Board vs Jose

[Massive Spanner]

Ofcourse he knows he's not going to get everyone on the list. Since Jose has been here , we've hardly chased un attainable targets like Moyes used to do. If he needs a specialist in certain position, the board got to let him have it.

Again I'll ask. if Mourinho identified a "specialist" that he needed .. like Shawcross, and the club slapped a 200m price tag on him.

Should we buy?

Obviously that's an extreme example but the same logic applies as with Perisic.

In fact I'm not even sure why people mention Perisic. Inter wouldn't sell him once their other targets became unattainable. Shit, guess that means they don't trust their manager either if they didn't get them!

 

[breakout67]

Comparing Sanchez and Mahrez to the situation at United is completely off base. Sanchez was actually going to City but Arsenal didn't get a replacement in time so they didn't sell him in the summer. We also had to make a swap deal to make it happen. It's a transfer that's very unique. Mahrez also went to City so they got what they wanted.

We tried to get Perisic on the cheap because Inter were struggling with FFP, he didn't go on the pre season because of it. Then Inter started bumping up the price once they got their FFP issues sorted and eventually wanted Martial on loan. Its reasonable to think that had we offered more money in the first place they would have accepted it as we would slightly overpaying.

 

[Noc-Z]

Jose has looked moody and jaded since he arrived here. Maybe after his stints at Real and Chelsea (second spell) he needed a substantial break from the game. He's only getting worse now. Because I want United to succeed so badly I'm hoping there's a smart reason for what he's doing, maybe trying to send a message to the board for example, but I'm far from convinced. He paints life at Manchester United as a very joyless existence. I don't know how he motivates the players.

If we are to believe certain rumours, I can empathise with the board on a few issues. For example, Willian will be 30 in August and I'm not so sure he's World class, so the prices quoted don't make a lot of sense. Sanchez and Matic are almost 30, so you have to question what is his plan for the squad going forward (does he even have one?). He signed Bailly and Lindelof and now wants another CB. He spent good money on Pogba, but doesn't seem able to get the best out of him and Pogba doesn't seem happy under Mourinho. Maybe Pogba just isn't good enough, it's hard to say.

Hard to be optimistic, and the general vibe seems very negative from the outside.

 

[breakout67]

Jose has looked moody and jaded since he arrived here. Maybe after his stints at Real and Chelsea (second spell) he needed a substantial break from the game. He's only getting worse now. Because I want United to succeed so badly I'm hoping there's a smart reason for what he's doing, maybe trying to send a message to the board for example, but I'm far from convinced. He paints life at Manchester United as a very joyless existence. I don't know how he motivates the players.

If we are to believe certain rumours, I can empathise with the board on a few issues. For example, Willian will be 30 in August and I'm not so sure he's World class, so the prices quoted don't make a lot of sense. Sanchez and Matic are almost 30, so you have to question what is his plan for the squad going forward (does he even have one?). He signed Bailly and Lindelof and now wants another CB. He spent good money on Pogba, but doesn't seem able to get the best out of him and Pogba doesn't seem happy under Mourinho. Maybe Pogba just isn't good enough, it's hard to say.

Hard to be optimistic, and the general vibe seems very negative from the outside.

He just got Fred who is in his mid twenties and Dalot who is one of most promising fullbacks in his age bracket.

Are you expecting us to be Southampton and field a team full of prospects so we can sell them for a huge profit?

Top teams have a mix of youth and experience. Man City have experience in the key positions and supplement it with young players like Sterling and Sane. Both City and United have an average age of 27 for their squad.

 

[Noc-Z]

He just got Fred who is in his mid twenties and Dalot who is one of most promising fullbacks in his age bracket.

Are you expecting us to be Southampton and field a team full of prospects so we can sell them for a huge profit?

Top teams have a mix of youth and experience. Man City have experience in the key positions and supplement it with young players like Sterling and Sane. Both City and United have an average age of 27 for their squad.

Absolutely not, the Manchester United first team is not for developing players, that's what the Academy squads are for. Having experienced players in the squad is obviously a good thing, that's not the problem I can see. But signing players towards the end of their career for big money is not a great approach, in my opinion.

The experienced players should already be there, so they can pass on their experience and the traditions and ethics of the club. That's where the real gains are.

There is a difference between having an older Scholes, Giggs or Carrick in the squad and signing our rivals ageing players.

Simply, do you think signing Willian, who is nearly 30 and for a fee of around £70M makes a lot of sense?

And would you not prefer to sign players on an upward curve, or at their peak rather than on a downward spiral?

The experience is in the squad we have De Gea, Young, Valencia and Mata, we have Carrick coaching and these guys have Manchester United experience, which is more important.

I really don't think we have to sign Willian to add experience to the squad.

 

[Vilev]

I told this even before new contract signing, but when there were press speculation one would be signed in weeks. And repeated it after Jose's extension. Mourinho will leave this season or after. He always leaves the year after he sings new contract. Literally every time. So i am not surprised he is laying groundwork for his departure.

 

[breakout67]

Absolutely not, the Manchester United first team is not for developing players, that's what the Academy squads are for. Having experienced players in the squad is obviously a good thing, that's not the problem I can see. But signing players towards the end of their career for big money is not a great approach, in my opinion.

The experienced players should already be there, so they can pass on their experience and the traditions and ethics of the club. That's where the real gains are.

There is a difference between having an older Scholes, Giggs or Carrick in the squad and signing our rivals ageing players.

Simply, do you think signing Willian, who is nearly 30 and for a fee of around £70M makes a lot of sense?

And would you not prefer to sign players on an upward curve, or at their peak rather than on a downward spiral?

The experience is in the squad we have De Gea, Young, Valencia and Mata, we have Carrick coaching and these guys have Manchester United experience, which is more important.

I really don't think we have to sign Willian to add experience to the squad.

Firstly, Willian is not for adding experience but a good player on the RW that has been a problem area for several years. He's got 3-4 years considering his injury record is sublime. That allows time for new right wing prospects to come onto the scene, as well as a potential of Chong being a regular their in his twenties.

Secondly, Willian for £70m is paper talk nonsense at best. The same papers saying he'll go for £70m have said that Chelsea were willing to sell him for £45m to Barca once they found out about Malcom. Until someone reliable actually says whats going on, or the transfer happens I'm not going to entertain the likes of Mundo Deportivo and Daily Star.

Matt Law (who is a Chelsea mouthpiece) has said that Chelsea if they were to deal with United would want Martial in exchange. Considering Mourinho said in a press conference that Martial, Sanchez and Mata are starting against Leicester then that's pretty much not going to happen.

 

[Noc-Z]

Yes, if Willian was closer to £45m than £70m, it would be more reasonable to me. But in the context of Jose v the board I can understand why they would have reservations if that fee starts creeping up. A 25/26 year old Willian would be a different prospect. I would agree though he doesn't look the type of player (like a Rooney) to suddenly drop off.

 

[Adisa]

A lot of journalists are saying we need to sell before we buy. Don't know if it's cause of money or squad numbers.

 

[ash_86]

Again I'll ask. if Mourinho identified a "specialist" that he needed .. like Shawcross, and the club slapped a 200m price tag on him.

Should we buy?

Obviously that's an extreme example but the same logic applies as with Perisic.

In fact I'm not even sure why people mention Perisic. Inter wouldn't sell him once their other targets became unattainable. Shit, guess that means they don't trust their manager either if they didn't get them!

Why don't you quote that Jose needs Messi but board can't get him example next? He did not ask for a 200m player and we both know it. He asked for a 50-60m player and it's perfectly attainable for a club as size of us. Reg perisic, Ed tried to low ball Inter due to their ffp limits with a 35m offer. They got pissed off and jacked up the price .

 

[VanGaalyTime]

A lot of journalists are saying we need to sell before we buy. Don't know if it's cause of money or squad numbers.

Ibra, Rooney, Depay, Sneiderlin, Blind... United haven't replaced so many of the squad players sold in the last two years. We also have the lowest wage to turnover ratio in the PL, possibly in all the big Euro leagues. We simply aren't spending according to our wealth. Why do we need to balance the books? We can spend 25M a year on debt interest but not find an extra 10 for a full back? Where are our priorities as a global sport leader?

 

[Pexbo]

A lot of journalists are saying we need to sell before we buy. Don't know if it's cause of money or squad numbers.

The squad is majorly bloated.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Why don't you quote that Jose needs Messi but board can't get him example next? He did not ask for a 200m player and we both know it. He asked for a 50-60m player and it's perfectly attainable for a club as size of us. Reg perisic, Ed tried to low ball Inter due to their ffp limits with a 35m offer. They got pissed off and jacked up the price .

And the board didn't think Perisic was a £60m player and thus ended the deal. I'd say £35m was a far fairer price for him.

You can't seem to get your head around the notion that a board not signing a player doesn't mean they don't trust the manager and this is going in circles so I'm done here. Moan the feck away.

 

[Leftback99]

A lot of journalists are saying we need to sell before we buy. Don't know if it's cause of money or squad numbers.

Probably both.

I remember reading that we earnt less from the CL this season than we did from the Europa in 16/17 while Liverpool earnt around £30m more than us. This kind of thing will have an impact on our transfer budget.

Anyone thinking we can throw around £60m for any player Mourinho wants like it doesn't matter is way off the mark.

 

[mitchmouse]

I think I'm right in saying that Jose has now refused to comment on our chances of winning the title. Pretty much how I feel..

 

[cyberman]

Probably both.

I remember reading that we earnt less from the CL this season than we did from the Europa in 16/17 while Liverpool earnt around £30m more than us. This kind of thing will have an impact on our transfer budget.

Anyone thinking we can throw around £60m for any player Mourinho wants like it doesn't matter is way off the mark.

Yep, since we qualified through EL we weren't considered part of the TV pool for the top 4 in Europe.
It was all about saving the Adidas deal

 

[roseguy64]

A lot of journalists are saying we need to sell before we buy. Don't know if it's cause of money or squad numbers.

I'd say it's the squad numbers.

I don't expect us to make more than 1 or 2 signings. And that depends on how many outgoings there are. Not seeing any rumours about any of our players going other than Darmian. We currently have 29 first team players. Joel will be going on loan and so too might Tuanzebe, Fosu-Mensah and McTominay. That would cut it down to 24-25 without Darmian.

We have Pogba, Lingard, Pereira who club homegrown with Grant, Jones, Smalling, Lukaku, Shaw and Young also homegrown. We don't have to register Rashford, Tuanzebe and TFM. I think we'd have to register McTominay though.

If we have all those outgoings we'd have two places available to register players which is basically one spot as we'd register McTominay anyway as insurance. So we'd need more than just Darmian going to sign multiple players and I've seen no rumours about players other than him going. Shaw and Pereira look like they want to stay and fight for their place and it'd take a massive amount on the table for us to sell Martial or Pogba. No rumours about any of our CBs.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Did you take a poll to come to that conclusion or just make it up?

Made up from observations. How many people in here you think care about Fellaini for example? But Jose fought hard for his extension.

 

[ash_86]

And the board didn't think Perisic was a £60m player and thus ended the deal. I'd say £35m was a far fairer price for him.

You can't seem to get your head around the notion that a board not signing a player doesn't mean they don't trust the manager and this is going in circles so I'm done here. Moan the feck away.

Thats not how the market works. Whatever suits your narrative then. Bye!

 

[breakout67]

Made up from observations. How many people in here you think care about Fellaini for example? But Jose fought hard for his extension.

I doubt Mourinho fought hard for Fellaini, he just said he wants him to stay otherwise they'd have to get in another midfielder. Mourinho doesn't have that power at United. He says who he wants and who he doesn't and the club try to do what they can.

You'd also find quite a few on here that have no problem with Fellaini as a back-up player. A look at the threads on him resigning will tell you that. He's only deadwood in some people's eyes not a large majority.

 

[Cee90]

Wonder how many times the words 'narrative' and 'agenda' have been used on here this summer?

It's all people seem to keep saying.

If they don't agree with your opinion then you have an 'agenda' which suits the 'narrative'.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Wonder how many times the words 'narrative' and 'agenda' have been used on here this summer?

It's all people seem to keep saying.

If they don't agree with your opinion then you have an 'agenda' which suits the 'narrative'.

My opinion is correct and based on logic. Yours is incorrect and based on bias and emotion.

The above makes people feel their opinions have a greater weight while undermining the legitimicy of other viewpoint. And you're right. It is used a lot these days. While I acknowledge that bias does exist, the discourse goes in that direction far too often.

 

[sunama]

And the board didn't think Perisic was a £60m player and thus ended the deal. I'd say £35m was a far fairer price for him.

You can't seem to get your head around the notion that a board not signing a player doesn't mean they don't trust the manager and this is going in circles so I'm done here. Moan the feck away.

The price which Inter were looking for was £45...not £60M.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...r-united-ivan-perisic-internazionale-transfer

Instead, the board thought it better to keep the £45M. No doubt, that money went into the pockets of the Glazers, who might've bought themselves a nice property with that money.

The fans need to ask themselves what is more important to them: us buying players OR lining the pockets of the Glazers?

 

[Massive Spanner]

The price which Inter were looking for was £45...not £60M.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...r-united-ivan-perisic-internazionale-transfer

Instead, the board thought it better to keep the £45M. No doubt, that money went into the pockets of the Glazers, who might've bought themselves a nice property with that money.

The fans need to ask themselves what is more important to them: us buying players OR lining the pockets of the Glazers?

Sorry but what the feck are you talking about? In the past five years we have spent over seven hundred million pounds. We've bought fourteen players that cost over £30m, four that cost over £50m, and have broken the world record for a player. This notion that the board are hindering the club with a lack of transfers and not providing our dear Jose the funds he needs is nothing short of absolute bollocks. We are the biggest spending non oil club in that period by far.

Our problems are nothing to do with a lack of spending or a lack of players bought, our problems are because we buy badly and don't seem to have a coherent policy under any of our managers, simple as that. Jose needs to quit fecking moaning.

We have absolutely pissed money away on pure drivel and are now stuck with a bloated, over-paid, and under performing squad as a result. No wonder the fecking board are pessimistic about offering more money, assuming they are.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

I doubt Mourinho fought hard for Fellaini, he just said he wants him to stay otherwise they'd have to get in another midfielder. Mourinho doesn't have that power at United. He says who he wants and who he doesn't and the club try to do what they can.

You'd also find quite a few on here that have no problem with Fellaini as a back-up player. A look at the threads on him resigning will tell you that. He's only deadwood in some people's eyes not a large majority.

literally nothing that Jose does is wrong

 

[breakout67]

Sorry but what the feck are you talking about? In the past five years we have spent over seven hundred million pounds. We've bought fourteen players that cost over £30m, four that cost over £50m, and have broken the world record for a player. This notion that the board are hindering the club with a lack of transfers and not providing our dear Jose the funds he needs is nothing short of absolute bollocks. We are the biggest spending non oil club in that period by far.

Our problems are nothing to do with a lack of spending or a lack of players bought, our problems are because we buy badly and don't seem to have a coherent policy under any of our managers, simple as that. Jose needs to quit fecking moaning.

We have absolutely pissed money away on pure drivel and are now stuck with a bloated, over-paid, and under performing squad as a result. No wonder the fecking board are pessimistic about offering more money, assuming they are.

You might not be aware of how business works, but that is the board's responsibility. The fact that we decided to improvise running the club by hiring Moyes with no succession plan in place. The fact that we have only just gotten a structure in place to run the club independent of the manager 5 years after SAF retirement.

We have pissed away money because the board hired a clueless clown, then a manager known for long term projects that was set to retire in a few years, then a manager that views football in completely the opposite way to that manager.

I have no idea how anyone can think the board are actually competent when it comes to football. They hired Moyes because SAF recommended him, and then let him take control of the club as if he was SAF. No director of football, no revamped scouting network, just get Moyes and his lads from Everton. Throw in Giggs as a token gesture and it'll be fine.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

The price which Inter were looking for was £45...not £60M.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...r-united-ivan-perisic-internazionale-transfer

Instead, the board thought it better to keep the £45M. No doubt, that money went into the pockets of the Glazers, who might've bought themselves a nice property with that money.

The fans need to ask themselves what is more important to them: us buying players OR lining the pockets of the Glazers?

That's now how corporate finance works.

 

[Massive Spanner]

You might not be aware of how business works, but that is the board's responsibility. The fact that we decided to improvise running the club by hiring Moyes with no succession plan in place. The fact that we have only just gotten a structure in place to run the club independent of the manager 5 years after SAF retirement.

We have pissed away money because the board hired a clueless clown, then a manager known for long term projects that was set to retire in a few years, then a manager that views football in completely the opposite way to that manager.

I have no idea how anyone can think the board are actually competent when it comes to football. They hired Moyes because SAF recommended him, and then let him take control of the club as if he was SAF. No director of football, no revamped scouting network, just get Moyes and his lads from Everton. Throw in Giggs as a token gesture and it'll be fine.

I never said the board were. I was responding to a poster who has claimed that they are not providing adequate funds to our managers to get players, when quite clearly, they are, and have been since SAF retired.

The board have been a shambles too. They massively under-invested under Sir Alex which is why we had such a paper-thin squad after he left. They've hired poor managers. They've not really had any sort of coherent transfer policy. But one thing they haven't done is limit those managers, Jose included, funds and transfer wise. To suggest so in the face of such blatant financial facts is absolute nonsense.

I don't see this as Jose vs the board, although he's clearly trying to make it that way to deflect blame from himself, as is his norm. I see it as a poor investment and planning from all over, the board and the managers.

 

[breakout67]

I never said the board were. I was responding to a poster who has claimed that they are not providing adequate funds to our managers to get players, when quite clearly, they are, and have been since SAF retired.

The board have been a shambles too. They massively under-invested under Sir Alex which is why we had such a paper-thin squad after he left. They've hired poor managers. They've not really had any sort of coherent transfer policy. But one thing they haven't done is limit those managers, Jose included, funds and transfer wise. To suggest so in the face of such blatant financial facts is absolute nonsense.

Strange to say that when there was a very public chase over Perisic last season that ended in us walking away because we were trying to low ball them. What about when LVG complained about the board not getting his targets? What about when Mourinho has detailed that he has no power over transfers and simply gives a list? What about Mourinho saying that he wants two more players this season and it looks as if he will not get his targets again?

This isn't managers asking for impossible transfers (if anything Woodward actually wants to make impossible transfers happen). Mourinho has said that he gives an extensive list with multiple players for each position he wants. Yet the board consistently fail to get the players he has wanted.

I think it is quite clear that the board are perfectly happy with spending huge amounts on big name signings, but when it comes to functional players they want to low ball and haggle because it won't improve the financial profile. Basically they think like fans, splash the cash on big names and don't want to pay the asking price on 'average' players that they don't rate but the manager deems important to the system.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Strange to say that when there was a very public chase over Perisic last season that ended in us walking away because we were trying to low ball them. What about when LVG complained about the board not getting his targets? What about when Mourinho has detailed that he has no power over transfers and simply gives a list? What about Mourinho saying that he wants two more players this season and it looks as if he will not get his targets again?

This isn't managers asking for impossible transfers (if anything Woodward actually wants to make impossible transfers happen). Mourinho has said that he gives an extensive list with multiple players for each position he wants. Yet the board consistently fail to get the players he has wanted.

I think it is quite clear that the board are perfectly happy with spending huge amounts on big name signings, but when it comes to functional players they want to low ball and haggle because it won't improve the financial profile. Basically they think like fans, splash the cash on big names and don't want to pay the asking price on 'average' players that they don't rate but the manager deems important to the system.

LvG spent 150m in each of the summer's he was here, are you really going to use him as a reason? He pissed all the money he spent away on drivel.

Jose has gotten Bailly, Lindelof, Mkhi, Fred, Matic, and Dalot. Explain to me how this isn't getting the functional players he wants exactly? You think it was the board who went for Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez and not Mourinho, or something?

I love how you and others continuously bring up Perisic, as he's literally the only concrete example available of the board not buying the player the manager wanted and then claim the board "constantly fail to get the players he's wanted", despite there being countless examples of getting the players he did want, but carry on, keep defending Mourinho and blaming everyone else. Goodness knows it means you're on the same wavelength as him at least.

 

[Apokalips]

LvG spent 150m in each of the summer's he was here, are you really going to use him as a reason? He pissed all the money he spent away on drivel.

Jose has gotten Bailly, Lindelof, Mkhi, Fred, Matic, and Dalot. Explain to me how this isn't getting the functional players he wants exactly? You think it was the board who went for Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez and not Mourinho, or something?

I love how you and others continuously bring up Perisic, as he's literally the only concrete example available of the board not buying the player the manager wanted and then claim the board "constantly fail to get the players he's wanted", despite there being countless examples of getting the players he did want, but carry on, keep defending Mourinho and blaming everyone else. Goodness knows it means you're on the same wavelength as him at least.

100% agree with this post. Literally one concrete target that the board didn't sign yet I keep seeing Woodward blamed for things.

Jose's negativity seems to be affecting a lot of fans here, I feel like we have this dark cloud over the club and every single thing is doom and gloom. Jose is not inspiring the fans and that's huge IMO. Jose is being backed by the board much more than he's used to yet still moans.

I was excited to see what he'd bring but I just feel like he's sapped a lot of my optimism and joy with boring football, excuses and a lot of snippy comments about his own players/board. He needs to earn his pay packet and get more from his current players and if/when new signings come in he needs to get everything out of them too.

 

[RedStarUnited]

I do wonder though, if the board dont want to spend on money on players like Wilian/Perisic because of their age and Jose keeps insisting on them. Why not just sack Jose end of last season and bring a new manager in and let him know from the get go what the clubs transfer policy (if its exists) is?

 

[Jazz]

I do wonder though, if the board dont want to spend on money on players like Wilian/Perisic because of their age and Jose keeps insisting on them. Why not just sack Jose end of last season and bring a new manager in and let him know from the get go what the clubs transfer policy (if its exists) is?

This exactly. If you're at odds with the manager on something like this, then surely you should have parted ways? There were managers available but the board sat on their arses. I don't why they thought Jose was going to start seeing things their way. They're too passive.

 

[Adisa]

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[Minimalist]

In all seriousness, did Fergie ever moan about the board not getting the players he wanted? Like did he ever publicly state anything like Mourinho (and other managers) does?

I honestly can't remember him doing so. It seems like such a blatant attempt to pass the buck.

 

[simonhch]

This is a big shock. I’ve never heard Jose complain before.

 

[AndyJ1985]

In all seriousness, did Fergie ever moan about the board not getting the players he wanted? Like did he ever publicly state anything like Mourinho (and other managers) does?

I honestly can't remember him doing so.

No. Ferguson just got on with it and kept winning. Even when he had an injury crisis he'd move a CB in to midfield or a CM in to defence, and we'd batter the poor feckers we faced. But hey that was Fergie, the genius that he was

 

[SammyUnited_83]

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A month ago?!

Ffs. Great planning. What is this football manager.

 

[Skills]

In all seriousness, did Fergie ever moan about the board not getting the players he wanted? Like did he ever publicly state anything like Mourinho (and other managers) does?

I honestly can't remember him doing so. It seems like such a blatant attempt to pass the buck.

Fergie was the club. Mourinho's the very definition of a mercenary.

 

[Minimalist]

No. Ferguson just got on with it and kept winning. Even when he had an injury crisis he'd move a CB in to midfield or a CM in to defence, and we'd batter the poor feckers we faced. But hey that was Fergie, the genius that he was

He's not the only manager who does it but to me it really suggests a cold relationship with the higher-ups. You'd think a manager would keep his gob shut on that front (and work on it behind the scenes). It's like he's trying to create a problem with his own people.