Im really praying we get a last minute change of heart from mps to drop his bill. Feck it let it go to general election I don't think tories will get this landslide win people think. I don't see that trust has risen in them if anything its gotten worse.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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70% of Leave voters educated to GCSE or below
68% of Remain voters educated to degree level
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted
Wouldn't that then mean a 'no deal ' on the 31st Oct?
Wouldn't it be to late to do anything else and especially if Boris imitates Lord Nelson and puts the telescope to his blind eye, saying "what Extension signal", I see no signal"?
Surely it would be better to get the Bill passed, but with a shed load of Amendments, then the time limit factor acts the other way, cutting off the 31st deadline?
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Wouldn't be mostly due to the age gap, though? Far more younger people now go to university than would have 40-50 years ago.
If Boris's agreement passes , they'll be plenty asking themselves why they didn't pass May's plus 7 months of the transition period wasted
"A little learning can be a dangerous thing"... who said that?
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/10/16/political-trackers-14-15-oct-update
Doesn't look that way I'm afraid. Sure the Tories could blow a poll lead ala Theresa May during the campaign but I think that is unlikely. Labours conduct in this saga will have done a lot of damage - especially to Corbyns credentials as a potential PM. Plus, for all that he is, Boris Johnson is popular.
Timing and circumstance will be key. At the moment BJ is making big capital out of the People v Parliament idea. If his deal gets scuppered or delayed he can go to the country claiming that he did his absolute best but was stopped by 'that lot'. 'Give me the majority and I'll deliver Brexit and all those other money tree promises'. I reckon 340+ seats.
It might change - BJ is more than capable of shooting himself in both feet. But right now he and Cummings seem be ahead of the game.
Surely that can't be. How to you account for the genius that is Tim Martin?
How is that possible? He is a despicable clown with no loyalty to anyone or anything that doesn't enrich or benefit him or at a push, and only if if it doesn't harm him, his mates in the Bullingdon Dining club.
There was a paper published by researchers from the University of Leicester that suggested education level was the predominant factor rather than age, sex, gender, income level or employment. I ain't read the paper though so.... *shrugs*
Incredible but true I'm afraid. He is charming and wins people over regardless of what he has said or done. He is also an optimist, picks himself up after setbacks and has another go. Often futile and misguided but people like that.
Edit* Difficult to pinpoint but in a way his fallibility seems to be his strength. Clearly there would be limits to that. My missus thinks he's great.
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So now where here there will be "admin fees" for businesses and residents ordering things from the mainland UK... What a fecking joke, the vast majority of purchase and trade is done with mainland UK. Yeah this is a great deal for NI.
That sounds great doesn’t it. As if we don’t already get shafted enough by disproportionately high shipping surcharges.
Anyone else seriously considering leaving the UK if a hard right Tory brexit comes in? It’ll be disastrous & move is more towards American style of regulations with less workers rights (hours, holiday leave) Will lead to NHS going eventually (and I work in that sector)
I feel like common sense would be we’ll return one day to the EU but that could be 10-15 years away.
The Tories & hard right seem to have won & the polls are Torys winking the next election which I can’t get my head around...
I feel like common sense would be we’ll return one day to the EU but that could be 10-15 years away.
The Tories & hard right seem to have won & the polls are Torys winking the next election which I can’t get my head around...
People see him as a loveable big-hearted guy who’s trying to enact the will of the people.Incredible but true I'm afraid. He is charming and wins people over regardless of what he has said or done. He is also an optimist, picks himself up after setbacks and has another go. Often futile and misguided but people like that.
Edit* Difficult to pinpoint but in a way his fallibility seems to be his strength. Clearly there would be limits to that. My missus thinks he's great.
They don’t look deep enough to see the callousness and self-serving attitude, never mind the real reasons that hide behind the ‘will of the people’.
Incredible but true I'm afraid. He is charming and wins people over regardless of what he has said or done. He is also an optimist, picks himself up after setbacks and has another go. Often futile and misguided but people like that.
Edit* Difficult to pinpoint but in a way his fallibility seems to be his strength. Clearly there would be limits to that. My missus thinks he's great.
Charming? He comes across as the biggest cnut in the known universe. I want to punch him repeatedly the moment he speaks.
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Is there any reason why Jim Fitzpatrick is voting for the deal and any other Government Brexit motions? I thought the Labour rebels were trying to save their jobs as they had Leave constituencies so what's his excuse?
I would say most of the home nations will suffer, there is a vast amount of trade goes back and forth across the Irish sea.
The notion that the Tories would take us down those roads is being overplayed in my view. They are all nailed-on vote losers. It would be suicide for them. I think the main aim is the principle of setting our own rules and regulations, not gaining the power to degrade them. To imply that the UK is unable to run an employment policy that stands up in a 21st century world without the EU showing it how, or forcing it to do so, is downright disingenuous.
Case in point EU minimum holiday entitlement is 4 weeks in the UK it is 5.6. If the governments intention was to reduce workers rights they could start right there and claim parity with the EU.
Someone call the Dominions, tell them we're bringing the old gang back together. They'll be thrilled no doubt.
Anything the Tories do they still seem to win- it’s so disheartening.
Also US has less holiday leave than us & EU
We shall see. I think it us naive at best to believe an unfettered Tory party will not actively choose to erode worker's rights and stealth privatise the NHS.
What would make them unfettered? A useless opposition? That should be rectified.
#Stopbrexit #Savedemocracy....... Anyone see the problem there?
The only problem I see is your non-sequitur.
What would make them unfettered is the utter dominance of the Tory party and the politics of the right in the dense populations of the South of England. Hence a workable majority and no prospect of the Tories losing power anytime soon. Combine this with no regulation from the EU protecting worker's (and human) rights then the prospect of reduced worker's rights being eroded is highly probable.
The dominance of the politics of the right in the UK, especially Southern England, mean that an opposition which is not "useless" is required to drift pretty far to the right (or the centre in right leaning England) to get elected. This is highly unpalatable to me and to my country in general where our political centre ground would be to the left of England's. This will likely lead to the collapse of the Union and further emotional, political and economic carnage.
The Tories will win the next election. The democracy of this is not the issue but I am weary and tired of existing under Governments that I am ideologically opposed to. The EU offer a level of protection from worst excesses of the Tory party, who continue to drift to the right in general (although I do believe, if he has any actual principles left, that Johnson is, at least socially to the left of the Tory party) and the prospect of being subjected to the whims of venture capitalist, welfare state dismantling Empire nostalgists is terrifying.
How could tories push for election when they don’t have a majority to win a vote?
By a Vote of No Confidence. Which is most likely scenario now.
VONC in themselves?
What if opposition unite to have confidence in them? Yeah that’s stupid, as hard BrExit on 31st would have been avoided.
I’d prefer a 2nd referendum than a GE, but I guess that’s fair enough.
A No 10 source tells the BBC: "If Parliament votes again for delay by voting down the programme motion, and the EU offers delay until 31 January, then we will pull the bill".
"There will be no further business for Parliament and we'll move to an election before Christmas, if necessary by a vote of no confidence, if the Fixed Term Parliaments Act fails.
"We won’t waste further months with this Parliament trying to waste 2020 on referendums on Brexit and Scotland".
"There will be no further business for Parliament and we'll move to an election before Christmas, if necessary by a vote of no confidence, if the Fixed Term Parliaments Act fails.
"We won’t waste further months with this Parliament trying to waste 2020 on referendums on Brexit and Scotland".
I've seen that this is a possibility. Maybe I'm not nuanced enough in political goings on bit how can you call a vote of no confidence in yourself and expect people to vote for you? Or why would you vote a government back into power that has called a vote of no confidence in itself?
They are confident that their vote bank would understand they did so to regain a working majority, to get their agenda through.
But risky as then BrExit party comes into play, potentially splitting their vote.
The only way they can force it is to resign his government but i imagine that won't be necessary as Labour will agree to a GE once the election is secured
It would be pretty crazy if Parliament votes to show confidence in Boris with the single objective of showing no confidence in Boris.
the crazy times in which we live!
The EU isnt going to reject an extension so theres not going to be a no deal.
The prime minister is just flat out lying here on several accounts.
Perhaps Boris doesnt want MPs running their eyes over this properly as he knows its a load of ablls so he prefers to pull it?
Then go for a GE, hope he gets a majority then bring it back and get it through that way?
Then go for a GE, hope he gets a majority then bring it back and get it through that way?
If Britain votes him back into power with a working majority in GE, then we deserve all the shit we’ll end up with over the coming years. All of it.
I’ll be off somewhere else ASAP!
Listening to 5 live earlier and the editor for the Telegraph was on it.
- He said that already this agreement already goes against Boris' claims and bluster about not paying the EU a penny and having more money to pour back into the country.
- There is the initial divorce bill he has already surrendered to and on top of that there is a flexible payment of £10bn per year that we fail to come to a complete agreement and complete the exit process.
- If everything goes smoothly, it's expected to take around 5 years to do this so it could be an additional £50bn when all is said and done.
- He also said this number is a minimum because it's likely to rise as it's the same figure member states will be paying in and due to Brexit this figure is likely to rise and if it does the member states will expect us to match what they are paying and will vote to ensure we do (we will no longer have that vote or our veto rights).
- This figure doesn't appear out of thin air so he will have to go to parliament to debate it and get their approval on this funding.
- They will argue that we should not be handing over this money and will want to lead us head on towards a No Deal Brexit as that will once again be the default position and there will be agreements we will have to honour to avoid it.