Just had it pointed out to me that Varys was trying to poison Dany at the start of the episode. I thought he was just worried that she was was too stressed to eat. 
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
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I hope whoever was responsible for appointing the Queensguard died in the fires.
They had full plate armour on and are presumably Knights yet somehow managed to be even less useful than the Lannister levies in leather armour, and all died in one hit.
They had full plate armour on and are presumably Knights yet somehow managed to be even less useful than the Lannister levies in leather armour, and all died in one hit.
It's like Walter White started killing people in the last episode of season 1. I could get behind the idea but it just seemed so rushed that it doesn't feel like natural development.
he killed someone in the third episode of the first season...
This has basically descended into Dexter. What a shit show.
As a spectacle, it was a good episode.
As a spectacle, it was a good episode.
You know what I mean
I find it a bit weird that people can't understand why Dany would slaughter civilians just because she was angry with Cersei or whatever. She wasn't angry, she literally went insane. That's what they've been hinting at and building towards for ages. They definitely rushed it, but I think they at least managed to give her reason enough to go insane.
First, she finds out that someone has a stronger claim to the throne than her. She has spent her whole life up to this point being told that the throne is rightfully hers, and it's what she's been working towards since she stepped out of that fire with three dragons. As it happens, this person is her boyfriend and nephew, beloved and respected Northerner Jon Snow. If the people find out about his heritage, they will want to see him on the throne rather than her. She asks him not to tell anyone, but he 'betrays' her and tells his sisters, one of whom very much has it in for her and is also the head of one of the most powerful and respected houses. Sansa tells Tyrion, who then tells Varys, and they, at least in Dany's eyes, start scheming against her. So that's two more 'betrayals' from the people closest to her. In a last ditch effort to ensure that she's not denied her destiny, she tries to have Jon commit to rule by her side, but is rejected.
Add to that the fact that she's lost her closest friends, Jorah and Missandei, and lost another of her 'children', and it all became too much for her, so she finally snapped and succumbed to the Targaryen family insanity.
What annoyed me was that the Northern army went full "rape and murder" the moment Dany started her insanity, and that Jon literally did nothing other than feebly tell them to stop. I guess he also stabbed a dude and told a girl to run, but other than that he just walked around in shock, stabbed some Lannisters, then walked around some more, before calling a retreat. These soldiers are supposed to love and respect him, so you'd think they'd obey his order to stand down, and not just start massacring civilians for fun.
First, she finds out that someone has a stronger claim to the throne than her. She has spent her whole life up to this point being told that the throne is rightfully hers, and it's what she's been working towards since she stepped out of that fire with three dragons. As it happens, this person is her boyfriend and nephew, beloved and respected Northerner Jon Snow. If the people find out about his heritage, they will want to see him on the throne rather than her. She asks him not to tell anyone, but he 'betrays' her and tells his sisters, one of whom very much has it in for her and is also the head of one of the most powerful and respected houses. Sansa tells Tyrion, who then tells Varys, and they, at least in Dany's eyes, start scheming against her. So that's two more 'betrayals' from the people closest to her. In a last ditch effort to ensure that she's not denied her destiny, she tries to have Jon commit to rule by her side, but is rejected.
Add to that the fact that she's lost her closest friends, Jorah and Missandei, and lost another of her 'children', and it all became too much for her, so she finally snapped and succumbed to the Targaryen family insanity.
What annoyed me was that the Northern army went full "rape and murder" the moment Dany started her insanity, and that Jon literally did nothing other than feebly tell them to stop. I guess he also stabbed a dude and told a girl to run, but other than that he just walked around in shock, stabbed some Lannisters, then walked around some more, before calling a retreat. These soldiers are supposed to love and respect him, so you'd think they'd obey his order to stand down, and not just start massacring civilians for fun.
People act appallingly in war. The situation was also chaotic. I can accept this.
Again this season suffers because the creators are bored with it and just half assed it to get it done and dusted...which in turn falls on Martin's shoulders. Lazy cnut couldn't be arsed to finish a book.
Walter White was always very calculated though and never just evil for evil's sake. I don't remember him killing anyone 'innocent' or without logical reason anyway.
Did you see that edit of Rhaegal's death someone put up on reddit? If they'd done it like that in the show, Dany coming in like that and owning the entire Iron Fleet would have been more believable. But they didn't, so it wasn't.
It was still cool seeing Euron get owned, because he fecking sucked. Christ what a shitty fecking character, goddamn caricature of a villain.
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I guess I'm mostly annoyed at how fecking meek Jon appeared. He barely made a token effort to stop it, same with Davos (though to be fair to the latter, we barely get to see what he does, so for all we know he made more of an effort than Jon).
Then again, I've come to accepted that the Jon we're supposed to see and the Jon we actually see are entirely different people, with one being this amazing and inspiring warrior figure, and the other being an incredibly naive moron.
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“Mercy is our strength.”
“I am not here to be Queen of the ashes”
But foreshadowing...
Total cop out.
“I am not here to be Queen of the ashes”
But foreshadowing...
Total cop out.
It's hardly a cop out if it was planned all along (though we'll probably have to wait for the final book to know if it really was, which means we might never actually know). She's been shown to be ruthless before, and she's certainly grown more cold over the last couple of seasons. They just rushed her going completely bonkers. Think they, at the very least, needed two or three more episodes to actually make clear that Dany was starting to crumble mentally, because that's obviously what they've been trying to show us. They only showed a hint of it with her panicking a bit when Jon informed her of his parentage, then crammed the rest into this episode. They showed us enough for us to understand what was supposed to have happened, they just didn't build up to it actually happening in any way.
I don't believe that at all because if it was they wouldn't have totally butchered it as they have.
Ruthless and evil aren't exactly the same thing. Doesn't explain what she did at all. It was way out of character IMO.
I don't think she's shown any real signs of 'madness' which should have been shown if they were indeed going that route. I think she's shown the very opposite and shown over 7 seasons that she is willing to be 'good' when confronted with difficult choices. She has never once done anything evil. She's murdered people but never innocent people before.
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We already know that D&D can't write for shit, and that this season is rushed. So it's completely possible that they completely bungled actually building up to her going all super-Targaryen.
The lack of any build up to her insanity (and the general quality of the writing) means we can't say for certain that she's supposed to have become her father, but it seems fairly obvious that that's what they were going for. And in that case, 'out of character' doesn't really factor in, on account of her going insane. She not supposed to be the Dany that this would be 'out of character' for anymore.
Interesting, never crossed my mind.Just had it pointed out to me that Varys was trying to poison Dany at the start of the episode. I thought he was just worried that she was was too stressed to eat.
People acting as if it's geneva convention.
It's historical times. Castle siege, rape, pillage, raze, plunder is the norm back then.
It's historical times. Castle siege, rape, pillage, raze, plunder is the norm back then.
I just think it's a cop-out to 'assassinate' the character in the manner that they have out of what seems to be sheer laziness.
She's always been ruthless, sometimes arrogant, but she's always had some degree of integrity and has only killed people that deserved it.
It just really rubbed me the wrong way.
It's really gone to pieces now.
- Jamie. I didn't quite buy his arc being all it was made out to be (could have been done better) but it did exist, and it's closing - from being with Brianne to suddenly running off to Cersie to... be with her - just seemed pretty pointless.
- Was that how Cersie and Jamie die? That's it? I mean, they should be dead becuase the castle fell down upon them but it was lame as feck. Game of thrones is the master of zero pay off it seems. Lannistor Stark rivalry which was the best part of the show when it started really didn't mean much. White Walkers, mankind's greatest threat, lead to a weak and limp defeat.
- Dany's character development - what the actual feck? I never liked her character much but it was amusing how she went from this idealistic leader who free'd slaves and saved people, and at most showed no mercy to people who have sinned, or the odd time, those who have dissented. And now she's just like outright burning city's full of innocent people. Why? Because they killed that missenwhatshername! And pulled an angry face for 3 seconds in the last episode! So believable. Look, an anti-hero or a character 'breaking bad' only works when it's artfully done. And this wasn't. They haven't got the writing chops for it.
- That also wasn't a war, it was a walloping. I would have thought a few hiccups here and there would have been nice to add tension and a spanner in the works. But nah. It's all about a badly drone character development (degeneration?).
- Euron
Easily the most unfortunate thing about this show apart from Dorn. Did he die saying 'im the man who killed Jamie Lannistor'?? - Arya running around trying to hide and help people for 20 minutes - didn't see the point. Also what was up with the horse appearing out of nowhere?
- Tyrion's development arc from witty and intelligent into a total moron is complete.
It was completely out of character in any believable sense due to the poor writing. These things only make sense to the viewer when the writers, whether the arc was intended for the last 5 years or the last 10 years, manage to portray the transformation in a logical and believable manner. In this case it wasn't. Merely feeling sad, making an angry face and stating that I will rule with fear doesn't cut it I'm afraid.
Yeah Im guessing many folks would react a bit more mildly if they studied medieval history a bit...as in the non-fairy tale and not-everyone-lives-in-pretty-castles version. Case in point : visited a castle in the Mosel Valley of Germany last year where it was okay to murder your family if you wanted the other s spouse as long as you did it outside the castle walls. That was an actual written rule.
I missed that, when does that happen? I'll probably have to re watchJust had it pointed out to me that Varys was trying to poison Dany at the start of the episode. I thought he was just worried that she was was too stressed to eat.
What did everything thing if the Clegane fight? Thought it was done quite well.
Yeah under current standards its appalling, but back in those time periods history is littered with city sackings.
I don't mind her going batshit, it's the way the handled her transition.
I can understand her feelings though, in that snappy one moment in time in war time we all could have made the same frenzy induced trance of brutality. Anything than that is actually hard to believe. It's war where cersei chopped off a pow adviser of a queen, cersei trying to assasinate her, cersei backing off sending her troops in winterfell, broke the agreement, not to mention her whole family is being hunted down and butchered like a dog, killed 1 of her dragon, being ditched by jon, betrayed by sansa varys and tyrion, but yeah he should stay calm.
Although I've been a critic of the last two seasons I really enjoyed this one. Pretty intense and the whole dragon CGI for once didn't look fake.
So all along that Baratheon king was right. She should have been killed off the targaryean.
So all along that Baratheon king was right. She should have been killed off the targaryean.
But none of those things were the fault of the innocent people that were slaughtered. Wouldn't it have been more satisfying for her if she executed Cersei herself?
If you ignore the stupid details, the episode itself was entertaining.
Well... that's what happens when you have a wmd. For commoners with swords they'll kill a few, grow weary and calm down. 10 minutes with a fiery dragon... well...
Loved the episode. Don't get all the complaints about Dany's madness being sudden. There was always a hint she had a cruel streak and everything was slowly taken away from her. The key point was that she wanted to be loved and when Missandei died, Jon refused her advances, and she learned the people of Westeros have no loyalty to her, she felt she had no love in the form of friend, lover or queen -- and she just snapped. Surrender was disappointing for her because she just wanted an excuse to see things burn as in her mind, it was just punishment.
Cleganebowl was decent too though it could have been choreographed better. Big letdown was how minimally they have used Cersei and Jaime this season and how they die with a whimper. Lena Headey is a fantastic actress and yet all she got to do this season was smirk. Also, great job trashing the Valonqar prophecy.
Getting sick of "Aryaah the Killaah" being shoved down our throats. I was hoping they would have the balls to kill her off as that would leave one Stark (Sansa), one Baratheon (Gendry), one Lannister (Tyrion) and one Targaryen (Jon) alive. I seriously think it should be Jon who kills Dany, but Melisandre seemed to hint Arya will do it anyway. Still chance Arya could die.
Assume both Bronn and Yara will come to Jon's help in the final episode. They have been fair fecking irrelevant so far.
Speaking of Jon, Kit is still wandering around in battles with one expression on his face and not a whole lot of useful. Atleast Emilia Clarke, despite being a limited actress, has improved somewhat to become passable, but doesn't really help that Jon is such a gormless tit at the moment. I reckon he will kill Grey Worm atleast in the next episode.
Also think Jon will use dragonfire or something to melt the Iron Throne forever, as probably he feels it is a symbol of bloodshed.
Lastly, Varys.
Despite the flaws, 8/10 episode. Ultimately entertaining to see Dany break bad, that's all that matters.
Cleganebowl was decent too though it could have been choreographed better. Big letdown was how minimally they have used Cersei and Jaime this season and how they die with a whimper. Lena Headey is a fantastic actress and yet all she got to do this season was smirk. Also, great job trashing the Valonqar prophecy.
Getting sick of "Aryaah the Killaah" being shoved down our throats. I was hoping they would have the balls to kill her off as that would leave one Stark (Sansa), one Baratheon (Gendry), one Lannister (Tyrion) and one Targaryen (Jon) alive. I seriously think it should be Jon who kills Dany, but Melisandre seemed to hint Arya will do it anyway. Still chance Arya could die.
Assume both Bronn and Yara will come to Jon's help in the final episode. They have been fair fecking irrelevant so far.
Speaking of Jon, Kit is still wandering around in battles with one expression on his face and not a whole lot of useful. Atleast Emilia Clarke, despite being a limited actress, has improved somewhat to become passable, but doesn't really help that Jon is such a gormless tit at the moment. I reckon he will kill Grey Worm atleast in the next episode.
Also think Jon will use dragonfire or something to melt the Iron Throne forever, as probably he feels it is a symbol of bloodshed.
Lastly, Varys.
Despite the flaws, 8/10 episode. Ultimately entertaining to see Dany break bad, that's all that matters.
Exactly. I've been enjoying the episodes plenty once I stopped expecting anything to make sense. It's all about the spectacle.
Holy cow, you're right. Missed that as I was getting settled in to watch.Just had it pointed out to me that Varys was trying to poison Dany at the start of the episode. I thought he was just worried that she was was too stressed to eat.
Nice ending for the Hound that he got to push his brother into the flames.
Maybe Tyrion will walk through the rubble in the next episode, finding Cersei crushed, but alive, crying over Jaime. In sympathy he then strangles her, to let her out of her misery.
That annoyed me too. Nobody gave a shit about him.
Well done to the Three Eyed Raven for yet again doing absolutely jack shit while millions of innocent people died. Good job, my dude.
dont you just hate it when fake friends try to steal your throne
Unless you read spoilers (I don't), how do you know Cersei is dead? I never saw her lifeless body, just dust and debris.
Come on, clear as day they have no intention to bring her back. Focus is now on Dany as the main villain, Cersei's done.