What next for Mourinho?

[roonster09]

I never said it isn’t but it’s frequently used as a excuse when teams don’t perform to use fitness. I mean there is much more on training than only fitness.

Of course there is more than just fitness but when your team is not fit and out run consistently by your opponents then it's hard to achieve what you want to. Solskjaer showed what can be achieved when team presses and works hard, shame it wasn't sustainable with so many injuries and months later it wasn't sustainable for whole game.

 

[haram]

Of course there is more than just fitness but when your team is not fit and out run consistently by your opponents then it's hard to achieve what you want to. Solskjaer showed what can be achieved when team presses and works hard, shame it wasn't sustainable with so many injuries and months later it wasn't sustainable for whole game.

It’s not going to become sustainable by having a pre season either. Unless we keep the ball better it will never be sustainable. We lack the players to keep the ball period.

 

[roonster09]

It’s not going to become sustainable by having a pre season either. Unless we keep the ball better it will never be sustainable. We lack the players to keep the ball period.

Luckily we are allowed to work on tactics, sign players in preseason and transfer window.

 

[haram]

Luckily we are allowed to work on tactics, sign players in preseason and transfer window.

We can work on tactics right now and look at us. Everyone said these players were capable of more than what was shown under Jose and now the narrative has changed.

 

[roonster09]

We can work on tactics right now and look at us. Everyone said these players were capable of more than what was shown under Jose and now the narrative has changed.

And they have showed more after Jose when Ole set up to play with intensity and then injuries, shit fitness everything showed.

Yeah, without fitness team will press high and regain possession, it's easy isn't it? This team was 20th in distance covered under Jose, shows how shit preparation was and how shit fitness was.

 

[SCP]

And they have showed more after Jose when Ole set up to play with intensity and then injuries, shit fitness everything showed.

Yeah, without fitness team will press high and regain possession, it's easy isn't it? This team was 20th in distance covered under Jose, shows how shit preparation was and how shit fitness was.

Yeah I wonder if Molde played that high press football. If you want to believe everything is explained by lack of fitness I don’t know who’s being naive here. Do you guys always use Mourinho to excuse everything bad under Ole? But yeah in 6 months if the team is playing better, covering more distance and winning more I tag you and say I was wrong. For now I am not convinced on that.

 

[roonster09]

Yeah I wonder if Molde played that high press football. If you want to believe everything is explained by lack of fitness I don’t know who’s being naive here. Do you guys always use Mourinho to excuse everything bad under Ole? But yeah in 6 months if the team is playing better, covering more distance and winning more I tag you and say I was wrong. For now I am not convinced on that.

I'm not saying everything is because of lack of fitness, I'm saying it has played big role.

Of course this is Jose + Woodward's mess. Not sure how anyone can argue against that. Solskjaer didn't sign a single player, didn't have preseason or transfer window. He is just going with what he has. He has showed how good we can be with better fitness.

Whether Solskjaer will be a success or not is another discussion, point is you can't achieve much with such a shit preparation and fitness levels. It's not coincidence that top teams have combination of good players and work rate.

 

[GM K]

It's clear in my mind really. If Jose had been backed fully last Summer, if he had been allowed to discipline or sell anyone he wanted to discipline or sell (including Pogba and Martial and regardless of transfer errors he made before), we would have been top contenders for the title this season. This would have cost us more money and earned us not so appealing football. But certainly a clear shot at the title because he is just so good at winning titles once he has the team he wants.

 

[always_hoping]

Whatever is next for Jose he will need Rui Faria with him as he is totally lost especially defensively without him.

 

[andersj]

We can work on tactics right now and look at us. Everyone said these players were capable of more than what was shown under Jose and now the narrative has changed.

More than anything you are trying to create a narrative that everyone said that.

 

[haram]

And they have showed more after Jose when Ole set up to play with intensity and then injuries, shit fitness everything showed.

Yeah, without fitness team will press high and regain possession, it's easy isn't it? This team was 20th in distance covered under Jose, shows how shit preparation was and how shit fitness was.

If we only have 50% possession, what do you think is gonna happen throughout a season where we adopt high intensity pressing? Pre season working on fitness is only going to help soo much. We need to keep the ball better period. It isn’t just about fitness and bum rush football.

 

[haram]

More than anything you are trying to create a narrative that everyone said that.

That this team would be better off under another manager or under different tactics? That is literally what people were saying.

 

[roonster09]

If we only have 50% possession, what do you think is gonna happen throughout a season where we adopt high intensity pressing? Pre season working on fitness is only going to help soo much. We need to keep the ball better period. It isn’t just about fitness and bum rush football.

We will dominate possession against every non top 6 team and few more at home.

 

[AJ10]

Yeah I wonder if Molde played that high press football. If you want to believe everything is explained by lack of fitness I don’t know who’s being naive here. Do you guys always use Mourinho to excuse everything bad under Ole? But yeah in 6 months if the team is playing better, covering more distance and winning more I tag you and say I was wrong. For now I am not convinced on that.

Molde did play high press under Ole (bit like klopp's pressing) and we did start to see some of it at the start but once those injuries happened, we've been just counter attacking. Not everything was jose's fault but Lack of fitness is certainly on the previous manager and anyone saying otherwise really has a hard on for jose.

It's clear in my mind really. If Jose had been backed fully last Summer, if he had been allowed to discipline or sell anyone he wanted to discipline or sell (including Pogba and Martial and regardless of transfer errors he made before), we would have been top contenders for the title this season. This would have cost us more money and earned us not so appealing football. But certainly a clear shot at the title because he is just so good at winning titles once he has the team he wants.

Lumping it to the tree wouldn't have been enough to challenge this city/pool. He had 4 transfer windows to sell the deadwood but he's the one who made them the first names on the team sheet. He could have sold martial/pogba but only to buy inter/chelsea old boys. Not sure how replacing pogba/martial would have helped us compete for the title vs city when the rest of the squad is around mid table (bar one or two) and he bought a 50 mil midfielder (when it was clear we needed RW/RB/CB) to only then go on to say he won't be played until he gets a CB, regardless of how much money a manager has if he doesn't use it to strengthen his squads weak areas then no amount of money will help (signing a young RB doesn't help when you need first team RB urgently).

He knows (or knew) how to win titles but he didn't address our weak areas when he had the chance and lots of money (as he did with his previous teams). Not sure how you can say he would have us challenge city when there's clear evidence of him not even focusing on the problems we had but he was busy pointing fingers at everyone else to stroke his ego.

 

[haram]

We will dominate possession against every non top 6 team and few more at home.

We will run out of steam throughout the season. That’s what will happen. Then people will wonder why we look slower or start to press less. A team like City keep the ball so well that when it’s time to press they have the energy for it. They of course have a deeper squad as well.

 

[roonster09]

We will run out of steam throughout the season. That’s what will happen. Then people will wonder why we look slower or start to press less. A team like City keep the ball so well that when it’s time to press they have the energy for it. They of course have a deeper squad as well.

Check Dortmund's possession when they won league titles

 

[Jim Beam]

It's clear in my mind really. If Jose had been backed fully last Summer, if he had been allowed to discipline or sell anyone he wanted to discipline or sell (including Pogba and Martial and regardless of transfer errors he made before), we would have been top contenders for the title this season. This would have cost us more money and earned us not so appealing football. But certainly a clear shot at the title because he is just so good at winning titles once he has the team he wants.

You think we would hit +95 points in that scenario?

 

[andersj]

That this team would be better off under another manager or under different tactics? That is literally what people were saying.

People? Everyone? I’m sure some said that, but most who argued against Mourinho had different arguments than that against him. You prefer to ignore these and focus on the «stupid argument» that you can attack.

I think a minority attacked him soley due to failing to get the best out of the players. That being said, an average manager from Eliteserien probably has a higher point per game in the PL with «Mourinhos squad» than Mourinho managed himself. So maybe it is a valid point anyway.

 

[haram]

People? Everyone? I’m sure some said that, but most who argued against Mourinho had a lot of different arguments than that against him. You prefer to ignore these and focus on the «stupid argument» that you can attack.

That was the most popular criticism of Jose. That his tactics were wrong, that we should attack more and that the players would be better off under another manager. To suggest this wasn’t being said is laughable.

 

[andersj]

That was the most popular criticism of Jose. That his tactics were wrong, that we should attack more and that the players would be better off under another manager. To suggest this wasn’t being said is laughable.

I understand that you prefer to see it that way as it makes your case easier. And I’m not saying that it was not being said. In fact, it was probably even correct. But it was not the most relevant or only argument against Mourinho.

In the post below I listed some of the most common arguments people had during Mourinhos time here and after he left.

This is the narrative that Mourinho supporters try to create in the aftermath.

Some probably did expect more from the players. But I do not think that this was the mayor issue last year. I can not speak for every fan, but for me (and I felt it was similar for most others), the biggest problems was the following;

- The quality of the football produced was poor

Mourinho and his supporters keep saying that finishing 2nd was a great achievement. But we were not the second best team in the PL. In fact, if you look at the statistics and exclude DDG, I’m not sure we were even among the four or five best teams in the PL. Five teams had a higher xPTS than MU. And I do not think we would have finished 1st if City was not there (Liverpool shifted there focus to the CL when the PL was out of reach).

- We should have been better

Fact is we were a better team than Liverpool when Mourinho came in. We had finished above them twice in a row and produced better results in the cups.

With Mourinho charge we spent a similar amount (in fact, a bit more) and we did so (unlike Liverpool) without selling any key players. In fact, by this time last year, we had spent alot more than Liverpool during JMs spell. But Liverpool looked a lot better.

- When JM came in, we needed a boss in defence, a boss in midfield, a centre forward and a right winger.

With Mourinho in charge we spent huge amounts. But we still need a central defender, a boss in midfield, a centre forward and a right winger. Furthermore, we need a right back. We even spent money on a few of his former players, and even they failed. It did not look as if Mourinho knew how to use them and get the best from them.

In fact, most of our players looked better for their national teams during the world cup than they did for us.

- Last summer he tried forcing the club to bring in players like Willian, Perisic and Boateng. We should be thankfull that the club, by the time, stopped him.

- His attitude and the atmosphere he created. Similar to what he has happend at most clubs where has been more then two years.

 

[Lentwood]

Back to Serie A? National Team?

Seems like his days at the top level are well and truly finished, but it'll be interesting to see what he can do with a club with slightly lower ambitions, if as I expect that's where he ends up.

I've only just seen this...."finished at the top level"??? Honestly, the worst club Jose will ever have had the displeasure of managing in his entire career is us! The only way is up for Jose!

It's so disrespectful to a man that is still the ONLY man to have won league titles in La Liga, Serie A & the Premier League. Don't forget has also won European trophies with three different clubs from three different countries

I'm sure give it 7/8 years Jose will have added a Bundesliga and a Ligue Un to that list and we will still be in 6th calling our then-manager crap whilst Ed & the Glazers reveal our 18th alarm clock partner

 

[bucky]

It's clear in my mind really. If Jose had been backed fully last Summer, if he had been allowed to discipline or sell anyone he wanted to discipline or sell (including Pogba and Martial and regardless of transfer errors he made before), we would have been top contenders for the title this season. This would have cost us more money and earned us not so appealing football. But certainly a clear shot at the title because he is just so good at winning titles once he has the team he wants.

There's nothing to support this claim. He wanted to sign most of the player that he signed. He talked about Fred as someone, who could give our midfield balance. He brought in an ageing Matic. Lukaku has always had a subpar workrate, he signed him anyway. Dalot, who's nowhere near ready. Lindelof who did become better once Mourinho was sacked. Mkhitaryan and Sanchez were endorsed by him as well. At some point some of you need to look at how many mistakes he made and stop with this nonsense that he wasn't backed. For him to be successful we would have needed to sign a better RB, 2 more experienced CBs, a better LB since he couldn't get the best out of Shaw, a replacement for Matic, a replacement for Pogba, Willian as the right winger supposedly, Perisic as Martial's replacement and you could argue that he needed someone else than Lukaku as well. I honestly don't see how you can genuinely think that he needed to be backed more, since he already was and even if we had backed him, it wouldn't have been enough, since he Mourinho would have needed more.

 

[SCP]

Molde did play high press under Ole (bit like klopp's pressing) and we did start to see some of it at the start but once those injuries happened, we've been just counter attacking. Not everything was jose's fault but Lack of fitness is certainly on the previous manager and anyone saying otherwise really has a hard on for jose.

First off all questioning this logic has nothing to do with the previous manager and I am sure between thousands of crap posts I have on my historic here you will find a few of mine related with Mourinho.

But I am certainly not stupid to see in the last few weeks a new narrative was born. Fitness.

Was lack of fitness who made Ole lose 7 out of 9 or 10 games? I don’t buy that. Now if that makes me an apologist...

High press under Ole? Where? Certainly not against PSG. Not vs Spurs. Not vs Liverpool. Was it really high press vs Chelsea too?

I think there are a couple of wishful thinkers here who want to create narratives, and while I agree Fitness is a factor it’s only one amongst many.

By the way Mourinho wasn’t the solution. But I have serious doubts that OGS can compete against Guardiola or Klopp.

And it’s not based on improving the fitness levels of the team who will change that, at best will only improve.

 

[sunama]

Whatever is next for Jose he will need Rui Faria with him as he is totally lost especially defensively without him.

I do agree with this.
Jose with Rui is a powerful combination and it would silly for both of them not to rekindle their partnership.

 

[sunama]

It's clear in my mind really. If Jose had been backed fully last Summer, if he had been allowed to discipline or sell anyone he wanted to discipline or sell (including Pogba and Martial and regardless of transfer errors he made before), we would have been top contenders for the title this season.

I do agree with this, but it's all what-ifs.
There isn't any point in this.
We need to look to the future and Ole is now the guy to back.

My gut feeling tells me that Ole will be sacked in 2019, but I hope I am wrong and he actually does a good job.

 

[andersj]

First off all questioning this logic has nothing to do with the previous manager and I am sure between thousands of crap posts I have on my historic here you will find a few of mine related with Mourinho.

But I am certainly not stupid to see in the last few weeks a new narrative was born. Fitness.

Was lack of fitness who made Ole lose 7 out of 9 or 10 games? I don’t buy that. Now if that makes me an apologist...

High press under Ole? Where? Certainly not against PSG. Not vs Spurs. Not vs Liverpool. Was it really high press vs Chelsea too?

I think there are a couple of wishful thinkers here who want to create narratives, and while I agree Fitness is a factor it’s only one amongst many.

By the way Mourinho wasn’t the solution. But I have serious doubts that OGS can compete against Guardiola or Klopp.

And it’s not based on improving the fitness levels of the team who will change that, at best will only improve.

I think another narrative some Mourinho fans tries to create is that if Ole fails, it will indicate Mourinho was right and doing great all along with the ressources he was handed. I think that is another fallacy.

OGS was an average coach in Eliteserien when he got the job at Man Utd. If he succeed it will be a big blow for «elite football coaches». It will almost be proof that the engine is more important than the man on the wheel.

 

[AshRK]

I've only just seen this...."finished at the top level"??? Honestly, the worst club Jose will ever have had the displeasure of managing in his entire career is us! The only way is up for Jose!

It's so disrespectful to a man that is still the ONLY man to have won league titles in La Liga, Serie A & the Premier League. Don't forget has also won European trophies with three different clubs from three different countries

I'm sure give it 7/8 years Jose will have added a Bundesliga and a Ligue Un to that list and we will still be in 6th calling our then-manager crap whilst Ed & the Glazers reveal our 18th alarm clock partner

Although it sounds funny but it is also scary that I can see this happening. As much as some of here don't want to accept he is still a top coach who will be working for a top club and winning stuffs.

 

[AJ10]

First off all questioning this logic has nothing to do with the previous manager and I am sure between thousands of crap posts I have on my historic here you will find a few of mine related with Mourinho.

But I am certainly not stupid to see in the last few weeks a new narrative was born. Fitness.

Was lack of fitness who made Ole lose 7 out of 9 or 10 games? I don’t buy that. Now if that makes me an apologist...

High press under Ole? Where? Certainly not against PSG. Not vs Spurs. Not vs Liverpool. Was it really high press vs Chelsea too?

I think there are a couple of wishful thinkers here who want to create narratives, and while I agree Fitness is a factor it’s only one amongst many.

By the way Mourinho wasn’t the solution. But I have serious doubts that OGS can compete against Guardiola or Klopp.

And it’s not based on improving the fitness levels of the team who will change that, at best will only improve.

Having a hard on for jose wasn't directed towards you but everyone who say fitness wasn't his fault.

Fitness was an issue even when we were winning every game, we got tired after 60 mins then just tried to keep possession and slow the game down. its only a narrative if you didn't see posts regarding our teams fitness issues when we were winning, so not sure where you got this rubbish about people who are now creating a narrative when we're loosing. Its in your head.

If you miss sitters like we did vs wolves (second game)/Arsenal then regardless of the manager/player fitness level or quality you simply won't get anything out of those games and city/barca are beating us most days as we're not good enough at the moment.

Fortunately we played more than just vs psg/pool/spurs and i did say after injuries we just went counter attack rather than trying to play high press, read my post again.

I have my doubt as well regarding Ole being able to compete with pep/klopp but with better fitness level of our players/ selling some of the deadwood and buying decent players I do have high hopes of us not playing like cowards vs lower teams like we did with the previous manager.

 

[Suedesi]

Mou will not go to the french league for sure (especially if is not PSG), I expect Bayern or Chelsea, not Inter becouse Conte seems the favourite.

There's no fecking way Bayern would hire Mourinho.

 

[Suedesi]

Klopp didnt win anything and is still backed. We finished above Liverpool and reached a FA cup final and what did Woodward do? That’s his point.

We reached a FA Cup final, but Liverpool reached a CL final. Come on, it's clear they had a better season last year than we did.

 

[Suedesi]

Lindelof
Pogba
Bailly
Dalot
Fred
Lukaku

Ibra
Matic
Mkhi - Sanchez

Ibra was also a short term deal and was replaced by 24 year old Lukaku. He also introduced Scott into the first team.

For the outlay, it's been an unmitigated disaster.

 

[andersj]

We reached a FA Cup final, but Liverpool reached a CL final. Come on, it's clear they had a better season last year than we did.

I also think it was easy to see based on the performances in the PL, despite our position, that they were a better team than us. We did not progress much under Mourinho considering how much we spent, and I appreciate that we did not throw more money at a project that obviously was bad.

 

[haram]

I also think it was easy to see based on the performances in the PL, despite our position, that they were a better team than us. We did not progress much under Mourinho considering how much we spent, and I appreciate that we did not throw more money at a project that obviously was bad.

This is what I mean. They finished below us. We were above them the whole season. They couldn’t beat us when we met, infact we won pretty easily at Old Tarfford. They purchase Fabinho, Keita, van Dijk, Allison, Shaqiri because the board backed the manager. Even before that season Jose won two trophies. Our home record was good. Our record against the top 6 was good. This is despite the limitations the squad has.

If you put Young and Valencia into this Liverpool team what happens? People disregard even these small details when looking at us last season.

 

[0le]

I don't think the United job has damaged his career that much given how poorly United have done before him and also recently with Ole. He will probably head to PSG or go back to Italy. He will continue to do well if he is backed but he will never be at any club long term because of his toxic nature.

 

[SCP]

I think another narrative some Mourinho fans tries to create is that if Ole fails, it will indicate Mourinho was right and doing great all along with the ressources he was handed. I think that is another fallacy.

OGS was an average coach in Eliteserien when he got the job at Man Utd. If he succeed it will be a big blow for «elite football coaches». It will almost be proof that the engine is more important than the man on the wheel.

I am not on that camp.

 

[andersj]

This is what I mean. They finished below us. We were above them the whole season. They couldn’t beat us when we met, infact we won pretty easily at Old Tarfford. They purchase Fabinho, Keita, van Dijk, Allison, Shaqiri because the board backed the manager. Even before that season Jose won two trophies. Our home record was good. Our record against the top 6 was good. This is despite the limitations the squad has.

If you put Young and Valencia into this Liverpool team what happens? People disregard even these small details when looking at us last season.

We finished above them because of DDG and luck. And because Liverpool (and City when we met them in the end) had their eyes on the CL as the PL was basically over.

They could not beat us of the same reason top teams struggle to beat Wolves this year. Because we played reactive, defensive football. When you do that with good players you are hard to beat.

They backed Klopp because they saw progress. They saw what he could perform with players like Mane and Salah. How he developed Firmino, Robertson, TAA, Gomez, Milner and Winjaldum.

It is not hard to understand that our board was reluctant to give Mourinho more money after watching Sanchez, Pogba, Lukaku and Matic last year. Or even Bailly and Lindelof. And now he wanted Perisic, Willian and Boateng? Expensive players past their peak?

 

[shamans]

Mourinho is like a teenage kid who disrespects his dad, fails at class, spends all his money on weed and then complains why he cant be trusted with the family business like Tommy's responsible son

 

[haram]

We finished above them because of DDG and luck.

Quite simply, no.

 

[Buster15]

And all the garbage players mou bought? This guy is a failure. Face it.

Suddenly winning a Europa league with a flukey second place finish is our glory.

Not to mention the crap situation hes put us in with failed players. Cant believe Mourinho, the guy who bought these players is the same one blaming them.

So. You think that a Europa League, which incidentally got us back into the CL doesn't count.
And finishing second in the PL over 38 games is a fluke.
Don't know much about football then.

 

[Buster15]

It's clear in my mind really. If Jose had been backed fully last Summer, if he had been allowed to discipline or sell anyone he wanted to discipline or sell (including Pogba and Martial and regardless of transfer errors he made before), we would have been top contenders for the title this season. This would have cost us more money and earned us not so appealing football. But certainly a clear shot at the title because he is just so good at winning titles once he has the team he wants.

Good to see that someone actually understands instead of sounding off with daft comments about one of the most successful managers in modern times.