'Tactical' fouls

[Keeps It tidy]

That Jorginho foul on Sterling late was a great example of that.

 

[duffer]

That Jorginho foul on Sterling late was a great example of that.

Yep. I hate those fouls so much. Obviously helped us today but I think if they are clear as that one then they should be a straight red.

 

[padr81]

Because we're really naive at them. If you hack away at someone who is already on the break then you get booked. If you commit a foul immediately after possession is lost, but before the counter is started, allowing your defenders to get back, that has more leeway.

Not only this but in many cases I'll use City as an example, its immediate from City/Liverpool because of high press so it looks a lot more like a player going for the ball. Take Fernandinho today (which he ironically got booked for) and Jorginho (I think) on a breaking Sterling. Both were a player taking out an opposition player but Jorginho's was 1000 times more clear cut and a much easier call for the ref.

They were essentially the same foul.

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Not only this but in many cases I'll use City as an example, its immediate from City/Liverpool because of high press so it looks a lot more like a player going for the ball. Take Fernandinho today (which he ironically got booked for) and Jorginho (I think) on a breaking Sterling. Both were a player taking out an opposition player but Jorginho's was 1000 times more clear cut and a much easier call for the ref.

They were essentially the same foul.

I respect your views @padr81 as you’re very level headed about it.
Would you be annoyed if every single team in the EPL employed the early foul tactic?
It’s so cynical and anti entertainment!

 

[padr81]

I respect your views @padr81 as you’re very level headed about it.
Would you be annoyed if every single team in the EPL employed the early foul tactic?
It’s so cynical and anti entertainment!

Its not nice 100%, and completely kills counter attacking football.

The issue is its so hard for refs to call it (as a yellow) because its hard to know how blatant teams like City, Spurs and Liverpool are. Its clearly instructed (hell City are on video, telling David Silva to make the foul). Its completely anti-entertainment and should be enforced better, its just so hard to call, I feel sorry for ref's in this one situation.

 

[Ralaks]

10 min sin-bin punishment would be an answer imo

 

[padr81]

10 min sin-bin punishment would be an answer imo

I don't think you can enforce something like that because the issue is the ref deciding if its intentional and its a hard call when not blatant.

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Its not nice 100%, and completely kills counter attacking football.

The issue is its so hard for refs to call it (as a yellow) because its hard to know how blatant teams like City, Spurs and Liverpool are. Its clearly instructed (hell City are on video, telling David Silva to make the foul). Its completely anti-entertainment and should be enforced better, its just so hard to call, I feel sorry for ref's in this one situation.

Thanks for your honesty again.
It is totally a referee and rules problem.
Teams are coached to take the rules as far as they can, so it’s up to the authorataaays to implement better guidelines.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Tactical fouls must be stamped out.
We saw again today, how Liverpool were allowed to get away with it.
Is it any surprise that the top 2 in the EPL are allowed to get away with it every game?
It’s a horrible thing to watch and infuriating.
That’s not entertainment - we will attack you, but if you try to, you’ll get fouled.
It must be stamped out now, or it’ll become the norm.

The annoying thing is FIFA rule 12 is very clear on the act. Yet no ref ever implements it against the practice, that breaks it wantonly

 

[Bola]

It is spoiling the game.

The rules are probably there and it's down to the officials to be better educated and directed to enforce. If its a genuine attempt at the ball, I don't have as much of a problem, but most of these fouls are pushes, barges and trips. The refs need that additional training in spotting and judging the offence correctly.

While they are at it, the refs should start penalising the little kick away/ grab the ball and hold it after a foul/ out of play ball, in addition to players stanfing on the ball and not retreating. Both tactics slow down the play and prevent attacking counters

A few yellows and then some sending off will do wonders in changing behavior

 

[kouroux]

It is spoiling the game.

The rules are probably there and it's down to the officials to be better educated and directed to enforce. If its a genuine attempt at the ball, I don't have as much of a problem, but most of these fouls are pushes, barges and trips. The refs need that additional training in spotting and judging the offence correctly.

While they are at it, the refs should start penalising the little kick away/ grab the ball and hold it after a foul/ out of play ball, in addition to players stanfing on the ball and not retreating. Both tactics slow down the play and prevent attacking counters

A few yellows and then some sending off will do wonders in changing behavior

I couldn't agree more with your last paragraph. IIRC, refs used to do it but they somehow stopped ?

 

[Bola]

I couldn't agree more with your last paragraph. IIRC, refs used to do it but they somehow stopped ?

Similar happened with the intentional grappling on corners, it was sytingku enforced at the start of the season and then peterred out.

I'm not sure what the mentality of the officials is with regards to these 'get tough' initiatives. Perhaps they don't want to able seen as spiking ganes with excessive cards and breaking the flow with longer stoppages. Personally, I think they need to be persistent and after a fee rounds of games, the message will stick with players and coaches, allowing matches to return to an even faster flow

I think this all points to the general governance of officials. They seem to be a law upon themselves and need greater accountability and direction, for the wider benefit of the game

 

[kouroux]

Similar happened with the intentional grappling on corners, it was sytingku enforced at the start of the season and then peterred out.

I'm not sure what the mentality of the officials is with regards to these 'get tough' initiatives. Perhaps they don't want to able seen as spiking ganes with excessive cards and breaking the flow with longer stoppages. Personally, I think they need to be persistent and after a fee rounds of games, the message will stick with players and coaches, allowing matches to return to an even faster flow

I think this all points to the general governance of officials. They seem to be a law upon themselves and need greater accountability and direction, for the soldier benefit of the game

Players are like children, they'll keep testing you and if you don't act they'll never stop.

 

[Bola]

Players are like children, they'll keep testing you and if you don't act they'll never stop.

As a fairly new father, i find that a very accurate anology!

 

[Denis' cuff]

I couldn't agree more with your last paragraph. IIRC, refs used to do it but they somehow stopped ?

Dennis Irwin, sent off by Elleray (surprise) at Anfield (surprise)

There’s no escaping the fact that it is difficult when there are fine lines but late on, a Liverpool player just ran into Lukaku, fell over and was given a foul. What was Lukaku supposed to do? Vanish into thin air. Sometimes fouls are given purely because a player falls over, when it is clearly the coming together of two players going for the same ball. Then you get the likes of Henderson and Milner consistently getting away with fouls with little, belated or no punishment.

 

[kouroux]

As a fairly new father, i find that a very accurate anology!

I hope you have your cards at the ready

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Rudiger perfected this yesterday where he had two 100% yellow challenges within one action, but of course only got one. Not too sure what prevented Moss to give him two in succession though. Saw it already happen in some WC or Euro qualifiers, think it was Northern Ireland.

 

[hellohello]

Use video to force all players to stay in the same place as when the foul was committed. Would be hilarious.

 

[Anustart89]

Similar happened with the intentional grappling on corners, it was sytingku enforced at the start of the season and then peterred out.

Those directives are such a joke. The problem is that there's always this 'new' thing that they're going to enforce extra strongly, so they start dishing out yellow cards left, right and centre, but it's completely nullified because the next time they commit a cardable offence the referees just ignore it.

For example; a few years ago they were under instructions to be extra hard on dissent, so in the beginning of the season we had 3-4 yellow cards for dissent in pretty much half the games. In one game, Diego Costa was booked early on for dissent, but was then let off without a yellow card for the tackle below (I recommend that you turn off the sound). So in essence, the instructions made no difference because they just got booked for something they wouldn't have been booked for previously, but in exchange they didn't get booked for something they would've been booked for.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

It is spoiling the game.

The rules are probably there and it's down to the officials to be better educated and directed to enforce. If its a genuine attempt at the ball, I don't have as much of a problem, but most of these fouls are pushes, barges and trips. The refs need that additional training in spotting and judging the offence correctly.

While they are at it, the refs should start penalising the little kick away/ grab the ball and hold it after a foul/ out of play ball, in addition to players stanfing on the ball and not retreating. Both tactics slow down the play and prevent attacking counters

A few yellows and then some sending off will do wonders in changing behavior

To be honest
All they need is the will. Not better education. That law is cleat cut. They just never implement it. The sane way murder has gone on for years in the 18 yard box during corners.

I will forever remember a Chelsea game at OT in LVGs first season during which Smalling and Rojo both wrestled down the opposing Chelsea cbs to the floot in our 18 yard box and the ref waved play on like nothing happened..
..

 

[Adisa]

You have to admire it. Wish we would do it as well. There are no downsides.

 

[cyberman]

We try it and get same posters who are praising it claiming Herrera was right to see red v Chelsea?

 

[Sandikan]

We try it and get same posters who are praising it claiming Herrera was right to see red v Chelsea?

I literally was about to post that the main downside of tactical fouling, or the younger brother of sharing fouls around, is inevitably especially in away games, the crowd will get super animated and pressure the ref into clamping down on someone.

And like your example, it can be a soft one.

 

[M16Red]

I see that City have 8 fouls at half time, any technical? Not watching the game..

Thought the rules changed, yellow card for technical fouls or are city still exempt.

 

[SirAF]

You have to admire it. Wish we would do it as well. There are no downsides.

Agreed.

 

[SaintMuppet]

Whilst I’m against them in principle I am more against sanitizing the game too much.

If it’s a red tackle it’s a red, if it’s yellow it’s yellow. Tactical or not need not really matter.

They do piss me off as they often disrupt a good move or a potential chance but then Lukaku managed that all on his ownsome. In the old Sat/Sun league days a foul like that often started a fight, amusingly not always on the pitch.

If a player does it twice he is off, probably enough on balance.

 

[Ace of Spades]

I see that City have 8 fouls at half time, any technical? Not watching the game..

Thought the rules changed, yellow card for technical fouls or are city still exempt.

Pep or fouls.

 

[ivaldo]

I see that City have 8 fouls at half time, any technical? Not watching the game..

Thought the rules changed, yellow card for technical fouls or are city still exempt.

Yup. Rodri beaten in the middle of the park so he pulls the skirt and wraps his arms around the player. No yellow, not even a ticking off.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

City getting away with counter attack stopping tactical fouls... Well the PL must be back.

 

[arthurka]

City getting away with counter attack stopping tactical fouls... Well the PL must be back.

Funny thing is that West Ham did it a few times and got booked.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Yup. Rodri beaten in the middle of the park so he pulls the skirt and wraps his arms around the player. No yellow, not even a ticking off.

Pulling someones skirt has to be a card?

 

[ivaldo]

Pulling someones skirt has to be a card?

When you make no attempt to play the ball? Yes, absolutely.

 

[Bestofthebest]

Pulling someones skirt has to be a card?

Yes, it's in the rules. Yellow for pulling the skirt red for pulling the knickers.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

When you make no attempt to play the ball? Yes, absolutely.

Whoosh.....

Yes, it's in the rules. Yellow for pulling the skirt red for pulling the knickers.

Two match ban for a wedgy.

 

[ivaldo]

Whoosh.....

Oh I see, I put skirt instead of shirt. Very good.

 

[adexkola]

Whilst I’m against them in principle I am more against sanitizing the game too much.

If it’s a red tackle it’s a red, if it’s yellow it’s yellow. Tactical or not need not really matter.

They do piss me off as they often disrupt a good move or a potential chance but then Lukaku managed that all on his ownsome. In the old Sat/Sun league days a foul like that often started a fight, amusingly not always on the pitch.

If a player does it twice he is off, probably enough on balance.

This is where I stand as well.

 

[Fully Fledged]

It's as much cheating as diving is and should get a yellow card. The problem is that refs are not consistent with giving cards for it the same way they are not consistent in giving yellow cards for diving.

 

[Scroto Baggins]

Funny thing is that West Ham did it a few times and got booked.

It's the woeful officiating from Dean in that City game. At half time City had committed 8 fouls to Hammers 1. After half time the first two fouls Hammers committed were rewarded with yellow cards. City went through a whole half with constant fouls, no reaction.

This is the sort of stuff that needs to be addressed, Im not buying this 'it's my first time', when 90% of the team are doing it. If the ref sees a couple tactical fouls happen he should pull the captain aside and say 'no more niggling fouls, this is fair warning, the next time I see one, regardless of which player it is, its a yellow.'

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Oh I see, I put skirt instead of shirt. Very good.

It wasn't you who put it originally. I just replied and you replied.... "skirts" everywhere.

 

[adexkola]

It's the woeful officiating from Dean in that City game. At half time City had committed 8 fouls to Hammers 1. After half time the first two fouls Hammers committed were rewarded with yellow cards. City went through a whole half with constant fouls, no reaction.

This is the sort of stuff that needs to be addressed, Im not buying this 'it's my first time', when 90% of the team are doing it. If the ref sees a couple tactical fouls happen he should pull the captain aside and say 'no more niggling fouls, this is fair warning, the next time I see one, regardless of which player it is, its a yellow.'

You can't give a yellow based on a previous aggregation of fouls committed by someone else. If the foul is yellow card worthy, it should be punished with a yellow card.