Honest John
Full Member
He doesn't need to hear it. His mind is made up.Boris absent from debates as usual. What a coward of a man.
He doesn't need to hear it. His mind is made up.Boris absent from debates as usual. What a coward of a man.
I see that line being used by some remainers since 2016 arguing hey it never said what type of deal and suggesting a Norway deal for example or soft brexit. I doubt it.The 2016 referendum just asked if the UK should stay in or leave the EU but it didn't say whether there was any type of deal. Many people had many different opinions of what leaving the EU meant. Even now, two and a half years later, you can see that people still think it means many different things.
But no matter what any of us think there is a large enough proportion of Brexit voters who want no deal because they've been told that leaving with just WTO is nothing to be frightened of. Don't see how a government / parliament can deny that to the voters.
I’d vote against it in the hope that, if we are still on the cliff edge in late March, there would be enough responsible MPs to avert disaster by voting to postpone Art 50. You can’t in good conscience reverse 45 years of integration, with the resulting enormous disruption, and make the UK poorer and less influential on the basis of a wafer thin referendum result influenced by outright lies and foreign powers.Out of curiosity how would cafites vote if they were MPs?
Consider you have this WA in front of you and if it gets voted down, we could be getting no-deal Brexit, or a referendum (with unknown options), or a GE . Would you vote for it or against it?
EDIT: For the record, I would probably vote for it.
Like it was made up before the referendum you mean, when he wrote two articles, one for and one against, until he decided which way to jump at the very last minute. He is supposed to be a prospective leader and should be trying to influence opinion, but whenever anything happens he becomes paralysed with indecision and disappears for days on end.He doesn't need to hear it. His mind is made up.
Looking at the beeb feed I think he's there with his brother now.Like it was made up before the referendum you mean, when he wrote two articles, one for and one against, until he decided which way to jump at the very last minute. He is supposed to be a prospective leader and should be trying to influence opinion, but whenever anything happens he becomes paralysed with indecision and disappears for days on end.
I would say he has probably drafted two responses and both are polar opposites. He will release whichever will lead to his chances of furthering his quest for power.He doesn't need to hear it. His mind is made up.
Agreed.I see that line being used by some remainers since 2016 arguing hey it never said what type of deal and suggesting a Norway deal for example or soft brexit. I doubt it.
Brexit is about leaving or remaining. People voting leave would expect to end FoM, stop being a net contributor to the EU whether it's £200-240m a month or £350m, an ability to do trade deals and not be under EU laws and jurisdiction and get back UK fishing waters.
I don't believe people voting leave were thinking of a Norway deal of some other soft brexit deal where we stay in this sacrifice that. Norway have FoM and pay 95% of the fee to the EU for example.
You said it much more eloquently than I did!Like it was made up before the referendum you mean, when he wrote two articles, one for and one against, until he decided which way to jump at the very last minute. He is supposed to be a prospective leader and should be trying to influence opinion, but whenever anything happens he becomes paralysed with indecision and disappears for days on end.
If May wins and does so comfortably then her chances of getting her deal through increase. Boris will then need to swing in behind her if he wants to capitalise on the fact that she is probably be giving undertakings, right now, that she won't contest the next election as leader.I would say he has probably drafted two responses and both are polar opposites. He will release whichever will lead to his chances of furthering his quest for power.
Are they fighting?Looking at the beeb feed I think he's there with his brother now.
a true patriot!Oh god, I guess if that's what it takes...
Is it conceivable that we eventually get a Johnson v Johnson leadership contest with Jo winning? ALA the Millibands. Now wouldn't that be aAre they fighting?
I agree no one voted for Norway (and why would you - it would be ridiculous for a country as big as the UK to be in that rule taker situation), but Leavers were constantly told that we could leave in the way you describe while having similar access to European markets as we enjoy today. No doubt a sizeable percentage of voters - some hardcore, ideological Brexiteers, as well as others who are unable to grasp, or too old, too alienated and/or too xenophobic to care, what a hard Brexit really entails - would still vote Leave if there was a second referendum tomorrow. But it’s disingenuous to assume that there is still 51.9% so exercised by sovereignty or fishing (0.2% of GDP!) that they are willing to plunge the country into chaos.I see that line being used by some remainers since 2016 arguing hey it never said what type of deal and suggesting a Norway deal for example or soft brexit. I doubt it.
Brexit is about leaving or remaining. People voting leave would expect to end FoM, stop being a net contributor to the EU whether it's £200-240m a month or £350m, an ability to do trade deals and not be under EU laws and jurisdiction and get back UK fishing waters.
I don't believe people voting leave were thinking of a Norway deal or some other soft brexit deal where we stay in this sacrifice that. Norway have FoM and pay 95% of the fee to the EU for example.
Yeah I call bollocks to that.I see that line being used by some remainers since 2016 arguing hey it never said what type of deal and suggesting a Norway deal for example or soft brexit. I doubt it.
Brexit is about leaving or remaining. People voting leave would expect to end FoM, stop being a net contributor to the EU whether it's £200-240m a month or £350m, an ability to do trade deals and not be under EU laws and jurisdiction and get back UK fishing waters.
I don't believe people voting leave were thinking of a Norway deal or some other soft brexit deal where we stay in this sacrifice that. Norway have FoM and pay 95% of the fee to the EU for example.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/b...N7_-aD_M78DyeBNNkxvj0KeaA9UykhFPj_gJhV9ktyYg4Tory Brexiteers have launched a pamphlet setting out proposals for an alternative EU Withdrawal Agreement.
The paper, entitled A Better Deal, retains many elements of Mrs May's package but removes what they referred to as "poison pills" which prevented her securing cross-party support.
Backers of the new approach - including former Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab - said that the British Parliament had effectively rejected the PM's deal by making it impossible for her to get it through the Commons.
The document, drawn up by a former adviser to Liam Fox, Shanker Singham, customs expert Hans Maessen and lawyer Robert MacLean, proposed:
- No single customs territory between the UK and the EU, allowing Britain to regain control over tariffs and regulations and negotiate trade agreements with other countries;
- A 10-year, extendable backstop featuring advanced customs facilitation measures to keep the Irish border open, a zero-tariff free trade agreement in goods and a commitment by all parties not to place infrastructure on the border;
- Mutual recognition of regulations, with measures to ensure that the animal health and disease control zone on the island of Ireland can be maintained;
- Level playing field provisions on labour, the environment, competition and state aid;.
- The removal of geographic indications provisions from the Withdrawal Agreement, to be considered as part of a later free trade deal;
- The removal of language on World Trade Organisation collaboration, ensuring that the UK can operate independently in the WTO.
Launching the paper, former Brexit secretary Dominic Raab said: "There are modest and reasonable changes that could help salvage the proposed deal with the EU.
"The UK needs a unilateral exit mechanism from the backstop, but we can give the Irish Government assurances that we would put in place specific measures to guarantee no return to a hard border."
"This proposal can help deliver this and allay fears that the UK would be stuck indefinitely in an undemocratic regime of laws we have no control over and can't exit."
Also backing the paper was Mr Raab's predecessor as Brexit secretary David Davis.
Labour MP David Lammy, a supporter of the Best for Britain campaign for a second referendum, said: "The alternative plan of two failed Brexit secretaries is not a solution but a recipe for disaster.
"Not only would it create a hard border in Ireland, it would cut the UK off from our closest partners and make the whole country poorer, disproportionately hurting the worst off.
"As we stand, there is no clear majority in this House for any specific Brexit plan. The way to unblock our politics and get a mandate for a tangible plan to move forward is through a people's vote, which gives the option to remain in the EU."
The problem with that is that the morons like Farage and the others didn't realise that staying in the single market meant keeping the 4 freedoms including freedom of movement and if they didn't, do you think the electorate did?Yeah I call bollocks to that.
I honestly don't think the electorate knew what they were voting for. So to say they did is a bit foolhardy.The problem with that is that the morons like Farage and the others didn't realise that staying in the single market meant keeping the 4 freedoms including freedom of movement and if they didn't do you think the electorate did?
So long as the wrong Johnson doesn’t win, like what happened with the Milibands.Is it conceivable that we eventually get a Johnson v Johnson leadership contest with Jo winning? ALA the Millibands. Now wouldn't that be a
I agree that they had no idea what they voted for and still don't. I personally love the "No-one voted to be poorer" - unfortunately that's exactly what they voted for.I honestly don't think the electorate knew what they were voting for. So to say they did is a bit foolhardy.
That I would like to see with them as PM, would be hilarious.If only Dominic Raab and David Davis had taken a shot at the negotiations everything would be so much better!
True enough.The problem with that is that the morons like Farage and the others didn't realise that staying in the single market meant keeping the 4 freedoms including freedom of movement and if they didn't, do you think the electorate did?
Looks like they had another long lunch in the pub today. How are points 1 and 2 compatible in practice unless this magic technology appears? How are equivalent regulations and the level playing field monitored and enforced after day 1?
The WrongJohnsons is a good folk band name.So long as the wrong Johnson doesn’t win, like what happened with the Milibands.
I wouldn't tangle with 'em.The WrongJohnsons is a good folk band name.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Even fewer. 65.We got any bets on the number of Tory votes against May? I will go for a relatively sedate 78.
Maybe ignore my last post. This would be dreadful...Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Would be a pretty bloody nose for her.
have the votes of the secret ballot already been counted?Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Then again...
British politics - NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING WE'RE ON FIRE HELP
They’re announcing the result at 9 apparently.have the votes of the secret ballot already been counted?