Jones at least had the excuse of not being match-fit.
Lindelof was just awful... No excuses.
LC L League Cup Semi-Final 1st Leg
Manchester United 1:3 Manchester City
Post-match discussion
Tue, 07 January 2020
Jones at least had the excuse of not being match-fit.
Lindelof was just awful... No excuses.
The manager is the biggest problem. The players can play much better and flashes of that can be seen in a games like City away. I don't buy that players are crap. Under the right management players like Henderson, Milner and Origi can look like world beaters.
City were lacking a striker yesterday to begin with, the reason why they looked fantastic is because we had 1 CM on the pitch in Fred against a very saturated midfield of theirs, who would have seen it coming eh?
It wasn't their attack that made the difference to being unplayable but their midfield in the first half and the lack of ours.
What I was really shocked by last night was our lack of movement whenever we were winning back the ball.
Static players everywhere, and City rapidly regaining their shape and closing down all options.
Also I’m sure it’s been heavily discussed but Lingard hiding all the first half was a huge problem, it limited passing options massively and caused us to lose possession a few times. Had absolutely no business starting that game and him doing so makes me question Ole’a judgement.
Jones unsurprisingly a disaster but to be expected.
the main positives were Williams who while making a few mistakes played with more guts than anyone all game, and Gomes having an excellent cameo.
Matic also showing there might still be a useful footballer in there somewhere.
Static players everywhere, and City rapidly regaining their shape and closing down all options.
Also I’m sure it’s been heavily discussed but Lingard hiding all the first half was a huge problem, it limited passing options massively and caused us to lose possession a few times. Had absolutely no business starting that game and him doing so makes me question Ole’a judgement.
Jones unsurprisingly a disaster but to be expected.
the main positives were Williams who while making a few mistakes played with more guts than anyone all game, and Gomes having an excellent cameo.
Matic also showing there might still be a useful footballer in there somewhere.
But I'm not disagreeing that Ole isn't good enough. All I'm saying is that City clearly had a better squad than us to pick from, a much better squad. Just because Ole himself isn't good enough doesn't change that. You would simply expect them to win regardless of what he did or did not too which is why yesterday is a bad example of his managerial ability.
The main reason City looked fantastic is because City are fantastic when they play their best football.
No away goals this season in the semis.
Wily old Ole obviously wanted to get knocked out with that line up, so we can concentrate on the league. And it looks like he is going to succeed where Klopp failed against Everton!
Psycho! What a legend.
It is really. And you can't compete without a viable MF. But when are we getting one?
Having said that, the wrong team got picked to start, and OGS comments about worst performance are misleading, there has been a few of them. I feel like he's on a tightrope, always needs a result in the next game. No consistency at all.
I think OGS might be OK for the rebuild, if that is actually happening, and if people will let him do it - posts on here seem to be that they don't want it to happen. They get off on the anti everything agenda and can't wait to post and tell us after every inevitable setback.
You still can't play without a MF though, and I really would like to know when we are getting one.
We have at least arrived at the stage where there is some potential for rapid improvement. I prefer it to the Moyes/LVG approach, at least.
The only positives is that Fred still looked good, we rested Martial and Rashford continues his great goal scoring record this season. Somehow we are still with a slight chance to go through after we could have been down 4-5 nill at half time.
Dreadful performance especially in the first half but expected given the players on the pitch. We have a lot of work to do.
Dreadful performance especially in the first half but expected given the players on the pitch. We have a lot of work to do.
With midfield like this one and Jones behind them what would we expect?There should be at least three midfielders to compensate the lack of physically but Ole decided to start Andreas and Fred.A bit bizarre decision I think , and I don't even want to start about Lingard.
Difficult to know what to make of Williams. I keep seeing him falling over, and he got run ragged last night.
Gets no help at all though does he?
Gets no help at all though does he?
Tuanzebe is injured. Hamstring. Expected back late Jan/early Feb.
Lack of squad depth completely exposed - that starting eleven looked short. Woeful 25 mins after Bernardo goal - entirely unacceptable for a United side at home to lose all composure. Decent reaction in second half however; Fred and Williams both acquitted themselves well and we seemed better with Matic on the field. Santi Gomes didn’t let himself down either. Gutted. Where do we start?
You always have to account for the miserable apathy and incompetence in the executive department when you evaluate the club and its current performance.
Solskjær has been constantly consistent with his words and actions that he is very much willing to suffer short term pain for long term gain. He has let players go that he does not envision part of the club going forward even if he knew he won't get the replacement necessary to fill them. In a way its admirable as he is taking blemishes on his own record to make sure the club is rid of the dead wood that so many fans had long been clamouring.
Even now he is letting players like Young walk while operating with the smallest active squad the club have had in years. He's working on the steadfast belief that no incoming transfers are still better than the wrong players like Sanchez or another Rojo.
I just hope this new recruitment strategy starts bearing promise and there's good recruitment ahead. Otherwise Ed might panic and sell short on this strategy to go back to flying with the wind on transfers and managerial appointments.
Another performance to forget, and a reminder that the job Ole has after years of utterly shambolic transfer dealings is massive.
But lets be real, if we had our best x11 out, City could still absolutely batter us. They are streets ahead of us sadly.
Watching the game was hard and very frustrating, we are so poor on the ball and i feel for some of our players who are busting they're gut, last night notably Fred and Williams. The amount of times Williams won the ball back and looked up to play a pass and had absolutely zero options made my blood boil. It just forces us to go back/sideways - utterly pathetic lazy football that gets us no further up the pitch and gives us very little in terms of attacking the opposition goal.
I'm not just bashing our forwards here, who did struggle to get into the game but our whole team. We didnt seem to do any of the basics right - no showing for the ball, no off the ball running, no composure. That's what annoys me the most. I can accept being beaten by a better team, i'm struggling to accept that in defeat we dont even try to apply the basics.
And why is Jones getting all the flack for our rubbish defence? Lindelof put his worst shift in since joining last night, he was atrocious. We all know Jones has had his best days and he's a bit part player, but Lindelof is part of our preferred CB pairing and should get more stick than Jones.
Positives -
Matic - He shored our midfield up. Played ok, he has to start alongside Fred. He's good on the ball and offers much more than others in that position.
Rashford - Although quiet, got the goal. Good finish.
Negatives -
Periera - cannot be trusted to play so deep. He's had a few games there, it doesn't work.
Lindelof - atrocious display and worrying its from one of our more established players.
Lingard - Is it worth explaining why he's so rubbish? Ghastly performance
I'd also note the teams mentality as a massive concern, but thats been a theme over several seasons and previous managers with the majority of these players - part of what Ole is trying to change, he speaks a lot about the mentality. But we collapsed - stopped trying and threw the game away with inept performance and application.
We have to approach every transfer window with a few of buying and selling. We have to be massively active to overhaul the squad.
But lets be real, if we had our best x11 out, City could still absolutely batter us. They are streets ahead of us sadly.
Watching the game was hard and very frustrating, we are so poor on the ball and i feel for some of our players who are busting they're gut, last night notably Fred and Williams. The amount of times Williams won the ball back and looked up to play a pass and had absolutely zero options made my blood boil. It just forces us to go back/sideways - utterly pathetic lazy football that gets us no further up the pitch and gives us very little in terms of attacking the opposition goal.
I'm not just bashing our forwards here, who did struggle to get into the game but our whole team. We didnt seem to do any of the basics right - no showing for the ball, no off the ball running, no composure. That's what annoys me the most. I can accept being beaten by a better team, i'm struggling to accept that in defeat we dont even try to apply the basics.
And why is Jones getting all the flack for our rubbish defence? Lindelof put his worst shift in since joining last night, he was atrocious. We all know Jones has had his best days and he's a bit part player, but Lindelof is part of our preferred CB pairing and should get more stick than Jones.
Positives -
Matic - He shored our midfield up. Played ok, he has to start alongside Fred. He's good on the ball and offers much more than others in that position.
Rashford - Although quiet, got the goal. Good finish.
Negatives -
Periera - cannot be trusted to play so deep. He's had a few games there, it doesn't work.
Lindelof - atrocious display and worrying its from one of our more established players.
Lingard - Is it worth explaining why he's so rubbish? Ghastly performance
I'd also note the teams mentality as a massive concern, but thats been a theme over several seasons and previous managers with the majority of these players - part of what Ole is trying to change, he speaks a lot about the mentality. But we collapsed - stopped trying and threw the game away with inept performance and application.
We have to approach every transfer window with a few of buying and selling. We have to be massively active to overhaul the squad.
That's what we want to be happening isn't it? I hope you are right.
It doesn't mean that we won't need another Manager later on. But doing that now doesn't feel like it will achieve much.
Exactly because of what you've said there.
Chalk another game up where we as a collective on the pitch, all looked around hoping somebody else would do it. We're not going anywhere until we act like we have a job to do to fix this mess.
I honestly naively thought MF reinforcements would be arriving on Jan 1st. I really did.
OK, tbf. I thought it would be a good idea, anyway.
OK, tbf. I thought it would be a good idea, anyway.
So, Pep basically said before the game that we're excellent at Counter-Attacking, so obviously spent time with his team devising a way so that they don't get caught out again.
Our response was... to still go for the counter... and when that wasn't working.... ?????
Our response was... to still go for the counter... and when that wasn't working.... ?????
Think we are all aware that the players aren't very good.
Before we conceded we played well, especially considering the squad we had. Imagine adding Pogba, Maguire, MCT and Martial to the team. Batter is completely exaggerating
Sign Ben Stokes.
Don't think they know how to press. They think it is just individual running towards somebody, that works sometimes. Pressing is a team effort and is coordinated now just done randomly.
If he agrees to it, then yes.
I thought we would have at least bid for someone!
Exactly mate, hence why against Arsenal and City they always had a man spare and took us apart in midfield. Sad really as pressing intelligently should be the least of our problems.
Hilarious: Ole noticed our heads dropped when their first goal went in. That's been happening for months. has he really only just seen it? and from what I gather his half-time talk was about "pride". what a load of old bollocks: the tactics were wrong and he had no idea how to cope with the way Pep had set up his team. As for the players... don't make me laugh. Almost no one deserves anything above a "one", and I thought DDG's "effort" for the second goal (yes others made mistakes ahead of him) summed him up of late.
But we've all said this before and clearly the club no longer care. I said this a year ago and got all sort of abuse but if we aren't careful, the club will die: when was the last time we couldn't sell out OT for a derby match? Awful and boring. Headless chickens hoofing the ball around and chasing after it.
The funniest thing of all, however, was a City player's interview (can't remember who, possibly Bernado) said they were playing against one of the top teams in Europe...
But we've all said this before and clearly the club no longer care. I said this a year ago and got all sort of abuse but if we aren't careful, the club will die: when was the last time we couldn't sell out OT for a derby match? Awful and boring. Headless chickens hoofing the ball around and chasing after it.
The funniest thing of all, however, was a City player's interview (can't remember who, possibly Bernado) said they were playing against one of the top teams in Europe...
when that doesn't work, we go to Plan B.... which unfortunately is the same as Plan A and Plan C
I'm not sure why you were shocked... there has been a lack of movement up front all season and that's why I don't think Martial or Rashford are good enough for United. We need to find an experienced top-class striker (a Vardy/Kane like person) and ply him alongside Greenwood who at least looks like a natural goal scorer
Think the bigger teams have unraveled the only way we play. Think we'll struggle against better sides from now on.
A very rational analysis of the situation.
As we already struggle against the poor sides, that is a frightening thought.
As we already struggle against the poor sides, that is a frightening thought.
I'm convinced this 2nd half of the season is going to be hell for us. Fatigue, injuries and teams reading our only style of play will.
If they sack Ole at the end of the season, that will be fair enough. Except you know Rio and the like will come out and say it wasn't fair at all. They care more about their mate than the club and it's fate.
That is very much where I am with the club generally and Ole specifically. I'm done whining about the Glazers and Woodward day-to-day as nothing will change for the foreseeable there, and I by no means think a better manager couldn't get more from this team. But I'm willing for Ole to use his capital with the club to swallow shit days like yesterday on a path to Ground Zero and back on an upward trajectory.
Well they don't decide shit at the club same way us fans don't. Results will. If we go backwards from now to the end of the season Ole will be gone. Really hope we start seeing progress but I'm sceptical.
Just showed how far behind we are. Selling players and not replacing them is a sure sign we are on the way down. Yes, I predicted a 3-1 to City, and there will be many more losses before this so called rebuild is completed.
Unfortunately, we cannot ‘out football’ them, so the moment they decided to set up to stop our counter attacks and particularly when they scored the first goal, the game was up. It became a test of ‘who’s the best football team’ rather than ‘can the inferior team mug the superior team’ and of course, with that as the background we had little chance.
The problem for several years has been the midfield, you could say arguably since Roy Keane left is when the demise started, with no effective midfield, forwards are not getting the service and the defence is under extra pressure. Of course coaching and management is a big part of the whole team performance. Klopp has managed to make average players into good players, and I believe now that Liverpool are way ahead of City. Another recent example is Watford, absolutely awful, sack two managers, and then Nigel Pearson comes along and with same bunch of players has got them buzzing again. United don’t have lots of bad players, yes some are not up to the required standard, but the right manager could get more out of them.
First half was embarrassing, ripped apart defensively and offered nothing going forward.
Better second half performance when we decided to play with 11 players.
Played our two worst centre backs and a cone - have AC Milan decided to buy our cone?
Better second half performance when we decided to play with 11 players.
Played our two worst centre backs and a cone - have AC Milan decided to buy our cone?
Man of the Match
Runners-up
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27%
Brandon Williams
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13%
Marcus Rashford
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10%
Nemanja Matic
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4%
David de Gea
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3%
Mason Greenwood
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2%
Angel Gomes
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1%
Phil Jones
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1%
Aaron Wan-Bissaka
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 262 ratings.
Score Predictions
67,136,54
- Man Utd win
- Man City win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 16% Man Utd 1:2 Man City
- 16% Man Utd 2:1 Man City
- 16% Man Utd 1:1 Man City
- 14% Man Utd 0:2 Man City
- 9% Man Utd 1:3 Man City
- 6% Man Utd 0:3 Man City
- 4% Man Utd 1:0 Man City
- 3% Man Utd 2:2 Man City
- 2% Man Utd 0:4 Man City
- 2% Man Utd 2:0 Man City
- 2% Man Utd 0:0 Man City
- 2% Man Utd 0:1 Man City
- 1% Man Utd 5:0 Man City
- 1% Man Utd 0:5 Man City
- 1% Man Utd 3:2 Man City
- 1% Man Utd 2:3 Man City
- 1% Man Utd 1:4 Man City
- 1% Man Utd 4:2 Man City
- 1% Man Utd 3:1 Man City
- 0% Man Utd 3:3 Man City
- 0% Man Utd 4:0 Man City
- 0% Man Utd 4:1 Man City
- 0% Man Utd 2:4 Man City
- 0% Man Utd 3:0 Man City
- 0% Man Utd 1:5 Man City
Match Stats
- Man Utd
- Man City
- Possession
- 43% 57%
- Shots
- 8 15
- Shots on Target
- 3 5
- Corners
- 4 3
- Fouls
- 6 16
Referee
Mike Dean
Man Utd Lineup
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-
-
-
-
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replaced by Nemanja Matic
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-
-
-
replaced by Anthony Martial
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replaced by Angel Gomes
