As a Business, top 2-3.
As a team, top 10-15.
As a team, top 10-15.
Historically speaking, Milan is a much more successful club than United, while Liverpool is slightly more successful.Liverpool?
Milan?
What the actual feck?
Agree we are incredibly fortunate, still no idea how we got through against Barca with 10 men. Would have put 10K on us going out and felt very comfortable. We were due, after going out unfortunately multiple times and Terry in Moscow..Questioning how a team won a trophy is very dangerous ground to go down, weren't Chelsea for example comfortably out played by both Barcelona and then in the final by Bayern Munich when they won the UCL? Every trophy whether it be a cup run or a league have moments of good fortune
Oh and we absolutely battered Vigo in the first leg away from home just FYI
United a nothing team in the 80's?Big team in the 60's, nothing team in the 70's and 80's, big team in 90's and 00's. Currently not sure what to rate them as.
Care to explain how it's not true?Are you an opposition fan? That's simply just not true is it.
Didn't we just eclipse Liverpool's trophy record? 41 to 40 or something.Historically speaking, Milan is a much more successful club than United, while Liverpool is slightly more successful.
You were nothing in the 70/80 sUnited a nothing team in the 80's?
Here's how United finished in the League in 80's:
2, 8, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 11, 2, 11. Throw in a couple of FA-Cups as well.
I'm curious to hear what you think about Spurs.
Spurs since 2008:
11, 8, 4, 5, 4, 5, 6, 5, 3, 2, 3. League Cup in 2008.
Looks like a whole lot of nothing as well, using your yardstick
No it's not but people with batshit crazy views need to be brought up on itLots of oppo fan opinions to disagree with on this page but that's not the point of the thread.
Look at the thread title please - I am aware Spurs have been a nothing team since the 1960's but thanks anyway. Do you want to hear opp fans views or not?United a nothing team in the 80's?
Here's how United finished in the League in 80's:
2, 8, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 11, 2, 11. Throw in a couple of FA-Cups as well.
I'm curious to hear what you think about Spurs.
Spurs since 2008:
11, 8, 4, 5, 4, 5, 6, 5, 3, 2, 3. League Cup in 2008.
Looks like a whole lot of nothing as well, using your yardstick
Are you an opp fan? If not then why are you responding in this thread?Care to explain how it's not true?
Huge club obviously, but I do worry where your next PL/CL title is coming from which is what keeps you current. How long without winning your own league can you really be considered one of the biggest clubs in the world on any given day, in every discussion?
We are already looking at 12/13 since your last title, so 5 seasons have since passed by and you can already see it’s going to be 6 seasons. If the club don’t get it right quickly inside then 6 quickly becomes 10 and how can you be one of the very biggest clubs in the world if you haven’t won your own league in a decade? Certainly not in the bracket you’ve just mentioned.
Forever a big club, but slipping from that very top bracket of the 3 clubs you’ve just mentioned as each year passes by without the PL/CL, is my view.
I'd agree with both of these as well however it does raise another question who are the top 3 club sides in Europe? Real obviously, Barca probably, after them I have no idea though as I feel at the moment you have a bracket beneath them with Juve, Bayern, City, possibly Liverpool now and we're probably that bracket below them in that 3rd tierEvery time a thread like this pops up, I’d rank you little lower.
I assume you only read the title of the threadAre you an opp fan? If not then why are you responding in this thread?
It’s a difficult question and depends on your perspective. What makes the club big? If it’s fans worldwide, United are up there. If it’s members, they are nowhere near the top. If it’s past success, they are up there, but not at the very top. If it’s current success, nowhere near the top. If it’s financial success, no one except for Real comes even close.I'd agree with both of these as well however it does raise another question who are the top 3 club sides in Europe? Real obviously, Barca probably, after them I have no idea though as I feel at the moment you have a bracket beneath them with Juve, Bayern, City, possibly Liverpool now and we're probably that bracket below them in that 3rd tier
PSG are just a team full of Hollywood players. Individuals who like to showboat and with no balance to their side. They will never win the Champions League without a balanced side.It’s a difficult question and depends on your perspective. What makes the club big? If it’s fans worldwide, United are up there. If it’s members, they are nowhere near the top. If it’s past success, they are up there, but not at the very top. If it’s current success, nowhere near the top. If it’s financial success, no one except for Real comes even close.
I usually value the potential appeal to top players very highly. If the next Neymar bursted onto the scene today, who’d be able to get him? Which clubs would that guy likely consider?
If that’s how it’s determined, I’d put Real, Barca, PSG, potentially City, Juve and Bayern above United. But that’s obviously just one of many aspects, just the one I usually put most emphasis on.
What I find interesting is where PSG would rank for most people. They are a relatively new club and don’t have much history to show for, but as of right now, they are huge. Especially amongst kids. I see so many kids with PSG jerseys, it’s incredible. Almost as many as Real and Barca have. They seem to be the ultimate instagram club there is.
So to give my completely subjective ranking, I’d do it like that:
Real
Barca
PSG
Juve
City
Bayern
United
Liverpool
Chelsea
Atletico
If you guys continue like this and Klopp starts to win titles, they’ll pass you, too.
Many of you will obviously disagree and I actually get why. It’s just that I put a lot of emphasis on the present and not so much on the past.
I would guess that European Cup might be a bit more important than Carling Cup, to be fair.Didn't we just eclipse Liverpool's trophy record? 41 to 40 or something.
Hmm...I would guess that European Cup might be a bit more important than Carling Cup, to be fair.
De Gea would not start over Neuer and Pogba would not start over Modric. There, I found at least one team.There's not a team on this planet where Pogba and De Gea wouldn't play week in week out
Would undoubtedly take Liverpool's record over ours. 18-5 is much better than 20-3. We have 5 extra FA cups while they have 2 UEFA cups more and 3 league cups which kind of make even the secondary trophies.Hmm...
20 league titles to 18
12 FA Cups to 7
3 European Cups to 5
5 League Cups to 8
1 Uefa Cups to 3
1 CWC to 0
2 more league titles, 5 more FA Cups compared to 2 more European Cups and 3 more league cups. Uniteds is slightly better, and both are mighty impressive.
You're better than Chelsea? LolLet's see the top teams in each league.
Serie A (2); Juventus, Napoli
La Liga (3); Barcelona, Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Valencia
Premier League (6); Chelsea, City, Liverpool, United, Tottenham, Arsenal
Bundesliga (2); Bayern, Dortmund
Ligue-1 (1); PSG
And now, let's imagine that we had a league with these 15 teams. United would possibly win Tottenham, Arsenal, Dortmund, Valencia, Chelsea and Napoli. So, in terms of football, we could be in the top-9 of this supposed league or the last in the table. And that's where we placed last year, CHL top-16. No more than that, till we prove we are better.
We are no better than Juventus, Real, Atletico, Barcelona, Bayern, City, Liverpool, PSG. We maybe are better than Tottenham, Chelsea, Napoli and Dortmund. We most possibly area better than Arsenal, Valencia.
In terms of market value, we are always top-3.
No you haven't what you've done in Pogba's case is said he wouldn't replace one player, that's like saying Ronaldo wouldn't start over Messi at Barca - both would play obviouslyDe Gea would not start over Neuer and Pogba would not start over Modric. There, I found at least one team.
I've got no idea tbh, they dominate a 1 team league and are always found left wanting in the UCLWhy do people include Bayern in that three? Barcelona and Madrid are in their own league.
Yet they have 5 European Cups. Germany is probably the second best nation at football after Brazil and a lot of those players play for Bayern. So the reason they’re in the bracket because of the monopoly that they have in the first place. A bit like us in the 90’s and early 00’s.I've got no idea tbh, they dominate a 1 team league and are always found left wanting in the UCL
The 18-5 is an odd stat since 4 of the 5 wins in the European Cup/CL were in a totally different era where the competition was treated in a much different fashion. It was definitely harder to get into since you either had to be Champions of your country or the previous years' winner but once you were in it was far, far easier to win. Just to give some perspective, the first 5 times United were in the competition they reached at least the semi finals. As a British team once in you were virtually guaranteed a long run. It's interesting to consider but from a footballing POV Liverpool were good at just the right time (70s and 80s) and their history reflects this with 4 European Cups in 7 years and 11 League Championships between 1973 and 1990. United on the other hand started on their run just as the Premiership was taking off and the money was starting to roll in. United not only became a footballing behemoth but a financial juggernaut as well. Liverpool have spent the last 30 years trying to catch up. They probably never will.Would undoubtedly take Liverpool's record over ours. 18-5 is much better than 20-3. We have 5 extra FA cups while they have 2 UEFA cups more and 3 league cups which kind of make even the secondary trophies.
Here we go. The old argument. 5 counts as 5The 18-5 is an odd stat since 4 of the 5 wins in the European Cup/CL were in a totally different era where the competition was treated in a much different fashion. It was definitely harder to get into since you either had to be Champions of your country or the previous years' winner but once you were in it was far, far easier to win.
But that's the point - does it really? When Liverpool won the competition back in the 70s and 80s it had different criteria and different rules. It isn't the same competition any more. Liverpool have won 4 European Cups and 1 CL. United have 1 European Cup and 2 CLs. Both competitions have their merits in terms of prestige, difficulty to win etc... but nobody can really argue that they are actually the same competition.Here we go. The old argument. 5 counts as 5
Would you rather 18-4-1. 20-1-2
Whats the difference. Liverpool were regarded as the best team in Europe over a seven year period. A feat united can never match. United have done slightly better at home.
Records about the same except we are Englands kings of Europe.
Get a new mgr
The numbers count the same as far as stats go. Lets just say 18-5. 20-3But that's the point - does it really? When Liverpool won the competition back in the 70s and 80s it had different criteria and different rules. It isn't the same competition any more. Liverpool have won 4 European Cups and 1 CL. United have 1 European Cup and 2 CLs. Both competitions have their merits in terms of prestige, difficulty to win etc... but nobody can really argue that they are actually the same competition.
Yeah, because the most profitable and valuable football club in the world will be banned by UEFA for failing FFP because they can't break evenJust take a long hard look at AC Milan and you get a glimpse of where United are heading if they don't get their acts together asap.