Cal?
CR7 fan
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2002
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Yes, being more accurate and not scoring means nothing.Are you sure about that?
Yes, being more accurate and not scoring means nothing.Are you sure about that?
We're discussing who is better at free kicks, not who is more clutch. Messi has scored 32 goals, not 20 like Peyroteo if we consider all competitions. 12 more freekicks is not a small difference and surely he would have a better conversion ratio(you can check data on transfermarkt).No, it means he sacrificed power for accuracy, but as pointed out, their scoring rate from freekicks is similar.
Except with this game, it's either a goal or nothing, you don't get points for being close.
I just meant that, for top clubs, the league and the CL are by far the most important competitions. IF, and that's an IF because I couldn't find any data on it, Messi needs to count the supercup and cup games to have a better freekick conversion ratio than Ronaldo, he can't be much better. Their record in CL & La Liga is similar.
One could think that Messi scoring more every year as he gets sharper, and Ronaldo scoring less as he started trading accuracy for power could say something about that.Messi's more accurate, noone is denying that. The point is that being more accurate is completely irrelevant.
Because Messi's free kicks are far more accurate. A high proportion of the ones that he has missed are either saved (& not comfortably saved btw), narrowly miss the post/bar or indeed hit the post/bar.As pointed out many times in this very thread, their freekick conversion ratio in the past decade is quite similar, so I don't know how you arrived at "he's much more likely to score than Ronaldo".
With a similar conversion rate, it's blatantly a lie to say Messi is more likely to score.Because Messi's free kicks are far more accurate. A high proportion of the ones that he has missed are either saved (& not comfortably saved btw), narrowly miss the post/bar or indeed hit the post/bar.
A very high proportion of Ronaldo's hit the proverbial barn door; particularly in recent seasons.
What's the conversion rate for this season?With a similar conversion rate, it's blatantly a lie to say Messi is more likely to score.
By exactly the same sentiments, you can’t say one is a better goal scorer than the other.With a similar conversion rate, it's blatantly a lie to say Messi is more likely to score.
http://www.thesignificantgame.com/2018/02/is-cristiano-ronaldo-good-free-kick.htmlHow is free kick taking even a debate anymore? Ronaldo is a joke at them in recent seasons and Messi just keeps getting better.
Yeah, it's like the walking dead now.Please just nuke this thread.
so Barcelona would have all titles they won with Messi against a Real Madrid spearheaded by Cristiano?[/QUOTE]I'm sorry but without Ronnie, we're not winning the CL or most of those league titles. He was unstoppable in England.
Because Messi performs just as well against the top English sides.Why though? In my opinion (which is the basis of the thread) the English league is a stronger league than the Spanish league. Again, not saying Messi is garbage, but if I could choose one out of the two I’d choose Ronaldo.
That's not how probability works.Because Messi's free kicks are far more accurate. A high proportion of the ones that he has missed are either saved (& not comfortably saved btw), narrowly miss the post/bar or indeed hit the post/bar.
A very high proportion of Ronaldo's hit the proverbial barn door; particularly in recent seasons.
How many times has messi played against a top English side ?Because Messi performs just as well against the top English sides.
He still would be incredible but he would in no way be putting up numbers like at Barcelona that is a bet I would be willing to make. The proof is in Argentina as an example different style and though he is still amazing its not the Extraterrestrial force you see at Barca. Messi in Liverpool Arsenal or any other big team in England would not be as good as Barcelona he was made for that system. We will never know though. What we do know is Ronaldo is proven in Spain which has been his playground, England which he made his playground, And Portugal where time and time again he shows up for and Won a major tournament. Saying that though both are easily in the TOP 5 all time for me.Messi with Barcelona would obviously be just as good in England but I'd love to see Messi in England with a team that played different style of football. He seems a lot more suited to possession football than he is to a direct and physical style, I think that's what people mean when they make the England comparisons.
No doubt he'd still be incredible but it would be interesting to see how much would change and how he'd adapt.
Great post. I agree that Ronaldo's biggest advantage is in the big CL games. His record from the CL quarters to the CL final dwarfs Messi's. And it is not because he has palyed with better teammates than Messi. Still, Messi is the better footballer but he is not as mentaly strong as Ronaldo.Some people here say that they score at the same rate, and it can be true. The difference is that while Messi makes big stats scoring 4/5 goals to the small teams in Copa del Rey and La Liga, Ronaldo scores them in the UCL, and specially in the knockout stages. He has been the top goalscorer in UCL the last 7 years in a row, has the record of most goals in a UCL tournament with 17, twice! (Messi's best in history was 14 once, and 2nd best is 11). 3 years ago they were tied in the race for being the top goalscorer in history of the UCL, today Ronaldo has 117 and Messi 100.
An amazing fact is that Ronaldo only with Real Madrid has 102 goals in Champions League, 2 more than Messi with Barca with 5 seasons less played.
Also some people here say he 'only scores goals', so please explain how Cristiano has the all time record of more assists in the UCL history? The phrase 'he is older' is invalid when you only take into account the stats since he joined Madrid, and you see he has 27 assists vs Messi's 20.
Here I leave some stats of UCL since Ronaldo plays in Madrid to make a real comparison of how they develop in the most important club tournament in the world, vs the best teams in Europe and the world:
Stats since Ronaldo arrived to Real Madrid:
Messi Cristiano
UCL
Games played: 90 96
Minutes played: 7668 8538
Goals scored: 83 102
Goals/min avg: 0.92 1.06
Assists: 20 28
Some more global stats with clubs...
All their goals in UCL are divided like this:
Messi Cristiano
Total goals in UCL: 100 117
Goals group stage: 61 60
Goals in last 16: 22 20
Goals in last 8: 11 20
Goals in semifinals: 4 13
Goals in finals: 2 4 (5 if we take the last penalty kick that gave RM their 11 UCL)
Goals in KO stages: 39 57
Goals by free kick: 3 12
Then you see that Messi has 47 goals in La Copa del Rey in 67 games vs Ronaldo's 22 goals in 30 games, a tournament that would be the equivalent to the FA Cup where you play all the games till you get the semifinals vs teams of 2nd and 3rd division, and that obviously helps him.
Don't get me wrong, both are exceptional players, bit some people out there want to compare their stats including Cristiano's time in Sporting FC and in Man Utd. Its much more fair to compare them since they play in similar level teams in offence and the same league, without forgetting that CR7 got to RM when they were a team that wasn't even one of the 8 heads of the groups in the UCL because they haven't passed the last 16 round for ages, while Messi was playing in Pep Guardiola's Barca, the best Barca ever.
Messi is a better playmaker, a better passer, a better dribbler, better making their teammates play as a team, and an amazing goalscorer.
Cristiano is better with his head, with his weak foot, counterattacking, off the ball, has more power that makes him amazing in attacking AND defending in set pieces, and a slightly better goalscorer, but I think where he has the biggest pro, is that always appears and is much more decisive in the important matches, specially in the knockout phases, than Messi.
Still it depends on each person taste and I respect all of them, but there were so much false facts that people say in this thread without making any kind of research, that I prefer to take the time and put the real facts on the table.
Thanks for a good post.Some people here say that they score at the same rate, and it can be true. The difference is that while Messi makes big stats scoring 4/5 goals to the small teams in Copa del Rey and La Liga, Ronaldo scores them in the UCL, and specially in the knockout stages. He has been the top goalscorer in UCL the last 7 years in a row, has the record of most goals in a UCL tournament with 17, twice! (Messi's best in history was 14 once, and 2nd best is 11). 3 years ago they were tied in the race for being the top goalscorer in history of the UCL, today Ronaldo has 117 and Messi 100.
An amazing fact is that Ronaldo only with Real Madrid has 102 goals in Champions League, 2 more than Messi with Barca with 5 seasons less played.
Also some people here say he 'only scores goals', so please explain how Cristiano has the all time record of more assists in the UCL history? The phrase 'he is older' is invalid when you only take into account the stats since he joined Madrid, and you see he has 27 assists vs Messi's 20.
Here I leave some stats of UCL since Ronaldo plays in Madrid to make a real comparison of how they develop in the most important club tournament in the world, vs the best teams in Europe and the world:
Stats since Ronaldo arrived to Real Madrid:
Messi Cristiano
UCL
Games played: 90 96
Minutes played: 7668 8538
Goals scored: 83 102
Goals/min avg: 0.92 1.06
Assists: 20 28
Some more global stats with clubs...
All their goals in UCL are divided like this:
Messi Cristiano
Total goals in UCL: 100 117
Goals group stage: 61 60
Goals in last 16: 22 20
Goals in last 8: 11 20
Goals in semifinals: 4 13
Goals in finals: 2 4 (5 if we take the last penalty kick that gave RM their 11 UCL)
Goals in KO stages: 39 57
Goals by free kick: 3 12
Then you see that Messi has 47 goals in La Copa del Rey in 67 games vs Ronaldo's 22 goals in 30 games, a tournament that would be the equivalent to the FA Cup where you play all the games till you get the semifinals vs teams of 2nd and 3rd division, and that obviously helps him.
Don't get me wrong, both are exceptional players, bit some people out there want to compare their stats including Cristiano's time in Sporting FC and in Man Utd. Its much more fair to compare them since they play in similar level teams in offence and the same league, without forgetting that CR7 got to RM when they were a team that wasn't even one of the 8 heads of the groups in the UCL because they haven't passed the last 16 round for ages, while Messi was playing in Pep Guardiola's Barca, the best Barca ever.
Messi is a better playmaker, a better passer, a better dribbler, better making their teammates play as a team, and an amazing goalscorer.
Cristiano is better with his head, with his weak foot, counterattacking, off the ball, has more power that makes him amazing in attacking AND defending in set pieces, and a slightly better goalscorer, but I think where he has the biggest pro, is that always appears and is much more decisive in the important matches, specially in the knockout phases, than Messi.
Still it depends on each person taste and I respect all of them, but there were so much false facts that people say in this thread without making any kind of research, that I prefer to take the time and put the real facts on the table.
Nailed itactually, the clubs Messi most often scores against are Barca's biggest rivals, not the small clubs like Levante which is being implied here and which is a lie, tbf. most of Messi's goals were scored against Madrid and Atletico + Sevilla, Valencia & Bilbao, the strongest clubs in Spain.
if you did the same stats for Ronaldo, there would be Getafe, Wigan and Bolton on the top (my guess), as I don't recall him ever being that good against Liverpool or Chelsea when he was playing for us, like Messi is against Madrid or Atletico. not even close.
so no, Messi's stats aren't even close to being dependent on playing against small teams.
If he played for City I think he would put up Barca numbers definitely. You honestly think if Salah and Kane can put up big numbers then Messi can't? Everyone's numbers go down at international level, including the likes of Ronaldo & Kane and they get to play against teams of the calibre of Andorra, Lichtenstein, Faroe Islands, Gibraltar in qualification which South American players don't.He still would be incredible but he would in no way be putting up numbers like at Barcelona that is a bet I would be willing to make. The proof is in Argentina as an example different style and though he is still amazing its not the Extraterrestrial force you see at Barca. Messi in Liverpool Arsenal or any other big team in England would not be as good as Barcelona he was made for that system. We will never know though. What we do know is Ronaldo is proven in Spain which has been his playground, England which he made his playground, And Portugal where time and time again he shows up for and Won a major tournament. Saying that though both are easily in the TOP 5 all time for me.
The best teams play in the CL, and Messi has scored 19 goals in his last 18 games against PL sides in the CL.How many times has messi played against a top English side ?
Ronny proved himself in the toughest league in the world week after week month after month at United.
Both are great players but Ronaldo has shown he can do it in England and in Spain and at international level.
What a bunch of biased propaganda, lol.Some people here say that they score at the same rate, and it can be true. The difference is that while Messi makes big stats scoring 4/5 goals to the small teams in Copa del Rey and La Liga, Ronaldo scores them in the UCL, and specially in the knockout stages. He has been the top goalscorer in UCL the last 7 years in a row, has the record of most goals in a UCL tournament with 17, twice! (Messi's best in history was 14 once, and 2nd best is 11). 3 years ago they were tied in the race for being the top goalscorer in history of the UCL, today Ronaldo has 117 and Messi 100.
An amazing fact is that Ronaldo only with Real Madrid has 102 goals in Champions League, 2 more than Messi with Barca with 5 seasons less played.
Also some people here say he 'only scores goals', so please explain how Cristiano has the all time record of more assists in the UCL history? The phrase 'he is older' is invalid when you only take into account the stats since he joined Madrid, and you see he has 27 assists vs Messi's 20.
Here I leave some stats of UCL since Ronaldo plays in Madrid to make a real comparison of how they develop in the most important club tournament in the world, vs the best teams in Europe and the world:
Stats since Ronaldo arrived to Real Madrid:
Messi Cristiano
UCL
Games played: 90 96
Minutes played: 7668 8538
Goals scored: 83 102
Goals/min avg: 0.92 1.06
Assists: 20 28
Some more global stats with clubs...
All their goals in UCL are divided like this:
Messi Cristiano
Total goals in UCL: 100 117
Goals group stage: 61 60
Goals in last 16: 22 20
Goals in last 8: 11 20
Goals in semifinals: 4 13
Goals in finals: 2 4 (5 if we take the last penalty kick that gave RM their 11 UCL)
Goals in KO stages: 39 57
Goals by free kick: 3 12
Then you see that Messi has 47 goals in La Copa del Rey in 67 games vs Ronaldo's 22 goals in 30 games, a tournament that would be the equivalent to the FA Cup where you play all the games till you get the semifinals vs teams of 2nd and 3rd division, and that obviously helps him.
Don't get me wrong, both are exceptional players, bit some people out there want to compare their stats including Cristiano's time in Sporting FC and in Man Utd. Its much more fair to compare them since they play in similar level teams in offence and the same league, without forgetting that CR7 got to RM when they were a team that wasn't even one of the 8 heads of the groups in the UCL because they haven't passed the last 16 round for ages, while Messi was playing in Pep Guardiola's Barca, the best Barca ever.
Messi is a better playmaker, a better passer, a better dribbler, better making their teammates play as a team, and an amazing goalscorer.
Cristiano is better with his head, with his weak foot, counterattacking, off the ball, has more power that makes him amazing in attacking AND defending in set pieces, and a slightly better goalscorer, but I think where he has the biggest pro, is that always appears and is much more decisive in the important matches, specially in the knockout phases, than Messi.
Still it depends on each person taste and I respect all of them, but there were so much false facts that people say in this thread without making any kind of research, that I prefer to take the time and put the real facts on the table.
Messi has scored 5 of his 47 goals in Copa against teams that weren't in First division, Benidorm, Cultural Leonesa, Ceuta and 2 vs Cordoba, he only scored 3 goals before R16 which is basically 80% Primera teams.Then you see that Messi has 47 goals in La Copa del Rey in 67 games vs Ronaldo's 22 goals in 30 games, a tournament that would be the equivalent to the FA Cup where you play all the games till you get the semifinals vs teams of 2nd and 3rd division, and that obviously helps him.
2 months before Pep's arrival to the "best Barça ever"without forgetting that CR7 got to RM when they were a team that wasn't even one of the 8 heads of the groups in the UCL because they haven't passed the last 16 round for ages, while Messi was playing in Pep Guardiola's Barca, the best Barca ever.
What's your reasoning about better with his weak foot? Leo is 14 goals behind Ronaldo with his weak foot in 150 games less, if he's better, it's marginally.Cristiano is better with his head, with his weak foot, counterattacking, off the ball,
The power of amazinghas more power that makes him amazing in attacking AND defending in set pieces
Because he's done it for the past 2 seasons at abnornal rate?, Messi is entering now the age Cristiano had before his Wolfsburg hat-trick, and up until that point their stats are identical.but I think where he has the biggest pro, is that always appears and is much more decisive in the important matches, specially in the knockout phases, than Messi.
You're wrong. Barcelona/Atletico/Sevilla/Valencia will be at the top too because those are the clubs they play more often which means those are the clubs they score more often againstactually, the clubs Messi most often scores against are Barca's biggest rivals, not the small clubs like Levante which is being implied here and which is a lie, tbf. most of Messi's goals were scored against Madrid and Atletico + Sevilla, Valencia & Bilbao, the strongest clubs in Spain.
if you did the same stats for Ronaldo, there would be Getafe, Wigan and Bolton on the top (my guess), as I don't recall him ever being that good against Liverpool or Chelsea when he was playing for us, like Messi is against Madrid or Atletico. not even close.
so no, Messi's stats aren't even close to being dependent on playing against small teams.
Poll-ceptionHas there ever been a poll on this thread? Seems the most poll-worthy topic on here.
Perhaps we should have a poll on whether there should be a poll.
Opinions like this is the reason.How is free kick taking even a debate anymore? Ronaldo is a joke at them in recent seasons and Messi just keeps getting better.
good post my thoughts entirely but dont come on here talking sense the messi fanboys will be looking for you with their picthforks and torchesHow many times has messi played against a top English side ?
Ronny proved himself in the toughest league in the world week after week month after month at United.
Both are great players but Ronaldo has shown he can do it in England and in Spain and at international level.
Even now with his powers waining he would still be top scorer in the Prem
Asking what precisely?
good post my thoughts entirely but dont come on here talking sense the messi fanboys will be looking for you with their picthforks and torches
How many times has messi played against a top English side ?
Ronny proved himself in the toughest league in the world week after week month after month at United.
Both are great players but Ronaldo has shown he can do it in England and in Spain and at international level.
Even now with his powers waining he would still be top scorer in the Prem
It doesn't surprise me that people who hold this opinion also struggle to write legible English.good post my thoughts entirely but dont come on here talking sense the messi fanboys will be looking for you with their picthforks and torches
Noone scores as much as RonaldoAt this point why are we still comparing them? Messi is on another level, you will find footballers in this world currently today who score at a similar rate to Ronaldo, we have about two in the Premier league alone, you won't find anyone who playmakes like Messi while doing so.