You have to admit, some of the revisionism on here about LvG is fecking hilarious. It’s like he didn’t serve up the worst football ever seen at OT, and I include that clown Mourinho in my statement. I mean, the football was beyond awful.
We aren't great, but let's not pretend....
- Thread starter King7Eric
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Chelsea have looked god awful this season. Not really any sort of barometer.
You're very true. The United fanbase and as a result, the caf has been infested with the instant gratification crowd. Every time we lose or draw, or heck even win a game, there will be calls to sack Ole, sell off half the squad, calls of bottom 10 finish and so on. It's very sad to see how the caf has gone downhill so steeply.
Thanks for clarifying!
I'll wager a lot of the posters on here have only known us to be winning leagues all the time. In fact it's probably why they started supporting United. They don't know how to handle the situation we are in right now
In my opinion, you guys are the same level of last year so far, stop panicking, focus, step by step, I think Manchester United lost their strongest weapon after SAF retired, and I am talking about stability.
From the most stable club in the world to a circus of problems to be honest.
Appoint a manager, stick by him, rebuild.
Is the right one Ole? I dont know, that is not my job.
From the most stable club in the world to a circus of problems to be honest.
Appoint a manager, stick by him, rebuild.
Is the right one Ole? I dont know, that is not my job.
Tottenham had 2 shots on target today. At home against Newcastle. It happens
It's not like we are lacking excuses now despite having a full strength team do we? From what I see there are plenty of excuses knocking around - the ref, VAR, luck, etc?
Is a missed penalty a worthy excuse of unable to beat Palace, at home?
Unless you are 6 years old or over 45 United have always won titles during one's life. I, for one, won't lower my standards to mid table level just because Fergie left.
Those who are 'moaning' want the club to return to its best. Don't you want that?
Obviously, but there comes a point when fans can end up being counter-productive and we've long since passed that point.
Your post is a perfect example. Mid-table you say. Seriously. We clearly aren't going to finish mid table and we are obviously a lot better than that, but you say it anyway. All your having to do is accept us being somewhere between 3rd and 6th.
We are rebuilding this team. Accept it. Deal with it. You can do that and still enjoy the football without having to "lower your standards"
You seem to be confident that we are going to finish 3-6, have to say I admire that..
And if we do finish mid table then what? Rebuild again? 2-3 more years down the drain because we couldn't see it in advance?
We have been rebuilding without a clear plan for 6 years now. Isn't losing 2-3 years counter productive as well?
After Moyes was appointed it was pretty obvious how it will end. Yet we needed validation. We're doing the same with Ole.
I dont get personal or insult people on here, but mate theres an awful lot of your post thats just...wrong.
We won't finish mid table. Obviously. Stop being a drama queen.
Don't blame Ole for us not having a plan for 5 years. He isn't responsible for that, and he quite clearly has a plan. If he fails then he fails, we go again. We kissed a lot of frogs before Ferguson came along too.
Moyes got less than a full season so your point there makes no sense at all.
It doesn't happen as often for them as it has for us.
Worth pointing out that Understat have us down as:
Best xGA against in the league
Second best xPTS in the league
Third best xG in the league
We’re average goalkeeping and average finishing, both for and against us, from being a decent side on the evidence so far. I’m doubtful that Ole is the right man for us long term, but general performances have been acceptable so far. We just need to take our chances and have De Gea be average and we’d have had a strong start.
Best xGA against in the league
Second best xPTS in the league
Third best xG in the league
We’re average goalkeeping and average finishing, both for and against us, from being a decent side on the evidence so far. I’m doubtful that Ole is the right man for us long term, but general performances have been acceptable so far. We just need to take our chances and have De Gea be average and we’d have had a strong start.
This is true. They are a lot further along the path than our team is. I mention it purely to make the point that it happens to more established teams than our own.
To me ineptitude and no action at all when there are problems is the worst action of all. You seem positive we will finish top 6 or be top six under his helm - I guess we can revisit this thread when all is set and done
Yes let's do that. Won't it be wonderful for you to see us finish 9th and be proven right?To me ineptitude and no action at all when there are problems is the worst action of all. You seem positive we will finish top 6 or be top six under his helm - I guess we can revisit this thread when all is set and done
Ladies and gentleman, meet the modern Manchester United 'supporter'.
wasn't this all the rage last season? where are people talking about this now as we are doing well in those terms?
people would rather win an argument than be happy
Doesn't fit the narrative so nobody will comment on it
Our 19-20 season (judging by the summer transfer window) is built around two ideas:
a) Pogba-Rashford-Martial have enough quality and PL experience to create goals and Lukaku is gone so he won't drag us down anymore.
b) the two new CB and RB (Maguire, Bissaka) will drastically increase our defense.
Those two ideas failed big time vs Palace. Martial and Rashord are unpredictable at best and unreliable at worst, we are missing penalties, and we still make individual mistakes in defense (Lindelof, DeGea).
Conclusion: we needed a new CF and/or a RFW, and at least another CB this summer.
My only doubts are: will Ole be still around by Jan? Will we actually buy an attacker in Jan?
a) Pogba-Rashford-Martial have enough quality and PL experience to create goals and Lukaku is gone so he won't drag us down anymore.
b) the two new CB and RB (Maguire, Bissaka) will drastically increase our defense.
Those two ideas failed big time vs Palace. Martial and Rashord are unpredictable at best and unreliable at worst, we are missing penalties, and we still make individual mistakes in defense (Lindelof, DeGea).
Conclusion: we needed a new CF and/or a RFW, and at least another CB this summer.
My only doubts are: will Ole be still around by Jan? Will we actually buy an attacker in Jan?
Depressing isn't it?
If that happens we will still be 9th. My or your opinion doesn't change that does it? Will you be happy that the club did nothing to not let that happen?
Is do nothing, clap till the 80th minute and hop on the bus, rinse and repeat make it the old true red?
Man, why even watch or care?To me ineptitude and no action at all when there are problems is the worst action of all. You seem positive we will finish top 6 or be top six under his helm - I guess we can revisit this thread when all is set and done
Because I do care and because I do want us to be successful again, along with the others of the "moan" brigade
We are being fleeced and mismanaged by our owners. 6 year rebuild has already been going on. There are serious problems with our club decision making, structure and culture from top to bottom.
Does how the club is ran make you happy? Don't you want to change it? I'm sorry but if you think burying your head in the sand and expect a miracle to happen and all the issues to go away rarely brings fruition.
If we can't improve on Woodward as he's part of the management at least we can hope we can bring someone who will improve us on for the next most important position at the club on the footballing side.
It's easy to go all out when everything is said and done and we are at the point of no return, also bit pointless.
We arent great but...................ffs we have won 3 of the last 16 games, where even is the discussion our run of form is absolutely appalling and a couple more losses and the heads and attitude will drop and we will be back in the free fall of last season.
Seriously cut the, its phases, the manager needs times, there is a blueprint and structure to the way we are trying to play. What planet are people on, this side needed several new additions in THIS LAST window, not over 3 bloody years, its also could have done with another 2/3 at least being shown the door.
We are close to being in turmoil and freefall, there is fully good reason for doom and gloom. I said this season at the very best we could actually be challenging towards seconds and at our worst we could be 7-8th. I dont actually think we have been awful, but I disagree we have been unlucky bar maybe the last game, think the first two games we were actually lucky. There is still so little creativity and organisation and bite defensively in our midfield that I think we could fall apart like last season though not to the same degree and be int he worst position we have finished in decades, of course there is reason for doom and gloom
Seriously cut the, its phases, the manager needs times, there is a blueprint and structure to the way we are trying to play. What planet are people on, this side needed several new additions in THIS LAST window, not over 3 bloody years, its also could have done with another 2/3 at least being shown the door.
We are close to being in turmoil and freefall, there is fully good reason for doom and gloom. I said this season at the very best we could actually be challenging towards seconds and at our worst we could be 7-8th. I dont actually think we have been awful, but I disagree we have been unlucky bar maybe the last game, think the first two games we were actually lucky. There is still so little creativity and organisation and bite defensively in our midfield that I think we could fall apart like last season though not to the same degree and be int he worst position we have finished in decades, of course there is reason for doom and gloom
I hope English isn't your first language because if it is, I'd be concerned...
We all know, you and those others care. You won't be here if you didn't. But its seems your care is just hinged on instant success, but not the steps that it takes going from the failures of last 6 years to a successful team. I was also very unhappy during Moyes, LVG and Mournho's last two years, as I did not see United take any steps towards improvement. We just made the same mistakes over and over. Many here have been saying and have said this transfer window as well to buy all the shiny things under the sun, why can't we buy players like Real and Barcelona, why can't we spend like City. But the thing is we have tried to do that last six years and failed miserably. This is the first time we have appointed a manager for the long term that fits our profile, and doing business in the transfer market that points to a long term plan. Of course, you could point to why we didn't buy this and that, but we could have been making the same mistakes as before (buying Dybala who didn't want to come by giving super massive contract, going for Bale etc as we might have done before) by buying in a panic. This gives me a lot of hope. And I think with enough time Ole will build a successful team.Because I do care and because I do want us to be successful again, along with the others of the "moan" brigade
I am not speaking with my head in the sand and I don't believe in miracles. I just understand this is not a job that would have been fixed by a single transfer window or a single season. Now we are at least seeing a direction, few steps of improvement, and not repeating some of the mistakes. That is why I don't moan for the lack of instant gratification cause I can see we are moving in the right direction.
I don't think our players are as bad as what people in here saying. Spurs lost against Newcastle United under Steve Bruce as manager at home. That's probably worse than losing against Palace under Hodgson.
To me the result against Palace was because we didn't well prepared that game in the training. There are ways to breakthrough the bus especially playing at home we should be in advantage & I believe our coaches didn't well prepare for the Palace game. It's man management & the coaches fault for the most part.
Ole knows this and we will bounce back against Southampton.
To me the result against Palace was because we didn't well prepared that game in the training. There are ways to breakthrough the bus especially playing at home we should be in advantage & I believe our coaches didn't well prepare for the Palace game. It's man management & the coaches fault for the most part.
Ole knows this and we will bounce back against Southampton.
Agree with everything you just said.
What's more, we're by far the youngest team in the league, with even Lampard's Chelsea team which everyone makes excuses for, having an older average age. As a result, there will be ups and downs. And it's only par for the course that we'll have results like Saturday. The key is how we bounce back from those games.
We score two penalties and we are top of the league.
I’m really happy with how we’ve played this year,
I’m really happy with how we’ve played this year,
Since 2015 Liverpool have finished 6th, 8th, 4th, 4th, 2nd. Getting where they are today took a long time. We tried the instant success route with Jose, which failed and it ultimately left us in a much worse state than we were before he was hired. The rebuild will take as long as it takes, but following the summer its clear that Ole needs more than one window to build the squad that he wants.
Everyone wants us to get back on top, but i firmly believe if we sack Ole now all we do is postpone this rebuild even more. We have a very young squad and the players seems too be genuinely happy. Thats a massive step forward from the toxic atmosphere around the club under Jose, despite the results so far being disappointing
Agreed.
So far I'm really happy with this "new" team and the direction we're going. Rome was not built in a day and we've made a few correct brick.
Frankly despite the result imho our two recent matches are better than the 1st one. With a bit luck (which we did not have any) and normal ref we should won these two matches with ease.
At least I'm now enjoying the energy, the never say die and we wanna win not just draw attitude which I haven't seen for years.
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Nah, I don't want instant success mate as I don't see us getting it regardless who is in charge. However I need, like many others, a project to believe in and a leader to put it into an action right away.
This is where we differ is whether we believe Ole can build a successful team as he has no previous track record. It's a bit like expecting Greenwood to step up and carry our attack this season - no foundation based on that belief.
Giving him a chance is missing on potential right candidates who can truly pull it out. Some ask who that right man is - well not acting up we miss out on all top managers that would be available and the timing is of utmost importance.
It's not about buying shiny players and shiny things but as I said to give the time to the right man for the job. Heck I'd give ten Hag that time, despite only coming out of a just one successful season, but this is because you can see a plan straight away.
All fair points of course and we can agree to disagree. You see us moving into a right direction - I just don't, because you believe in the project that is supposed to take place. Whilst on the other hand I believe we don't fix our core problem with appointing Ole prematurely (appointing a DoF) and also that he's not the right man to get behind. Just the love for the club doesn't cut it at this level.
As I've said I'm not against a lengthy process much like Liverpool under Klopp, but with him you can see the signs straight away. Appointing Ole as your leader feels like the son gets elected as head of the company based not on merit but on family ties...
Again read up. I have no problems giving the manager time, but it has to be the right candidate so we don't miss out on that candidate experimenting with rookies.
So far nothing changed. I just don't see the "massive" step forward. We still play the same tumescent stuff, we are still tactically naive, we still give contracts to players that shouldn't be at the team..
We have brought in Maguire(Jose wanted him last year and he should have been here last year), AWB and James - not a massive difference of what we had last year. The toxic atmosphere would have been under pretty much everybody, considering we would have a new manager.
If we see the reality though we have our two best players - DDG and Pogba not wanting to be here, bunch of kids that everyone has huge expectations on, ridiculously thin squad and tactically inept manager who is driving us in the worst form in the last century.
I'm on the other way around - giving Ole a chance will postpone this rebuild even more. We will miss out on some talented managers with modern approach and when the inevitable sacking comes we will be back to square one and everyone will be saying there is no option.
Spot on!
Yeah that's a good point. Palace were very cynical and killed most of the attacks by fouling the players. We got penalty, should have got one more, got free kicks at the edge of the box multiple times. We should have done lot better with those chances.
Look at Tot yesterday I couldn't recall them having any free kick near the box not saying penalty. We're showing good signs, at the very least now I can look forward to the next match with hope.
Those that are saying to stop playing Pogba deep are wrong, hes been in good form so far this season. Give Andreas a shot alongside Pogba and McT, Alternatively throw Gomes into the Lions den, but its sink or swim.