Mourinho : "Transfer spend is not enough"

[Ishdalar]

Probably a combination of all the factors that both of you mentioned. I would imagine the scouting's been a problem but it's hard to really discern how much at this club. There's no way to tell how much of the waste when it comes to transfers has come down to lack of proper scouting and how much of it has come down to Moyes/LVG/Mourinho not going with recommendations from scouts.

Scouting is just half of the job, and rumours about players United were linked with at least show that we're not shooting blindly, Sergi Roberto or Perisic for example are guys that have been playing good this season and United was trying to sign them to some extent.

The problem is not only finding talent, is getting rid of all the players you have in the squad instead of hoarding them to see who works better through the season. The amount of depth this squad has is only comparable to the mediocrity of a lot of those players in those positions.

7 players can play as either CB or L/RB, but none of them has really shown United quality in a consistent basis (Bailly, Lindelof, Jones, Rojo, Smalling, Blind, Darmian).
8 players could "potentially" play as DM, but only Matic and an aging Carrick really would be good enough to play 50 games a season at top level
Pogba is the only player you would play 100% of the time in the midfield along those DM, then you have...
7 players fighting for the remaining 3 spots betweeb Pogba/DM and the ST (Herrera Fellaini, Mkhi, Mata, Martial, Lingard, Rashford)

Striker and GK are the only spots balanced with 2 solid options and players that can fill the role good if there's a catastrophe.

I look at this squad and I don't really get if this is a roster designed to fight for titles, or just the queue for tryouts in the X Factor EPL edition. You want to sign good players like Perisic or star players? Then you need to let go the dead wood in the team, if Mourinho had been coaching City for the last 2 seasons he probably wouldn't risk to let go in a couple windows players like Jovetic, Dzeko, Bony, Nasri, Zabaleta, Clichy, Sagna or Hart. They weren't really worse than Valencia, Young or Fellaini but like we say in our town "Let people leave before entering"

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Maybe in euros

They wanted from us at least 90m €. They sold him to Chelsea for less. And we paid even less for Lukaku given the money Everton owed us.

 

[Kush]

It's more than enough to challenge and play great attacking football.

Lindelof is taking ages to settle in.

Surprised to see this sort of post coming from you, squad is good enough to play attacking football sure but to challenge City who are on 55 points from 57?

As for Lindelof taking time to settle, why is it a surprise that a foreign player is taking time?

 

[whatwha]

So how much does he need to spend to beat Leicester or Burnley?

He needs to STFU and get this team playing or GTFO. Mkhitaryan started the season on fire and Mourinho is responsible for sustaining that form, not grinding his confidence down before pushing him out of the squad. In fact I'd say alot of his signings have started really well before going South under his instruction. And now he wants more money to buy ready-made players to grind down.

Not sure Mourinho can be blamed for Mkhi's declining form. He got plenty of playing time, for too long really, while not performing.

 

[Red_toad]

Matic has been very good overall.

When it comes to Pogba, though, let’s be brutally honest, he’s been a big disappointment relative to the huge outlay involved. Let’s not even get to comparing him against some of his top peers from rival teams.

Mourinho’s transfers to date are worryingly poor and it’s concerning that he’s talking about needing a significant refit to get us playing properly.

Pogba has been very good this season and is a vital component in the team. He's not performed as well as Matic but he's hardly a big disappointment. I believe Jose' buys have been pretty decent, as he said we have to pay more, as clubs won't sell for less to us.
We're probably 2 players away from having an excellent team, Jose is angling to get a few players in this window, I hope he gets his way as I don't want another managerial change and yet another merry go round of players and philosophies.

 

[Giggzy P]

It's not the boards fault he buys average players like Mhkitaryan, Lindelof and Lukaku for big money.

He should do his fecking homework before moaning. Lazy comments from the boss.

Every manager is bound to make a bad signing or two, but unfortunately for Jose, the last 2 managers left the squad with a lot of average players that the team can't afford a bad signing. Safe certainly made quite a few signings but he teams could survive them because there was enough quality in them.

 

[milemuncher777]

Very inappropriate timing from Jose to make this point.
I mean he should concentrate on rectifying troublesome tactical issues like putting Lukaku at defending set pieces, playing two no.9's at LW and starting out of form Rojo instead of Lindelof. Rectify all these and we'd be instantly better.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

People need to also factor in the fact City have been operating with a D.O.F and a harmonious transfer plan for 7 seasons. United since Fergie and Gill retired have been struggling to build a new identity.

 

[MJJ]

Yeah, sell all the sqaud players but then replace them with what transfer budget He has had enough transfer budget for 7 incoming players, I'm not sure how he can buy any more players by getting a few quid for selling Blind, Fellaini and others.

Fact is we are 2nd biggest spender (way behind biggest spender) since last 5 years and right now weare 2nd in the league (way behind biggest spender). Is that a coincident?

Going by that logic, you should be rating poch a lot more since his spurs have grossly over performed their expected target over the past couple of years.

 

[SAFicus]

City had De Bruyne, Aguero and Silva. Three world class players when Pep arrived. How many outfield world class players did we have?

How many of our attackers would get in any of the other top 6 sides? I’d say none. Jose issue is he hasn’t improved a poor shot shy attack. He just replaced Ibrahimovic with Lukaku from last year.

First paragraph is spot on. We had no world class outfield players before Jose joined and sp for that alone the man should get more credit. Also people seem to forget Jose was at Chelsea and knew the sorts of figures being quoted for top players. From what he is saying now how much would Torres have cost United, we already wonder what RM wanted from us for Morata. If we have to pay a few million for being United and City don't then the respective spending needs to be considered in context. Take 20% off our spend as a success tax or something then look at them.

Second is utter nonsense. To say none of our attackers would get in a top six is ludicrous. Also replacing Zlatan is a problem of Jose's own making. It may have been his best option at the time, but he signed a 30+ year old which you will always need to replace sooner or later (still a very good signing, but you can't use it to justify future spend).


All in all This season is still a huge improvement on last. We have signed another world class player in Lukaku and I am firmly behind Mourinho as manager. Think more people should be. What do they want? Moyes back because he hasn't been sacked by West Ham yet?

 

[sammsky1]

We have to stick with Jose though thick and thin. He is trying to rebuild us as we chase City that are in the 7th year of a solid 7 season plan that didn't get interrupted by philosophy upheaval.

Made even worse by fact that we went backwards for 3 full years.

Anti Mourinho wont ever admit this, even though it's so blatant and logical. .

And then we'll hear some other aimless bravado like 'We are Manchester United blah' despite the reality that this club doesn't exist right now.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Bottom line, ain't it?

Give the manager, whoever he is, time. That's my stance and has been ever since Fergie retired. Let him build a team according to his standards and methods.

No problem. Patience is my middle name compared to certain posters on here.

But the moment you even suggestively use “lack of funds” as an excuse for not challenging properly, not playing cohesive attacking football, not having a squad versatile or big enough to compensate for central players being injured – well, that's when I call bollocks.

The Glazers have done a lot of things. Depending on who you ask, they've done a lot of bad things too (essentially stopped funding what was more of a “family club” prior to the takeover) – but they certainly haven't been stingy with the transfer budget as such post Fergie. Nobody can claim that. There are posters on here who seem to peddle the idea that we simply can't compete with City anymore, because they've spent X millions more than we have on players – and feckknowswhat on full backs, not least – making the task essentially impossible even for the person still hailed (by those posters) as the greatest manager in the world.

The greatest manager in the world doesn't need to outspend his rivals. The actual greatest manager in the world did not outspend his rivals when push came to shove.

You don't need money to organize an attack. You need extreme amounts of money to “build” a side capable of beating anyone if you don't know how to drill attacking moves – that's the plain truth of the matter.

Good post.

 

[Summit]

People need to also factor in the fact City have been operating with a D.O.F and a harmonious transfer plan for 7 seasons. United since Fergie and Gill retired have been struggling to build a new identity.

That's because every manager that comes in has their own ideas of what direction and what players we need. A DOF is a must for me.

 

[whatwha]

They wanted from us at least 90m €. They sold him to Chelsea for less. And we paid even less for Lukaku given the money Everton owed us.

Yes they wanted slightly more from us than what they sold him for to Chelsea. So let's say they stood firm on €90m from us (including addons). That's £79m. So £9m more, far from 30m like you said. And what are you talking about, money Everton owed us? It's not like Lukaku cost less because of that. We're paying up to £90m for him, which is a ridiculous waste.

 

[Feed Me]

Pogba has been very good this season and is a vital component in the team. He's not performed as well as Matic but he's hardly a big disappointment. I believe Jose' buys have been pretty decent, as he said we have to pay more, as clubs won't sell for less to us.
We're probably 2 players away from having an excellent team, Jose is angling to get a few players in this window, I hope he gets his way as I don't want another managerial change and yet another merry go round of players and philosophies.

Pogba has been okay overall. Nowhere near the level of the top performers in the PL.

I honestly don’t think Jose has the stomach for the fight - doesn’t look to me as though he’ll stick his current deal out.

 

[sammsky1]

Going by that logic, you should be rating poch a lot more since his spurs have grossly over performed their expected target over the past couple of years.

I think Poch is a good manager, but that Spurs is about his level.

And until he wins something, he is no different to all the other bright young managers who have briefly lit up the stage.

And so totally unsuited at a club.like ours where knowing how to win things should be a prerequisite.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

Lukaku is looking like being a massive mistake. He's just a big lump worse than Heskey.

 

[Pyroblazer]

The amount he has spent is not enough. Look at City. We can say look at how much Pep has spent, but the fact is players like de bruyne, sterling and otamendi were bought just the year before. City were already up there. Moyes and van gaal had destroyed us in comparison.

And yet somehow shitty van Gaal finished on the same points as the amazing City side Pep inherited. Why did we sack him exactly?

Seriously some here should have a look at older threads and see how the city side was judged. Still in his first season people mocked Pep for his comments about the PL not all that challenging and predicted him to struggle because he now has a side who isn't anywhere as good as he used to and where he doesn't have everything already in place.
Their squad was ageing, their defence was shambles, he added 2 flops in Stones and Bravo, a lot of ageeing players past their best like Toure and Silva, Sterling was considered shit etc...
Pep added what he needed, made Silva and De Bruyne work at CMs and pushing them to their highest level, improving guys like Otamendi, Stones or Sterling and even Delph just works well at LB. Sadly the biggest difference is the manager and the gap between us and City has opened up by a big margin which isn't in relation to what we spend. Jose knows the league and still somehow finished not only behind Pep in his first season but also watched like the other new guy in the league (Conte) wins it comfortable. It must be frustrating for him, but his comments don't help, he needs to do better.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Pep has come into an already pretty good team, has made adjustments to the squad where it was needed. They were already an attacking team and he has made them at times unplayable.
Jose is the third manager to come in, with a third different idea of how we should be playing, so the squad has been added to with regards to the needs of each particular manager. Is it any wonder our squad is so fractured and some do not suit our tactics?

I have always been someone who backed Jose, but I am not sure I like the way we are going regarding the style. I do not like possession for possessions sake, but I do like pace and moving the ball quickly, wide men who can run at fullbacks, fullbacks who can overlap and put a accurate cross in. Forwards who move to make space for themselves and an option for a pass. The fact he is desperate to keep Fellaini, who seems to be getting a bit big for his boots, is not a good sign as I am sure there are better, more versatile players out there than him if we can actually be bothered to look.

 

[Bojan11]

First paragraph is spot on. We had no world class outfield players before Jose joined and sp for that alone the man should get more credit. Also people seem to forget Jose was at Chelsea and knew the sorts of figures being quoted for top players. From what he is saying now how much would Torres have cost United, we already wonder what RM wanted from us for Morata. If we have to pay a few million for being United and City don't then the respective spending needs to be considered in context. Take 20% off our spend as a success tax or something then look at them.

Second is utter nonsense. To say none of our attackers would get in a top six is ludicrous. Also replacing Zlatan is a problem of Jose's own making. It may have been his best option at the time, but he signed a 30+ year old which you will always need to replace sooner or later (still a very good signing, but you can't use it to justify future spend).


All in all This season is still a huge improvement on last. We have signed another world class player in Lukaku and I am firmly behind Mourinho as manager. Think more people should be. What do they want? Moyes back because he hasn't been sacked by West Ham yet?

Ok name the attackers from our team that would get in the other top 6 teams? I’m very interested to hear. Lukaku isn’t better than Kane or Aguero. He wouldn’t suit Liverpool. Not sure Chelsea fans would prefer him to Morata or likewise Arsenal with Lacazette.

Then you have our piss poor wide options. City have Sane and Sterling who would walk in our team. Liverpool have Mane and Salah. Arsenal have Sanchez. Spurs have Son. Hazard, Pedro and William would walk into our teams.

Then at number 10 we have Mata and Lingard, I’d take Coutinho, De Bruyne, Eriksen and Ozil. So maybe you can enlighten me about these world class attackers we have? Because I’m not seeing much.

 

[Im red2]

So, he's saying he is not good enough as the manager of the club.

Same impression I got.

 

[Lash]

I have to say he has a point, how can our squad be so threadbare when pogba gets banned or martial is out. We struggle to get results when one attacking player doesn't perform that well.

 

[Manchester Dan]

Nah, its' perfectly fair. As someone else said, you had a better squad than us and still spent more. We needed a midfielder and striker badly, which were key positions and hence the bulk of the spend went on 2 players alone.

And now, you are apparently going for Van Dijk, with Alexis lined up next summer. Pep is a kid in a candy shop for sure.

Secondly, it is well accepted that our recruitment has been poor prior to Jose due to the past 2 managers being utterly incompetent. So Shaw not being up to scratch is no surprise.

Absolutely your recruitment has been poor, so to blame City’s spending is wide of the mark. It’s YOUR spending that’s to blame. You’ve got one of the most expensive squads in world football and he wants to point to finger at spending. Pointing the finger at spending of previous managers at YOUR club at your club would be more accurate.

We agree.

 

[The Cat]

The fact is they could have doubled the transfer spend but if City had still got the players they wanted they would still be romping it. We've bought some turkeys and that is that.

We are in a period of catchup and I would rather we don't bankrupt the club trying to make it happen earlier than possible.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

My god I like José, but he isn't half coming across as a whinny bitch here! He needs to shut the feck up and do what great managers do, which is get the absolute most out of the players he's got at his disposal. Fergie did it for countless seasons! When it was clear we needed investment during the early stages of the glazer takeover, you never caught Fergie crying did you? Nope, no value in the market then. Also, what message does it send out to the players that the manager is publicly saying they aren't good enough? Just fecking shut and be that great manager you think you are, Jose

This is the thing that is beginning to bother me as well.

 

[2mufc0]

We've spent our fair share of money but spent it poorly, Mourinho and the board need to take responsibility for this.

 

[sammsky1]

the other irony is people salivating over January incoming transfer possibilities and simultaneously getting all uppity because Mourinho has the temerity to ask for the transfer funds.

This forum has gone bonkers.

 

[MJJ]

I think Poch is a good manager, but that Spurs is about his level.

And until he wins something, he is no different to all the other bright young managers who have briefly lit up the stage.

And so totally unsuited at a club.like ours where knowing how to win things should be a prerequisite.

But if he has got spurs to massively out perform their expect target position which a great manager like mourinho is doing then doesn't that suggest that he is a great manager too? Since money is directly correlated to finishing position?

 

[haram]

And yet somehow shitty van Gaal finished on the same points as the amazing City side Pep inherited. Why did we sack him exactly?

Seriously some here should have a look at older threads and see how the city side was judged. Still in his first season people mocked Pep for his comments about the PL not all that challenging and predicted him to struggle because he now has a side who isn't anywhere as good as he used to and where he doesn't have everything already in place.
Their squad was ageing, their defence was shambles, he added 2 flops in Stones and Bravo, a lot of ageeing players past their best like Toure and Silva, Sterling was considered shit etc...
Pep added what he needed, made Silva and De Bruyne work at CMs and pushing them to their highest level, improving guys like Otamendi, Stones or Sterling and even Delph just works well at LB. Sadly the biggest difference is the manager and the gap between us and City has opened up by a big margin which isn't in relation to what we spend. Jose knows the league and still somehow finished not only behind Pep in his first season but also watched like the other new guy in the league (Conte) wins it comfortable. It must be frustrating for him, but his comments don't help, he needs to do better.

The fact is a large portion of our spend is on Pogba and Lukaku. Pep didnt have to spend money to sign de bruyne and aguero. They were already there. On top of that they continued their spending under pep. That's why our spending is not enough. We were behind them already to begin with.

 

[JPRouve]

This is why I never watch his interviews. Better read them than to listen to his depressing voice finding excuses after excuses, with very little will to admit his shortcomings.

The portuguese Laurent Blanc.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

We've spent a lot of money. What does Jose want?

Maybe he shouldn't give the green light to spend 75 mil on Lukaku.

 

[liamp]

Scouting is just half of the job, and rumours about players United were linked with at least show that we're not shooting blindly, Sergi Roberto or Perisic for example are guys that have been playing good this season and United was trying to sign them to some extent.

The problem is not only finding talent, is getting rid of all the players you have in the squad instead of hoarding them to see who works better through the season. The amount of depth this squad has is only comparable to the mediocrity of a lot of those players in those positions.

7 players can play as either CB or L/RB, but none of them has really shown United quality in a consistent basis (Bailly, Lindelof, Jones, Rojo, Smalling, Blind, Darmian).
8 players could "potentially" play as DM, but only Matic and an aging Carrick really would be good enough to play 50 games a season at top level
Pogba is the only player you would play 100% of the time in the midfield along those DM, then you have...
7 players fighting for the remaining 3 spots betweeb Pogba/DM and the ST (Herrera Fellaini, Mkhi, Mata, Martial, Lingard, Rashford)

Striker and GK are the only spots balanced with 2 solid options and players that can fill the role good if there's a catastrophe.

I look at this squad and I don't really get if this is a roster designed to fight for titles, or just the queue for tryouts in the X Factor EPL edition. You want to sign good players like Perisic or star players? Then you need to let go the dead wood in the team, if Mourinho had been coaching City for the last 2 seasons he probably wouldn't risk to let go in a couple windows players like Jovetic, Dzeko, Bony, Nasri, Zabaleta, Clichy, Sagna or Hart. They weren't really worse than Valencia, Young or Fellaini but like we say in our town "Let people leave before entering"

Completely agree that this isn't a harmonious squad. That's been discussed ad nauseam. The bolded part is much more difficult in execution than it is in principle.

It's extremely difficult to just get rid of the dead wood, given how much we pay them. Players like Darmian, Blind, Shaw, Fellaini, etc. are generally on between 70-80k per week. Those types of players are more likely to just run out their contracts than be sold to another club where they'd make a fraction of their current wages. Even if they are sold, they'd be sold for peanuts. I remember people thinking we'd get a decent price for Rooney when we were willing to throw in a bag of footballs for free if someone would take his wages off of our hands. I wonder if part of the problem is Mourinho's philosophy that he won't sell a player unless that player wants to leave. Whether that's just good PR or the actual truth, it really does feel that way.

In the example you provided, City weren't able to let Zabaleta, Clichy or Sagna go before their contracts expired. They're in the same situation with Hart, where they'll just keep loaning him out until his 120k per week deal runs out in 2019. One of the huge downsides of spending as poorly as United have over the past 4 years is that it's unbelievably difficult to churn your squad when you pay the types of wages and fees that clubs like us or City do.

 

[Im red2]

I think we buy players according to their reputation in the press. That obviously means that our scouts are shite. I also think that Woodward is more interested in the financial side of things than he is in the football side of things He has done great work in that area without a doubt.As for City they are backed up by a sugar daddy, while United are backed up by themselves. With some cash leaving the club. We need to make signings based on skill and not so much on reputations as put forward by the press. I think the United system needs a total overhaul.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The fact is they could have doubled the transfer spend but if City had still got the players they wanted they would still be romping it. We've bought some turkeys and that is that.

We are in a period of catchup and I would rather we don't bankrupt the club trying to make it happen earlier than possible.

We have bought some bad players, but also overpaid for Pogba and Lukaku. Juventus and Everton must have seen us coming. They were statement buys to show how much money we have. Surely with better scouting and less bragging we could have picked up players who would have done as good a job for nowhere near the money.
I can see us making the same kind of statement buy in the summer. I would rather buy players who are much nearer the finished article than keep getting rinsed for potential and then not being able to nurture it properly. Which I am not sure Jose is the man to do that.

 

[shamans]

Yes two games where our players should have finished better. Burnley had 3 shots yet scored 2. We just not ruthless enough in front of goal and I believe that is down to personal.

That Jose was responsible for. Your argument makes no sense. You'er saying the amount of money we have spent is not enough to buy players that could beat the teams we drew?

 

[leontas]

I can’t really accept this excuse. He’s spent nearly £300mil since taking over. He could’ve done some proper scouting and bought players that fitted his style. For that amount of money, he could’ve moulded the team in his image but instead we still have a mix of average and good players. More importantly, however, we still play players out of position and lack any sort of cohesion in midfield and attack. How much money does he need to spend to get it right?

 

[sammsky1]

We've spent our fair share of money but spent it poorly, LVG and the board need to take responsibility for this.

Fixed it for you.

Its LVG's investments that have dramatically failed to deliver any decent return on investment.

 

[Feed Me]

I can’t really accept this excuse. He’s spent nearly £300mil since taking over. He could’ve done some proper scouting and bought players that fitted his style. For that amount of money, he could’ve moulded the team in his image but instead we still have a mix of average and good players. More importantly, however, we still play players out of position and lack any sort of cohesion in midfield and attack. How much money does he need to spend to get it right?

It’s worrying that he wants to spend another small fortune and will probably be gone in less than a year and a half.

 

[Cardiff_Boy]

I agree but my view is that we still need to purge some players who are not of United quality - For example Blind, Rojo from Van Gaal era and bring in quality players who will complement Pogba and Lukaku (given that they are the future). Still need to get one defender, RWB and a proper number 10/ RWF before we can match city

 

[haram]

We've spent a lot of money. What does Jose want?

Maybe he shouldn't give the green light to spend 75 mil on Lukaku.

And we are second. Behind a City team that has spent a lot and will continue to spend. If people think we can win the league with what we have spent they are deluded. We were fighting for top 4 before and some of the players we signed especially under van gaal were only good enough for that. Not good enough to win the league.

Jose has not even signed a single fullback. We are using wingers there. The actual fullbacks in Darmian and Blind are not championship winning level. Pep got rid of Kolarov and Zabaleta. That's the difference.