The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[Foxbatt]

Almost exactly what I suggested back in November, but with Pereira in that so called defensive midfield position. The way I see it the midfield is much more mobile, and can pretty much work as a unit, with Pereira as the creative one, and Fred and Herrera the workhorses, Pogba would then be free of any defensive duties, and would be the launchpad for a counter attack, using Rashford and Martials pace to get the opposition's defence on the turn. All three midfield players are reasonably quick, and all can tackle and harass the opposition, which should give the defence time to organise themselves.

The reason I suggested Lindelof was that he has played in central defence. He is a ball playing defender and can tackle and head and also importantly pass the ball reasonably well. He is much quicker than Matic too. When the defence is under pressure he can easily drop in to cover the areas than needed to be covered. Periera I have not seen enough to think he can do that job right now.
Yes you are right in that our attackers are quick enough to harass and start pressing high up and reduce the space in midfield. Pogba is a player who can shoot from distance and anywhere outside the box he is a big threat so he needs to be further forward.
But Jose is not going to change his thinking, He always says the team with the ball makes the most mistakes and he is happily going to concede possession to the opposition be it Man City or Fulham.

 

[Sassy Colin]

These kind of arguments melt my melon man. We shouldn’t have gone to war with Iraq either. That we did, isn’t an excuse for sticking out the endless clusterfeck that followed!... That’s how Naz...erm, Trump’s America started!... (probably.)

Some of the innumerable problems with that are... for example...

a) He’s been here for 3 years now and can field virtually an entire XI of his own players... augmented by his obvious favourites like Fellaini & Young (whom he could replace, but consistently resists doing) What part of that is unfinished? And if it isn’t, whose fault is it?

b) If the likes of Pep, Klopp, Emery, Sarri (and every other 2nd Chelsea manager since 2010, for that matter) can noticeably improve the fortunes, confidence and playing style of a struggling top tier side with a mish mash of good but underperforming players, within half a season or so... which half of the 5 half seasons Jose has spent here, has you convinced he can improve further on the consistently awful, anti-style non-football we’ve seen so far?

c) If our squad is as shit and mid-table as he says, and reaching 2nd was the unfathomably monumental managerial achievement he claims... how exactly does that disprove the idea that a squad is only as good as it’s manager? Or that a new, more motivated manager - who doesn’t throw his entire team under the bus and call them shit at every turn - couldn’t perceivably change our fortunes for the better, by, I dunno, maybe not doing those things? If it was the genius of our manager that got this apparently horrendous £400m squad to drastically overachieve, why isn’t it the same manager’s fault that the same squad is now drastically underachieving? And if it isn’t, why do we even need a manager at all? Let alone such an expensive, elite, personality-cultivating one? What is it we're paying for, or being slavishly loyal to, exactly?

b - ii) And if it was only Fergie’s genius that allowed us to continue being successful and competitive under the Glazers, and miraculously won us the League with the exact same squad that Moyes took to 6th.... how (again!) does that work in favour of the notion that any manager is automatically doomed to fail in our set up? Isn’t the entire reason we hired Jose because he was in the same Fergie-bracket of uniquely brilliant formative bosses? That could get us back into the big time through his own managerial brilliance, without us needing to throw money at any old journeyman schmoe, like Chelsea, or City. And if that wasn't the point, then again (AGAIN!) why did we hire him!? Any manager can complain about City’s Arab state sponsored spending, but you don't hire Jose fecking Mourinho for him to complain about how it's preventing him from competing with the likes of fecking Spurs! Who didn't sign a single fecking player this summer!

c) If the fact he’s historically been a winner at other clubs, is the thing you’re clinging to as the reason he could still, maybe, turn it around here...then why doesn’t the fact that he’s self imploded at every same club in his 3rd season, and is an entirely unknown quantity at this stage in his historical tenure, not an equally importantly 'factual' touchstone?

d) Even if he could potentially salvage his time here...what costs are you willing to except? He fell out with Ronaldo at Madrid, Hazard at Chelsea, and Pogba and Martial here... the other 2 chose the players over him, and almost immediately recovered... if we do “let him finish” what do you envisage that finished product being, exactly? ‘Cos by current accounts, it’s a team of Fellainis, Lukakus and Matic’s, where Willian replaces Martial, who becomes the new Salah or De Bruyne at Juve or wherever, and the likes of Periera, Gomes and Chong become the new Pogbas, leaving for pastures new. Is that the team you want?

And more than that, the very high profile nature of our hideous, formless, undead anti-style under Jose, means even the kind of players we’d usually attract as Manchester United, are beginning to turn away because of it. I don't know whether the summer gossip about Mbappe saying he didn't want to come here under Jose is true (probably not) but if you were Mbappe, or a Dembele, or a Greizmann, would you want to play for us right now?.. I mean, if Messi decided to leave Barca tomorrow, how high on his list d’you reckon we’d be? Then think how much higher the allure of a Pep or a Klopp, is? Why would any new Ronaldo/Rooney-esque talents want to play for Jose's Manchester United? Whatever our results, isn’t that somewhat of a fecking problem!?

The double edged sword of being the so called “biggest club in the world” is that our in-house issues are huge global news. The World knows we’re a shit show. And even if by some miracle Jose gets us back to the top in the long term, what effect will that have on us as a club? Or as a (**hock, spit**) brand? If he’s allowed to sell all our flair players for a squad of Ent-like try hards, and we shithouse our way to a title.... then what? Do we become the football version of the Decepticons? Replacing our buccaneering legacy with one of forcible functionality? And what does the next manager after him do, with an empty Academy and an aging team of aggressive loyal oversized 29 year olds? What does sticking with him actually mean?

I was over the moon when we signed Mourinho, but I was wrong. So, so wrong. And I’m sorry. @Wumminator was right. He should be allowed to flagellate half the forum, in truth. And I’d take it. Gladly. Like the bad, bad boy I am...Like we all were. Forgive us. We knew not what we did.

(I may be a little drunk, fwiw)

Well said mate, I hope you had a lie down after that

 

[Fracture90]

No matter how much you dislike Jose... you can't deny he has a brilliant football mind.

For some reason he knew what he had wasn't going to challenge City for the title with those defenders.

Maybe he knew he did it with smoke and mirrors last year.

It's one thing if the defence went to shambles and then he made excuses after the fact.

He said in advance that we were undermanned and he was correct.

I agree he's being too negative and destroying morale at this point... but would Zidane be any different? The man who headbutts a player in a World Cup final?

We don't know how Zidane reacts with a team playing as poorly as this one, but my guess is that he wouldn't be much more pleasant.

We've only seen Zidane with arguably the best or second best team in the world. Can he build a tenth best team to the first?

And Zidane is my personal first choice to take over... mostly because I love him as a player... but also because Pochettino hasn't shown the ability to win much though I think he's a good manager.

Now you're resorting to fishing for confirmation with "Jose brilliant football mind" considering that was never questioned during our discussion. You're clearly deflecting from points I was making.

Why isn't he able to improve, develop and get the best out of the players he already bought? Why isn't he showing us and the board why he wanted those players and in doing so put himself in a stronger position to demand more signings?

When he was appointed and after his first transfer window I remember him actually stating how happy and thrilled he is with having such a big squad, yet now we're apparently undermanned.

That Zidane headbutt is just very petty thing to mention conceding one can make a similar case against Jose for his eye poke on Tito Vilanova, or his scuffle with Wenger, right?

I've noticed you're extremely apathetic and you've ever more pessimistic when it comes to the prospect of us hiring another manager.

 

[GM K]

You do get that lineup was set up to fail from the start? Some are really lacking in critical thinking.

Enlighten me. How was it set up to fail and why was it set up to fail?

 

[Fracture90]

Exactly. People seem to forget the Guardiola Barcelona team that had a defence consisting of Mascherano, Pique and a right back who was never at right back in Alves. Mourinho knew he didn't have a team to compete with City, in turn turned our season into a sh** show to protect himself and made us a mid-tale side to prove something to the board that if he doesn't get the signings he needs he will sabotage the Glazers champions league places.

Even in his first season, Guardiola's City was bagging goals galore and playing his style of football with the defense he had, but his positive style helped him identify the problem and work towards fixing it, whilst in our broken system, one week it's defense, other is MF, then it's attack....most recently some are even blaming DDG.

 

[Sentient Meat]

Now you're resorting to fishing for confirmation with "Jose brilliant football mind" considering that was never questioned during our discussion. You're clearly deflecting from points I was making.

Why isn't he able to improve, develop and get the best out of the players he already bought? Why isn't he showing us and the board why he wanted those players and in doing so put himself in a stronger position to demand more signings?

When he was appointed and after his first transfer window I remember him actually stating how happy and thrilled he is with having such a big squad, yet now we're apparently undermanned.

That Zidane headbutt is just very petty thing to mention conceding one can make a similar case against Jose for his eye poke on Tito Vilanova, or his scuffle with Wenger, right?

I've noticed you're extremely apathetic and you've ever more pessimistic when it comes to the prospect of us hiring another manager.

Let's say you are one of the best pit managers in the world and you come second in a race because you improvised a fan belt out of panty hose.

(Valencia and Young in this analogy)

Then the next season you ask for new parts for your engine.

Granted your management team isn't thrilled because you've already blown money on other car parts... but shouldn't they replace the parts anyway?

I have no argument with those who say we should hire a proper football director... If Mourinho bristles at having less control... then it's easy enough to fire him.

But if he's willing to work with a director... I'd let him continue for his footballing acumen.

I have no problem replacing him if the team does better. I'm just not sure it will beyond the short term bump upwards in morale.

I hope I'm wrong and you all are right.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Even in his first season, Guardiola's City was bagging goals galore and playing his style of football with the defense he had, but his positive style helped him identify the problem and work towards fixing it, whilst in our broken system, one week it's defense, other is MF, then it's attack....most recently some are even blaming DDG.

Waiting for the day when the problem is Mourinho..

 

[Fracture90]

Let's say you are one of the best pit managers in the world and you come second in a race because you improvised a fan belt out of panty hose.

(Valencia and Young in this analogy)

Then the next season you ask for new parts for your engine.

Granted your management team isn't thrilled because you've already blown money on other car parts... but shouldn't they replace the parts anyway?

I have no argument with those who say we should hire a proper football director... If Mourinho bristles at having less control... then it's easy enough to fire him.

But if he's willing to work with a director... I'd let him continue for his footballing acumen.

I have no problem replacing him if the team does better. I'm just not sure it will beyond the short term bump upwards in morale.

I hope I'm wrong and you all are right.

For all your analogies and metaphors you're still deflecting and completely ignoring every point I make. You're implying that he was forced to play defensively, but history has taught us that's his preferred style of play.

No one forced him to play Young, there was actually an instance where Shaw play playing very good and Mourinho even praised him as one of the best EPL LB's only to inexplicably drop him.

He also praised Valencia as one of the world's best RB's, so he wasn't forced to use those two, he chose to use them.

Also what's the analogy for our shameful exit to Sevilla in CL due to our cowardly tactics? People are quick to point out to us finishing 2nd in a season where we never challenged for the title yet, they're also quick to forget CL campaign.

 

[Fracture90]

Waiting for the day when the problem is Mourinho..

Bless you, it's gonna be a long, long wait by the look of it.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

It's just so sad man , he has made me lose all interest in football. United are playing Liverpool tomorrow and I am trying to find something to do rather than watch the game . I have no idea what the club are waiting for. We are 13 points off 4th with 16 games played

 

[Sentient Meat]

For all your analogies and metaphors you're still deflecting and completely ignoring every point I make. You're implying that he was forced to play defensively, but history has taught us that's his preferred style of play.

No one forced him to play Young, there was actually an instance where Shaw play playing very good and Mourinho even praised him as one of the best EPL LB's only to inexplicably drop him.

He also praised Valencia as one of the world's best RB's, so he wasn't forced to use those two, he chose to use them.

Also what's the analogy for our shameful exit to Sevilla in CL due to our cowardly tactics? People are quick to point out to us finishing 2nd in a season where we never challenged for the title yet, they're also quick to forget CL campaign.

I was unhappy with Sevilla... I was unhappy with the passive attitude at Valencia this week.

If you say you just don't like his football... I can't argue with it... nor should I.

My point is that I trust that he is trying to put us in the best position to get us a result... and trying to win us titles.

You might not like the way he's going about it... but I do believe he's trying.

I'm happy with replacing him as long as the end result is better.

 

[Fracture90]

I was unhappy with Sevilla... I was unhappy with the passive attitude at Valencia this week.

If you say you just don't like his football... I can't argue with it... nor should I.

My point is that I trust that he is trying to put us in the best position to get us a result... and trying to win us titles.

You might not like the way he's going about it... but I do believe he's trying.

I'm happy with replacing him as long as the end result is better.

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't...I suppose you could find arguments for both sides, but what's obvious - it's not working, and that alone should be a reason enough for a change.

 

[Beaucoup]

Anyone who thinks Jose Mourinho can turn this round and have us challenging again is fecking deluded and you’re damaging the club by even considering the notion that the Portuguese Pulis needs even more time and money.

If Jose was managing Liverpool or City we’d all be loving it and hoping that he would stay there as long as possible.

I remember Dalglish’s last stint at Liverpool. There was a section of their fanbase that swore blind he was still the man to turn their fortunes around and get them back to their best. Of course, any sane football fan could see that Dalglish was a washed up dinosaur living on past glories and I was absolutely gutted when they sacked him.

If you can’t see similarities between that and our very own situation then you’re a José Mourinho fanboy and fanboys aren’t healthy in football.

Or you’re still clinging onto the fact that Inter Jose will return. That Jose Mourinho doesn’t exist and he’s done at the top level.

The quicker he fecks off the better and good riddance, he won’t be missed.

Total nonsense, Mourinho’s won the Prem, Carling cup and Europa league in the last few years, hardly washed up, what’s Poch and Klop won in that time, feck all. If you think fanboys aren’t healthy, that’s fine, but self entitled fans are even worse.

 

[Z1L3]

Probably the most infuriating thing regarding those defending Mourinho is when you analyze their defense of Mourinho you come to conclusion that Mourinho needed perfect conditions for minimal results.

Once again, blatant disregard for facts. "Minimal results" just happens to be better results and more silverware than certain media darlings. Who has won more (or any) silverware in England since Mourinho took the United job? Who finished second last season, and who finished below second?

And there's the small matter of winning the Europa with half the squad injured, including the top scorer. And the fact that half of the squad is currently also injured, including the top scorer, starting left back, and starting central defender.

I get the frustration, but a lot of the posters here are just flat out moaning and ignoring the facts.

 

[Fracture90]

Once again, blatant disregard for facts. "Minimal results" just happens to be better results and more silverware than certain media darlings. Who has won more (or any) silverware in England since Mourinho took the United job? Who finished second last season, and who finished below second?

I get the frustration, but a lot of the posters here are just flat out moaning and ignoring the facts.

And you're arguing with yourself here, I wasn't making a comparison with other managers, but rather stating what was expected considering the investment made and Mourinho's reputation.

Community Shield (overblown friendly), Carabao Cup (3rd tier Cup trophy where teams mostly field their youth and fringe players) and Europa League (2nd tier European trophy) is combined with one 6th league, one 2nd place finish and FA Cup final isn't much more than a minimal success if we're being honest.

 

[Slaford RED]

No matter how much you dislike Jose... you can't deny he has a brilliant football mind.

For some reason he knew what he had wasn't going to challenge City for the title with those defenders.

Maybe he knew he did it with smoke and mirrors last year.

It's one thing if the defence went to shambles and then he made excuses after the fact.

He said in advance that we were undermanned and he was correct.

I agree he's being too negative and destroying morale at this point... but would Zidane be any different? The man who headbutts a player in a World Cup final?

We don't know how Zidane reacts with a team playing as poorly as this one, but my guess is that he wouldn't be much more pleasant.

We've only seen Zidane with arguably the best or second best team in the world. Can he build a tenth best team to the first?

And Zidane is my personal first choice to take over... mostly because I love him as a player... but also because Pochettino hasn't shown the ability to win much though I think he's a good manager.

I strongly disagree he has a brilliant football mind.

He is Tony Pulis or Sam Allardyce who has had opportunities at massive clubs.

IMO he is the luckiest manager ever.

It's not rocket science to put every man behind the ball, other than a big striker. Hoof it up to him and play on the break.
In fact I would go as far to say, that SAM ALLARDYCE is probably has a better football mind.

Big Sam has performed miracles on a budget, brought in big players who's careers were finished and brought them back from the dead.

Big Sam is also not as negative as Moanrinho, I remember when Bolton were a great fluid attacking team under Allardyce. As bid Sam said recently on talk sport radio. He had developed a reputation of negative football because he usually takes over a side, on the brink of relegation, so he has to try and keep clean sheets.
Where as Mourinho has been blessed with Galacticos through his career, after Porto and has never built a team.

I could coach Maureen's tactics, as could most of us.

 

[Shark]

I strongly disagree he has a brilliant football mind.

He is Tony Pulis or Sam Allardyce who has had opportunities at massive clubs.

IMO he is the luckiest manager ever.

It's not rocket science to put every man behind the ball, other than a big striker. Hoof it up to him and play on the break.
In fact I would go as far to say, that SAM ALLARDYCE is probably has a better football mind.

Big Sam has performed miracles on a budget, brought in big players who's careers were finished and brought them back from the dead.

Big Sam is also not as negative as Moanrinho, I remember when Bolton were a great fluid attacking team under Allardyce. As bid Sam said recently on talk sport radio. He had developed a reputation of negative football because he usually takes over a side, on the brink of relegation, so he has to try and keep clean sheets.
Where as Mourinho has been blessed with Galacticos through his career, after Porto and has never built a team.

I could coach Maureen's tactics, as could most of us.

Christ on a bike.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I strongly disagree he has a brilliant football mind.

He is Tony Pulis or Sam Allardyce who has had opportunities at massive clubs.

IMO he is the luckiest manager ever.

It's not rocket science to put every man behind the ball, other than a big striker. Hoof it up to him and play on the break.
In fact I would go as far to say, that SAM ALLARDYCE is probably has a better football mind.

Big Sam has performed miracles on a budget, brought in big players who's careers were finished and brought them back from the dead.

Big Sam is also not as negative as Moanrinho, I remember when Bolton were a great fluid attacking team under Allardyce. As bid Sam said recently on talk sport radio. He had developed a reputation of negative football because he usually takes over a side, on the brink of relegation, so he has to try and keep clean sheets.
Where as Mourinho has been blessed with Galacticos through his career, after Porto and has never built a team.

I could coach Maureen's tactics, as could most of us.

This has to be a WUM.

 

[el diablorojo]

Christ on a bike.

Now there's a great football mind but bit shakey on crosses

 

[el3mel]

I strongly disagree he has a brilliant football mind.

He is Tony Pulis or Sam Allardyce who has had opportunities at massive clubs.

IMO he is the luckiest manager ever.

It's not rocket science to put every man behind the ball, other than a big striker. Hoof it up to him and play on the break.
In fact I would go as far to say, that SAM ALLARDYCE is probably has a better football mind.

Big Sam has performed miracles on a budget, brought in big players who's careers were finished and brought them back from the dead.

Big Sam is also not as negative as Moanrinho, I remember when Bolton were a great fluid attacking team under Allardyce. As bid Sam said recently on talk sport radio. He had developed a reputation of negative football because he usually takes over a side, on the brink of relegation, so he has to try and keep clean sheets.
Where as Mourinho has been blessed with Galacticos through his career, after Porto and has never built a team.

I could coach Maureen's tactics, as could most of us.

Sam is still around. We can get him for the United job.

 

[Stactix]

Klopp & not so much Pep spent similar amounts to Mourinho, the difference most of their signings have paid off. The football is much better, they're currently setting "positive" records. Every area of the pitch both teams are better. Under Mourinho, it's just toxic, he's at odds with the players, the club, the board even the fans at times. ]

Virtually back to square one, yet according to some we should be happy with this? Same feckers would of backed Wenger to the end expecting him to pull off another 'invincibles'

 

[Vadim]

Total nonsense, Mourinho’s won the Prem, Carling cup and Europa league in the last few years, hardly washed up, what’s Poch and Klop won in that time, feck all. If you think fanboys aren’t healthy, that’s fine, but self entitled fans are even worse.

Dalglish won the Prem, Martinez won the FA Cup, Di Matteo won the Champions League - want them as Utd manager? Nah didn’t think so.

You’re running out of excuses now.

 

[Stactix]

Total nonsense, Mourinho’s won the Prem, Carling cup and Europa league in the last few years, hardly washed up, what’s Poch and Klop won in that time, feck all. If you think fanboys aren’t healthy, that’s fine, but self entitled fans are even worse.

Mourinho has never turned it around in his career, he's only lasted longer than 3 season once and he lasted one month longer ...
Took Chelsea to 16th after winning the title, they then won the title the following season.

But despite their being virtually no positives this season, just constant drama, bickering and Moyesque comments.. Utd should risk keeping him on hoping he'll do something he's never done before and for what? Shite football/ constant risk of another implosion?

 

[HisDudeness]

It's poor but under Mourinho you aren't absolutely guaranteed a win. Under Moyes Liverpool 5:1 with a 100% certainty

 

[AlwaysRed66]

Total nonsense, Mourinho’s won the Prem, Carling cup and Europa league in the last few years, hardly washed up, what’s Poch and Klop won in that time, feck all. If you think fanboys aren’t healthy, that’s fine, but self entitled fans are even worse.

Mourinho has won zero Premierships & Champions Leagues at Man Utd, which is the same as Poch & Klopp have won at their clubs. That is all Man Utd fans want to hear, not what your manager has done at previous clubs.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

It's just so sad man , he has made me lose all interest in football. United are playing Liverpool tomorrow and I am trying to find something to do rather than watch the game . I have no idea what the club are waiting for. We are 13 points off 4th with 16 games played

There is so many things wrong with this post.

1. Did you start watching United 2 years ago? The football served up under LVG especially in his final season was worse than us this season and that is saying something. Surely you must have stopped watching United play under LVG?

2. If you are a real fan of a football club then you should never stop watching unless the club is being ran by corruption and human rights issues etc.

3. Following point 2 above, no one and I mean no one is a fan of Manchester United if they would try and avoid a game vs Liverpool. This is the biggest game in England as a neutral, and an even bigger game for us fans.

4. Yes the football is very bad this season, but the club have been in much, much worse positions in the past, and stopping watching the club because they are 6th and playing badly is very entitled. How do you think fans of every other club in the country bar the top 6 feel? They have always been average clubs, for the majority of the years, yet most will still watch their club no matter what.


This kind of attitude in the post I am responding to is terrible. Loads of people on here have this attitude and it just comes across as a bit of a half arsed fan.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Mourinho has won zero Premierships & Champions Leagues at Man Utd, which is the same as Poch & Klopp have won at their clubs. That is all Man Utd fans want to hear, not what your manager has done at previous clubs.

Jose is fully capable of letting us know what he did at previous clubs without any of our fans doing it for him.

 

[Canagel]

Tomorrow will be a good indicator of the level of the two teams and how far each team has come under their managers - Klopp and Mourinho. Both have been given time and both have been given roughly the same money.

 

[BaseFishing]

In the other thread somebody who teaches Primary School kids was talking about how he only hears them excited over City, Liverpool, Chelsea, etc.

I just wanted to say this in here as well because I think it's so important and alarming. Kids catch on quick, and if we don't get our sh*t together for a longer period, say a few years, this will have very bad consequences down the road. Even in a commercial sense - it's something Woodward and the Glazers should be worried about.

AC Milan aren't getting bigger and better sponsorship deals in the last 7 years, and the next generation of Italian kids aren't buying Borini shirts. Success, in any area of life, is fleeting and should never be taken for granted. Especially in a competitive sport.

Hopefully we don't go down that route. But this very issue of United not being entertaining in their play just goes to show that, while style of play may not be the most important thing, it certainly is up there. And this is exactly why the fate of any club, the club's following, the club's finances, the club's stature, all of it... starts on the pitch.

As a club we've clearly forgotten this, but men like Fergie and Busby knew it very well. They both often talked to the players about how important it is to entertain!! the very people who made the club what it is - the working class Mancunians who would come out every weekend with their families and who wanted to see something exciting: skillful players bombing down the wings, attacking football, plenty of goals.

It's no coincidence that this very way of looking at football (the way that Fergie and Busby understood) is exactly what made United the most supported club in the world during the last few decades. No coincidence at all.

There's more successful clubs around the world. There's more successful clubs in Europe. Up until fairly recently there was even a more successful club in England. But that's not what captured the imagination of millions of kids around the world, who grew up to watch every single minute of United playing ever since the team was televised.

And yet, the club has forgotten this. We really need to wake the f*** up soon, because in a competitive sphere of life like sport and entertainment, you never ever stay still. You're either moving up, or you're moving down. We sure as s*** aren't moving up right now.

 

[Flexdegea]

In the other thread somebody who teaches Primary School kids was talking about how he only hears them excited over City, Liverpool, Chelsea, etc.

I just wanted to say this in here as well because I think it's so important and alarming. Kids catch on quick, and if we don't get our sh*t together for a longer period, say a few years, this will have very bad consequences down the road. Even in a commercial sense - it's something Woodward and the Glazers should be worried about.

AC Milan aren't getting bigger and better sponsorship deals in the last 7 years, and the next generation of Italian kids aren't buying Borini shirts. Success, in any area of life, is fleeting and should never be taken for granted. Especially in a competitive sport.

Hopefully we don't go down that route. But this very issue of United not being entertaining in their play just goes to show that, while style of play may not be the most important thing, it certainly is up there. And this is exactly why the fate of any club, the club's following, the club's finances, the club's stature, all of it... starts on the pitch.

As a club we've clearly forgotten this, but men like Fergie and Busby knew it very well. They both often talked to the players about how important it is to entertain!! the very people who made the club what it is - the working class Mancunians who would come out every weekend with their families and who wanted to see something exciting: skillful players bombing down the wings, attacking football, plenty of goals.

It's no coincidence that this very way of looking at football (the way that Fergie and Busby understood) is exactly what made United the most supported club in the world during the last few decades. No coincidence at all.

There's more successful clubs around the world. There's more successful clubs in Europe. Up until fairly recently there was even a more successful club in England. But that's not what captured the imagination of millions of kids around the world, who grew up to watch every single minute of United playing ever since the team was televised.

And yet, the club has forgotten this. We really need to wake the f*** up soon, because in a competitive sphere of life like sport and entertainment, you never ever stay still. You're either moving up, or you're moving down. We sure as s*** aren't moving up right now.

People honestly pluck these posts from thin air


Liverpool have been highly successful this last decade never mind the last couple years. They are defo sweeping up all the kids.

 

[Beaucoup]

Dalglish won the Prem, Martinez won the FA Cup, Di Matteo won the Champions League - want them as Utd manager? Nah didn’t think so.

You’re running out of excuses now.

Who do you want at Utd? Be realistic now.

 

[Beaucoup]

Mourinho has won zero Premierships & Champions Leagues at Man Utd, which is the same as Poch & Klopp have won at their clubs. That is all Man Utd fans want to hear, not what your manager has done at previous clubs.

Poch & Klopp have won feck all pal. We’re you not cheering when we won the Carling cup and El, not good enough for you? We’re not entitled to win the league because we’re Man Utd,the club is fecked at the moment and believe it or not, it’s not all Mourinho’s fault.

 

[Z1L3]

And you're arguing with yourself here, I wasn't making a comparison with other managers, but rather stating what was expected considering the investment made and Mourinho's reputation.

Community Shield (overblown friendly), Carabao Cup (3rd tier Cup trophy where teams mostly field their youth and fringe players) and Europa League (2nd tier European trophy) is combined with one 6th league, one 2nd place finish and FA Cup final isn't much more than a minimal success if we're being honest.

As compared to the investment that others have made (not only since Jose's arrival but over the previous years) and won nothing. That's my point.

It's hard to name United players that would make it into starting 11 of any of the top 4 contenders (except maybe Arsenal), yet somehow despite the fact that United is one of only 3 English teams to win anything in this period (another being the team that he basically built before being sacked) is here viewed by many as a massive underachievement.

Complain all you want about the entertainment factor, man and media handling, but to say that the results are disappointing considering the squad strength is unrealistic and incorrect.

 

[Shark]

Tomorrow will be a good indicator of the level of the two teams and how far each team has come under their managers - Klopp and Mourinho. Both have been given time and both have been given roughly the same money.

The table is enough of an indicator at this moment.

 

[Shark]

There is so many things wrong with this post.

1. Did you start watching United 2 years ago? The football served up under LVG especially in his final season was worse than us this season and that is saying something. Surely you must have stopped watching United play under LVG?

2. If you are a real fan of a football club then you should never stop watching unless the club is being ran by corruption and human rights issues etc.

3. Following point 2 above, no one and I mean no one is a fan of Manchester United if they would try and avoid a game vs Liverpool. This is the biggest game in England as a neutral, and an even bigger game for us fans.

4. Yes the football is very bad this season, but the club have been in much, much worse positions in the past, and stopping watching the club because they are 6th and playing badly is very entitled. How do you think fans of every other club in the country bar the top 6 feel? They have always been average clubs, for the majority of the years, yet most will still watch their club no matter what.


This kind of attitude in the post I am responding to is terrible. Loads of people on here have this attitude and it just comes across as a bit of a half arsed fan.

I agree with most of this but it’s the fans in completely different time zones that I can genuinely see an argument. Why get up at a ridiculous hour to watch the football being served up from United right now, also the attitude from half of the players is nothing short of an embarrassment. Not every fan is watching under the same circumstances

 

[K2K]

There is so many things wrong with this post.

1. Did you start watching United 2 years ago? The football served up under LVG especially in his final season was worse than us this season and that is saying something. Surely you must have stopped watching United play under LVG?

2. If you are a real fan of a football club then you should never stop watching unless the club is being ran by corruption and human rights issues etc.

3. Following point 2 above, no one and I mean no one is a fan of Manchester United if they would try and avoid a game vs Liverpool. This is the biggest game in England as a neutral, and an even bigger game for us fans.

4. Yes the football is very bad this season, but the club have been in much, much worse positions in the past, and stopping watching the club because they are 6th and playing badly is very entitled. How do you think fans of every other club in the country bar the top 6 feel? They have always been average clubs, for the majority of the years, yet most will still watch their club no matter what.


This kind of attitude in the post I am responding to is terrible. Loads of people on here have this attitude and it just comes across as a bit of a half arsed fan.

Top red this one

 

[Fracture90]

As compared to the investment that others have made (not only since Jose's arrival but over the previous years) and won nothing. That's my point.

It's hard to name United players that would make it into starting 11 of any of the top 4 contenders (except maybe Arsenal), yet somehow despite the fact that United is one of only 3 English teams to win anything in this period (another being the team that he basically built before being sacked) is here viewed by many as a massive underachievement.

Complain all you want about the entertainment factor, man and media handling, but to say that the results are disappointing considering the squad strength is unrealistic and incorrect.

But we won bunch of 2nd and 3rd tier trophies, we never challenged for the big ones under Mourinho, CL and EPL is as far as it has been under Moyes and LVG. For example people don't even count Community Shield as a trophy, whilst top teams usually send their youth and fringe players in Carabao Cup, they deem it irrelevant pretty much. That same Europa league Mourinho was laughing Benitez off for, not to mention the opposition we faced there and we barely managed to scrape a win.

Our football is dire, we got not identity, no direction, our players look lost and they're regressing manager is in his full 3rd season meltdown.

Now that's an interesting point you're trying to make, but it's only so because our players have been stagnating at best under Mourinho, but in reality they're regressing and that's why you can make an argument (even though I disagree) that based on form they can't enter any top teams, but back when Mourinho was appointed and especially after his first transfer window, it was a concensus only City had sightly better squad than us, and that's by the slimmest of margins. But hey after almost 3 years of negative football and regressing it's normal our players look poor.

 

[Fracture90]

1. Did you start watching United 2 years ago? The football served up under LVG especially in his final season was worse than us this season and that is saying something. Surely you must have stopped watching United play under LVG?

Not really sure about this one tbh, we're pretty dire.

 

[hn4manunited]

There is so many things wrong with this post.

1. Did you start watching United 2 years ago? The football served up under LVG especially in his final season was worse than us this season and that is saying something. Surely you must have stopped watching United play under LVG?

2. If you are a real fan of a football club then you should never stop watching unless the club is being ran by corruption and human rights issues etc.

3. Following point 2 above, no one and I mean no one is a fan of Manchester United if they would try and avoid a game vs Liverpool. This is the biggest game in England as a neutral, and an even bigger game for us fans.

4. Yes the football is very bad this season, but the club have been in much, much worse positions in the past, and stopping watching the club because they are 6th and playing badly is very entitled. How do you think fans of every other club in the country bar the top 6 feel? They have always been average clubs, for the majority of the years, yet most will still watch their club no matter what.


This kind of attitude in the post I am responding to is terrible. Loads of people on here have this attitude and it just comes across as a bit of a half arsed fan.

Totally agree with you. People need to look up the definition of supporting.

In the other thread somebody who teaches Primary School kids was talking about how he only hears them excited over City, Liverpool, Chelsea, etc.

I just wanted to say this in here as well because I think it's so important and alarming. Kids catch on quick, and if we don't get our sh*t together for a longer period, say a few years, this will have very bad consequences down the road. Even in a commercial sense - it's something Woodward and the Glazers should be worried about.

AC Milan aren't getting bigger and better sponsorship deals in the last 7 years, and the next generation of Italian kids aren't buying Borini shirts. Success, in any area of life, is fleeting and should never be taken for granted. Especially in a competitive sport.

Hopefully we don't go down that route. But this very issue of United not being entertaining in their play just goes to show that, while style of play may not be the most important thing, it certainly is up there. And this is exactly why the fate of any club, the club's following, the club's finances, the club's stature, all of it... starts on the pitch.

As a club we've clearly forgotten this, but men like Fergie and Busby knew it very well. They both often talked to the players about how important it is to entertain!! the very people who made the club what it is - the working class Mancunians who would come out every weekend with their families and who wanted to see something exciting: skillful players bombing down the wings, attacking football, plenty of goals.

It's no coincidence that this very way of looking at football (the way that Fergie and Busby understood) is exactly what made United the most supported club in the world during the last few decades. No coincidence at all.

There's more successful clubs around the world. There's more successful clubs in Europe. Up until fairly recently there was even a more successful club in England. But that's not what captured the imagination of millions of kids around the world, who grew up to watch every single minute of United playing ever since the team was televised.

And yet, the club has forgotten this. We really need to wake the f*** up soon, because in a competitive sphere of life like sport and entertainment, you never ever stay still. You're either moving up, or you're moving down. We sure as s*** aren't moving up right now.

It’s all about who are educating these kids. If they’re taught to support whoever are at the top of their game, we’ll have a very poor set of fans/supporters being raised. Future looks bleak.

I agree with most of this but it’s the fans in completely different time zones that I can genuinely see an argument. Why get up at a ridiculous hour to watch the football being served up from United right now, also the attitude from half of the players is nothing short of an embarrassment. Not every fan is watching under the same circumstances

i’m in a different time zone. And why wouldn’t we get up to watch our team that we support?

Top red this one

Plastic-fan and glory-hunter this one.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Totally agree with you. People need to look up the definition of supporting.



It’s all about who are educating these kids. If they’re taught to support whoever are at the top of their game, we’ll have a very poor set of fans/supporters being raised. Future looks bleak.



i’m in a different time zone. And why wouldn’t we get up to watch our team that we support?



Plastic-fan and glory-hunter this one.