Yes, being more accurate and not scoring means nothing.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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We're discussing who is better at free kicks, not who is more clutch. Messi has scored 32 goals, not 20 like Peyroteo if we consider all competitions. 12 more freekicks is not a small difference and surely he would have a better conversion ratio(you can check data on transfermarkt).
I didn't say he's much better than Ronaldo at freekicks, only better as conversion rate with complete numbers show.
Being more accurate means exist more % of that free kick became a goal. Messi is more acurrate so that means that when he take a free kick exist a great % that he will score.
One could think that Messi scoring more every year as he gets sharper, and Ronaldo scoring less as he started trading accuracy for power could say something about that.
How is free kick taking even a debate anymore? Ronaldo is a joke at them in recent seasons and Messi just keeps getting better.
Because Messi's free kicks are far more accurate. A high proportion of the ones that he has missed are either saved (& not comfortably saved btw), narrowly miss the post/bar or indeed hit the post/bar.As pointed out many times in this very thread, their freekick conversion ratio in the past decade is quite similar, so I don't know how you arrived at "he's much more likely to score than Ronaldo".
A very high proportion of Ronaldo's hit the proverbial barn door; particularly in recent seasons.
With a similar conversion rate, it's blatantly a lie to say Messi is more likely to score.
By exactly the same sentiments, you can’t say one is a better goal scorer than the other.
Please just nuke this thread.
Yeah, it's like the walking dead now.
At least have a poll, and then reset the thing.
so Barcelona would have all titles they won with Messi against a Real Madrid spearheaded by Cristiano?[/QUOTE]
Because Messi performs just as well against the top English sides.
That's not how probability works.
How many times has messi played against a top English side ?
Ronny proved himself in the toughest league in the world week after week month after month at United.
Both are great players but Ronaldo has shown he can do it in England and in Spain and at international level.
Even now with his powers waining he would still be top scorer in the Prem
I find the whole "never played in the PL" argument ridiculous. I've watch Messi absolutely toy with PL teams in the Champions league on multiple occasions but he never did it vs the mighty Watford or Crystal Palace...
Also, do people not realise how gash the standard of defending in this league is outside the top sides?
Also, do people not realise how gash the standard of defending in this league is outside the top sides?
Messi with Barcelona would obviously be just as good in England but I'd love to see Messi in England with a team that played different style of football. He seems a lot more suited to possession football than he is to a direct and physical style, I think that's what people mean when they make the England comparisons.
No doubt he'd still be incredible but it would be interesting to see how much would change and how he'd adapt.
No doubt he'd still be incredible but it would be interesting to see how much would change and how he'd adapt.
He still would be incredible but he would in no way be putting up numbers like at Barcelona that is a bet I would be willing to make. The proof is in Argentina as an example different style and though he is still amazing its not the Extraterrestrial force you see at Barca. Messi in Liverpool Arsenal or any other big team in England would not be as good as Barcelona he was made for that system. We will never know though. What we do know is Ronaldo is proven in Spain which has been his playground, England which he made his playground, And Portugal where time and time again he shows up for and Won a major tournament. Saying that though both are easily in the TOP 5 all time for me.
Some people here say that they score at the same rate, and it can be true. The difference is that while Messi makes big stats scoring 4/5 goals to the small teams in Copa del Rey and La Liga, Ronaldo scores them in the UCL, and specially in the knockout stages. He has been the top goalscorer in UCL the last 7 years in a row, has the record of most goals in a UCL tournament with 17, twice! (Messi's best in history was 14 once, and 2nd best is 11). 3 years ago they were tied in the race for being the top goalscorer in history of the UCL, today Ronaldo has 117 and Messi 100.
An amazing fact is that Ronaldo only with Real Madrid has 102 goals in Champions League, 2 more than Messi with Barca with 5 seasons less played.
Also some people here say he 'only scores goals', so please explain how Cristiano has the all time record of more assists in the UCL history? The phrase 'he is older' is invalid when you only take into account the stats since he joined Madrid, and you see he has 27 assists vs Messi's 20.
Here I leave some stats of UCL since Ronaldo plays in Madrid to make a real comparison of how they develop in the most important club tournament in the world, vs the best teams in Europe and the world:
Stats since Ronaldo arrived to Real Madrid:
Messi Cristiano
UCL
Games played: 90 96
Minutes played: 7668 8538
Goals scored: 83 102
Goals/min avg: 0.92 1.06
Assists: 20 28
Some more global stats with clubs...
All their goals in UCL are divided like this:
Messi Cristiano
Total goals in UCL: 100 117
Goals group stage: 61 60
Goals in last 16: 22 20
Goals in last 8: 11 20
Goals in semifinals: 4 13
Goals in finals: 2 4 (5 if we take the last penalty kick that gave RM their 11 UCL)
Goals in KO stages: 39 57
Goals by free kick: 3 12
Then you see that Messi has 47 goals in La Copa del Rey in 67 games vs Ronaldo's 22 goals in 30 games, a tournament that would be the equivalent to the FA Cup where you play all the games till you get the semifinals vs teams of 2nd and 3rd division, and that obviously helps him.
Don't get me wrong, both are exceptional players, bit some people out there want to compare their stats including Cristiano's time in Sporting FC and in Man Utd. Its much more fair to compare them since they play in similar level teams in offence and the same league, without forgetting that CR7 got to RM when they were a team that wasn't even one of the 8 heads of the groups in the UCL because they haven't passed the last 16 round for ages, while Messi was playing in Pep Guardiola's Barca, the best Barca ever.
Messi is a better playmaker, a better passer, a better dribbler, better making their teammates play as a team, and an amazing goalscorer.
Cristiano is better with his head, with his weak foot, counterattacking, off the ball, has more power that makes him amazing in attacking AND defending in set pieces, and a slightly better goalscorer, but I think where he has the biggest pro, is that always appears and is much more decisive in the important matches, specially in the knockout phases, than Messi.
Still it depends on each person taste and I respect all of them, but there were so much false facts that people say in this thread without making any kind of research, that I prefer to take the time and put the real facts on the table.
An amazing fact is that Ronaldo only with Real Madrid has 102 goals in Champions League, 2 more than Messi with Barca with 5 seasons less played.
Also some people here say he 'only scores goals', so please explain how Cristiano has the all time record of more assists in the UCL history? The phrase 'he is older' is invalid when you only take into account the stats since he joined Madrid, and you see he has 27 assists vs Messi's 20.
Here I leave some stats of UCL since Ronaldo plays in Madrid to make a real comparison of how they develop in the most important club tournament in the world, vs the best teams in Europe and the world:
Stats since Ronaldo arrived to Real Madrid:
Messi Cristiano
UCL
Games played: 90 96
Minutes played: 7668 8538
Goals scored: 83 102
Goals/min avg: 0.92 1.06
Assists: 20 28
Some more global stats with clubs...
All their goals in UCL are divided like this:
Messi Cristiano
Total goals in UCL: 100 117
Goals group stage: 61 60
Goals in last 16: 22 20
Goals in last 8: 11 20
Goals in semifinals: 4 13
Goals in finals: 2 4 (5 if we take the last penalty kick that gave RM their 11 UCL)
Goals in KO stages: 39 57
Goals by free kick: 3 12
Then you see that Messi has 47 goals in La Copa del Rey in 67 games vs Ronaldo's 22 goals in 30 games, a tournament that would be the equivalent to the FA Cup where you play all the games till you get the semifinals vs teams of 2nd and 3rd division, and that obviously helps him.
Don't get me wrong, both are exceptional players, bit some people out there want to compare their stats including Cristiano's time in Sporting FC and in Man Utd. Its much more fair to compare them since they play in similar level teams in offence and the same league, without forgetting that CR7 got to RM when they were a team that wasn't even one of the 8 heads of the groups in the UCL because they haven't passed the last 16 round for ages, while Messi was playing in Pep Guardiola's Barca, the best Barca ever.
Messi is a better playmaker, a better passer, a better dribbler, better making their teammates play as a team, and an amazing goalscorer.
Cristiano is better with his head, with his weak foot, counterattacking, off the ball, has more power that makes him amazing in attacking AND defending in set pieces, and a slightly better goalscorer, but I think where he has the biggest pro, is that always appears and is much more decisive in the important matches, specially in the knockout phases, than Messi.
Still it depends on each person taste and I respect all of them, but there were so much false facts that people say in this thread without making any kind of research, that I prefer to take the time and put the real facts on the table.
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Aaaaand after @Cezzine brilliant post you may close the thread, further discussion will become moot.
Great post. I agree that Ronaldo's biggest advantage is in the big CL games. His record from the CL quarters to the CL final dwarfs Messi's. And it is not because he has palyed with better teammates than Messi. Still, Messi is the better footballer but he is not as mentaly strong as Ronaldo.
actually, the clubs Messi most often scores against are Barca's biggest rivals, not the small clubs like Levante which is being implied here and which is a lie, tbf. most of Messi's goals were scored against Madrid and Atletico + Sevilla, Valencia & Bilbao, the strongest clubs in Spain.
if you did the same stats for Ronaldo, there would be Getafe, Wigan and Bolton on the top (my guess), as I don't recall him ever being that good against Liverpool or Chelsea when he was playing for us, like Messi is against Madrid or Atletico. not even close.
so no, Messi's stats aren't even close to being dependent on playing against small teams.
if you did the same stats for Ronaldo, there would be Getafe, Wigan and Bolton on the top (my guess), as I don't recall him ever being that good against Liverpool or Chelsea when he was playing for us, like Messi is against Madrid or Atletico. not even close.
so no, Messi's stats aren't even close to being dependent on playing against small teams.
Thanks for a good post.
There is no doubt that Ronaldo has proven him self better in the last KO stages in the UCL! In comparison, Ronaldo scores every 107 min. While Messi scores every 128 min. in the KO stages.
But in terms of total minutes played and goals scored in the UCL, Messi is slightly better as he scores a goal every 101 minute while Ronaldo scores every 109 minute.
Nailed it
Thing is, look at that game from Messi in 2008 at Old Trafford posted on the last page; no goals, no assists but he absolutely terrorised our defence. It doesn't turn up in that list of numbers.
If he played for City I think he would put up Barca numbers definitely. You honestly think if Salah and Kane can put up big numbers then Messi can't? Everyone's numbers go down at international level, including the likes of Ronaldo & Kane and they get to play against teams of the calibre of Andorra, Lichtenstein, Faroe Islands, Gibraltar in qualification which South American players don't.
The best teams play in the CL, and Messi has scored 19 goals in his last 18 games against PL sides in the CL.
To suggest that he couldn’t do it week in week out against English clubs is ludicrous, especially considering the fact I have just given.
Aguero has been tearing up the PL for years now after moving from Spain. And Messi is far superior to him.
Suarez tore up the PL and is also great in La Liga. Again Messi is far superior to him.
Diego Costa another top striker in the PL after coming from spain and Messi is far superior to him.
Etc etc.
What a bunch of biased propaganda, lol.
Messi has scored 5 of his 47 goals in Copa against teams that weren't in First division, Benidorm, Cultural Leonesa, Ceuta and 2 vs Cordoba, he only scored 3 goals before R16 which is basically 80% Primera teams.
His record in the cup is:
5 goals in the final, 1 vs Alaves, 4 vs Athletic Bilbao
11 goals in semifinals, 3 vs Valencia, 2 vs Getafe and Almeria, one vs Mallorca, Real Sociedad, Villarreal and Atletico
10 goals in quarterfinals, 4 vs Betis,2 vs Malaga, one vs Atletico, Zaragoza, Real Sociedad and Espanyol
18 goals in Last 16, 4 vs Getafe, 3 vs Atletico, 2 vs Athletic, Celta, Espanyol, Cordoba and Osasuna
There's a gulf between you saying that lower division teams helped him get that record, and then him only scoring 5 against non first division teams and 6 against Athletic or 5 against Atletico alone.
2 months before Pep's arrival to the "best Barça ever"
Obviously, Pep built the best Barça ever from that, it wasn't like Pep used Leo to his full extent in order to build the best Barça ever.
And we can expect Pep to sell Ronaldinho and Deco and turn a team that finished 18 points behind Real Madrid to win a treble, but we can't expect Ronaldo to send Real Madrid past Lyon in the R16 on his first year there while also signing Benzema, Kaka and Alonso, that wouldn't be fair.
It can't be that Pep's Barça was the best ever because he had Messi, it has to be the other way around, just look at all the UCL titles Pep has won without Leo and vice versa
What's your reasoning about better with his weak foot? Leo is 14 goals behind Ronaldo with his weak foot in 150 games less, if he's better, it's marginally.
Why is he better at the counter, because he runs faster? Who'd you rather have in your team, Obafemi Martins or Michael Laudrup as a quintessencial counter attack player?
How is he better off the ball? Because he runs faster at the space? It's not even the same concept as "off the ball"
The power of amazing
Jokes aside, he's indeed a most useful player at set pieces... unless you take into account that if Ronaldo is defending a set piece, Messi is outside the area to launch the counter (and he's good at it, trust me, there's a treble almost won on that), and that where there's a good header, usually you can use a good player crossing it at set pieces, know who's good at crossing from corners?, so in the end both have their effects in set pieces that almost nullifies each other's advantages.
Because he's done it for the past 2 seasons at abnornal rate?, Messi is entering now the age Cristiano had before his Wolfsburg hat-trick, and up until that point their stats are identical.
And then, you're probably forgetting that Leo has been being decisive for almost a decade vs Bayern, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Arsenal, United, PSG or Milan in KO stages, so what, he never put 5 on the same leg vs Bayern? He destroyed them anyway, being decisive itself is not scoring a bunch once the game is over, is doint the most important effort to win it, he has that more than covered.
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You're wrong. Barcelona/Atletico/Sevilla/Valencia will be at the top too because those are the clubs they play more often which means those are the clubs they score more often against
Has there ever been a poll on this thread? Seems the most poll-worthy topic on here.
Perhaps we should have a poll on whether there should be a poll.
Perhaps we should have a poll on whether there should be a poll.
Poll-ception
Opinions like this is the reason.
Again I'll say it's simple. To the human eye Messi is far superior to Ronaldo. It's not even close. Ronaldo (and God knows I'm a fan of his and especially what he done for United) simply doesn't possess the attributes Messi does. Those that he does have over Messi are minimal compared to the other way around. Both are amazing. Ronaldo is in a tier with Pele and Maradona but Messi is above even that. It's not an insult to Ronaldo, he's more than an all time great but just happens to have come along when the best player in history has played. It's nothing to do with stats and trophies (if it were, for example, Ronaldo would never have left United for an inferior Madrid side) it's simply to do with watching them on a football pitch and the result is obvious. Le Tissier was superior to Park Ji Sung for example, won half the trophies and had no Champions League stats but it's obvious to the eye. Funnily enough the iteration of Ronaldo closest to Messi was the United version when he had more to his game than goals. Messi combines the best part of the United Ronaldo with the output of the Madrid Ronaldo. We aren't comparing their teams or trophies, we are comparing them as individuals and Messi's best performances shit all over Ronaldo's ones. However to be fair Messi's best shits all over every players that ever lived.
A more apt comparison would be Scholes and Gazza. Do trophies and success in bug tournaments make you better overall? For what it's worth I feel Scholes was the better player but Gazza should've been if not for his mental problems (Ravel Morrisson anyone?). However in pure talent terms Scholes V Gazza is a lot closer than Ronaldo V Messi.
A more apt comparison would be Scholes and Gazza. Do trophies and success in bug tournaments make you better overall? For what it's worth I feel Scholes was the better player but Gazza should've been if not for his mental problems (Ravel Morrisson anyone?). However in pure talent terms Scholes V Gazza is a lot closer than Ronaldo V Messi.
good post my thoughts entirely but dont come on here talking sense the messi fanboys will be looking for you with their picthforks and torches
Asking what precisely?
Ha ha quite right mate I'm feeling like a human pin cushion
At this point why are we still comparing them? Messi is on another level, you will find footballers in this world currently today who score at a similar rate to Ronaldo, we have about two in the Premier league alone, you won't find anyone who playmakes like Messi while doing so.
It doesn't surprise me that people who hold this opinion also struggle to write legible English.
Noone scores as much as Ronaldo
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