I fully agree with this post. Regarding the bold, maybe @Amadaeus would care to explain?
The counter argument is that the team was not better than anyone and the said talents were not really developed to start with.
And I suppose there is some truth to that but young players are almost certainly going to get better. If you are buying a highly rated youngster (which Son/Eriksen/Alli were) than you’d expect them to improve a lot in the next few years which again leads me more to compliment Levy for bringing in the talent and not Poch for not ruining their natural development once they got there. Maybe that seems a little harsh but as far as player development goes I think Poch has done what you’d expect a good coach to do and I think he’s a good coach.
Most of us were saying Poch isn't good enough for United job for ages but his die hard fans just don't want to admit it.Since when do We judge managers on game to game basis?
Ole lost, people said He's not the manager We should appoint.
Poch lost, people said He's not the manager We should appoint.
But wait all it takes is a few convincing wins and They're back at it again!
Agree completely.
I’m not going to use United’s squad for an argument to compare as I know I’m biased. If we compare to Arsenal’s, Spurs are far superior I think, I also think it is better than Chelsea’s. Even against Liverpool I don’t see much difference but Im naturally biased against them also, I still can’t believe how well they are doing with their midfield
I don't see anything wrong with the position they're in, they're below the two best teams in England and above Us (we were crap at the start), Chelsea (They haven't been anything good, take hazard out and they're average) and Arsenal (Well, they're arse).
It's out of context - I was replying to another comment. I think Poch is a great manager and would be happy if he gets the United job, though my heart is set on Ole. Just annoyed by the suggestion Ole is tactically naive and Poch is light years ahead in this regard. We haven't seen enough evidence to judge that yet.
it'll be fun to see when it eventually happens.If he does that then there's an expectation to win, and with him, much like Klopp, they prefer to be the underdog so when they do achieve it's a case of over achievement and less pressure to meet expectations. He won't leave and he won't start winning trophies, he's happy where he is, he can do what he wants.
I guess I just don’t see how that’s true. He’s had years to put together a squad that suits his playing style (which is not true for the managers of Chelsea, Arsenal and ourselves) which is a big help, and if you made a combined 11 as an example of comparison between our squads there are a lot of Spurs players for me.
Why are they producing more?
Because currently they might be better players and are definitely playing in a system that suits them more? Maybe they are in worse form than I realized because I haven’t been watching all of Spurs games recently but from what I have seen they’d be an improvement on our options on the right wing.
Sure he got players that suit his style, or rather he is finding systems that suit his players which is all down to the manager. Poch often has to rely on and develop academy players such as Winks, Skipp and Walker Peters and in the past Mason, or young players such as Foyth and Sanchez. Most players Pochettino bought were players other big teams didn't want such as Moura, Son, Sissoko, Trippier, Davies, Alderweireld. He also managed to get the most from other players who I guess people now would say were under-performing such as Walker, Rose and Dembele.
I don't think the manager has been born yet who can cope with Real on a sustained basis. They should have moved heaven and earth to keep Zidane happy after what he did for them.Imagine Poch trying to deal with the pressure of the Real job
I would generally agree with all of that and especially the bold part. I think he’s very good and I think Spurs should be very happy to have him. I just think the way he’s been talked about on the Caf lately it’s like he’s somehow jumped into the category of elite managers and I just don’t think he’s earned that at this point.
What about Klopp? Is he underperforming too? After all, the only cup he's lifted with Liverpool thus far is probably the cup of coffee he drinks every morning at Anfield. Most importantly, should their board be credided for assembling a good squad on the cheap -especially after selling their most valuable asset twice and not spending the money on ready-made world-class replacements- or should the German take the credit for identifying low on radar targets that suit his brand of football and thus helping these players reach their full potential and the whole team perform much better than the sum of its parts?
There are more ways than one to interpret what is/has been happening. And I completely understand why some don't rate him as highly as myself and I have no problem with that.
Pretty much this. Is he some exceptional tactical mastermind that can get his players playing well above their potential? No. He clearly has good players, but it's pretty clear that he's improved those players and put them in to a system which suits them and is effective. A lot of the players people consider excellent now simply weren't rated as highly when Poch took over, he's developed them superbly. Rose and Walker for example were headless chickens who most considered a weakness at Spurs, a year or two later and they were one of our biggest strengths.
Going to largely ignore your Klopp tangent because I feel it’s for a different thread but no neither are underperforming. At no point did I imply in any way I thought that Poch should be doing better than he is.
Maybe money shouldn’t be the conversation point but it usually is what is brought up which is what I was addressing. I think he has done a good job of player development but my argument is that young players should get better. Maybe my lost didn’t seem to give him enough credit for that but your post makes it sound like none of these players would have amounted to anything I’d Poch wasn’t holding their hand through every training session and I disagree with that.
Wtf are you on about here?? At no point did I say anything remotely along the lines of expecting them to win the title or any silverware. And then you go on about how much money is spent where you previously said that it’s what mattered.
Overall I actually agree with a lot of what you said actually which is why it seems strange that you felt the need to put words in my mouth and make up arguments that I didn’t make. There is a big difference between thinking someone is overachieving and someone is underachieving. My point is that I think he has his squad is performing about as it should be which therefore isn’t overachieving as many on here are lauding him for.
This is basically the point I wanted to make. It’s not meant as a criticism of Poch, more a compliment to Spurs overall. I just have some issue with people who seem to want to give Poch sole credit for everything good Spurs have done and then also claim that he is massively overachieving on top of it. I think he is a good manager of a team that should expect to be near the top of the league and that’s a credit to him and the organization.
I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, i was just asking some questions to see where you stand on the matter. Apologies if my post came out in a way that made you believe so.
In that case I also apologize for misreading your intentions with the questions you asked and being more defensive than I should have. I would agree with you that we seem to be in agreement on most of this subject.
Burnley have a much smaller budget and less rotation than Spurs and won, so by your logic is Dyche better than Poch?
Anamolies happens in football. I never set the logic you stated I set.
That's bollocks. Out of the top teams City is the only one that has real strength in depth.
Your tagline should be changed from "Ooh, rock me!" to "Ooh, Poch me!" or something.
Aye yeah winning a one off game by playing shithouse tactics is definitely equivalent to overachieving across an entire season.
Poch doesn't really overachieve though.
He's massively overachieved overall at Spurs given what the original targets would have been and the money he has been able to invest. He also did very well to weather a serious injury crisis, has us almost in to a CL quarter final vs a very strong Dortmund side. We're arguably the third best squad in the league but he has us VERY comfortably in third and doing very well in Europe. This team was also built by him, so the credit for that should go his way for developing the players.
