Former POTUS George H W Bush Dies aged 94

berbatrick

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2cents said:
I was just playing a bit of "gotcha" with @Silva, I'm really not bothered what anyone says about Bush. I would say the comment is shocking, but it's about what we'd expect.
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The worst thing about the statement is that he was shocked it drew cheers, and so he then used it repeatedly throughout his successful election campaign. It was a winning statement alongside an ad about a black man who committed a crime while on parole.

Anyway, i think the death civilty debate is tedious* and *obnoxious centrist voice* I like eboue's response only after I see something like the nyt screenshot I posted earlier.


*Exception for Bush Jr., Kissinger, and a few Indian politicians who need to be
 

Charlie Foley

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SirAF said:
I agree, but debating sensibly doesn’t involve celebrating that a person that you disagree with has died. I don’t REALLY mind Eboue arguing that he wants a cap to abolish all the billionaires of the world, but to celebrate them dying etc is, to keep it civil, childish.
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What children are you hanging around?


"Want to plays hide and go seek?"


"Nah feck that let's cheer some presidential deaths."
 

Halftrack

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I have no strong opinions on Bush Sr. But I know he threw up on the Japanese PM that one time, which was kind of funny.

Another thing I'm finding funny is that posters you'd normally find banging on about PC gone mad and SJWs are in here complaining about others not being respectful enough. That's proper irony. Or is it hipocrisy? Idk, but what I do know is that when some guy who said he'd punch a woman he'd slept with if he found out she was trans is criticising your behavior, your behavior is probably cool and good and you should continue with it.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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berbatrick said:
No, I don't think he is.
But that is your attitude, right? That it would be wrong to celebrate any death - HW, Osama,...
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I never said that.

All I said was that I find the repetitive comments from the same people celebrating his death boring and childish. You can celebrate whatever you want, just don't ram it repeatedly down everybody else's throat.

There's a difference between one throwaway comment saying 'good, he was a shitty guy' and making multiple digs and comments about how you hope he's being tortured.

That said, I do think there's a significant difference between publically celebrating the death of someone considered wholly evil by civilised society (Bin Laden, Hitler) and a more controversial figure like Bush. People are perfectly entitled to put their view across, but personally I find the glee with which it's done distasteful.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Silva said:
He certainly is to the people who were caught up in the AIDS epidemic. And the people who died as a result of his drug war. Or who suffered as a result of the Iran-Contra deal. And the people who continue to suffer as a result of the coups he provided support for in South and Central America.
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He was a product of his time, and inevitably as president of the United States he was going to have made decisions which negatively impacted certain groups. It's basically unavoidable when you're in that role.

I don't think there's any valid comparison between him and an insidious evil like Hitler, who stood out in his own time and directly caused the genocide of millions.

That's not to say he was a good man, or that people cant criticise him just because he's dead .. but like I said in my previous post, there is a point where I find the revelling in it distasteful and unnecessary.
 

Silva

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SquishyMcSquish said:
He was a product of his time, and inevitably as president of the United States he was going to have made decisions which negatively impacted certain groups. It's basically unavoidable when you're in that role.

I don't think there's any valid comparison between him and an insidious evil like Hitler, who stood out in his own time and directly caused the genocide of millions.

That's not to say he was a good man, or that people cant criticise him just because he's dead .. but like I said in my previous post, there is a point where I find the revelling in it distasteful and unnecessary.
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People knew that coups, exacerbating deadly illnesses and racism were bad in his lifetime. He wasn't born in the bronze age. People knew that shooting passenger planes was bad, and when his military downed one he stood up and basically told the world to get fecked. A product of his time is a cop out of epic proportions, this motherfecker took the nazi gold his pa gave him and used it to suppress contemporaries who wanted democracy in their nations. He used it suppress ethnic minorities. He used it to suppress sexual health education and safe practices leading to needless deaths from AIDS. He wasn't the natural product of his time, he come from a virulent family that has caused nothing but death and destruction for personal gain. His memory and legacy deserve nothing but contempt.
 

Cheesy

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SquishyMcSquish said:
He was a product of his time, and inevitably as president of the United States he was going to have made decisions which negatively impacted certain groups. It's basically unavoidable when you're in that role.

I don't think there's any valid comparison between him and an insidious evil like Hitler, who stood out in his own time and directly caused the genocide of millions.

That's not to say he was a good man, or that people cant criticise him just because he's dead .. but like I said in my previous post, there is a point where I find the revelling in it distasteful and unnecessary.
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That's true but with Bush there's plenty of evidence to suggest he made certain bad decisions he didn't need to make while fully knowing the consequences of them either because he didn't care or because it personally benefited them.

Obviously Bush isn't as bad as Hitler, objectively speaking (in fact he probably ranks below most post-war Republican Presidents in the 'being a cnut' stakes) but there's still a point to be made that those acting with a certain reverence toward him are doing so because they had the good fortune not to be negatively affected by some of his more malicious and malignant policies. And it's also probably fair to say that when judging Bush those defending him, or who are particularly horrified at the comments being directed against him, are doing so through a fairly Western-centric view wherein we have the luxury of viewing politicians from an objective standpoint wherein their bad points are reduced to arbitrary mistakes, unfortunate character defects, or things that all politicians do, instead of being genuinely bad things that ended up destroying the lives of many.

Which isn't to say that I'm necessarily supportive of some of the crass comments, or that I don't find them a bit inane and unnecessary, but I've not got a particularly big problem in the grand scheme of things considering how the same figures tend to be eulogised by the media to a significant extent once they die.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Cheesy said:
That's true but with Bush there's plenty of evidence to suggest he made certain bad decisions he didn't need to make while fully knowing the consequences of them either because he didn't care or because it personally benefited them.

Obviously Bush isn't as bad as Hitler, objectively speaking (in fact he probably ranks below most post-war Republican Presidents in the 'being a cnut' stakes) but there's still a point to be made that those acting with a certain reverence toward him are doing so because they had the good fortune not to be negatively affected by some of his more malicious and malignant policies. And it's also probably fair to say that when judging Bush those defending him, or who are particularly horrified at the comments being directed against him, are doing so through a fairly Western-centric view wherein we have the luxury of viewing politicians from an objective standpoint wherein their bad points are reduced to arbitrary mistakes, unfortunate character defects, or things that all politicians do, instead of being genuinely bad things that ended up destroying the lives of many.

Which isn't to say that I'm necessarily supportive of some of the crass comments, or that I don't find them a bit inane and unnecessary, but I've not got a particularly big problem in the grand scheme of things considering how the same figures tend to be eulogised by the media to a significant extent once they die.
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You and @Silva make some good points. I'm about to get on a plane so can't really respond in full regarding Bush and his time as president, but will do so later when I've got a bit more time.

My main issue is just the level of vitriol in some of the comments. I understand where some of the emotion comes from but equally don't feel it serves any purpose to just come in and make little digs. Far better are the posts where a genuine criticism of his life/actions and why people feel a certain way, rather than 'feck yeah glad he's dead burn in hell'.

That said, you're absolutely right that the glorification on the other side of the spectrum is also nauseating.
 

Cheesy

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SquishyMcSquish said:
You and @Silva make some good points. I'm about to get on a plane so can't really respond in full regarding Bush and his time as president, but will do so later when I've got a bit more time.

My main issue is just the level of vitriol in some of the comments. I understand where some of the emotion comes from but equally don't feel it serves any purpose to just come in and make little digs. Far better are the posts where a genuine criticism of his life/actions and why people feel a certain way, rather than 'feck yeah glad he's dead burn in hell'.

That said, you're absolutely right that the glorification on the other side of the spectrum is also nauseating.
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Yeah I'd actually say that's fair to be honest. Much as I don't have too much of a problem with some of the more mocking comments it can get a bit tiresome and trollish after a while.
 

R.N7

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I'd like to hear some genuine praise of his life/actions and why people feel a certain way, rather than 'RIP he lived a long distinguished life, now reunited with Barbara in heaven xx'
 

Adisa

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I feel for the poor dog they keep wheeling all around.
 

2cents

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R.N7 said:
I'd like to hear some genuine praise of his life/actions and why people feel a certain way, rather than 'RIP he lived a long distinguished life, now reunited with Barbara in heaven xx'
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This might be what you're looking for:

George H.W. Bush, R.I.P.
 

SteveJ

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Dwazza said:
I couldn't understand why Donny-boy looked so angry.
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There's a saying about narcissists: they want to be the bride at every wedding, the corpse at every funeral etc.
 

Fergies Gum

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Pathetic behavior from Trump. He doesn't even bother greeting the Clintons and Carters.
 

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In The Netherlands we're all about concessions. So in that light can we just all agree and say:

Rest in piece, cnut.
 

Silva

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The crowd gets whiter and whiter the further back you look, it's like someone was building a video game crowd and copy and pasted the same person over and over after the second row
 
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