too was quite surprised by your lack of will to win against a very vulnerable Liverpool team. There's no shame in pointing out things about your club, that could be better. In your case playing a better brand of football while still getting results.

Take my own club, Liverpool, as an example. We sometimes play beautiful football, but this season in particular we have been downright poor more often than not. I like Klopp and want him to stay and succeed, but that doesn't mean I can't point out some of the glaring faults in our team which, in most cases, are down to him.

And you can most definitely support a club while not being a fan of the manager. Mourinho is maybe the most pragmatic manager in the world and some will probably find his football boring while still supporting United.

I think it's fair for fans of a club of Uniteds size to expect decent football along with results. Hell, we watch football to be entertained, don't we?

 

[JPRouve]

Condescending in Paris.

Aka french.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

The irony of the fact that your first sentence makes no sense due to a lack of grammar, and the second one includes a grammatical/spelling error, is quite staggering.

I’m fine with that. Some of us have work to do and don’t have time to check what way predictive text decides to change words. Also the first part makes complete sense, you just don’t like it because yet again it makes your previous post look stupid. Now please just stop. You’re ruining the forum with all your attacks on multiple users.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

I’m fine with that. Some of us have work to do and don’t have time to check what way predictive text decides to change words. Also the first part makes complete sense, you just don’t like it because yet again it makes your previous post look stupid. Now please just stop. You’re ruining the forum with all your attacks on multiple users.

Ah, naughty predictive text, taking away all your sentence structure. Your lack of self awareness is amazing. I think you called me a haemorrhoid on a different thread a few minutes ago (oh and Duncan Castles on this one) and I'm the one ruining the forum with my 'attacks on multiple users'?

 

[Plato]

I don't understand the relevance of the question.

The point is there is a scenario when you'd presumably stop supporting United. I'd stop supporting United if we got took over by a despotic regime, were found to have cheated for years, or moved across the country to become Milton Keynes United. For me, the romance would be dead. Managers are fleeting, especially Mourinho, so I couldn't imagine a scenario where I'd stop supporting United due to the playing style. The lack of success we've had recently doesn't bother me half as much as seeing consistently stupid signings, from replacing Ronaldo with Valencia, Tevez with Owen and Fergie with Moyes. I didn't want Jose in the first place but that doesn't mean I don't want him to do well, I just don't think it's going to work out for some of the reasons that made me not want him in the first place. He's going to be held to very high expectations because the football he plays is so crap. That's how it works.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Christ, get a room you two