The relative strength of the Premier League

Apart from City none of the PL teams stand a chance against Psg. I think they succesfully bought the cup in one transfer window.

I think City, PSG and Barca (in no particular order) are clearly the top 3 teams around at the moment, they're all 4-5 points ahead of the chasing pack in their respective leagues already and unbeaten, have all smashed teams by 4-5 goals and have all comfortably beaten teams you'd count amongst Europe's elite.

I expect Real and Bayern to gradually get better but they've got some catching up to do at the moment.
 
I think City, PSG and Barca (in no particular order) are clearly the top 3 teams around at the moment, they're all 4-5 points ahead of the chasing pack in their respective leagues already and unbeaten, have all smashed teams by 4-5 goals and have all comfortably beaten teams you'd count amongst Europe's elite.

I expect Real and Bayern to gradually get better but they've got some catching up to do at the moment.

Bayern's hindrance is that they don't really have the financial power to go after the best players in the world, what works in their favour is that they can cherry pick the best available talent domestically and Germany have the strongest youth system in the world so there will never be shortage of brilliant players at Bayern. Additionally, they get to keep them for a long period of time because once you are there there's very little incentive to move elsewhere.
 
It's not true.

The PL mainly purchase players from smaller leagues, it is not a league where you go to purchase players, it's not a league where young players are developed in great numbers too, so yes it's true. Spanish clubs will do what they have always done and mainly turn to their own league, South America, France, Portugal and Eastern Europe.
 
Bayern's hindrance is that they don't really have the financial power to go after the best players in the world, what works in their favour is that they can cherry pick the best available talent domestically and Germany have the strongest youth system in the world so there will never be shortage of brilliant players at Bayern. Additionally, they get to keep them for a long period of time because once you are there there's very little incentive to move elsewhere.

This is a good point.

with the recent success of the England youth teams in the last few tournaments it would be well worth our top clubs looking and taking a gamble on a couple.

Admittedly most will probably be sent out on loan and disappear into the lower leagues but there's been a few gems about from the games i've seen.
 
Bayern's hindrance is that they don't really have the financial power to go after the best players in the world, what works in their favour is that they can cherry pick the best available talent domestically and Germany have the strongest youth system in the world so there will never be shortage of brilliant players at Bayern. Additionally, they get to keep them for a long period of time because once you are there there's very little incentive to move elsewhere.

They do have the financial power (revenues) but they are choosing to be very conservative in their spending.

That policy will not work in the long run. They can be "good" that way though.

It will be interesting to see how they refresh their team going forward.
 
The PL mainly purchase players from smaller leagues, it is not a league where you go to purchase players, it's not a league where young players are developed in great numbers too, so yes it's true. Spanish clubs will do what they have always done and mainly turn to their own league, South America, France, Portugal and Eastern Europe.

Portugal, South America , France , Eastern Europe are not spain from their local league, by the way.

If you consider home grown rule players epl have lots of them too.
 
They do have the financial power (revenues) but they are choosing to be very conservative in their spending.

That policy will not work in the long run. They can be "good" that way though.

It will be interesting to see how they refresh their team going forward.

I don't think they are able to spend £90m on a player, or buy five £50m players in one window. I think they'll still keep taking the best talent in Germany, which should also be enough to keep them competitive considering how strong Germany youth set up is. They'll likely get Goretzka and Brandt next year, both of whom are top talents. The true challenge will be replacing Robben's contribution but for that to happen they'll IMO need to change the way they play.

There are some German talent that might be out of their reach though, mainly those that are plying their trade at Leipzig who are loaded with cash themselves and won't have much incentive to sell - I'm talking about Werner in particular here.
 
The PL mainly purchase players from smaller leagues, it is not a league where you go to purchase players, it's not a league where young players are developed in great numbers too, so yes it's true. Spanish clubs will do what they have always done and mainly turn to their own league, South America, France, Portugal and Eastern Europe.

England have lots of great talented youth coming up in under20s and 17s who just won the world cups in their age category and English national team are also full of quality epl players at the moment.
 
This is a good point.

with the recent success of the England youth teams in the last few tournaments it would be well worth our top clubs looking and taking a gamble on a couple.

Admittedly most will probably be sent out on loan and disappear into the lower leagues but there's been a few gems about from the games i've seen.

Problem in England is that young English talent is extremely expensive and teams naturally prefer to go abroad to get players. If you wanted to buy a talented English 20-year old you are probably looking at £30m minimum and if they are any good, then probably £50m. On the other hand Bayern can get similar or better level of talent for £10m or even free like they will do with Goretzka.

Also I think a lot of these young English players are already at big clubs and will have trouble getting through to the first team because of how much English teams typically spend to build their squads. City or Chelsea are unlikely to drop a £50m player to give playing time to an 19-year old inexperienced English player.
 
England have lots of great talented youth coming up in under20s and 17s who just won the world cups in their age category and English national team are also full of quality epl players at the moment.

Come on, youth teams might be good but the senior side is completely average and probably the worst it has been in a very long while.
 
I still only see it as City being strong enough from the PL, although Spurs have been impressive in their group.
 
England have lots of great talented youth coming up in under20s and 17s who just won the world cups in their age category and English national team are also full of quality epl players at the moment.

We are talking about the PL.
 
They don't need to handpick players from the PL and the PL doesn't really produce players anyway, so the point is moot. Real Madrid for example don't need a lot, they already have plenty of young and extremely talented players, a couple of addition should be enough.

I was talking players like Suarez/Ronaldo/Bale, all the stand out players in the Premier League, left for Spain. That won't be happening anymore, as said see Coutinho in the summer, Madrid never even went back in for De Gea again because they knew what would happen and last week Perez admitted Madrid wouldn't be able to sign Harry Kane because Spurs would want £200m+.

I'd argue against your point though that the Premier League doesn't produce players. 3 of the former most expensive players in world football last 5 years are all a product of Premier League academies/coaching. Gareth Bale, Pogba (been in England since 15) went through English clubs academies.

An English clubs money/coaching went a long way in making C. Ronaldo one of the greatest footballers in history, he was regarded as a 'show pony' when he first arrived in England aged 18 and left as the World Player of The Year.
 
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I was talking players like Suarez/Ronaldo/Bale, all the stand out players in the Premier League, left for Spain. That won't be happening anymore, as said see Coutinho in the summer, Madrid never even went back in for De Gea again because they knew what would happen and last week Perez admitted Madrid wouldn't be able to sign Harry Kane because Spurs would want £200m+.

I'd argue against your point though that the Premier League doesn't produce players. 3 of the former most expensive players in world football last 5 years are all a product of Premier League academies/coaching. Gareth Bale, Pogba (been in England since 15) went through English clubs academies.

An English clubs money/coaching went a long way in making C. Ronaldo one of the greatest footballers in history, he was regarded as a 'show pony' when he first arrived in England aged 18 and left as the World Player of The Year.

And my point is that La Liga do no rely on the PL when it comes to incoming transfers, it isn't a systemic route, of course there are transfers between the two leagues but Spanish or English clubs aren't in a situation where they absolutely need to purchase from the other in order to improve, the reality is that both leagues mainly use the other leagues for that.
 
An English clubs money/coaching went a long way in making C. Ronaldo one of the greatest footballers in history, he was regarded as a 'show pony' when he first arrived in England aged 18 and left as the World Player of The Year.
Sorry but that's horseshit. Ronaldo made Ronaldo what he is. Attributing his rise to English football is ridiculous.
 
The PL mainly purchase players from smaller leagues, it is not a league where you go to purchase players, it's not a league where young players are developed in great numbers too, so yes it's true. Spanish clubs will do what they have always done and mainly turn to their own league, South America, France, Portugal and Eastern Europe.

This is probably compounded be the teams at the bottom of the PL, due to the competitiveness of the division and the financial clout. Teams like Crystal Palace, Brighton, Bournemouth who are around the bottom 6 of the division have the luxury of spending millions on players that the worst teams in La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga probably don't. And because the division is highly competitive and the rewards for staying in it so great, they will without a moments hesitation rather than bring players through the academy.
 
Sorry but that's horseshit. Ronaldo made Ronaldo what he is. Attributing his rise to English football is ridiculous.

How is it horseshit and ridiculous? He needed the right club/coaching/facilitates to go from being a 'show pony' to Ballon d'Or winner, that all happened while he was in England so English football deserve credit for that.

Would all this have happened if was playing the Portuguese/French or Dutch league? Highly doubt it.
 
Sorry but that's horseshit. Ronaldo made Ronaldo what he is. Attributing his rise to English football is ridiculous.
I think the fact he was managed by Sir Alex had a profound impact on his career, so I don't agree it's ridiculous to say a stay in Premier League, particularly Manchester United, was the best that could've happened to one very talented 18 y.o. Portuguese lad.
It's a bit pointless to think how he would've developed had he joined Real or Bayern straight after Sporting, but I think no one would say it's an overstatement to attribute Messi's rise to Barça, and I'd say Manchester United/Premier League shaped Ronaldo, his style and his mentality a lot.
 
How is it horseshit and ridiculous? He needed the right club/coaching to go from being a 'show pony' to Ballon d'Or winner, that all happened while he was in England so English football deserve credit for that.

Would all this have happened if was playing the Portuguese/French or Dutch league? Highly doubt it.
Are you for real? Ronaldo as a youngster was already too good for the Dutch or Portuguese leagues, if he hadn't come to us, he would've gone to another top club. If he'd gone to Spain or Germany I doubt his trajectory would've been any different. It's like saying Messi is only great cause he went to Barca when he was young.

Attributing his success as a footballer to English football is just silly nonsense clutching at straws, because the fact of the matter is that English football has produced sweet feck all top class homegrown talent in the last decade aside from Kane and Bale.
 
Sorry but that's horseshit. Ronaldo made Ronaldo what he is. Attributing his rise to English football is ridiculous.

:lol:

Whilst I agree, if we start going down this road you might as well say the same for 90% of top level players.
 
How is it horseshit and ridiculous? He needed the right club/coaching/facilitates to go from being a 'show pony' to Ballon d'Or winner, that all happened while he was in England so English football deserve credit for that.

Would all this have happened if was playing the Portuguese/French or Dutch league? Highly doubt it.

It all happened while he was playing for Manchester United, coached by the greatest manager of all time. England has little to do with it other than hosting the city of Manchester.
 
:lol:

Whilst I agree, if we start going down this road you might as well say the same for 90% of top level players.
it's not "the road" I want to go down. I believe the original point is that the PL gets players from other European leagues far more than vice-versa, because let's face it, homegrown talent is pretty shit right now in the PL compared to Spain and Germany. Posters seem to be trying to refute that by naming players who aren't even fecking English to counter it :lol:
 
So when Dortmund gets credit for developing raw talent its different how?
Its ridiculous to lambast English coaching to then not give them credit for the talent they help mould.
 
So when Dortmund gets credit for developing raw talent its different how?
Its ridiculous to lambast English coaching to then not give them credit for the talent they help mould.
Exactly, Dortmund, the club, get credit. Just like Man Utd, the club, should get credit for Ronaldo. Not English or German football.
 
Im lost, are Stoke meant to develop Ronaldo here?
EPL clubs have always helped players who are on the verge of elite status maximise their potential. I don't get the argument here.
 
Epl too have very good players at the moment who are developed here.

Of course there are but it's still not the M.O of the league, the PL isn't a league that produce or develop talent for others which was the point, it wasn't before and it's not now.
 
Why? Kane Ali rashford Sterling dier Jones smalling rose walker butland are all doing so well in the league as individual players.
Kane is the only world class player the PL has produced since Bale, and before that it was Rooney. That speaks volumes about the quality in it for foreign clubs.

It's quite simple - Spain, France, and Germany have both produced far better players than England in the last decade and as such, obviously English clubs will go for their players far more than they will go for ours. Plus, there's always been more money in the PL than in those league's so they're not going to buy our bang average footballer's when other English clubs will be £50m for Kyle fecking Walker.
 
How is it horseshit and ridiculous? He needed the right coaching to go from being a 'show pony' to Ballon d'Or winner, that all happened while he was in England so English football deserve credit for that.

Would all this have happened if was playing the Portuguese/French or Dutch league? Highly doubt it.

Can it not be both? You need both good coaching and a good attitude/willingness to train a little extra. If you only needed coaching, then Balotelli would have won something by now.

As for the English clubs and producing their own talent: they get so much money from the TV deals that they are not really dependent on developing their own first team players from a young age. They only need to develop squad players, and buy first team players from other leagues as these players are better then those they can develop. This in turn causes the talented players in their youth sides to either struggle to break into the first team(because of team needing to get results to stay in PL), get loaned out to get experience, stop developing as a player or go to other clubs outside PL to have a chance.

I personally think most premier league teams(or english clubs in general) are doing a great job of coaching/developing players up until the age of 18, when they should try to get into the senior squad. Which can be seen by the recent results from youth international tournaments. After this they struggle because of the need for short term result and the overall quality of the league. Hard to win against bottom teams with 2 youngster in the team, so easier to buy already developed players. And the teams in PL are so dependent on result that they can't really afford losing points, because then they might be relegated and lose the holy grail that is the money from the TV-deal. Basically the overflow of money from the TV-deal is like a double edged sword. Pros and cons.
 
Of course there are but it's still not the M.O of the league, the PL isn't a league that produce or develop talent for others which was the point, it wasn't before and it's not now.

Epl produces lesser yeah , but may be they don't play abroad because other league clubs don't pay as well as epl clubs.
 
Epl produces lesser yeah , but may be they don't play abroad because other league clubs don't pay as well as epl clubs.

Maybe the context is important, I said that it wasn't clear yet if La Liga was going to give up the top position mainly because Real Madrid and Barcelona don't need a lot of incoming transfers and could easily fix their problems in a single window, then a poster responded that it wouldn't happen because they weren't able to handpick PL players anymore which was followed by me telling him that it was a moot point because the PL isn't a league that develop players(meaning for others) and that La Liga wasn't relying on it but mainly relying on pretty much every other leagues.
 
Maybe the context is important, I said that it wasn't clear yet if La Liga was going to give up the top position mainly because Real Madrid and Barcelona don't need a lot of incoming transfers and could easily fix their problems in a single window, then a poster responded that it wouldn't happen because they weren't able to handpick PL players anymore which was followed by me telling him that it was a moot point because the PL isn't a league that develop players(meaning for others) and that La Liga wasn't relying on it but mainly relying on pretty much every other leagues.
yeah but Ronaldo is only great cause of English football!!
 
yeah but Ronaldo is only great cause of English football!!

Due to 3 posts a day limit, this is the first chance I’ve had to reply to this, but why are you twisting my words around?

How can you say Manchester United and English football deserve no credit for how C. Ronaldo has developed? For 1 would C.Ronaldo have still gone on to become the physical specimen he is today without English football (big part of his game)?

Would De Gea still have gone on to become arguably the best goalkeeper in the world if it wasn’t for him playing his trade in the Premier League? I highly doubt it personally, i suspect he would still be skinny and terrible crosses if he was still playing his trade in the Spanish league in the same way many seasoned Spanish based goalkeepers are.

I’m not saying these players now have a St George’s Cross wrapped around them and English football is solely responsible for who they are today, all I’m saying English football deserve ‘credit’ as an English clubs time/money and coaching along with them playing in English footballing culture week in week out went a long way into making these players the players they are today.
 
Due to 3 posts a day limit, this is the first chance I’ve had to reply to this, but why are you twisting my words around?

How can you say Manchester United and English football deserve no credit for how C. Ronaldo has developed? For 1 would C.Ronaldo have still gone on to become the physical specimen he is today without English football (big part of his game)?

Would De Gea still have gone on to become arguably the best goalkeeper in the world if it wasn’t for him playing his trade in the Premier League? I highly doubt it personally, i suspect he would still be skinny and terrible crosses if he was still playing his trade in the Spanish league in the same way many seasoned Spanish based goalkeepers are.

I’m not saying these players now have a St George’s Cross wrapped around them and English football is solely responsible for who they are today, all I’m saying English football deserve ‘credit’ as an English clubs time/money and coaching along with them playing in English footballing culture week in week out went a long way into making these players the players they are today.
I'd say you're talking nonsense, really. It's also impossible to prove.

It's as if you think Ronaldo suddenly stopped improving the moment he left the PL, or La Liga has never produced great goalkeeper's.

Let's be clear, SAF did a great job with Ronaldo, we don't know for certain if he would've become the same player at another club (club being the word here, not country), sure, but attributing his standing now to 'English football' is crazy. Credit Man Utd and the greatest manager ever, maybe, not English football.

De Gea, again, it's so naive to think the "toughness" of the PL made him the GK he is now, it's as if you've never seen the Italian league or La Liga before. I'd say he's another case, like Ronaldo, of being at a giant club with a great manager.

You and others seem to be confused here, there's a different between a player being trained at one of the world's biggest clubs with huge resources and great staff, and being trained by 'English football'.

Besides, it's also all a bit silly, using one of the best player's ever and the best GK in the world as an example is pretty lame, where are all these other quality footballer's who become great in the PL. In fact, I don't even know what you're trying to argue, the whole original point was that there's more talent in countries like Spain and Germany for English clubs to pluck players from than there is in Britain for foreign clubs.
 
Tottenhams 1st 11 didn't cost much to put together but generally yes

This actually made me curious, Tottenhams team that defeated Real cost around 105-110 mil pounds to put together. The most expensive player being Sanchez 40mil and the cheapest being Trippier at 3.5mil.