Ole Gunnar Solskjaer | W15 D2 L4

Is Ole a good appointment?

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I don't want Ole to fail - on the contrary, I hope he succeeds as it's refreshing to have a manager who gets the club and its traditions. But what last night does show is that our failings as a team aren't entirely down to the manager and their motivational or tactical style. Some people were quick to put all the blame on Mourinho for the team not performing, and the players got a free pass. What we shouldn't do is now transfer those feelings directly onto the current / next manager; realise that there are deficiencies and go about fixing them. One of those deficiencies was Mourinho himself and we've fixed that, but we're still lacking depth and quality in the squad and it's showing.

For what it's worth, I reckon that the game would have been a lot tighter if Mourinho was in charge. He'd have set us up defensively and we'd have come out of it moaning about a draw or a narrow loss, having played insipid football. At least with this outcome we know that we're not at the same sort of level as the top teams in the CL, and we can start doing something about it.
 
El Zoido said:
It’s pretty grim how many of our fans seem desperate for Ole to fail and for us to lose, just so they can say “told you so”. There was some genuine glee in the post match comments from some people, apparently delighted to point out how rubbish we really are.
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Alternatively they're trolls.

Anyone critising Ole for a loss yesterday is bizarre, last season we lost to Sevilla and we had Jose come out with his shit. First loss in what, 2 months? We need a reaction for Liverpool though and given our injuries to Lingard and Martial we might need to change our approach as Sanchez, Mata and Lukaku arent suited to Oles high intensity pressing game.

Losing to the top teams isnt a concern imo. Our squad lacks quality we've all been saying it for years. When we get past this rough patch of games it'll be interesting to see if Ole can get us back on a winning run, if he does that tells me he's the man for the job because whats holding him back is the quality in the squad.

It's an important Summer window though, we need a DoF and we need them to act quickly. I still think we should be appointing the DoF asap to prepare for the Summer.
 
Grylte said:
Imagine a scenario where the top 4 teams and United had the same form for the rest of the season, from when Ole took over. Or same amount of points atleast.
Ole would have done just as well since he took over, as the PL winners, but did not get the job because of a gap up to top 4 made by our previous manager.

Mourinho/the board didn't buy better defenders, we all agree our defense is our weak point, but now it's used against Ole, who literally had nothing to do with it.

Some unfair requests from our fans, especially considering we've caught up with top 4, score a lot more goals, and most people i've spoken to (or read on here), now are actually looking forward to watching matches again.
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Yeah, it's funny how some fans suddenly have crazy high expectations that 1 defeat in 12 is somehow not good enough now, even after 5 years of garbage.
Ole is literally the guy responsible for raising their expectation level by doing better than anyone would have predicted, and now they want him gone? Makes no sense to me.
 
Litch said:
Stand by what I said previously, I don't understand Ole's substitutions at times and also I think he's slow to respond. I don't know what his ceiling is but I believe Poch's will be higher.
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Yes. I am sure that key players getting injured was part of his plan
 
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shaky said:
Yeah, it's funny how some fans suddenly have crazy high expectations that 1 defeat in 12 is somehow not good enough now, even after 5 years of garbage.
Ole is literally the guy responsible for raising their expectation level by doing better than anyone would have predicted, and now they want him gone? Makes no sense to me.
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It's not the defeat, but the nature of the defeat. We looked really naive.

There was no back-up plan when Marquinhos became Pogba's shadow, though that should have been expected by our coaches. The subbing on of Mata earlier than Lukaku was also questionable considering Mata would resemble a snail caught in a hare's race. I think this game could have used Fred too, his energy might have offered something different, and we had nothing to lose as we were trailing anyway. And we allowed a half-crocked Verratti to freely take over the midfield without a semblance of a plan.

As others indicated, we showed similar naivete in the second half against Spurs. Poch mixed things up, but Ole was unable to respond and we somehow hung on for 3 points. Basically, Ole is like Klopp-lite, in that he has a Plan A, but we are yet to see Plan B or C when the chips are down.

This isn't some defeat against Burnley or West Ham that we can put down to a bad day at the office, but being outclassed by a manager on the European stage. While this isn't enough to make me think Ole doesn't deserve the job, it raises a lot of serious questions. This job is not a cakewalk and whoever takes it will have to be competent both at beating fodder in the league convincingly with a pleasing playstyle (which Ole has done) and also exhibit a decent bit of tactical acumen in the CL (takes precedence over playstyle, we don't need beautiful football in cup games).

Let's see if Ole has learned from this. He is without some key players and facing huge tests in the form of Chelsea, Liverpool and City. That will tell more about his credentials.

On the plus side, I don't count this defeat as bad as the Sevilla one. Atleast we showed up with a plan and a clear style of play, and the game was still 50/50 in the first half despite the tactical mistakes. Injuries and a cnut of a ref didn't help.
 
Really annoys me to hear negative comments about Ole after last night. If we do appoint another manager to take over full time be prepared to wait a while to see the benefits if he brings any at all.

Ole knows the club and the values and quality needed to play for the club. Look at what he has done in short space of time since being here. Let's give him the job and let him get a pre season and transfer window to bring in quality needed. He admitted himself last night the gulf in class was there to see against PSG. He knows what players are needed to get us to that level. He has given some players the chance and some of them are not good enough and I think he has leaned alot the last few weeks about the squad.
Some of the players can't get a game as not good enough to play for a top club.
We all know we need to be more dynamic going forward that's why I think he will address that. Need more control in midfield with quality. I hope Ole gets the job I'm pleased as a fan with what he has done in this short space. I'm sure if he has his way some of them players won't be at the club.
 
Bola said:
Some of the criticism is OTT, but we can learn by looking at our mistakes

A lot of bad luck and a good PSG performance in the 2nd, but that does not absolve OGS from blame. Very poor decision to put Mata on in a position he has consistently failed and that was compounded with Sanchez on the other flank that meant we lacked pace. Not a factor that cost us the game, but it could have been significant on another day and a different decision could have clawed us back a goal (e.g. Lukaku played on the right where he has done ok, Dalot used as an emergency winger who can actually take players on)
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If you see in the performance threads, Lukaku and Dalot have mostly been criticised for poor performances, for fans to now say that these two would have made the difference is simply being unreasonable.

If we had still lost, the criticisms are going to be that OGS was wrong to put an oaf with a bad first touch (just because we need pace and he’s not even that fast after bulking up) and how foolish is it throw an inexperienced youngster into the deep end in a CL match against one of the top teams on the world.

Because we lost, there is going to be an infinite number of criticisms you can level at anyone in the team or the manager.

Which misses the point really. Quality and luck play a role in sports and sometimes a better team loses. More often than not the better team wins.

And regardless of the results in the last several games, the fact that everyone said PSG would be a big test simply acknowledges that they are supposed to be a team above us (for now). If we were expected to beat them as a matter of fact, they would not be a big test.

It’s a loss. It happens. The manager and the team will learn. We just move on to the next one.
 
KM said:
Agreed.

This place is become nauseating now. Any manager in the whole world would've struggled after losing two of their attackers in the first half due to injuries.

It's better to lose players through injuries before the match so that you can plan accordingly rather than losing them between in game.

Also this was PSG we are talking about and not fecking Sevilla
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It’s ridiculous. There were people saying that PSG were no longer the big test it was because two of their attackers Neymar and Cavani were out and they were massively weakened. But when two of our attackers get injured we are expected to perform better or as well.
 
I love the kind of football Ole want to play. Right now he have a lack of tactic understanding, but he will learn it, and i think he will learn it fast. Its a process every manager will need to go through, you have to know the players, incorporate the intern understanding between the players in every chain. Its not always that easy to just replace a player, and everything will work out.
Ole have the personality to be a excellent manager.

My only concern is, does he have the name to attract the big names to rebuild us.

We definitely need a DoF to help him.
 
fecking hell, I bet half of these guys who are critical have had their posts saved in the drafts since January, pathetic bunch.
 
Very unfair comments going on here. People forget that Solskjaer is playing against teams that have been coached since pre-season by their managers, which includes not only the tactical aspect of the game, but also the physical planning and the transfers. This man came in December and he came for a reason: We were shit. And overall he's playing a good game with the cards that were given to him, without having the privilege to mould the team in any way.

He's playing the right way, which is the exact opposite of what we've been doing before, so there has to be a learning process, not just by the players but also by the coach and the staff, seeing all of them under different situations and assesing what they really have in hands to get the best possible out of them. Considering all this I think this period until now is excellent both in terms of performance and results, because normally it wouldn't be this way with all things considered.

Yesterday was disappointing, but we tried to press and attack from the first minute and all that we saw is all that we have. PSG is better drilled than us, they managed the ball better and look far more solid in defence. Hats off to them, we shake hands and move on to the next challenge. We're just not good for this, but the sooner we start working in the right direction the sooner we'll get there.

So the question we should ask in my opinion is: does he have the tools to develop the team with time, patience, good additions to the squad? Does he have the ambition, the power to convince the players? Because I think he's got it all, and some advantage like being helped by SAF on a second plane and some of his old guard. The current staff is like a mixture of modern, fresh ideas, and at the same time knowledge and experience, with Ole being the axis and connecting everything.

Of course I'm open to other options, especially if we got trashed from on now and everything became a mess. But I really think there's something special in the way if we keep these guys in charge, so I hope we do it well enough in the coming fixtures to make that possible.
 
I wonder if Poch will be asked to beat all the top teams so fans can be satisfied?
Wonder what would happen if Poch would have lousy results 2, 3 months in. Would fans be patient with him.
 
RedPnutz said:
If you see in the performance threads, Lukaku and Dalot have mostly been criticised for poor performances, for fans to now say that these two would have made the difference is simply being unreasonable.
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What is unreasonable is playing Mata on the wing and expecting him to perform.

For the criticism that Lukaku and Dalot get, most sane fans would forgive OGS if they failed last night* in that emergency situation. Trying the same thing again and expecting a different result is unforgivable

* we will never know, but there is a good body of evidence that Lukaku is decent out there, while Dalot generally gets praise for his attacking game (While needing to work defensively)
 
Ban said:
I wonder if Poch will be asked to beat all the top teams so fans can be satisfied?
Wonder what would happen if Poch would have lousy results 2, 3 months in. Would fans be patient with him.
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He can't do anything wrong though. He could lose the first 5 games against relegation fodder and we'd hear "He needs time to implement his tactics". Ole would have been sacked before he was even hired.

Personally, if we do hire Pochettino, unless he can beat Real Madrid, City, Liverpool and Chelsea in his first 10 weeks as manager (and no transfer window allowed) I'll be calling for his head due to being tactically outclassed and looking out of his depth on the touchline.
 
Kostov said:
I'm very interested to see how we react to this under Ole. The Chelsea game will be interesting and will give us a better view on things. A bad result was bound to happen sooner rather than later, how we recover is what we find out on Monday and afterwards.
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It's going to be a tough game but as long as we don't fold I'll be happy with some fight and spirit. Regardless of the result.
 
crossy1686 said:
He can't do anything wrong though. He could lose the first 5 games against relegation fodder and we'd hear "He needs time to implement his tactics". Ole would have been sacked before he was even hired.

Personally, if we do hire Pochettino, unless he can beat Real Madrid, City, Liverpool and Chelsea in his first 10 weeks as manager (and no transfer window allowed) I'll be calling for his head due to being tactically outclassed and looking out of his depth on the touchline.
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Exactly.
Correct me if I'm wrong but his record vs rip sides isn't that great either.
 
El Zoido said:
It’s pretty grim how many of our fans seem desperate for Ole to fail and for us to lose, just so they can say “told you so”. There was some genuine glee in the post match comments from some people, apparently delighted to point out how rubbish we really are.
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It was always going to happen. A lot of knee jerk posters and some Jose cultists still yet to be deprogrammed.

Ole has done a great job at United. He took charge at one of our lowest points and got us playing good football again immediately. Won most of his games including two against top 6 sides. Came unstuck against a PSG side with lots of talent and experience. The injuries in the game didn't help and PSG losing their 2 players probably hurt us in hindsight as we are set up to counter attack and instead PSG focused more on counterattacking too, with the frightening pace of Mbappe (a quicker and more talented Rashford) and a more experienced Di Maria instead of Martial. It was a bit like the Leicester and Burnley games except PSG have much more talent.

One thing that almost nobody mentions is the fact that PSG are simply better trained and more experienced. This isn't Oles fault as he's only been here for 2 months and has already had to completely change the way we played when he joined. We also struggled to play against this sort of team under Fergie too.

I've always said I think Ole would do a good job and I stand by it, but I would also be happy if we got in a different great manager who believed in attacking football. Whoever the new manager is, he needs the funds to build a great squad, we're not winning the PL or CL without it.
 
Needs to work on his plan B. Still doing an incredible job considering the circumstances. Last night’s results doesn’t change things.
 
NinjaFletch said:
The arguments that Ole was 'tactically outclassed' tonight are, frankly, absurd. The set up was fine, but he was fecked by an unfortunate double injury at half time and PSG took advantage before we'd got to grips with the change. The two options he bought on were, of course, not suited to doing what Lingard (in particular) had done, but he had no other options.

There's simply a gulf in quality between the two sides (even when PSG have two of their key players out injured) and they won the game because of a defensive mistake by us and a moment of quality. Both of those are areas we know we need to improve.
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Trying to catch up with this post and I think I’ll stop here with a post I agree on. Ridiculous to blame this on him - we lost both our starting wingers during the game, at once.

Not sure where all these Lukaku claims are coming from - when he plays he’s the worst player in the Premier League - when he doesn’t people wonder why he wasn’t brought on.

In a game where we needed more control as Pogba was marked out of the game, Mata was a good choice. He just didn’t have the quality to execute it today against a good team.
 
Golden Nugget said:
Trying to catch up with this post and I think I’ll stop here with a post I agree on. Ridiculous to blame this on him - we lost both our starting wingers during the game, at once.

Not sure where all these Lukaku claims are coming from - when he plays he’s the worst player in the Premier League - when he doesn’t people wonder why he wasn’t brought on.

In a game where we needed more control as Pogba was marked out of the game, Mata was a good choice. He just didn’t have the quality to execute it today against a good team.
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That's the thing, I don't think anyone blames him for a loss. Of course he made mistakes yesterday but every manager does. I think there are just some people including me who still didn't jump on this bandwagon of giving him a permanent job but it doesn't mean I blame Ole for something. He did a great job so far but we need to wait until the end of the season to make a decision on him IMO.
 
This was the biggest game of Ole's management. He will learn from this, and will make him better.
I presume he worked on a formation all week to Play PSG, but when the two players went off injured, he never realised that formation would not work. Maybe Phelan or Carrick might have helped him out.

It's easy to say after the game, but maybe he should have changed the formation at half time to keep the pace in the team.

Bailey. Linderlof. Jones
Young. Matic. Herrera. Shaw
Pogba
Rashford. Lukuka

It would have been bold I guess.
 
Josh 76 said:
This was the biggest game of Ole's management. He will learn from this, and will make him better.
I presume he worked on a formation all week to Play PSG, but when the two players went off injured, he never realised that formation would not work. Maybe Phelan or Carrick might have helped him out.

It's easy to say after the game, but maybe he should have changed the formation at half time to keep the pace in the team.

Bailey. Linderlof. Jones
Young. Matic. Herrera. Shaw
Pogba
Rashford. Lukuka

It would have been bold I guess.
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We'd already brought on Sanchez before half time though, so with that above formation we'd have used all subs.

I think the error was bringing on both Sanchez and Mata as with that our goal threat became non existent. The clubs will have done their research and know that Mata and Sanchez don't contribute. Took the pressure off them. At least with Lukaku you have some goal threat and granted he's inconsistent and can be a hindrance at times, but he does at least score goals.
 
"He HAS to be judged on the games against the top sides"

Some people just love spouting out absolute bollocks. The teams above us have had their managers for several years. They've had time to build their own teams with their own players. To suggest he can only be judged on games against those teams is insanity.

Wake up and see what he has done in two months. Made up 11 points on the top 4, beaten two so called 'top sides' already and he is getting the best out of most of his first choice players. Not to mention the fact that these players have been used to dinosaur tactics for several seasons and quite clearly aren't fit enough for two high intensity games every week. And he didn't get to spend a penny in January.

If he gets top 4 after the doom and gloom in mid December, the job is his. Judge him against top sides next season when he hopefully gets players that are good enough, and has had a whole pre season to work on tactics and fitness.
 
The minute Lingard and Martial went off whatever chance we had was gone and look at our bench - what was Ole meant to do.

You are a f*cking clown if you blame Ole for yesterday. He's getting the best out of a very average bunch of players.

Despite PSG missing quite a few players - how many of our lot would get in their side?
 
Bola said:
What is unreasonable is playing Mata on the wing and expecting him to perform.

For the criticism that Lukaku and Dalot get, most sane fans would forgive OGS if they failed last night* in that emergency situation. Trying the same thing again and expecting a different result is unforgivable

* we will never know, but there is a good body of evidence that Lukaku is decent out there, while Dalot generally gets praise for his attacking game (While needing to work defensively)
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Our options were limited. For what it’s worth, fans were not praising Dalot nor thinking Lukaku was decent in their most recent games so you can be certain that if we had lost the knives would have been out as well.

All ifs and buts. However it is totally understandable and even reasonable to send out Mata and Sanchez, two players with proven quality and experience at CL level.
 
Potentially losing both Martial and Lingard for Chelsea and Liverpool certainly won’t help him in the slightest. Things could turn ugly fast, be interesting to see how we respond now.
 
It was a woeful performance, that was the most concerning bit. You can lose to quality sides, even at home, that's fine but this is a side that Liverpool, Lyon and Napoli ripped through time and time and time again in their home games but apparently us not even making their goalie make a save is totally fine, Poch, money, referees bla bla bla.
 
mariachi-19 said:
Its quite amazing. One loss against quality opposition and suddenly there are question marks? 1 game where two injuries virtually crippled us attacking wise and this is the stick to beat him with?
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It's fair to say there are question marks. It's been magnificent thus far but it's a very tiny managerial stint at United were judging him by, so there are going to be doubts about his ability.

I personally don't hold this result or performance against Ole. We simply met a better side. But he is being judged in an ongoing basis and that will always be the case. Personally Ive been in wait and watch territory as I feel we should judge the direction we're headed in 2 months from now and then take our call. But I am leaning towards Ole currently.
 
Shark said:
Potentially losing both Martial and Lingard for Chelsea and Liverpool certainly won’t help him in the slightest. Things could turn ugly fast, be interesting to see how we respond now.
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Darn we need Martial back for Liverpool.
 
mariachi-19 said:
Its quite amazing. One loss against quality opposition and suddenly there are question marks? 1 game where two injuries virtually crippled us attacking wise and this is the stick to beat him with?
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Question marks remain and are to be expected, regardless of the outcome of that game.

That would always be the case too, even with a much more proven manager than Solskjaer.
 
The way I see it, if Ole gets the job - it'll be on merit and I'm more than happy with that. If it doesn't work out for him from here on in, the silver linking in the cloud is that we will go for Poch or someone of his ilk.

It's kind of win win because I want Ole badly but I mean it's not to be, I'd also like Poch or Zidane here.
 
MaxiPaxi said:
The way I see it, if Ole gets the job - it'll be on merit and I'm more than happy with that. If it doesn't work out for him from here on in, the silver linking in the cloud is that we will go for Poch or someone of his ilk.

It's kind of win win because I want Ole badly but I mean it's not to be, I'd also like Poch or Zidane here.
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Yeah we all want it work with Ole but we have to make the right call here which is why I'm not entirely sold yet. To be fair to Ole I'm half sold which is in itself incredible given the position he took us over in. We must allow him a few bad peformances and results. Nobody comes in and wins everything playing perfect football.
 
There's a weird vibe to the comments on this thread. Anyone even floating the idea that OGS might not be cut out to be our permanent manager risks being accused of being a Pocchetino fan, or Jose loyalist, who is taking enormous pleasure at putting the boot into Ole. Based on nothing more than 90 minutes of football, with a shit referee and terrible luck with injuries.

I think it's possible to have doubts about his long term suitability (doubts 99% of this place had when he was appointed!) without being guilty of any of the above. I was pleased when he was signed as interim manager because he's a fecking great guy, who's been responsible for some of my favourite moments as a fan (from the '99 CL final, to his humble response to the goal he scored on his return from a knee injury that looked like it might end his career). So how can I not feel pleased for him/the club when something like that happens? On paper, though, he never looked like the right man to take on such a big job as our permanent manager. The amazing run of results did muddy the waters but you can't ignore the combination of a favourable run of fixtures and the massive feel good factor you get from firing a toxic wet blanket like Mourinho. You don't get more ideal conditions for one of those "new manager bounce" run of results you see at most other clubs (although, weirdly, not at United until now). The same sort of thing that had Sarri and Emery put on a pedestal in the very recent past. And now look at them!

Every "new manager bounce" comes to an end, eventually and only the most deluded United fan wouldn't be worried, deep down, that this is what we're watching now. All the more so when you consider last night shouldn't have come as a massive surprise, considering we've been average to poor at Old Trafford, fairly consistently, since half time in the game against Spurs.

So yeah, this could be the beginning of the end of Ole's stint as manager. And that's no reflection on him, as he was handed an incredibly difficult job and was only hired to see us through to the end of the season anyway. It would be nice if we see the rest of his time at United through without all the bun-fighting and slanging matches that accompanied the end of every other manager we've had since Fergie retired. I guess that's just a pipe dream...
 
Time will tell if its new manager bounce but Im not treating that as my base case scenario. As far as Im concerned we go out and tear Chelsea a new one next week, as perfect preparation for the Liverpool game. Do them and then we are back in a positive mindset again and we finish the season strongly.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
There's a weird vibe to the comments on this thread. Anyone even floating the idea that OGS might not be cut out to be our permanent manager risks being accused of being a Pocchetino fan, or Jose loyalist, who is taking enormous pleasure at putting the boot into Ole. Based on nothing more than 90 minutes of football, with a shit referee and terrible luck with injuries.

I think it's possible to have doubts about his long term suitability (doubts 99% of this place had when he was appointed!) without being guilty of any of the above. I was pleased when he was signed as interim manager because he's a fecking great guy, who's been responsible for some of my favourite moments as a fan (from the '99 CL final, to his humble response to the goal he scored on his return from a knee injury that looked like it might end his career). So how can I not feel pleased for him/the club when something like that happens? On paper, though, he never looked like the right man to take on such a big job as our permanent manager. The amazing run of results did muddy the waters but you can't ignore the combination of a favourable run of fixtures and the massive feel good factor you get from firing a toxic wet blanket like Mourinho. You don't get more ideal conditions for one of those "new manager bounce" run of results you see at most other clubs (although, weirdly, not at United until now). The same sort of thing that had Sarri and Emery put on a pedestal in the very recent past. And now look at them!

Every "new manager bounce" comes to an end, eventually and only the most deluded United fan wouldn't be worried, deep down, that this is what we're watching now. All the more so when you consider last night shouldn't have come as a massive surprise, considering we've been average to poor at Old Trafford, fairly consistently, since half time in the game against Spurs.
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Great post here.

I actually feel the most reactionary posts are coming from posters declaring that Ole is definitely the right man for the job after what we've seen thus far...

I love the guy, and I'm so impressed with what he's shown thus far. I think he deserves another shot at a PL team, but for me that level (for now) would be a Watford, a Southampton, a Bournemouth etc. And that's a fecking compliment! That shows he's got something!

But to take over United, to wrestle dominance away from Guardiola and Klopp, to handle this board, to clear out the dead-wood...?

For me, he isn't ready yet - it will take a truly special manager. Which Ole might well become, but in my opinion, needs a few years honing his craft yet.

Just as being the number 1 striker for a team that wants to win the biggest trophies takes a truly special striker. You can't just give it to a youngster who's shown promise and expect them to meet the grade - and if you do do that... you might actually end up limiting their development in the future...
 
"We lost to PSG because Lingard had to go off with an injury" - say that to the Caf a couple years ago :lol:
What has Ole done to you guys? ;)

Always thought Lingard has been very underrated around here, good to see that more of you lot can see his importance to the team now too.
Pretty sure we'd done a lot better with Sanchez on for Martial if Lingard could play the whole 90 minutes.
 
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