So what the feck does Corbyn want? Now he says that May's deal was better. Does he refuse just to refuse or what?
God, I hope the EU answers "feck off without a deal then" if it's blocked.
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God, I hope the EU answers "feck off without a deal then" if it's blocked.
Democracy here is not representing the will of the people though is it. The DUP have no majority in their own area. The people don't want the whole thing to fall down on the whim of a party most had never heard of until 2 years ago.
It's politicians looking out for self interest which is why there is a high chance any deal gets voted down. They're not interested in what's best for the people, they're interested in what's best for their careers.
Corbyn wants to use BrExit as a mechanic to become PM. Just as BJ wants to use BrExit remain PM.
Doubt either really gives a fcuk about BrExit itself.
Been saying this since he first came to prominence. He has no interest in governing or being constructive in any way. He made his name on being a thorn in the establishment's side and that's what he continues to do. If he wasn't the Labour leader he'd be out climbing on train carriages today.
So now some guy on the BBC is saying Boris might not even bring this before parliament on Saturday unless he was sure he could win.
WTF has been the Point of it all then?
WTF has been the Point of it all then?
In the current construct of parliament, DUP has enough influence to stop things which affect them which they dont like.
Regardless of your view on motivations of politicians, I’d say right now and on this issue, they have the right amount of influence.
That would be the clincher. MPs of all parties would be presented with the choice of deal or no deal.
Farage also coming out against BJs deal.
‘It’s simply not BrExit. Frankly I think it should be rejected’.
‘Benn act stops us leaving on 31st. Would prefer a GE over this deal’
‘It’s simply not BrExit. Frankly I think it should be rejected’.
‘Benn act stops us leaving on 31st. Would prefer a GE over this deal’
Parliament needs to get the wheels moving on a 2nd ref asap. I've heard it could take 6 months or more to be held. So even if the issue of what the question/s will be is not decided, there's a pretty good chance now that we're going to end up needing a referendum to sort this mess.
I'm starting to wonder if Farage is actually wanting a GE more than brexit now.
Lets say this goes through and Stormont votes every four years on whether to remain aligned to the EU rules or to drop them.
In the case that they voted to drop them, arent we then just back to the same Argument about a hard border?
In the case that they voted to drop them, arent we then just back to the same Argument about a hard border?
As I understand it, yes.
I guess that the decision at least sits with the people of NI. Which seems fair. I'm not sure it will do much to help harmony though.
I think he does. Because if he has MPs in parliament, which he will if we don’t leave by 31st, he can people influence the hard BrExit he desires.I'm starting to wonder if Farage is actually wanting a GE more than brexit now.
But contravenes the GFA?
As I understand it, there is a two year 'cooling off period' built in after they vote to drop the EU rules, but yes, after that it's the same dilemma around the border as now.
The EU/Ireland is basically taking a calculated risk that there will always be a majority in Stormont to stay aligned to EU rules.
How do you take refuse just to refuse at him pointing out Mays deal is better? Every economic analysis shows Boris deal is twice as damaging.
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn criticised the deal, saying: “From what we know, it seems the prime minister has negotiated an even worse deal than Theresa May’s, which was overwhelmingly rejected.
“These proposals risk triggering a race to the bottom on rights and protections: putting food safety at risk, cutting environmental standards and workers’ rights, and opening up our NHS to a takeover by US private corporations.
“This sell-out deal won’t bring the country together and should be rejected. The best way to get Brexit sorted is to give the people the final say in a public vote.”
“These proposals risk triggering a race to the bottom on rights and protections: putting food safety at risk, cutting environmental standards and workers’ rights, and opening up our NHS to a takeover by US private corporations.
“This sell-out deal won’t bring the country together and should be rejected. The best way to get Brexit sorted is to give the people the final say in a public vote.”
Breaking: The UK and the EU have AGREED upon a DEAL to blame the DUP
That's all this is really. A big game of hot potato, the EU are delighted to avoid taking the blame for no-deal Brexit, and Boris gets to say he got his deal, gets a People vs. Parliament GE, and they all pin the blame on the DUP. Wouldn't even be surprised if the EU reject an extension--either way, I expect the Govt. to swiftly launch a legal challenge to the Benn Act, probably upon the basis that EU Law is superior to it, and thus without any repeals, the Deadline stands. It's still heading towards No Deal.
That's all this is really. A big game of hot potato, the EU are delighted to avoid taking the blame for no-deal Brexit, and Boris gets to say he got his deal, gets a People vs. Parliament GE, and they all pin the blame on the DUP. Wouldn't even be surprised if the EU reject an extension--either way, I expect the Govt. to swiftly launch a legal challenge to the Benn Act, probably upon the basis that EU Law is superior to it, and thus without any repeals, the Deadline stands. It's still heading towards No Deal.
Interesting to see what happens now - without DUP's support will ERG support the deal (I suspect they will) and will it get through Parliament? (no idea)
As Corbyn says, he wants exactly the same benefits of being in the EU without being in the EU. I.e. he will never approve any deal unless it is his own which would not be possible to negotiate.
Well
Jacob Rees-Mogg is speaking now and is very much behind it, and just called on his group to back it, and the DUP to back it. All pressure applied to DUP.
If Corbyn whips his MP's few will vote for the deal. Even if most of those Boris kicked out vote for his deal along with all Brexiteers and the DUP, won't he still be a few votes short?
Yep. Can’t see how he gets the numbers without Labour, regardless of what DUP decides.
Gove saying that vote on Super BrExit Saturday will take place, so long as parliament passes that request in vote in an hours time.
Still fudging about benn act as he claims we will leave on 31st. ‘We’ll see what happens in next few days’
Still fudging about benn act as he claims we will leave on 31st. ‘We’ll see what happens in next few days’
Imagine one of the biggest, most complex and potentially damaging deals ever resting on the hands of the fecking DUP.
Why not? Northern Irish have feelings too!
They wont give a feck. Whats going to happen? People in England may be upset at them. So what they will say. It wont impact them at the Ballot box and if the deal doesnt pass its most likely going to be a no deal which they dont give a feck about either.
The history of the DUP tells us they will dig in regardless of pressure.
Not sure that's true. My sister-in-law lives in a traditionally strong Labour constituency (didn't count the labour vote just weighed it!) it voted overwhelmingly to Leave and she seems convinced her MP expects to get deselected and so whipping will not change his mind. There may be a quite a few Labour MPs in this position, both Leave and Remain and all are likely to ignore any whip Corbyn applies.
Not enough of them most likely.
Boris got the deal he wanted on his terms
He got the deal the EU wanted and May turned down.
He got rid of the backstop and there is nothing to stop the single market from being flooded by non EU stuff apart from the UK's good will
Not really, this deal is the original deal proposed by the EU and Ireland.
He got rid of the backstop in GB by making it pretty much permanent in NI which was even more than what the EU offered May initially. Putting the level playing field stuff into the political declaration just means they will have to satisfy the EU before agreeing an FTA so how that translates to GB being able to flood the EU with non EU stuff is a bit of a mystery.
I must admit to be enjoying watching the DUP get run over by a bus.
It's east to forget that (according to the FT) this deal will still reduce by UK's economy (-7%) by almost as much as no deal (-8.5%) so all in all, it's still absolutely terrible.
Political declarations mean nothing. Malta/Italy added a sentence in the Lisbon treaty regarding immigration and its worth less then then the ink it's been written with
Let me repeat my question. What is stopping the UK from flooding the single market with non EU complaint products through NI?
Has the DUP been abandoned by No 10? Lisa O'Carroll; Guardian
A view in Northern Ireland is that the DUP have been totally shafted, or “run over by a convoy of juggernauts”, and for once lost out in their hallmark brinkmanship.
This could rise to further tensions in the region, making it vital that there is “no crowing in Dublin”, one source said.
The DUP, which had been the lynchpin in Theresa May’s government, have seen their powerful position rubbed out kkthis morning in Brussels and some in Northern Ireland are saying they believe that this was Boris Johnson’s calculation all along: get a deal and have a general election whether he gets it through parliament or not.
“This has not gone well for the DUP. This is a huge moment for the DUP, and it is going to create huge tensions on the unionist side. Northern Ireland continues to be collateral damage in Brexit,” said the source.
Some believe that the DUP’s statement this morning was about forcing further concessions from Boris Johnson. But the moment the deal was done the door was closed in their face. That said it may well be that Johnson lavishes the DUP/Northern Ireland with a jacuzzi of cash in the next two days to bring them back on board.
The Northern Ireland secretary, Julian Smith, was in Derry recently to discuss the establishment of a new medical school and there has been repeated talk of money for a motorway from Derry to Belfast. But sources say “this is of no interest to the DUP because that is Sinn Féin territory”.
So if the DUP have been sold a dummy pass, how did that happen? Could Dominic Cummings have come up with a cunning plan to persuade them to drop regulatory alignment in exchange for a veto on the deal, a veto that he knew would never get through? That is a question yet to be answered.
Others point out that the DUP took a huge step agreeing to yield on regulatory alignment with the EU and this was not matched by the EU/Dublin.
They felt that this was not recognised by Dublin and they were “very annoyed” when Leo Varadkar made an off-the-cuff remark in Sweden days later that the British public actually wanted to stay in the EU but it was politically impossible.
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If Parliament reject this deal, will the EU grant an extension?
I think Boris might be proposing this deal knowing parliament could probably reject it and the EU say enough is enough and we leave without a deal.
I think Boris might be proposing this deal knowing parliament could probably reject it and the EU say enough is enough and we leave without a deal.
Pfft you're looking at the glass half empty!
Really. Over 90% of it is the same as the TM deal which he campaigned strongly against.